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[pelicansurf]

Are the money rare cards that have been printed so far in both Modern Masters sets expected to never see a standard reprint again? I think that's whack if so.

Tarmogoyf is never being printed in standard. Probably.

 

[WanderingWind]

We've known for a while, but I still think it's bunk that they're not going to reprint the three original Eldrazi in standard. People whining about Annihilator ruining it for everyone.

Seconded.

 

[aidan]

Tarmogoyf is never being printed in standard. Probably.

How good is 'goyf in a Standard environment?

Spoiler

Serious question. I wasn't playing when it was Standard legal.

 

[kirblar]

How good is 'goyf in a Standard environment?

Spoiler

Serious question. I wasn't playing when it was Standard legal.

It was good back then, and would be even better now and warp the format to force them to print much more universal cheap removal.

 

[bigkrev]

Are the money rare cards that have been printed so far in both Modern Masters sets expected to never see a standard reprint again? I think that's whack if so.

It's not necessarily true, but very unlikely. They have no problem reprinting expensive cards into standard (Thoughtsieze was close to 80 bucks before the Theros reprint, Mutavault was 50 before M14), but in the cases of a lot of cards, they are either too powerful to print into standard (Dark Confidant, Cryptic Command), some flavor-wise can't be reprinted in most sets (Vendillion Clique), and others are cards they have decided make the game too unfun (Blood Moon).

Tarmogoyf is the one case where it is not too powerful to reprint into standard, but the secondary market value might scare them off..

It was good back then, and would be even better now and warp the format to force them to print much more universal cheap removal.

In an format where there are no Fetchlands, A goyf will usually be a 3/4 (Creatures, Sorcery, Instant), with the potential to grow to 5/6 (Planeswalker, Artifact). It would be strong, but not as strong as, say, Siege Rhino is right now

 

[aidan]

It was good back then, and would be even better now and warp the format to force them to print much more universal cheap removal.

Does it outpace Tasigur, Hooting Mandrills, Gurmag Angler, Siege Rhino by that much?

 

[kirblar]

You know how Mono-U Dragons is good because it can drop game-ending threats by tapping 1-2 mans with full counter back up? Same thing w/ Goyf in that style of deck. It just ends up everywhere.

Does it outpace Tasigur, Hooting Mandrills, Gurmag Angler, Siege Rhino by that much?

Yeah, it would. It also just warps everything around in a way they don't want to have to deal with.

 

[Hero]

I couldn't figure out why there was a heart at the end of this post. (lol)



Dude, cascading into Abrupt Decay is total BS.



I read all that dialogue in my head with Jace being played by that guy that played Peter on Heroes and Ral's dialogue by the guy who played Mark Sloan on Grey's Anatomy. I'm pretty sure both of those dudes could deliver the dialogue exactly as written.



Living End, Restore Balance? Also, Hypergenesis is banned because Cascade exists. Its not even just the brokenness of the mechanic. Its mindless 2 for 1s and the rate of return on a 3/2 haste is too high to also get to Cascade any 3 or less CMC spell that you get. You're basically getting a 3/2 for free on top of whatever the payment is for the spell you get. 3/2 haste isn't a bad return even if you turn over Thoughtseize or Bolt.

When was the last time Living End or Restore Balance top 8'd a major event or even won it?

Hyper genesis deserved to be banned because the alternative was banning a shit ton of cascade cards that are fine in their own.

Not sure why you are clinging to this 2 for 1 angle so hard. Cryptic Command is a 2 for 1 at instant speed and you get to pick the modes. Snapcaster Mage is a 2 for 1 and again you can play it at instant speed. Remand? 2 for 1! Virtual time walk in the first few turns of the game.

 

[FeD.nL]

The Caves of Koilos. I play more basics than a lot of people because I like to avoid getting demolished by Blood Moon (and this deck only needs one black source the vast majority of the time - Inquisition, Thoughtseize and Sorin all require only one black source and practically all of your tokens generators need lots of white).

