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["God's Beard!"]

I gave my 2-year old niece a Travis Woo token to play with but she decided she wanted a Leyline of Sanctity instead <_<

A lot of things in Modern are pretty good.

Nothing great though :-(

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";167208997]I gave my 2-year old niece a Travis Woo token to play with but she decided she wanted a Leyline of Sanctity instead <_<



Nothing great though :-([/QUOTE]

Legacy is garbage. Just accept it.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Legacy is garbage. Just accept it.

The player pool size certainly is, but I do enjoy it. Vintage decks are a little too samey for me, as cool as they are.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";167209897]The player pool size certainly is, but I do enjoy it. Vintage decks are a little too samey for me, as cool as they are.[/QUOTE]

There's like three decks in Legacy. Its a shit format.

If you'll excuse me, I need to go buy every available Goblin Guide.

Seriously though, Goblin Guide (and Scalding Tarn/Verdant Catacombs) pretty much shows that the only way to actually lower the cost of entry into Modern/Legacy is to reprint the staple cards into Standard. Guide isn't spiking despite Burn being an obviously Tier 1 deck in Modern because people think it could get a reprint in Battle for Zendikar. I think a reprint is unlikely (imo) but you probably won't see Guide spike until the next Modern PPTQ season and if/when Guide isn't reprinted.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I wonder how much the new PPTQ format matching the Pro Tour is changing the modern prices. Months of no Standard PPTQs is probably driving a lot of grinders into the format. I'm trying to stay strong.

There's like three decks in Legacy. Its a shit format.

Just because there's 7 miracles decks in the top 32 of the last open that doesn't mean Miracles isn't a sweet deck.

 

[MjFrancis]

I'm pretty much there already, brother. Think it's time to sell off LotV, Snapcasters, my foil fetch lands, and whatever else I can scrounge up that's worth $20+. So tired of dropping a hundred dollars or more every time I want to build or update a deck. I'll still do drafts and pre releases but whatever.

Lately I've been playing Vintage proxy decks almost exclusively. Such a fun format, it's a shame how expensive it is. But hey, laser printed proxies look pretty nice and are just fine with friends!

I own a Liliana, two Snapcasters, a Huntmaster, an Olivia, eight Deceiver Exarchs and so on - I'm still pissed about these price spikes.

I have two Innistrad block cubes that I've about finished (just need sleeves really), I think I'll just mess around with those for a while until this madness sorts itself out. Maybe find a day to go through my collection and thin it out and step back from the market for a while. It's too crazy right now.

 

[Jhriad]

Seriously though, Goblin Guide (and Scalding Tarn/Verdant Catacombs) pretty much shows that the only way to actually lower the cost of entry into Modern/Legacy is to reprint the staple cards into Standard.

Or print more staples in larger quantities in the supplemental product originally created to help make Modern more accessible. Probably wouldn't hurt if they started putting more staples into their other supplemental products as well. Something like the Jace v Vraska Duel Deck with a Remand in one deck and something of equivalent value in the other. If it pushes the EV over the MSRP, so what? The prices will come down as more product is opened and it'll even out eventually. Everyone wins! Heck, make a yearly Modern Duel Deck where each deck is a budget version of a Modern deck with a few of the cards you'll need for the less budget friendly version.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Probably wouldn't hurt if they started putting more staples into their other supplemental products as well. Something like the Jace v Vraska Duel Deck with a Remand in one deck and something of equivalent value in the other. If it pushes the EV over the MSRP, so what?

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

"Well, the current form of the Duel Decks (especially the X vs Y Duel Decks) is actually a fairly brilliant way of using cards with very limited reprint equity to sell another product. "

"The problem with these cards is that they are not the type of cards that are going to sell a Modern Masters or a Conspiracy a few years down the road. Hell, some of them would have difficulty selling a Commander deck a year post-rotation. Wizards knows this, so how can they leverage the limited equity of Elsepth, Sun's Champion or Vraska, the Unseen? They wait until these cards typically hit their peak (the winter after their expert expansion printing) and then print it again in a Duel Deck. This makes players happy because they have cheaper copies of these Standard-legal planeswalkers, but it also makes Wizards happy because they are able to squeeze some more value out of a card with relatively little reprint potential. "

 

[Jhriad]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";167219869]http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

"Well, the current form of the Duel Decks (especially the X vs Y Duel Decks) is actually a fairly brilliant way of using cards with very limited reprint equity to sell another product. "

