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[divisionbyzorro]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166371485]Starting to lose it not having an LGS.

Man. I'm ready. Gimme some of dat.[/QUOTE]

No kidding. MM15 is not doing it for me. I've done a few drafts online, and really not feeling it. Partially this is due to losing a lot, but I have some genuine gripes with the format.

Spoiler

Chiefly, I think it was a huge mistake to put Wayfarer's Bauble and bouncelands in the set. Make the five-color deck be an offshoot of green ramp, and not just "oh I'll snag all the goodstuff and play everything that comes to me." Even if that strategy isn't great, it's available, and screws up the draft environment. I much preferred the way that MM1 handled this - five-color domain was clearly a base green deck enabled by Kodama's Reach and Search for Tomorrow. You could splash off the landcyclers, but you couldn't go full-five color if you weren't heavy green).

 

["God's Beard!"]

No kidding. MM15 is not doing it for me. I've done a few drafts online, and really not feeling it. Partially this is due to losing a lot, but I have some genuine gripes with the format.

Spoiler

Chiefly, I think it was a huge mistake to put Wayfarer's Bauble and bouncelands in the set. Make the five-color deck be an offshoot of green ramp, and not just "oh I'll snag all the goodstuff and play everything that comes to me." Even if that strategy isn't great, it's available, and screws up the draft environment. I much preferred the way that MM1 handled this - five-color domain was clearly a base green deck enabled by Kodama's Reach and Search for Tomorrow. You could splash off the landcyclers, but you couldn't go full-five color if you weren't heavy green).

I actually really like MM2 draft. Certainly more than DTK/DTK.FRF, but I wonder how much of that is my ability to force the same cards I loved from Rise of the Eldrazi drafts.

I still don't think it's worth more than regular MSRP to play, though, which is why I only played phantom drafts.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166373221]I actually really like MM2 draft. Certainly more than DTK/DTK.FRF, but I wonder how much of that is my ability to force the same cards I loved from Rise of the Eldrazi drafts.

I still don't think it's worth more than regular MSRP to play, though, which is why I only played phantom drafts.[/QUOTE]

I've only spent phantom points so far as well; I have a friend who bought a box and I've committed to pay my share for a draft from it, but that's it.

I have no nostalgia for Rise, so that doesn't help its case for me. I actually just find the format really "messy," and not particularly fun. Meh. I'm really just becoming a curmudgeon who can't appreciate anything that's not cube.

 

[phazedplasma]

Moving to Denver next month. Where should I play magic? Looking for competitive limited modern and standard!

 

["God's Beard!"]

I've only spent phantom points so far as well; I have a friend who bought a box and I've committed to pay my share for a draft from it, but that's it.

I have no nostalgia for Rise, so that doesn't help its case for me. I actually just find the format really "messy," and not particularly fun. Meh. I'm really just becoming a curmudgeon who can't appreciate anything that's not cube.

Well one of the themes from the GP was the sentiment that if you're not quick enough finding the open archetype and grab all the synergy for yourself, you wind up with decks that don't do anything. From my experience, I haven't found anything that goes against that idea.

Some decks look like complete piles, and others look like they could have been cube drafts.

 

[GregLombardi]

Moving to Denver next month. Where should I play magic? Looking for competitive limited modern and standard!

Start with Game Heroes for constructed of any type I think. My favorite limited environments are Total Escape Games and Game Heroes. Denver Central Games is good for constructed as well, and their draft format is indeed picks which I suppose is more competitive. I'm not a huge fan of picks as prizes myself. But up to you.

Not sure where LSV plays nowadays to be honest, I think his favorite shop in the area may have shut down. I run into him from time to time but obviously don't know him.

 

[ElyrionX]

Its hard to say because stupid MTG Finance people constantly fucking ruin shit by doing massive buyouts to run the prices up.

This is the fucking issue with the game now. The market is small enough to be cornered by a few players who make the lives of everyone else miserable. Meanwhile, we have a poorly-managed WoTC who is still haunted by Chronicles and the reserved list and effectively does nothing at all to discourage this practice. They milk the cow as much as they can by setting high MSRPs for limited print sets like MM15 and making sure that the set's EV roughly corresponds to the MSRP, effectively sustaining stupid prices in the secondary market. It's absolutely unbelievable how much shit MTG players can take.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166377325]Well one of the themes from the GP was the sentiment that if you're not quick enough finding the open archetype and grab all the synergy for yourself, you wind up with decks that don't do anything. From my experience, I haven't found anything that goes against that idea.