Missed the reply, thanks again!

What would you suggest as the next purchase 3 Thoughtseizes or a set of Windswept Heaths and a single Thoughtseize?

 

[ironmang]

When was the last time Living End or Restore Balance top 8'd a major event or even won it?

Hyper genesis deserved to be banned because the alternative was banning a shit ton of cascade cards that are fine in their own.

Not sure why you are clinging to this 2 for 1 angle so hard. Cryptic Command is a 2 for 1 at instant speed and you get to pick the modes. Snapcaster Mage is a 2 for 1 and again you can play it at instant speed. Remand? 2 for 1! Virtual time walk in the first few turns of the game.

Ever snapcaster back a cryptic? HolyShit.mp3

 

[WanderingWind]

Missed the reply, thanks again!

What would you suggest as the next purchase be Thoughtseizes or a set of Windswept Heaths and a single Thoughtseize?

Fetchlands first. Depending on when you're going to buy into them, Thoughtsiezes are going to dip substantially in price after rotation. Fetchlands are the cheapest they'll likely ever be right now.

 

[bigkrev]

Fetchlands first. Depending on when you're going to buy into them, Thoughtsiezes are going to dip substantially in price after rotation. Fetchlands are the cheapest they'll likely ever be right now.

Nope, it's going to be like Snapcaster. No dip, just a steady price increase

 

[kirblar]

Nope, it's going to be like Snapcaster. No dip, just a steady price increase

Agreed.

 

[WanderingWind]

Nope, it's going to be like Snapcaster. No dip, just a steady price increase

Nah. Snapcaster is played in a ridiculous amounts of decks and it actually did dip. It didn't start the steady increase until BNG released. And Thoughtsieze isn't played in as many decks as Snapcaster. Snappy is the second most played card in modern. Thoughtseize isn't even in the top 10. It will go down from 40 bucks before climbing again.

Agreed.

This point isn't matter of agree/disagree. I am stating a fact that Snapcaster dipped in price. Feel free to look it up independently.

 

[Firemind]

Good. I would like to get a few faerieseizes of my own for a reasonable price instead of oldmanseizes. I'm going to make Grixis Haterator work in Modern dammit!

 

[f0rk]

Ever snapcaster back a cryptic? HolyShit.mp3

When you draw a Snapcaster off of Cryptic....yesssssss

 

[FeD.nL]

Fetchlands first. Depending on when you're going to buy into them, Thoughtsiezes are going to dip substantially in price after rotation. Fetchlands are the cheapest they'll likely ever be right now.

Thank you, I should wait with the marsh flats right?

 

[Angry Grimace]

When was the last time Living End or Restore Balance top 8'd a major event or even won it?

Hyper genesis deserved to be banned because the alternative was banning a shit ton of cascade cards that are fine in their own.

Not sure why you are clinging to this 2 for 1 angle so hard. Cryptic Command is a 2 for 1 at instant speed and you get to pick the modes. Snapcaster Mage is a 2 for 1 and again you can play it at instant speed. Remand? 2 for 1! Virtual time walk in the first few turns of the game.

Because Cascade is a sucky lucksack mechanic and Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage are well designed, fun cards that require some kind of skill other than slamming them on the table.

Its not just that its OP, every single thing about Cascade is dumb and bad.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ever snapcaster back a cryptic? HolyShit.mp3

There's a whole deck based around that, and it's the only time looking at the card doesn't make me want to vomit.

 

[kirblar]

Apparently the Vapor Snag in the HootHoot list is supposed to be another Simic Charm, fyi.

 

[WanderingWind]

Thank you, I should wait with the marsh flats right?