"The problem with these cards is that they are not the type of cards that are going to sell a Modern Masters or a Conspiracy a few years down the road. Hell, some of them would have difficulty selling a Commander deck a year post-rotation. Wizards knows this, so how can they leverage the limited equity of Elsepth, Sun's Champion or Vraska, the Unseen? They wait until these cards typically hit their peak (the winter after their expert expansion printing) and then print it again in a Duel Deck. This makes players happy because they have cheaper copies of these Standard-legal planeswalkers, but it also makes Wizards happy because they are able to squeeze some more value out of a card with relatively little reprint potential. "[/QUOTE]

Already read the article and that part is specifically talking about the Planeswalkers not Remand (or other Modern playable cards). Putting something of value in the Vraska side comparable to the Remand in the Jace deck would give them another slot with which to moderately print a Modern card they need to print but haven't found a way to so far.

 

[bigkrev]

Or print more staples in larger quantities in the supplemental product originally created to help make Modern more accessible. Probably wouldn't hurt if they started putting more staples into their other supplemental products as well. Something like the Jace v Vraska Duel Deck with a Remand in one deck and something of equivalent value in the other. If it pushes the EV over the MSRP, so what? The prices will come down as more product is opened and it'll even out eventually. Everyone wins! Heck, make a yearly Modern Duel Deck where each deck is a budget version of a Modern deck with a few of the cards you'll need for the less budget friendly version.

For the planeswalker decks, the value of the Walker's alone usually exceed the MSRP of the product. Sorin was worth 20 dollars even a few weeks after the Sorin vs Tibalt deck came out,, Jace was still 17 when Jace vs Vraska came out,,Elspeth was still 17 when this most recent deck hit, ect.

 

[y2dvd]

Yeah I'm just gonna build a budgeted Nivmagus Elementals combo deck. These modern staple prices are too out of range for me.

 

[ultron87]

I keep wanting to build another deck besides Affinity, but ugggh.

A store here is starting Vintage tournies with an 18 proxy limit. That kind of sounds cheaper.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah I'm just gonna build a budgeted Nivmagus Elementals combo deck. These modern staple prices are too out of range for me.

Blistercoil Storm

I keep wanting to build another deck besides Affinity, but ugggh.

A store here is starting Proxy Vintage tournies with an 18 proxy limit. That kind of sounds cheaper.

5 moxes
black lotus
4 workshops
4 wasteland

..yeah, actually pretty doable.

 

[phazedplasma]

Yeah I'm just gonna build a budgeted Nivmagus Elementals combo deck. These modern staple prices are too out of range for me.

pls post deck, i love that card

 

[Jhriad]

I'm impressed at how complete this deceiver exarch buyout is. Even LGS websites I've looked at are bone dry.

 

[FeD.nL]

Couldn't contain myself and bought a booster box FRF for 85 euros. Can't wait to get home and open the packs.

Don't know if anyone cares but here are the pulls from the box. Sorry for the phone pic.

edit: Foils are the cards beneath the 4 mythics.

 

[Matriox]

Don't know if anyone cares but here are the pulls from the box. Sorry for the phone pic.



edit: Foils are the cards beneath the 4 mythics.

Double Tasigur, nice. Boo no Ugins though

 

[Angry Grimace]

Ph.D candidate tries to program a computer to design Magic cards. We need "Fuseback" in the game. And Mointainspalk. And Tromple.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...ating-magic-cards-using-deep-recursive-neural

Hello! I'm a PhD candidate researcher in computer science who has been investigating the use of deep neural networks for classification and problem solving tasks. I saw a fun article about training a neural network on arbitrary data to generate novel sequences. For example, you force the network to read Shakespeare over and over and eventually it can write its own texts in the style of Shakespeare. I saw that and thought: hey, why not Magic cards instead of Shakespeare? So I downloaded the source code (here) and a json corpus of Magic cards (here). I decided to feed a deep neural network all of the Magic cards ever made in the hopes that it might be able to conjure up some new ones. The network was relatively simple (I can give you the details, if you'd like, but that gets technical). I would have done a more robust and complex network but it would have taken far too long to do the computations; I'm waiting on some new GPU hardware to come in to speed up the process.

Anyway, here are a few example cards produced by my network about two hours into the training process. The results produced by the recursive neural network (RNN) early on were either verbose garbage or sensible-sounding cards that did absolutely nonsensical things. Keep in mind that the RNN has no prior knowledge of what Magic even is, let alone English, so it's interesting that the results were even vaguely intelligible.