Some decks look like complete piles, and others look like they could have been cube drafts.[/QUOTE]

I noticed this when I watched Kenji draft on his stream. He was deciding after about 2-3 picks what his deck was going to be and he aggressively cut it. I didn't make the connection that this might actually be the "correct" way to do it; I assumed it was to be entertaining and show off different types of decks. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[manipulate]

http://legendstech.tumblr.com/post/117807127391/the-magic-the-gathering-pro-tour-sucks

seems accurate

 

[Angry Grimace]

http://legendstech.tumblr.com/post/117807127391/the-magic-the-gathering-pro-tour-sucks

seems accurate

That guy is trolling, btw.

 

[kirblar]

That guy is trolling, btw.

He most definitely is not. His observations/grumblings reflect a lot of things us mid-tier grinders have figured out over he years, even if he seems like a terrible person to hang out with.

 

["God's Beard!"]

He most definitely is not. His observations/grumblings reflect a lot of things us mid-tier grinders have figured out over he years, even if he seems like a terrible person to hang out with.

Mid-tier grinders represent!

This is the fucking issue with the game now. The market is small enough to be cornered by a few players who make the lives of everyone else miserable. Meanwhile, we have a poorly-managed WoTC who is still haunted by Chronicles and the reserved list and effectively does nothing at all to discourage this practice. They milk the cow as much as they can by setting high MSRPs for limited print sets like MM15 and making sure that the set's EV roughly corresponds to the MSRP, effectively sustaining stupid prices in the secondary market. It's absolutely unbelievable how much shit MTG players can take.

Definitely worth reposting this article:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

 

[manipulate]

And yeah on the wider note - it does seem like Magic should be a much bigger thing than it actually is. Feels very mismanaged

 

[Angry Grimace]

He most definitely is not. His observations/grumblings reflect a lot of things us mid-tier grinders have figured out over he years, even if he seems like a terrible person to hang out with.

He and his buddy are members on SA and they are trolling.

 

[Exokell]

No kidding. MM15 is not doing it for me. I've done a few drafts online, and really not feeling it. Partially this is due to losing a lot, but I have some genuine gripes with the format.

Spoiler

Chiefly, I think it was a huge mistake to put Wayfarer's Bauble and bouncelands in the set. Make the five-color deck be an offshoot of green ramp, and not just "oh I'll snag all the goodstuff and play everything that comes to me." Even if that strategy isn't great, it's available, and screws up the draft environment. I much preferred the way that MM1 handled this - five-color domain was clearly a base green deck enabled by Kodama's Reach and Search for Tomorrow. You could splash off the landcyclers, but you couldn't go full-five color if you weren't heavy green).

yep, domain/sunburst is the most powerful deck. I fucking force it all the time

 

[kirblar]

He and his buddy are members on SA and they are trolling.

I mean, there's a lot of truth-bombs in there for a "troll piece."

 

[divisionbyzorro]

He most definitely is not. His observations/grumblings reflect a lot of things us mid-tier grinders have figured out over he years, even if he seems like a terrible person to hang out with.

I'm curious if his perspective is similar to, say, a mid-tier poker player. Or is there just enough money to be had in fleecing drunk tourists that it doesn't matter...

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, there's a lot of truth-bombs in there for a "troll piece."

That's why its good trolling, bruh. Trolling and truth aren't mutually exclusive. He's trying to come off an asshole about it for hits.

 

[phazedplasma]

Start with Game Heroes for constructed of any type I think. My favorite limited environments are Total Escape Games and Game Heroes. Denver Central Games is good for constructed as well, and their draft format is indeed picks which I suppose is more competitive. I'm not a huge fan of picks as prizes myself. But up to you.

Not sure where LSV plays nowadays to be honest, I think his favorite shop in the area may have shut down. I run into him from time to time but obviously don't know him.

Thanks bro

 

[y2dvd]

Went 3-0 twice in MM15 drafts now. The latest one I drafted 5 color good stuff. First pack I just kept picking removals in all colors and 2 creatures. Ended up just playing 9 creatures in the end. It's silly how effective 5 colors can be. I will say domain and sunburst slightly competes with each other.

Here's my problem. I love drafting and I do find this draft format fun. I've been paying premium prices to draft only to get rewarded with shit. Seriously, out of the last 3 drafts, the last $90 I've spent, and the few packs that I have, the only thing I have to show is a Remand that was passed to me. The amount of janky rares and uncommons are unbelievable. I shouldn't have to pay this much to enjoy a game and get shit value in return.


