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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

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A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Woodland Bellower into Savage Knuckleblade is good. Very good.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
OnPoint said:
So fucking sick of hearing about the reserved list and how it holds older formats back. Not because you're talking about it, but because I hate that thing so much.

I wish they'd just reboot the whole fucking game sometimes. Fix/streamline any of the rules problems they have, figure out if Rosewater's "making spells a super type and giving them Flash to remove the need for Instants" works, and just go with it.
Click to expand...
I thought it was the opposite. So Vendilion Clique would become:
Legendary Instant Creature - Faerie Wizard

And Nameless Inversion would be:
Tribal Instant Sorcery - Shapeshifter
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";175080573]I thought it was the opposite. So Vendilion Clique would become:
Legendary Instant Creature - Faerie Wizard

And Nameless Inversion would be:
Tribal Instant Sorcery - Shapeshifter[/QUOTE]

Well, as a further correction, "tribal" probably wouldn't be necessary if things were starting over.

Instant Sorcery - Shapeshifter
 
O

OnPoint

Member
It made sense in the article haha I don't recall the specifics. It'll never happen -- it could disenfranchise too many people, but the game might be better for it.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
It makes too many cards not do what they say they do. "Target Instant or Sorcery gains Flashback." "Activate this ability only when you could cast a Sorcery." It's literally impossible to go back and do it at this point.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
If it makes you feel better, Rise of the Eldrazi is coming back for flashbacks on MTGO. Again.
Click to expand...

They should just make this permanently available, it might be the only thing that would get me to actually boot up MTGO on the reg.

Matriox said:
If only WOTC actually liked making money, maybe they'd put out something that even tried to compete.
Click to expand...

C'mon. Yes, WotC's digital operation is pathetic, but if wanting to make money was all it took to compete with Blizzard....

Yeef said:
Heathstone, like a lot of TCG's and LCG's, feels too much like a paired down version of Magic for me to enjoy it. Games like Netrunner that go in a very different direction mechanically tend to be more interesting.
Click to expand...

Another Richard Garfield game!

Angry Grimace said:
The problem with Hearthstone and other games is that they try to avoid resource variance, which ends up making the game less interesting.
Click to expand...

I already was pretty sure that the variable mana system was better beforehand, but Hearthstone definitely cemented it for me.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I like how fans labor under the delusion that WOTC doesn't know how to make money or that they have any insight into how much money WOTC makes at either MODO or paper
 
B

blindrocket

Member
WanderingWind said:
Complaining about money in a free version of the game? That's a new one!
Click to expand...

Check your PMs please :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are any of you members of any Magic Facebook groups? I joined a Modern group, a Legacy group, an EDH group as well as a couple of groups devoted to specific decks. It's a pretty cool resource I think. I'm always in for some discussion on good cards/decks/interactions (that aren't standard/draft/sealed).
 
M

Matriox

Member
I'm aware mtgo makes up a great paycheck for them, but youre telling me they wouldn't be making massively more money if they made the game tablet friendly? Or even tried to make duels cross platform so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time and money since I don't have an iPhone or iPad that is new enough? All I'm asking for is a little bit of effort is all. I wasn't saying they can compete with hearthstone, but at this point they aren't even trying to make the game appealing over hearthstone which is an issue. It's clunky and buggy comparatively, which magic is a complex game sure, but don't tell me you think they'd make less money if they put some effort into it.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Matriox said:
I'm aware mtgo makes up a great paycheck for them, but youre telling me they wouldn't be making massively more money if they made the game tablet friendly? Or even tried to make duels cross platform so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time and money since I don't have an iPhone or iPad that is new enough? All I'm asking for is a little bit of effort is all. I wasn't saying they can compete with hearthstone, but at this point they aren't even trying to make the game appealing over hearthstone which is an issue. It's clunky and buggy comparatively, which magic is a complex game sure, but don't tell me you think they'd make less money if they put some effort into it.
Click to expand...

I'm telling you that nobody complaining about it actually knows what the spend or what they make
 
M

Matriox

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I'm telling you that nobody complaining about it actually knows what the spend or what they make
Click to expand...

I find it really hard to believe you think they'd make less if the game was more accessible and didn't look like it was made for Windows Millinium edition. Unless that's literally all you're saying, which doesn't really disprove nor prove that the decision is a bad idea in the first place. Mindshare goes a long way, and when you ask if someone wants to play a Tcg chances are they've at least heard of hearthstone which is due to the effort and accessibility blizzard put in. I'd like to see some of that placed towards WotC, which is all I'm saying. "If you build it, they will come" and all that jazz.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
I like how fans labor under the delusion that WOTC doesn't know how to make money or that they have any insight into how much money WOTC makes at either MODO or paper
Click to expand...