--------

Amarogge Warfos
2U
Artifact Creature - Kavu Shaman
Morph B B/B G/W (You may cast this card from your graveyard to the battlefield, you may pay [mana]1[/mana]. If an enchantment card, then put the rest of target creature card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. If exile is you sacrifice it unless you pay [mana]1[/mana][mana]g[/mana]. If you do, put a 3/1 green Soldier creature token onto the battlefield. Put it into your graveyard.)
1/1
#I'm tickled by the absurd reminder text. The RNN knows that keyword abilities often come with reminder text, but it has no idea what "morph" means, so it just makes up stuff to put there. Oh, and the morph cost has a hybrid black/black mana symbol in it.

Slidshocking Krow
U
Creature - Dragon
Tromple,Mointainspalk
4/2
#Slidshocking Krow is ridiculously overpowered. A 4/2 for 1? In blue? With Mointainspalk AND Tromple? I see power creep is alive and well.

Grirerer Knishing
4G
Instant - Arcane
Exile target creature you control.
#The price is a little steep on this one, but maybe it's worth it for the synergy with other Arcane spells...

Fransunn's Ent
1B
Sorcery
Counter target spell with five toughness 2 or greater.
#Almost a meaningful conditional counterspell. Almost, but not quite.

Adiswen Agenter
1U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, sacrifice a white Zombie creature.
#Although very bizarre, it is a "legal" card.

Skengi Hellldadietsn
1BU
Creature - Zombie
[mana]{T}[/mana]: Add G to your mana pool. If you do, put a -1/-1 counter on Skengi Hellldadietsn.
3/4
#Notice that it picked a creature type that actually matched the colors.

--------

I decided to let the training process continue over night. When I came back, I found that the text was starting to make a little more sense (not always, but more so than before). I noticed that the network, now more fully trained, could generate meaningful, novel cards. However, it also had a knack for generating profoundly useless cards. Here are a few snippets from the output:

* When $THIS enters the battlefield, each creature you control loses trample until end of turn.
* Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, you may tap two untapped Mountains you control.
* [mana]3[/mana], [mana]{T}[/mana] : Add [mana]2[/mana] to your mana pool.
* Legendary creatures can't attack unless its controller pays [mana]2[/mana] for each Zombie you control.

Other times it would start with an idea, like giving a creature kicker, but then forget about having a "if kicked" clause, or it could have a card with X in the mana cost but then deciding to do nothing with the X. Also, the network gets planeswalkers confused with level up creatures (admittedly they do look very similar), which often results in messy combinations of the two. For planeswalkers, the problem is that, unlike run-of-the-mill creatures, they are few and far between, so there aren't many examples for the network to learn from. In any case, here are some of the typical examples I found the network churning out this morning:

--------

Tenjer Desineer
1
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature has fuseback.
Equip [mana]1[/mana]
#The RNN likes to make up new keywords. This one is a portmanteau of flashback and fuse. What it does for a creature, who knows? The RNN certainly has no idea.

Gravimite
1 G/W G/W
Creature - Dryad
[mana]1[/mana][mana]{G/W}[/mana]: Regenerate $THIS.
When Gravimite enters the battlefield, draw a card.
2/3
#I think this is a reinterpretation of Carven Caryatid.

Light of the Bild
2WW
Creature - Spirit
Flying
Whenever Light of the Bild blocks, you may put a 1/1 green Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
2/2

Horror
[mana]b[/mana]
Horror deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
#A colorshifted Lightning Bolt. I find the name to be simple and evocative!

Mided Hied Parira's Scepter
2
Artifact
3, T: Put a 1/1 white Advisor creature token onto the battlefield.

Shring the Artist
2BB
Legendary Creature - Cat
Flying
Whenever you cast a spell, you may return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
2/2

--------

In conclusion, I've learned quite a bit from this process. Originally, I designed the network to avoid overfitting because I feared it would generate cards that were mere carbon copies of the ones it had seen. However, I made the network too conservative and as a result it's unwilling to experiment with multi-part abilities like kicker. It's also worth exploring whether I can improve training on scarcely seen cards like planeswalkers, planes, schemes, etc. With any luck, I should be able to come up with a generative model for Magic cards that produces more robust and complex output.

Let me know what you think!

 

[The Technomancer]

Holy shit

3,{T}: Add 2 to your mana pool.

I think this is my favorite. There's something about its simplicity

 

[God Dayumm]

Ph.D candidate tries to program a computer to design Magic cards. We need "Fuseback" in the game. And Mointainspalk. And Tromple.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...ating-magic-cards-using-deep-recursive-neural

Amazing. This makes me wonder what kind of computations the guys at Wizards perform to make the game balanced

 

[ultron87]

That's really cool. I wonder what function he used to evaluate whether a card was "good" or not, since it clearly had some mechanic to improve.