I'm pretty sure I'm done with regular drafting MM15.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Went 3-0 twice in MM15 drafts now. The latest one I drafted 5 color good stuff. First pack I just kept picking removals in all colors and 2 creatures. Ended up just playing 9 creatures in the end. It's silly how effective 5 colors can be. I will say domain and sunburst slightly competes with each other.

Here's my problem. I love drafting and I do find this draft format fun. I've been paying premium prices to draft only to get rewarded with shit. Seriously, out of the last 3 drafts, the last $90 I've spent, and the few packs that I have, the only thing I have to show is a Remand that was passed to me. The amount of janky rares and uncommons are unbelievable. I shouldn't have to pay this much to enjoy a game and get shit value in return.


I'm pretty sure I'm done with regular drafting MM15.

There's a fundamental disconnect between a set obviously designed to be drafted while also costing 30-45 bucks to draft. Really annoying.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166386161]There's a fundamental disconnect between a set obviously designed to be drafted while also costing 30-45 bucks to draft. Really annoying.[/QUOTE]

Uh, the fundamental disconnect is between a draftable set and a set that just prints random constructed playables.

 

[Jhriad]

This is the fucking issue with the game now. The market is small enough to be cornered by a few players who make the lives of everyone else miserable. Meanwhile, we have a poorly-managed WoTC who is still haunted by Chronicles and the reserved list and effectively does nothing at all to discourage this practice. They milk the cow as much as they can by setting high MSRPs for limited print sets like MM15 and making sure that the set's EV roughly corresponds to the MSRP, effectively sustaining stupid prices in the secondary market. It's absolutely unbelievable how much shit MTG players can take.

If they were actually concerned about the cost of the game to the end user they would print sets like Modern Masters in a large enough print run, at a reasonable MSRP, that buylists wouldn't be able to effectively set the floor on how low cards would drop.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166380741]Definitely worth reposting this article:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I read that a few days ago and thought it was and excellent summary of how WOTC milks the value of reprints. Unfortunately for us it feels like it's a zero sum game and ultimately we're going to be the losers in this whole affair.

 

[OnPoint]

I mean, there's a lot of truth-bombs in there for a "troll piece."

It was an effective article. Made me never want to get into actual competitive Magic. I'm much happier playing with friends at my kitchen table than how that sounds.

 

[GregLombardi]

Thanks bro

No prob. Let me know if you need any more info on the area / want to meet up sometime. Denver is a crazy place.

 

[charlequin]

http://legendstech.tumblr.com/post/117807127391/the-magic-the-gathering-pro-tour-sucks

seems accurate

"Magic is played by nerds and event payouts are shitty" is only ten words and doesn't make the author sound like some loathsome and miserable garbage person.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166380741]
Definitely worth reposting this article:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account[/QUOTE]

This, on the other hand, is pretty sharp. I appreciate when someone can look the awkward economics of the product straight in the eye without getting all het up about it. I don't think WotC is quite as sharp at this as he suggests (it's still ultimately just ten or so people making calls from inside a timeshifted bubble) but I do think it captures some of the reality of how reprints are used to sell sets.

 

[darkside31337]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166386161]There's a fundamental disconnect between a set obviously designed to be drafted while also costing 30-45 bucks to draft. Really annoying.[/QUOTE]

The primary reason its designed to be drafted is to keep the value of packs down. The fact the set isn't getting a second run says it all. This was a draftable format for all of a couple weeks.

I would honestly rather see them design a set that wasn't mean to be drafted and existed for what should be its primary purpose - making older cards more accessible for a format they are trying to push. You can still have cards that are less valuable, more niche in its usage and still actually be designed for modern accessibility in mind. That is not what they have done with Modern Masters.

 

[charlequin]

And yeah on the wider note - it does seem like Magic should be a much bigger thing than it actually is. Feels very mismanaged

It's the biggest hobby game in the world and just put up seven years of double-digit growth. What more do you want out of it?

If they were actually concerned about the cost of the game to the end user

Why would they care about that?

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah, I read that a few days ago and thought it was and excellent summary of how WOTC milks the value of reprints. Unfortunately for us it feels like it's a zero sum game and ultimately we're going to be the losers in this whole affair.

I mean, at the end of the day I think the article's final point is spot on: if this is the strategy that keeps the accountants happy, it means we get to keep getting new Magic product

 

[kirblar]

MM2's pricing and lack of value relative to MM1 screams "WE DO NOT WANT THIS SELLING ABOVE MSRP AT LAUNCH UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"

 

["God's Beard!"]

