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[bigkrev]

W- Gain 2 Life
U- Scry 1
B- Target player looses 1 life
R- Target creature can't block this turn
G- Put a 0/1 Plant token into play

 

[WanderingWind]

W- Gain 2 Life
U- Scry 1
B- Target player looses 1 life
R- Target creature can't block this turn
G- Put a 0/1 Plant token into play

I want that green one very badly in standard with Evolutionary Leap.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I want that green one very badly in standard with Evolutionary Leap.

I wouldn't be surprised if you get it.

 

[bigkrev]

I wouldn't be surprised if you get it.

Yeah, I based my list on the Zen/WWK common lands, changing Halimar Depths to Scry 1 to make it less feel-bad.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, I based my list on the Zen/WWK common lands, changing Halimar Depths to Scry 1 to make it less feel-bad.

If they really did bring those WWK common-lands back, I think he's right that it would be pretty damn good with Evolutionary Leap. I got a playset of that card because I could totally see that card seeing play once we hit rotation.

 

[bigkrev]

Also, with there being a good chance of Manlands being in this block, how printable would this land be

Land
Tap: Add 1 Colorless
Tap, Sacrifice: Destroy target nonbasic land. Use this ability only if the controller of the target activated a non-mana ability on the land.

 

[duxstar]

So knowing that half the people at my FNM are going to play that mill deck, what's the best sideboard plan? Spirit of the labyrinth? Aegis of the gods, cranial archive?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't know that its power-wise unprintable, but I think its a little confusing. Then again, I figured Erebos's Titan was a weirdo design too and they printed that.

 

[Firemind]

So knowing that half the people at my FNM are going to play that mill deck, what's the best sideboard plan? Spirit of the labyrinth? Aegis of the gods, cranial archive?

Win before your deck gets emptied.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Win before your deck gets emptied.

This, its not a great deck, its just one that can beat you if you don't know what its doing and what you're supposed to do with your post-board games.

 

[WanderingWind]

So knowing that half the people at my FNM are going to play that mill deck, what's the best sideboard plan? Spirit of the labyrinth? Aegis of the gods, cranial archive?

Day's Undoing, thy time hast come.

 

[SigmasonicX]

BTW, has that card actually been doing anything in Modern? Or do we just not have enough data yet?

 

[OnPoint]

W- Gain 2 Life
U- Scry 1
B- Target player looses 1 life
R- Target creature can't block this turn
G- Put a 0/1 Plant token into play

I originally went with the Falter effect but wanted to make sure it would affect the board if it came into play, regardless of creatures being on the field or not. It did feel like a natural fit until I considered that.

Honestly wish they could be powerful. Never gonna happen but...

W - Exile target non-land permanent you control. Return it to the battlefield at the next end step
U - Scry 2, Draw 1
B - Put a 2/2 black zombie onto the battlefield tapped
R - Deal 2 damage to target creature
G - Put target non-creature permanent in your graveyard on top of your library

Never gonna happen lol

 

[kirblar]

BTW, has that card actually been doing anything in Modern? Or do we just not have enough data yet?

Per Majlton, it's viable in Affinity, but he's not sure if it's the best build.

Also, Halimar Depths is fine as is.

 

[WanderingWind]

BTW, has that card actually been doing anything in Modern? Or do we just not have enough data yet?

I mean, it's too soon to tell but it's a classic trap mythic. I still bought a playset for 4 bucks, just in case, but I don't have any high hopes.

On another note, I'm missing a Stoneforge Mystic. Which one of you jokers has it? GB, lookin' at you bud.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Speaking of rotating, some impactful-yet-relatively-neutral cards without real equivalents potentially leaving the format:

Lands:

• Radiant Fountain
• Urborg
• Nykthos
• Mana Confluence

Removal:

• Drown in Sorrow
• Anger of the Gods
• Banishing Light
• Hero's Downfall
• Dissolve
• Thoughtseize
• Reclamation Sage
• Perilous Vault

Support:

• Satyr Wayfinder
• Sylvan Caryatid
• Elvish Mystic
• Courser of Kruphix

Should be interesting to see what kinds of cards people scramble over in BFZ, I'm excited to see all the new decks.