It's not like we have zero information! For example, based on Hasbro's numbers, Hearthstone is now bigger in pure revenue than paper and online Magic combined. :p
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Matriox said:
I find it really hard to believe you think they'd make less if the game was more accessible and didn't look like it was made for Windows Millinium edition. Unless that's literally all you're saying, which doesn't really disprove nor prove that the decision is a bad idea in the first place. Mindshare goes a long way, and when you ask if someone wants to play a Tcg chances are they've at least heard of hearthstone which is due to the effort and accessibility blizzard put in. I'd like to see some of that placed towards WotC, which is all I'm saying. "If you build it, they will come" and all that jazz.
Click to expand...
Sure, and more people have heard of Game of War than either because they have Kate Upton in a chain mail bikini doing ads during the Super Bowl. But that's neither here nor there.

Couching complaints about MTGO as some kind of economic argument about how WOTC would make more money if they did all these things we would is just kind of absurd. Magic is a more niche game than Hearthstone for a million reasons. There's plenty of reasons to believe they would in fact make less money if they did all these things people ask for. The only reasonable comparison to Heartstone is that they nominally are both card games.
 
M

Matriox

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Sure, and more people have heard of Game of War than either because they have Kate Upton in a chain mail bikini doing ads during the Super Bowl. But that's neither here nor there.

Couching complaints about MTGO as some kind of economic argument about how WOTC would make more money if they did all these things we would is just kind of absurd. Magic is a more niche game than Hearthstone for a million reasons. There's plenty of reasons to believe they would in fact make less money if they did all these things people ask for. The only reasonable comparison to Heartstone is that they nominally are both card games.
Click to expand...

Effort is not the same thing as advertising. Mindshare isn't specific to advertising either, even within the magic community you find folks (much like myself) that tried mtgo and didn't like it for a number of reasons. As far as the latter paragraph is concerned, all I'm hearing is I'm not allowed to complain about the way the game is being handled digitally because my opinion doesn't matter and they still make money from milking people who are addicted to competitive magic. I'm not even complaining about the prices of mtgo, it's not perfect but I'd feel a lot better about throwing money down if I didn't have the constant fear of disconnection, bugs, and the overall aesthetics being pretty bad.

Yes, both are card games. One put the effort into making it a pleasant experience and the other is just trying to skate by with the minimum amount of money and effort spent.

Edit: there's also a massive conversation about this on reddit lol, so I'll just leave it at that. It isn't cut and dry "modo needs to compete with hearthstone and they'll make all of the money", but I'd just like to see some improvements to aspects for it to be worth my money.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
Couching complaints about MTGO as some kind of economic argument about how WOTC would make more money if they did all these things we would is just kind of absurd. Magic is a more niche game than Hearthstone for a million reasons. There's plenty of reasons to believe they would in fact make less money if they did all these things people ask for.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was mostly on your side here to start but you went off to a crazy place. MTGO and Hearthstone aren't directly one-to-one substitutionary for one another, but they fill very similar roles in people's entertainment lives. WotC very likely missed an opportunity to make much more money on digital Magic by tapping a similar need to Hearthstone, and unquestionably lose a ton of money just by virtue of MTGO being a terrible product for the exact paper-game-playing, non-Hearthstone audience it's specifically designed for.
 
A

Alien Manobo

Member
I'm still trying out Hangarback in Jund when I get faced with a tough deck .

He was playing Junk and we were tied 1-1. We had a grindy game 3 with removal after removal and we were down to top-deck wars, until I got him in a soft Loam lock with Ghost Quarters from 7-8 lands he was down to two lands.

After a few turns I had a Lily and Chandra in play, he was able to Decay my Lily at my end step and on his turn top decked a Goyf (still with two lands).

Back on my turn I terminated his Goyf, when out of nowhere:

vpowq7L.png


Gotta love MTG
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Had quite a bit of fun in Origins draft last night, mostly because I got passed a fuckton of elves including two of the BG life loss guy, Visionaries, four copies of Llanowar Empath, just some general nuttiness

My brother put together a nice UB control deck but got his shit wrecked round 2 by Hangarback Walker both games. Now there's a limited bomb

I dunno, it could get stale but first time out I like the format
 
N

Neoweee

Member
Alien Manobo said:
Are elves a viable archetype in origins draft? Did you win the event?
Click to expand...

All ten of the "main" archetypes are viable in Origins Draft. Elves slightly depends on people not taking the solid elves for their regular Black or Green decks (Deadbridge and Gilder, namely). But there's enough synergies to do well, and Shaman of the Pack is a beast.