Speaking of value, there's some good buys out there. I feel like Noble Hierarch is only going up and Inquisition is probably getting a reprint, so those are on my trade for/away lists. Trying to trade for Force of Wills but nobody's biting :-(

I'm surprised how well Bitterblossom is holding for a card almost nobody plays compared to say, Vendilion Clique. I was certain it was gonna drop another 5-10 dollars.

 

[charlequin]

MM2's pricing and lack of value relative to MM1 screams "WE DO NOT WANT THIS SELLING ABOVE MSRP AT LAUNCH UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"

Yeah, at first the MM15 strategy really confused me, but after seeing it play out I think they really just wanted to find the opposite pole from MMA and release a limited-run set that was available at list and had a meaningful impact on the prices of many cards.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Magic is clearly priced appropriately since I've met lots of players with cards that are worth more than the car they drive.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166394849]Speaking of value, there's some good buys out there. I feel like Noble Hierarch is only going up and Inquisition is probably getting a reprint, so those are on my trade for/away lists. Trying to trade for Force of Wills but nobody's biting :-(

I'm surprised how well Bitterblossom is holding for a card almost nobody plays compared to say, Vendilion Clique. I was certain it was gonna drop another 5-10 dollars.[/QUOTE]

People are starting to put it into more things because supply is a bit better (you can't trade for someone no one has).

 

["God's Beard!"]

Worth buying forces at 75? Price history has a weird arc.

People are starting to put it into more things because supply is a bit better (you can't trade for someone no one has).

Maybe. It's not like the price has decreased all that much.

 

[WanderingWind]

"Oh," fans cried. "This modern masters spellbook is too expensive and has too many valuable spells. I had better hoard unopened tomes for future dividends."

So then, the Wizards of the Coast cast a spell and brought into being a second, less valuable spellbook.

"Oh," fans cried. "This volume is more expensive, but is comprised mostly of refuse and broken dreams. I shall pay no never mind to this one, save for the 92 drafts I normally do."

Thus it came to past that the Wizards, wizened and set in their ways, did look upon the landscape and despaired. For theirs was a kingdom of ruin, where true peace was a dream lost within a dream. One by one, they drank from their flasks of bittered rum and let their voices be heard. There must be a way to make the common folk happy. Some said they should revive the old magics, locked away long ago by the Seal of Reservation. "Then we risk loosing the Barristers of Gehanna upon our persons," the elders said.

Others said that perhaps the path to resolution lay in the opening up of the spellbook to the common folk, loosing the mythical grip on the most rarest of spells. "Ah," the slowest-witted and least-liked among the wizards said. "Then what of those souls who have spent their hard earned coin in collecting those spells?"

"A pox upon those peasants," the rest thought, but were silenced nonetheless. For they knew that path could lead to the ruination of all things, as foretold in the Chronicles of yore.

The Wizards put their heads together and thought, for many nights and for many days. While shimmering monstrosities rampaged across the villages of the frozen lands north of their stronghold, they thought. While the villainous Turtle Knight slandered the chivalrous, they pondered. At long last, they came up with a solution. It was bold. It was daring. It may be the last, best hope of saving modern magics from oblivion. They would make cast another spell, a third salvo to save their magics. This time, the tome they brought into existence would be cheaper, but also filled with valuable spells. It would be the best of both worlds.

"Surely," they said. "This would appease the peasantry."

Naive that thought may have been, but noble in its aim. For of all the madness, chaos and beauty of the world and all its magics, there is but one constant.

The peasantry are never truly happy.

 

["God's Beard!"]

WW, you still need stuff for infect? I'm getting in some Hierarchs.

 

[WanderingWind]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166397481]WW, you still need stuff for infect? I'm getting in some Hierarchs.[/QUOTE]

Verily.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Verily.

gimme your volcanic

 

[WanderingWind]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";166397773]gimme your volcanic [/QUOTE]

I would make that trade in a heartbeat. Sadly, I sold it off when I decided if I was going to play Vintage/Legacy it would be online. (Thanks to VMA).

 

["God's Beard!"]

Man, getting Force of Wills for a good deal is hard.

I would make that trade in a heartbeat. Sadly, I sold it off when I decided if I was going to play Vintage/Legacy it would be online. (Thanks to VMA).