Yeah, I based my list on the Zen/WWK common lands, changing Halimar Depths to Scry 1 to make it less feel-bad.

Would a colorless-adding Halimar Depths that let you scry 2 instead of spin Top be too strong for something they could add to any set like Evolving Wilds now that scry is evergreen?

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";174909993]Speaking of rotating, some impactful-yet-relatively-neutral cards without real equivalents potentially leaving the format:

Lands:

• Radiant Fountain
• Urborg
• Nykthos
• Mana Confluence

Removal:

• Drown in Sorrow
• Anger of the Gods
• Banishing Light
• Hero's Downfall
• Dissolve
• Thoughtseize
• Reclamation Sage
• Perilous Vault

Support:

• Satyr Wayfinder
• Sylvan Caryatid
• Elvish Mystic
• Courser of Kruphix

Should be interesting to see what kinds of cards people scramble over in BFZ, I'm excited to see all the new decks.




Would a colorless-adding Halimar Depths that let you scry 2 instead of spin Top be too strong for something they could add to any set like Evolving Wilds now that scry is evergreen?[/QUOTE]A lot of these cards are the kind of cards that see similar cards printed as replacement, e.g. Drown/Anger.

Reclamation Sage you could just play Conclave Naturalists since its an actual threatening creature so it might be worth more mana. Or you could play Caustic Caterpillar (snicker).

Banishing Light and Elvish Mystic I think are candidates for reprint, as-is Dissolve, although I think the format would be interesting without it.

Courser? Probably just play Nissa.

 

["God's Beard!"]

See the Unwritten and Explosive Vegetation/Nissa's Pilgrimage are probably the two cards I'm keeping in mind coming into BFZ as low-hanging-fruit-type cards for Zendikar synergies.

A lot of these cards are the kind of cards that see similar cards printed as replacement, e.g. Drown/Anger.

It's true, which is why I put potentially. It's going to be interesting to see which effects we get back and which we don't. I'm excited to see what shifts with the new rotation. We had Devotion and Control dominate for a season, then a season with Green-based midrange forming the center of a whirlwind of archetypes. Hopefully they can repeat the success of this standard while mixing up the types of powerful decks.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Vryn Wingmare into Archangel of Tithes is some obnoxious taxing shit

 

["God's Beard!"]

Vryn Wingmare into Archangel of Tithes is some obnoxious taxing shit

This is literally the only thing Duxstar ever does

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";174913728]This is literally the only thing Duxstar ever does[/QUOTE]

Standard is really boring right now so I'm just playing dumb brews all day, like Mono-White Taxes.

But hey, I got a snap-concede when I attacked with Archangel, Wingmare and Kytheon (he had no mana to block), then when Gideon transformed, used the +1 to untap the Archangel, then played a second Archangel.

 

[Jhriad]

Banishing Light and Elvish Mystic I think are candidates for reprint, as-is Dissolve, although I think the format would be interesting without it.

This sounds unlikely. Think there was a more recent post about it by someone but that's the one I found via a lazy Google.

 

[SigmasonicX]

This sounds unlikely. Think there was a more recent post about it by someone but that's the one I found via a lazy Google.

I believe another post clarified that they don't want multiple straight-forward one-mana dorks in Standard anymore. That is to say, we won't have Avacyn's Pilgrim in the same Standard as Elvish Mystic.

 

[kirblar]

I believe another post clarified that they don't want multiple straight-forward one-mana dorks in Standard anymore. That is to say, we won't have Avacyn's Pilgrim in the same Standard as Elvish Mystic.

That was the previous position. They've evolved to not liking them whatsoever.

 

[Firemind]

And they can't print efficient mana rocks because of stupid ugin. What a party pooper.

 

[Jhriad]

And they can't print efficient mana rocks because of stupid ugin. What a party pooper.

Which reminds me, can everyone promise not to use Ugin whatsoever until rotation so I can pick some up at a more reasonable price? Thanks!