 

[Matriox]

Holy shit



I think this is my favorite. There's something about its simplicity

Combo to net 1 mana. GG

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh my god there's more. Laughing this hard hurts

Arnoftuee
UUB
Instant
You may pay 2.

Okay, since you asked, I have some new cards for you.

Here are some more samples from one hour into the training process:

---------
Ekemreress Doetlo
3G
Creature - Nightxolk
Flying
X, T: Target creature or player, if it gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
Beash (You may put a goren creatures this combat.)
As Ekemreress Doetlo enters the battlefield, you may cast it fer exile Ekemreress Doetlo.
Draw a card
Daozfy 1B (Hound by frames a card in put all combat damage you control gains flying as long as you control with houdke until end of turn.)
1/3

Styryyroved Sturtiop
4B
Legendary Creature - Elf
R: Gain lands you control:" Scary a Wall creature cae extep to each non-Herfolk.
0/1

Arnoftuee
UUB
Instant
You may pay 2.

Teres Sarde
1GGB
Instant
Prevent the next end step.
Exile a charge counter on Teres Sarde.

Scold, you quiunt
2
Artifact - Equipment
Horpernt a spell's power is on the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it.
Suthas (Whenever Scold, you quiunt becomes a drawed a creature with flying onto the battlefield.)
---------

And then here are some from 5 hours into the training process:

---------

Handso
2U
Counter target spell. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Handso.

Inaader Cyclion
4B
Creature Creature - Spirit
G, sacrifice a creature: You gain life equal to its converted mana cost 4 or less from your graveyard to your hand.
2/2

Hendtance Ibunder
1UU
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature gets +3/+3.
R: Hendtance Ibunder gets +3/+1 and has protection from red only as a sorcery.

---------

And finally here are some from 23 hours into the training process:

---------

Khrat Sellglade
2WW
Creature - Angel
Vigilance
At the beginning of your upkeep, if there are no time counters on it, you may look at the top card of your library until you reveal a creature card from among them, then put that card on the bottom of your library in any order.
3/3

Legan of Echince
7GG
Creature - Treefolk Avatar
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
6/5

Sings of Junay
3RG
Instant - Arcane
Each player sacrifices a land. (Damage dealt by the creature as though it doesn't gain have double strike.)

Otal of Shymong
1BBB
Creature - Drake
Dodaro
Reach
A creature you control gains flying, flying.
6/6
#No idea what Dodaro is, must be a keyword ability.

Pirefila Shield
1B
Creature - Elgren
Haste
When Pirefila Shield leaves the battlefield, sacrifice it and each opponent discards a card.
1/1

Slethward Bestroh
2
Artifact
W: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.

Anaboth Cubblue
3
Artifact
2,T: Target land becomes a 4/4 white Spirit creature with flying until end of turn.

Roon War Medoma
G
Instant
Name a card. You gain 1 life.

Blood Rhast
1G
Creature - Goblin Shaman
3G: Blood Rhast gains "Sacrifice a land: Blood Rhast deals 3 damage to target player."
2/2

Rakile Volan
B
Creature - Human Knight
Whenever Rakile Volan blocks or becomes blocked, you may pay 1B. If you do, you gain 2 life.
1/1

Rilatort Treat
Land
T: Add WUWG to your mana pool.
#The RNN knows lands make mana, so this seems like a perfectly acceptable card to it.

Tingras Illza
R
Creature - Human Wizard
U, T: Target creature you control gets +3/+2 for each eldrue counter on Tingras Illza. Untap Tingras Illza.
1/1
#Lord have mercy this would be a broken card. Fortunately, it has no way of actually generating eldrue counters.

Blancho Ogure
4W
Creature - Spidin Druid
Creatures doesn't untap during your upkeep, if it's tied by creatures it's blocking as long as you do, for each creature with power 2 or less from his or her graveyard, where X is the divight converted mana cost X or less life, where X is the number of Jells on the battlefield tapped.
2/2
#Sometimes, even the fully trained RNN just spits out noise. But it only happens very rarely.

 

[acheron_xl]

The learning is fascinating. Give it a year and see what happens.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/ar...ne-2015-magic-online-event-updates-2015-06-08

This article seems to say mtgo flashback drafts are turning into phantom only and cube drafts no longer pay out in product but just phantom points. Surprised there's no outrage yet.