Just realized your deckbox is way outdated lol

 

[WanderingWind]

Oh. Yeah. Deckbox ended up being way too much work. I never actually did many successful trades on there. Most people would hit me up and be like "I'll trade you a Ruric Thar for your Snapcaster, they're about the same price."

Nah, son. Nah. I'll trade, but more for specific things. Like, I need Heirarchs. What do you need?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Oh. Yeah. Deckbox ended up being way too much work. I never actually did many successful trades on there. Most people would hit me up and be like "I'll trade you a Ruric Thar for your Snapcaster, they're about the same price."

Nah, son. Nah. I'll trade, but more for specific things. Like, I need Heirarchs. What do you need?

I mean, I'll stack Snapcasters to the heavens right now if you've got 'em.

But what I need more than anything are forces, tundras and a karakas lol
Flusterstorms, Stoneforge, Bitterblossoms...

https://deckbox.org/sets/995604

I have two Bitterblossoms and 4 stoneforges I can give up for the right trade.

HOLY SHIT BLOOD MOON IS 50???

SELL SELL SELL.

I have several of those and I don't play them in infect or UWR Geist.

Alright, I'll PM you when my hierarchs start arriving then.

 

[WanderingWind]

I have two Bitterblossoms and 4 stoneforges I can give up for the right trade.

HOLY SHIT BLOOD MOON IS 50???

SELL SELL SELL.

I have several of those and I don't play them in infect or UWR Geist.

 

[Firemind]

But Blood Moon is an amazing payoff card.

dat feeling when you have all these valuable cards but can't attend tournaments

 

[manipulate]

It's the biggest hobby game in the world and just put up seven years of double-digit growth. What more do you want out of it?

I guess it's hard for me to believe that the game is doing the best job it can at attracting new players.. The E-sports/hearthstone comparison is sort of confronting. To a certain extent I think the highly skewed playerbase of Magic (people that don't mind spending hours in dank sweaty caves) is a result of WOTC starving the game

I mean I get it's hard to make the business case to some skeptical suit guy that investing more in venues, player rewards etc is worth it, but in the long run.. it is, isn't it? You're restricting the playerbase to people that are willing to endure this shit under the current model. And there simply aren't that many kind of people, at the end of the day

Basically I think if they want to pull in the normies market (and another note on this - normies have way more money, and are way more willing to spend it, than the poverty-nerd market), they could be doing a much better job than they are doing. I think it's fair to say that the MTG culture that exists is a direct result of WOTC's policies...

 

[OnPoint]

I have two Bitterblossoms and 4 stoneforges I can give up for the right trade.

HOLY SHIT BLOOD MOON IS 50???

SELL SELL SELL.

I have several of those and I don't play them in infect or UWR Geist.

I have three I need to decide what I want to do with. I don't need them for Grixis Delver right? I should probably trade them or sell them and use the money to buy something I like.

 

[Firemind]

When you think about it, Magic has some funky physical laws.

"All nonbasic lands are now mountains."

Let that sink in for a while.

 

[y2dvd]

The primary reason its designed to be drafted is to keep the value of packs down. The fact the set isn't getting a second run says it all. This was a draftable format for all of a couple weeks.

I would honestly rather see them design a set that wasn't mean to be drafted and existed for what should be its primary purpose - making older cards more accessible for a format they are trying to push. You can still have cards that are less valuable, more niche in its usage and still actually be designed for modern accessibility in mind. That is not what they have done with Modern Masters.

Totally agree with this. I thought the set was supposed to make modern cheaper to get into. It's still too expensive as there are too many unplayable stables to open, keeping the stable pulls still too high for any budget players to get into. The only thing i really got from this set to add to my modern deck are 3 Noble Hierarchs. I should've had enough pulls by now to be making another deck or so. Not even close. Plus the fact that a lot of stables are missing in the first place. I mean I read that link of how WotC operates. Doesn't mean I still can't hate what they've done with MM15 lol. OK I'm done ranting for now!

 

[bigkrev]

The primary reason its designed to be drafted is to keep the value of packs down. The fact the set isn't getting a second run says it all. This was a draftable format for all of a couple weeks.

I would honestly rather see them design a set that wasn't mean to be drafted and existed for what should be its primary purpose - making older cards more accessible for a format they are trying to push. You can still have cards that are less valuable, more niche in its usage and still actually be designed for modern accessibility in mind. That is not what they have done with Modern Masters.

By making the set draftable, they can justify including cards that have no constructed value. If you are just making a set with cards playable in Modern, can you come up with 100 commons to include that are modern playable?