 

[Angry Grimace]

That was the previous position. They've evolved to not liking them whatsoever.

I don't buy it.

Mystic in BFZ, bookmark it.

Which reminds me, can everyone promise not to use Ugin whatsoever until rotation so I can pick some up at a more reasonable price? Thanks!

I remember when people were insistent that Ugin wasn't good enough for Tron because 8 instead of 7 (for Karn Liberated). Except Ugin has a profound impact on practically every board state in Modern, so yeah, he's worth paying 8 instead of 7. He's never going to be cheap. I would be shocked if he went under $20 in Standard and up from there.

 

[Jhriad]

I remember when people were insistent that Ugin wasn't good enough for Tron because 8 instead of 7 (for Karn Liberated). Except Ugin has a profound impact on practically every board state in Modern, so yeah, he's worth paying 8 instead of 7. He's never going to be cheap. I would be shocked if he went under $20 in Standard and up from there.

Yeah, I'm really just hoping to see it drop to around $20 before I buy in.

 

[OnPoint]

Which reminds me, can everyone promise not to use Ugin whatsoever until rotation so I can pick some up at a more reasonable price? Thanks!

I'm in the same boat. Your idea of hitting 20 and buying in is where I'm about with him too. I just think the card is awesome.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, I'm really just hoping to see it drop to around $20 before I buy in.

He's just generically good at blowing up everyone's entire board. If anything, I think he'll get more expensive since FRF is gone from limited now.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Would a land like this be too strong?

Library of the Ancients
t, pay one life: add (1) to your mana pool
t: scry 1

or

Library of the Ancients
XXXX enters the battlefield tapped.
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t: scry 1

or maybe

Library of the Ancients
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t, Sacrifice XXXX: scry 3

I'd like a version without the mana ability but that's probably too confusing for modern card design. It seems like no matter how I make it it favors either control or aggro too heavily.

 

[bigkrev]

Standing by my statement that it will be Arbor Elf, which is a weaker card without shocks, but still playable

 

[blindrocket]

Then there's the EDH players that will always want him.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";174929955]Would a land like this be too strong?

Library of the Ancients
t, pay one life: add (1) to your mana pool
t: scry 1

or

Library of the Ancients
XXXX enters the battlefield tapped.
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t: scry 1

or maybe

Library of the Ancients
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t, Sacrifice XXXX: scry 3

I'd like a version without the mana ability but that's probably too confusing for modern card design. It seems like no matter how I make it it favors either control or aggro too heavily.[/QUOTE]

1) OP
2) OP
3) OP

Scry is better than people believe it is, and an on-demand, color-free scrying land that basically costs nothing is pretty OP.

Library of the Ancients
T: Add (1) to your mana pool.
1UR, T: Scry 1.

Yes, that's basically Desolate Lighthouse, but the effect is better than it sounds. I suppose you could make the scry marginally cheaper since looting is better than a scry, but still, getting a scry every turn for 2 mana sounds very good for a lot of decks.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So you just reprinted Desolate Lighthouse. (EDIT, should have clicked "submit" a while ago instead of letting the post sit while I answered the phone )

 

[Angry Grimace]

So you just reprinted Desolate Lighthouse. (EDIT, should have clicked "submit" a while ago instead of letting the post sit while I answered the phone )

Desolate Lighthouse would be pretty dumb with Jace and Delve around.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I really like the idea of doing a Library callback though. I'm not serious about half of these.

Library of Pain
{T}, Pay 1 life: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}, Pay 1 life: Scry 1.

Library of Sleep
{T}: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}: Scry 1. ~ doesn't untap during your next untap step.

Deathrite Library
{T}: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}, Exile a land card from your graveyard: Scry 1.

Open-Source Library
{T}: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}, Reveal your hand: Scry 1.

Howling Library
{T}: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}: Each player may Scry 1.

Library of Retribution
{T}, Pay 1 life: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}: Scry X, where X is the amount of life you lost this turn.

Deep Storage Library
{T}: Add (1) to your mana pool.
(1), {T}: Put a page counter on ~.
{T}, Remove all page counters from ~: Scry X, where X is the number of page counters removed this way.

