Yeah, even if people think their opponent is using fakes the vast majority of the time they won't call the judge. Those early print runs were inconsistent enough that it makes people unsure of their convictions and folks don't want to "be a dick" or whatever so they just let it slide if the cards are fairly close. That said, I wouldn't recommend anyone risk it because I'd be willing to bet that WOTC is going to get draconian over the next few years on folks found to be using a lot of fakes. EDIT: Unless it's at a Legacy/Vintage event. WOTC doesn't give a fuuuuck about those.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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Yeah, even if people think their opponent is using fakes the vast majority of the time they won't call the judge. Those early print runs were inconsistent enough that it makes people unsure of their convictions and folks don't want to "be a dick" or whatever so they just let it slide if the cards are fairly close. That said, I wouldn't recommend anyone risk it because I'd be willing to bet that WOTC is going to get draconian over the next few years on folks found to be using a lot of fakes. EDIT: Unless it's at a Legacy/Vintage event. WOTC doesn't give a fuuuuck about those.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
WOTC isn't gonna do anything because it isn't like I can buy an Underground Sea from them anyways
Hence the argument that the Reserved list is...
Shit. I'm not getting sucked into this.
They really won't do anything about it as things stand.
Wulfric
Member
The pool of available ABUR duals will only decrease over time. I can understand Wizard's desire to leave the Power Nine/Mox alone, but if every legacy player needs a playset of lands, you eventually run out of supply. It's a mess, to say the least.
I would not be opposed to reprints of the duals as an LGS exclusive. It would certainly make a more attractive collector's product than From the Vault. The foil stamp alone would deter fears of Chinese counterfeits.
Has SCG or any of the other big dealers spoken out about this? If Wizards were to reprint the duals conservatively, the original prints would surely still command a premium.
I would not be opposed to reprints of the duals as an LGS exclusive. It would certainly make a more attractive collector's product than From the Vault. The foil stamp alone would deter fears of Chinese counterfeits.
Has SCG or any of the other big dealers spoken out about this? If Wizards were to reprint the duals conservatively, the original prints would surely still command a premium.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I wonder how much these stupid Expedition lands are really gonna cost. All the predictions right now are just random guesses really.
I still think Scalding Tarn will be like $300 or even more.
I still think Scalding Tarn will be like $300 or even more.
charlequin
Banned
Really? I'm pretty skeptical that there were high-quality fakes available all that far in advance of when public awareness started to build.
SCG has consistently and strongly advocated for the elimination of the Reserved List, down to sending Ben Bleiweiss to a WotC summit on the Reserved List to tell them to knock it off. This position makes perfect sense too: really old printings of high-value cards won't lose all their value since printing is such an enormous determiner of price, and big stores would much rather do business in a high volume of lower-priced, more liquid products than moving individual high-value collector's items one by one.
I don't think there's really that much question here, besides exactly how much more than 1:216 these cards show up at. All card prices are basically determined by a combination of the price to open and the market demand, and we have a decent idea of both. The product is print-to-demand so ultimately if the prices go above a certain level people just buy and crack more. You're probably not going to see these account for more than $0.50 per pack of EV on average.
The prices are going to come down at blue fetches > non-blue fetches > blue shocks > non-blue shocks >>>>>>> tangos. People will pay $160 for a foil Scalding Tarn now so they'll certainly pay twice that for one of these. If that card winds up in the neighborhood of $350 then everything else can be extrapolated from there.
White bordered editions will always be far lower in price because of aesthetics, especially with money cards like duals
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Revised had a large print run for the time. It didn't have anything like a say, Khans of Tarkir print run. I was way too young to really know anything, I just know I was deeply disappointed when one day I went to the game store and they didn't have Revised anymore and just had Fourth Edition because all the cards they took out in Fourth Edition were fun cards like Demonic Hordes.
At the time the BIG story among us kids was the removal of most of the Demons (other than Lord of the Pit) and removal of the pentagrams from Unholy Strength because conservative Christian groups were concerned about the game influencing children to worship Satan.
As for the naming controversy on the Zendikar lands, I think we've figured out the solution: "Bofalands." Trust me it works on so many levels.
At the time the BIG story among us kids was the removal of most of the Demons (other than Lord of the Pit) and removal of the pentagrams from Unholy Strength because conservative Christian groups were concerned about the game influencing children to worship Satan.
As for the naming controversy on the Zendikar lands, I think we've figured out the solution: "Bofalands." Trust me it works on so many levels.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Getting stuck with a box nobody wants is the worst. Freshman year of college one of my friends had a box of Conflux from the year before that he was desperate to get rid of. "Anyone want to draft triple Conflux?" became a running joke
"God's Beard!"
Member
IoK confirmed :3
Joe Molotov
Member
hawt
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Goddamn it fuck Archangel of Tithes
Etrian Oddity
Member
The Eldrazi seem restricted to Grixis colors. I wonder if we'll see Orzhov colors in Oathkeepers...
Either way, an Eldrazi deck looks like it's gonna be really fun. I can't wait for this block.
Either way, an Eldrazi deck looks like it's gonna be really fun. I can't wait for this block.