Definitely. There is no guarantee, but they might (probably) get reprinted in Battle for Zendikar. It all depends on when you need your deck finished by though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Definitely. There is no guarantee, but they might (probably) get reprinted in Battle for Zendikar. It all depends on when you need your deck finished by though.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the initial plan was to put them in Dragons of Tarkir, and then they moved them out when the rest of the development team convinced Mark Rosewater to switch away from enemy colored dragon broods to allied (at which point no cycle was needed since allied fetches were in Khans)

 

[divisionbyzorro]

The only reason Living End didn't win a GP is because of one of the more memorable punts in GP Finals history. I think it was early 2014; he failed to use Faerie Macabre to bust up the Melira combo and conceded to a Melira Pod player in game three.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Can't we all just agree that modern sucks and watch Legacy together?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9qNPRLO-Uo

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";165416150]Can't we all just agree that modern sucks and watch Legacy together?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9qNPRLO-Uo[/QUOTE]

I don't know why anyone cares about a format nobody can actually play except for people who blow all of their disposable income on Underground Seas and Volcanic Islands. Seriously, the entire format revolves around cards which were printed in tiny numbers 20 years ago.

 

[Royal_Flush]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";165416150]Can't we all just agree that modern sucks and watch Legacy together?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9qNPRLO-Uo[/QUOTE]

This is madness!

 

[y2dvd]

Man screw the secondary market. Goyf would've been a great reprint for standards. It would take much longer to build him up, there are better to play, it gets weakened by delve. It's a card that would totally be mediocre.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Man screw the secondary market. Goyf would've been a great reprint for standards. It would take much longer to build him up, there are better to play, it gets weakened by delve. It's a card that would totally be mediocre.

We have fetchlands, and we have Thoughtseize, Duress and Despise in standard. He'd be everywhere and he'd be huge.

 

[f0rk]

We have fetchlands, and we have Thoughtseize, Duress and Despise in standard. He'd be everywhere and he'd be huge.

Yeah, other problems include ubiquitous enchantments like Courser and an increased number of planeswalkers compared to modern.
He could be fine in Standard but the enviroment would be very limited. No fetches, not many playable enchantments/artifacts

 

[Firemind]

Yeah, in this block, obviously goyf is a huge problem. He wasn't that oppressive during Time Spiral. Just a good, efficient creature. Lorwyn also had PWs and even tribal spells!

 

[f0rk]

Yeah, in this block, obviously goyf is a huge problem. He wasn't that oppressive during Time Spiral. Just a good, efficient creature. Lorwyn also had PWs and even tribal spells!

I mentioned it before I think, but I want to play BUG just so I could make fucking massive Goyfs with Thought Scour binning Liliana + Bitterblossom.

 

[kirblar]

We have fetchlands, and we have Thoughtseize, Duress and Despise in standard. He'd be everywhere and he'd be huge.

Also all the mulch-style cards they print nowadays.

Tribal was likely huge in keeping him in check, since he didn't synergize well in most decks.

 

[aidan]

Yeah, in this block, obviously goyf is a huge problem. He wasn't that oppressive during Time Spiral. Just a good, efficient creature. Lorwyn also had PWs and even tribal spells!

Ultimate Price, Valorous Stance, Silk Wrap, etc. aren't enough to keep it balanced?

 

[Horatorobor]

I'm tempted to start playing but I have no cards to play with so I started checking prices of packs and such.
Today a saw a fat and an intro pack both for 38€ and I was thinking if it had good value and cards to build a decent to start playing again.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I'm tempted to start playing but I have no cards to play with so I started checking prices of packs and such.
Today a saw a fat and an intro pack both for 38€ and I was thinking if it had good value and cards to build a decent to start playing again.

If you haven't played for a while, I recommend playing Duels of the Planeswalkers 2014 to brush up on the rules and such.

If you have no cards at all, then I recommend getting a Deckbuilder's Toolkit.

Otherwise, yeah, that seems fine.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Ultimate Price, Valorous Stance, Silk Wrap, etc. aren't enough to keep it balanced?