And while I'm making ridiculous cards:

Sensei's Library
{T}: Add (1) to your mana pool.
{T}: Draw a card, then put ~ on top of its owner's library.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Scry is better than people believe it is, and an on-demand, color-free scrying land that basically costs nothing is pretty OP.

I feel like Horizon Canopy-style is a reasonable compromise.

Library of the Ancients
t: add (1) to your mana pool
(1), t, Sacrifice XXXX: scry 2


lol

Library of the Ancients
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t: Scry 2. Activate this ability only if you have exactly 7 cards in hand.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Hot Take of the Day: Catacomb Slug should have Deathtouch and Trample.

 

[The Technomancer]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";174929955]Would a land like this be too strong?

Library of the Ancients
t, pay one life: add (1) to your mana pool
t: scry 1

or

Library of the Ancients
XXXX enters the battlefield tapped.
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t: scry 1

or maybe

Library of the Ancients
t: add (1) to your mana pool
t, Sacrifice XXXX: scry 3

I'd like a version without the mana ability but that's probably too confusing for modern card design. It seems like no matter how I make it it favors either control or aggro too heavily.[/QUOTE]
Do you like Sensei's Divining Top?

 

[red13th]

Will Hangarback Walker's price drop? I kind of want a copy but I don't want to pay almost $20.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Add "attempting to equip an Ensoul Artifact'd Ghostfire Blade with itself" to the list of weird shit I've seen people attempt in MODO

 

[Firemind]

Goddamn it. I drafted Origins like six times now and there were literally no archetypes available in any of them. All I kept handed was an assortment of creatures and hope I curve out and/or have an answer to an opponent's creature that's bigger than mine. That's it. Thopters might as well be comparable to hitting the lottery. Renown, ha! Good luck! What else you have? Elves, almost impossible to have a playable deck with the amount of elves that do nothing. U/W fliers, blue sucks in this format unless you, surprise, have Whirler Rogues. B/x sacrifice, kind of dependent on Shadows of the Past and removal to not get overrun by 4/4 and 6/6 tramplers. R/x, unfortunately this isn't M15 where you could draft mono red. Red in Origins isn't nearly as deep. U/B might actually be the worst colour combination. All you do is wait until you die. Blue has zero ways to draw multiple cards. Artificer's Epiphany is so much worse than Divination it's not even funny. No Opportunities here. Blue's rares are also woeful. Like, I think there are only two playable blue rares. Did I mention how much islands suck in Origins?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Goddamn it. I drafted Origins like six times now and there were literally no archetypes available in any of them. All I kept handed was an assortment of creatures and hope I curve out and/or have an answer to an opponent's creature that's bigger than mine. That's it. Thopters might as well be comparable to hitting the lottery. Renown, ha! Good luck! What else you have? Elves, almost impossible to have a playable deck with the amount of elves that do nothing. U/W fliers, blue sucks in this format unless you, surprise, have Whirler Rogues. B/x sacrifice, kind of dependent on Shadows of the Past and removal to not get overrun by 4/4 and 6/6 tramplers. R/x, unfortunately this isn't M15 where you could draft mono red. Red in Origins isn't nearly as deep. U/B might actually be the worst colour combination. All you do is wait until you die. Blue has zero ways to draw multiple cards. Artificer's Epiphany is so much worse than Divination it's not even funny. No Opportunities here. Blue's rares are also woeful. Like, I think there are only two playable blue rares. Did I mention how much islands suck in Origins?

Origins draft is a waste of time.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Do you like Sensei's Divining Top?