I think you're underestimating the potential impact on Modern with counterfeit LotV, Snapcaster, Goyf, etc. They don't give a crap about reserved list cards but they damn well care about fakes potentially undercutting the money train that is Modern Masters.
I think Maro said White is the only color without Devoid, right?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There's a Golgari Eldrazi already
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Why are people so fucking obsessed with new evergreen keywords. He needs to stop answering those questions, they literally just added both Menace and Prowess, the former of which was a stupid thing to keyword in the first place.
Everything was $5
Everything was $5
Sounds good to me.
I don't see a problem with staples being $5. Might make me actually consider playing standard again. I'm already looking forward to BFZ limited
I really don't see how devoid could even be an evergreen keyword, it does absolutely nothing without other colorless matters cards to make it worthwhile.
All this discussion on price before the sets release is pointless. It's a free market. The price will be whatever people want to pay. Because someone guesses it at $400 doesn't mean enough will buy it at that price. Someone telling something should be $40 won't make it $40. It's better you wait a few weeks until the market has found its balance and once they figured out how rare these lands actually are.
MTG set prices for new releases are very predictable because there's a cap on the total combined value of all the cards in a set. (i.e. if Delta is $20, it's taking $20 out of the pool of $s available for the rest of the set to user.)
The distribution of the prices is determined by the free market. The cap is not, and is normally fairly static.
However, with BFZ, the extra demand caused by the promo foil lands is going to create extra demand that results in excess product being opened beyond the normal equilibrium levels. This in turn will result in the total price cap for rares/mythics/uncommons being lower than for other large sets.
We know how rare the lands are (they're very rare, with approximarly 1 per case.), and we know what the price of regular foils are, so we can extrapolate from there what the prices will be. (ridonkulous.) That Ridonkulous value is what's going to take a big chunk out of the total set prices.
1) The maximum average value of a pack that is "easily" attainable is ~$2.50, as long as the set is in print.
2) Some of that value is soaked up by the various land cycles, in a way that isn't the case for most sets.
That isn't really arguable in any way.
BFZ also has 10 dual lands, which iis going to spread set values for staples thin in a way we haven't seen for a very, very long time.
edit: We have not seen this since the days of Xth Editions.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, its expected. It's a tax on people who have a burning desire to have a Standard deck the week after launch.
They're very good, but they may not be auto-4xes in a lot of decks because the limitation is pretty big and punishes you for playing non-fetch duals like Tri-Lands, Man-Lands and Pain-lands.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Its sort of mediocre because its so much better on the draw.
The "skip your third land drop" trick is pretty cute. Wouldn't be shocked to see 1-2-4 as a norm in the curveouts, with limited 3s.
I thought you could only grab a Plain.
Doesn't have to be Basic. (Unlike Nissa.)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You can, but the Bofalands are all typed with basic land types (just like ABU duals and Shocklands) and its not restricted to basic lands.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I really hope this isn't serious-posting.
You are absolutely right in that, I just don't know if many people are willing to pay $1600 for a playset. Sure, in the early weeks it can happen but in the months after that? I still expect them to drop to around $200 a piece, which seems like a psychological better value. They still can make up for the 'loss' by slighly increasing the average price of the normal sets. I think if everybody would put up Siege Rhino for $2 more everyone would be still buying them. It's just difficult for one store to try to increase prices because of how the markets works. But if stores have trouble selling the expeditions at a steady state, they could easily decrease prices by sizeable chunk.
What's false?
1. It costs WW which is restrictive.
2. It cannot fetch a land every time.
3. It can only fetch a plains.
4. It's a 2/2. In a format with massive creature power creep.
5. It's not like there's anything to make it good. White Devotion won't be a thing anymore without Nykthos.
1. It costs WW which is restrictive.
2. It cannot fetch a land every time.
3. It can only fetch a plains.
4. It's a 2/2. In a format with massive creature power creep.
5. It's not like there's anything to make it good. White Devotion won't be a thing anymore without Nykthos.
charlequin
Banned
Yeah that article says:
Which is pretty much spot-on to what everyone was suggesting. This is an unusually straightforward case because all the Expeditions are known cards with known levels of demand, so with both sides of the equation (demand in terms of existing demand, supply in terms of effectively unlimited) we can pretty much solve out for it.
EDIT: Also:
Big contrast from Jesse's article the other day. I think the model we have these days probably makes life difficult for second-hand retailers but it's almost certainly better overall for people who want to play Standard.
Which is pretty much spot-on to what everyone was suggesting. This is an unusually straightforward case because all the Expeditions are known cards with known levels of demand, so with both sides of the equation (demand in terms of existing demand, supply in terms of effectively unlimited) we can pretty much solve out for it.
EDIT: Also:
Big contrast from Jesse's article the other day. I think the model we have these days probably makes life difficult for second-hand retailers but it's almost certainly better overall for people who want to play Standard.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The best part of that article is that he gives a pretty detailed explanation of something everyone should have, but didn't seem to know: Ulamog 2 isn't very good.
I'm on my phone right now but later can answer all of these questions. Lets just say it's an incredibly powerful 2 drop for now.
What does Bofaland mean? (I know what it refers to the new dual lands, but whats the meaning behind the word?)
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