He dies to everything in general. Dies to Removal isn't a super relevant argument when the duder in question costs 1G.

 

[aidan]

He dies to everything in general. Dies to Removal isn't a super relevant argument when the duder in question costs 1G.

Sure. But 1X answers exist that don't apply to cards like Tasigur and Gurmag Angler, which also often come down on turn two or three. I'm just not entirely convinced that it would warp the Standard format to the extent that a lot of other Modern powerhouses would.

Spoiler

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just genuinely curious about why he'd be *that* much stronger than similar cards in the format.

 

[SigmasonicX]

If removal was an issue for Tarmogoyf, I don't think it would see much play in Modern.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

People tend to underestimate how powerful it is to do two meaningful things in a single turn.

 

[aidan]

People tend to underestimate how powerful it is to do two meaningful things in a single turn.

Thanks. This is good perspective.

 

[Hero]

Because Cascade is a sucky lucksack mechanic and Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage are well designed, fun cards that require some kind of skill other than slamming them on the table.

Its not just that its OP, every single thing about Cascade is dumb and bad.

Yea, because holding up your mana and passing turn to play Snapcaster Mage and targeting Remand or Mana Leak or any other removal instant speed spell is very skill intensive, right?

I don't even understand how you can think SCM is well designed considering it's basically Recoup on a 2/1 body with flash, which is a red ability and should've been a red creature.

 

[Horatorobor]

If you haven't played for a while, I recommend playing Duels of the Planeswalkers 2014 to brush up on the rules and such.

If you have no cards at all, then I recommend getting a Deckbuilder's Toolkit.

Otherwise, yeah, that seems fine.

Last time I played I think it was like 2009, the rules have changed that much?

 

[bigkrev]

Last time I played I think it was like 2009, the rules have changed that much?

They made some pretty significant changes in the middle of 2009, actually.

The quick summary: Mana Burn doesn't exist, Combat damage doesn't go on the stack, and each player can have the same Legendary Creature on the battlefield simultaneously.

 

[blindrocket]

Good. I would like to get a few faerieseizes of my own for a reasonable price instead of oldmanseizes. I'm going to make Grixis Haterator work in Modern dammit!

I really disliked the Theros Thoughtseize when it first released but I guess that looking at it for so long got me used to it. It doesn't bother me at all anymore.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yea, because holding up your mana and passing turn to play Snapcaster Mage and targeting Remand or Mana Leak or any other removal instant speed spell is very skill intensive, right?

I don't even understand how you can think SCM is well designed considering it's basically Recoup on a 2/1 body with flash, which is a red ability and should've been a red creature.

The nicest way I can put this is, yes, it actually is.

And Snapcaster's ability is both red and blue. The color pie isn't as narrow as you're suggesting. Nor is it here or there, really.

 

[ElyrionX]

Yea, because holding up your mana and passing turn to play Snapcaster Mage and targeting Remand or Mana Leak or any other removal instant speed spell is very skill intensive, right?

Lol. Have you even played with the card?

 

["God's Beard!"]

This is madness!

Speaking of madness, here's Owen Turtenwald's finals match with his latest draft:

"Well, thanks for watching. It wasn't particularly competitive."

 

[Firemind]

I really disliked the Theros Thoughtseize when it first released but I guess that looking at it for so long got me used to it. It doesn't bother me at all anymore.

Kind of like how the new goyf doesn't give me a heart attack when it enters play anymore.

It's almost too cute. Dat flavour text

Spoiler

awful

 

["God's Beard!"]

Tarmogoyf is just a baby Consuming Abberation.

Man I miss that mill deck.

 

[blindrocket]

Kind of like how the new goyf doesn't give me a heart attack when it enters play anymore.


It's almost too cute. Dat flavour text

Spoiler

awful

I used to have the official Tarmogoyf playmat with that artwork on it, actually. Until it got destroyed... but I don't care to replace it with how much the asking price is on eBay...