I own a playset of tops across multiple languages and I have an altered one for commander

Goddamn it. I drafted Origins like six times now and there were literally no archetypes available in any of them. All I kept handed was an assortment of creatures and hope I curve out and/or have an answer to an opponent's creature that's bigger than mine. That's it. Thopters might as well be comparable to hitting the lottery. Renown, ha! Good luck! What else you have? Elves, almost impossible to have a playable deck with the amount of elves that do nothing. U/W fliers, blue sucks in this format unless you, surprise, have Whirler Rogues. B/x sacrifice, kind of dependent on Shadows of the Past and removal to not get overrun by 4/4 and 6/6 tramplers. R/x, unfortunately this isn't M15 where you could draft mono red. Red in Origins isn't nearly as deep. U/B might actually be the worst colour combination. All you do is wait until you die. Blue has zero ways to draw multiple cards. Artificer's Epiphany is so much worse than Divination it's not even funny. No Opportunities here. Blue's rares are also woeful. Like, I think there are only two playable blue rares. Did I mention how much islands suck in Origins?

git gud

 

[Firemind]

So much for the last core set. You shall not be missed.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Three times I've drafted B/W with as many Nantuko Husk, Fetid Imp, Shambling Ghoul, Reave Soul, Unholy Hunger, Cruel Revival, Supression Bonds, Enshrouding Mist, and Swift Reckoning as I can get, and I haven't lost yet.

And I will Pick 1 windmill-slam a Sentinel of the Eternal Watch every time.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Goddamn it. I drafted Origins like six times now and there were literally no archetypes available in any of them. All I kept handed was an assortment of creatures and hope I curve out and/or have an answer to an opponent's creature that's bigger than mine. That's it.

Sounds like a draft deck to me. This isn't innistrad, It's a core set. The archetype synergies aren't really that heavy. Most decks are just the good stuff in their colors.

Thopters might as well be comparable to hitting the lottery. Renown, ha! Good luck!

To be fair, the thopter and renown cards are basically the best commons in those colors so they don't really become synergy decks. If you have a thopter deck you're just winning.

Elves, almost impossible to have a playable deck with the amount of elves that do nothing.

I'm assuming this is just salt because the elves are all solid. Green in general isn't too hot though.

U/W fliers, blue sucks in this format unless you, surprise, have Whirler Rogues.

U/W fliers is one of the strongest archetypes...

B/x sacrifice, kind of dependent on Shadows of the Past and removal to not get overrun by 4/4 and 6/6 tramplers. R/x,

...wat
BR sacrifice is great.

Gunfortunately this isn't M15 where you could draft mono red. Red in Origins isn't nearly as deep.

The only paper draft I've ever done for ORI I drafted mono-red. I lost to turn-three managorger both games in the finals though lol

U/B might actually be the worst colour combination. All you do is wait until you die. Blue has zero ways to draw multiple cards. Artificer's Epiphany is so much worse than Divination it's not even funny. No Opportunities here. Blue's rares are also woeful. Like, I think there are only two playable blue rares. Did I mention how much islands suck in Origins?

I feel like you're stuck in old ideas for blue. UB is weird, but not terrible. I'll agree that they're the colors with the worst rares, but that doesn't really matter. Blue has insane finishers and Claustrophobia is one of the better removal spells in the set. Also, Screeching Skab is woefully underdrafted which makes UB dredge one of the most consistent draft archetypes.

 

[Firemind]

UB Dredge huh. What are you trying to accomplish by filling your graveyard? Enabling your Deep-Sea Terrors? At least white has Auramancers.

If blue only one-for-ones you, it's going to eventually lose by flooding. Card draw mitigates that. And what insane blue finishers? Are we even talking about the same set?

 

["God's Beard!"]

UB Dredge huh. What are you trying to accomplish by filling your graveyard? Enabling your Deep-Sea Terrors? At least white has Auramancers.

If blue only one-for-ones you, it's going to eventually lose by flooding. Card draw mitigates that. And what insane blue finishers? Are we even talking about the same set?

You're gonna complain about Rhox Maulers then turn around and say Deep-Sea Terror isn't good enough? I mean, Skaab Goliath eats Skysnare Spider for breakfast, and that's green's biggest uncommon. These are bizarrely huge creatures for blue.

A 2/1 for 2 with upside at common in blue is great. And since you're considering color pairs to be archetypes, Posessed Skaab is a great card to enable. Not to mention getting spell mastery more often than other colors or getting the card back on Cruel Revival.