There's also a bunch of alternate/sub archetypes. Black/Green can go regular midrange quite easily.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Alien Manobo said:
Are elves a viable archetype in origins draft? Did you win the event?
Click to expand...

I went 2-1, mostly due to a mulligan down to 6 on a game round 2 and still only getting 2 lands for the entire game. The others were really close and very good though

I would say that for it to be viable you probably need at least one of the GB life loss guy and two Empaths. If you can get those three pieces then taking other elves flesh the deck out pretty well.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
charlequin said:
Yeah I was mostly on your side here to start but you went off to a crazy place. MTGO and Hearthstone aren't directly one-to-one substitutionary for one another, but they fill very similar roles in people's entertainment lives. WotC very likely missed an opportunity to make much more money on digital Magic by tapping a similar need to Hearthstone, and unquestionably lose a ton of money just by virtue of MTGO being a terrible product for the exact paper-game-playing, non-Hearthstone audience it's specifically designed for.
Click to expand...
Again, that's all speculative because its a problem with scale. You can't magically (no pun intended) make MTGO a Hearthstone-level product because MTG's player base is completely dwarfed by the sheer number of people who straight-up like Blizzard's products (around 2007-2008, the active number of DCI players was something like 150,000 - around this World of Warcraft had something like 11,000,000 active subscribers). That doesn't even get into the fact that Hearthstone and MTGO don't necessarily target similar audiences based on the style and levels of the games.

We don't have any information on what Hearthstone cost to make, what MTGO cost to make, or how much money they make off of MTGO. MTGO isn't a micro-transaction game - its a game that has a small, hardcore number of players who spend lots and lots of money on it. Just look at the marketing. WOTC does not do anything to attract players to MTGO. It attracts people to the paper game.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Standard GR Undying

Creatures(32):
  • 4 Elvish Mystic
  • 4 Sylvan Caryatid
  • 2 Rattleclaw Mystic
  • 4 Hangarback Walker
  • 1 Shaman of the Forgotten Ways
  • 1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
  • 4 Courser of Kruphix
  • 4 Ashcloud Phoenix
  • 4 Whisperwood Elemental
  • 4 Bearer of the Heavens

Enchantments(2):
  • 2 Evolutionary Leap

Spells(3):
  • 3 Life's Legacy

Lands(23):
  • 2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
  • 1 Darksteel Citadel
  • 4 Wooded Foothills
  • 4 Temple of Abandon
  • 2 Rugged Highlands
  • 8 Forest
  • 2 Mountain

Sideboard(15):
  • 4 Nissa, Worldwaker
  • 3 Anger of the Gods
  • 2 Hornet Nest
  • 2 Destructive Revelry
  • 1 Cranial Archive
  • 1 Roast
  • 1 Plummet
  • 1 Feed the Clan
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Why 4 Worldwaker in the sideboard? What matchup would you ever want 4 Worldwaker in?
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";175156770]The planeswalkers are for control matchups. The deck is already pretty resilient so I just went with one card and used the rest of the board for other stuff.[/QUOTE]

Just drop a Gaea's Revenge and laugh
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Except nobody plays Sultai Charm and Abzan Charm is played by a very specific deck you don't have any reason to side in special anti-control cards for
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Nissa's racism has been totally retconned. Just look at the Origins story in the Fat Pack Player's Guide.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Maybe someone can explain Pucatrade to me better, but the only cards I have that people even want are fetchlands (I have like 70,000 points of other cards) and why the fuck would I sell a fetchland for fun money when those cards sell for straight cash on ebay

Edit: Okay, I figured it out. The heavy traders just have automated scripts to fulfill orders so you never even see any of the other stuff available. Fuck that shit.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Maybe someone can explain Pucatrade to me better, but the only cards I have that people even want are fetchlands and why the fuck would I sell a fetchland for fun money when those cards sell for straight cash on ebay
Click to expand...

Basically the conclusion that I came to. It's basically the Microsoft Points thing. You always wind up with a surplus of unused points so the system creates an incentive to feed more cards into the pool and remain invested in the site. It's a nice racket for building a service, but it's pretty far off from being a good deal for traders. I wouldn't call it a complete scam, but it's not entirely honest either. Between points and the waiting lines, the whole thing feels like they're looking down on my intelligence. It's a skinner box. Keep pushing those buttons, and maybe the prize comes out.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You realize that's just them having trouble figuring out on the back end how to replace all of the prizes with Itchy & Scratchy Money, right
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Random idea for a card:

Sack Return - 1UB
Sorcery
Target player sacrifices two creatures, then returns a creature card from his or her graveyard to his or her hand.
 
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