 

[Haly]

Would build eldrue.dec

 

[Kwixotik]

"Name a card. You gain one life." lol

 

[Haly]

Would you be breaking the rules if you named a nonexistent card?

 

[FeD.nL]

Double Tasigur, nice. Boo no Ugins though

Had some slight hope for Ugin but still happy with the box. Had a great time opening it with my gf and I guess the pulls could have been worse.

 

[Angry Grimace]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/ar...ne-2015-magic-online-event-updates-2015-06-08

This article seems to say mtgo flashback drafts are turning into phantom only and cube drafts no longer pay out in product but just phantom points. Surprised there's no outrage yet.

They aren't. They're just not running flashback drafts at the same time as Holiday Cube because it cuts into profits to run multiple event types.

 

[OnPoint]

"Name a card. You gain one life." lol

I lol'd hard at that.

 

[Matriox]

Had some slight hope for Ugin but still happy with the box. Had a great time opening it with my gf and I guess the pulls could have been worse.

I packed open a couple boxes and I didn't get an ugin lol, better boxes that I got.

 

[platypotamus]

I never hear anyone else talk about CardKingdom, but I've been buying from them for almost ten years and always liked them

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";167134961]I love Cardkingdom. They ship faster than anybody in my experience and their card search engine is my favorite. When I'm building a deck I use them to buy a bulk of the commons/uncommons etc all at once.[/QUOTE]

Pretty sweet being able to walk there from my house!

Pirefila Shield
1B
Creature - Elgren
Haste
When Pirefila Shield leaves the battlefield, sacrifice it and each opponent discards a card.
1/1

Would put in cube

 

[Jhriad]

Man do I feel terrible seeing Huntmaster of the Fells at it's current price. I was looking at picking up a playset a couple days ago alongside a playset of Kitchen Finks and so I could potentially run this list. I balked at paying for the set of Geist so I was trying to figure out how I would rework the deck without Geist before I decided if I wanted to invest the necessary money for a set of Finks and Huntmaster. I think that decision has been made for me.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Horror
[mana]b[/mana]
Horror deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

zomg, wizards pls!

Teres Sarde
1GGB
Instant
Prevent the next end step.

"During your end step, I'll..."

"No you won't, bitch." *slams Terres Sarde*

Yep, this checks out.

 

[kirblar]

Huntmaster and Geist were both 15-20 back in their Standard days. Heavy play in Modern will push either way above that.

 

[Angry Grimace]

 

[red13th]

lol those cards.
I love Roon War Medoma

 

[Joe Molotov]

I would never not name City of Ass.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I really want to make a Deep Neural Network cube now.

 

[GoutPatrol]

There's like three decks in Legacy. Its a shit format.

If you'll excuse me, I need to go buy every available Goblin Guide.

Seriously though, Goblin Guide (and Scalding Tarn/Verdant Catacombs) pretty much shows that the only way to actually lower the cost of entry into Modern/Legacy is to reprint the staple cards into Standard. Guide isn't spiking despite Burn being an obviously Tier 1 deck in Modern because people think it could get a reprint in Battle for Zendikar. I think a reprint is unlikely (imo) but you probably won't see Guide spike until the next Modern PPTQ season and if/when Guide isn't reprinted.

They are not gonna reprint Guide when they already have a 2/2 for R in standard.

I just hope nothing in Bogles gets snatched up by the spec fairy in the next month. I'm only about a dozen cards short (not including Horizon Canopies because that is a bridge too far.) I'm gonna go to Japan and plan on finishing the deck at Hareruya.

 

[Yeef]

I'm at work and it's hard to keep a straight face while reading those cards. Phenomenal!

 

[Angry Grimace]

They are not gonna reprint Guide when they already have a 2/2 for R in standard.

I just hope nothing in Bogles gets snatched up by the spec fairy in the next month. I'm only about a dozen cards short (not including Horizon Canopies because that is a bridge too far.) I'm gonna go to Japan and plan on finishing the deck at Hareruya.

I don't think so either. but that's also why Guide is 25 bucks instead of 50.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Rilatort Treat
Land
T: Add WUWG to your mana pool.

What a treat indeed.

I'm in muthafucking tears over here, omg my stomach hurts so bad guys XD

 

["God's Beard!"]

Wow, Cockatrice is great. I'm HeebyGB if anybody wants to play at some point.

 

[OnPoint]

Yep, this checks out.

Omg lol

Where are you guys making these with the new borders

 

[Etrian Oddity]

They're from the MtGSalvation thread.

Sorcered Archer
1W
Creature — Insect
U: Scring of Chaos of Bodyguard, reacheant deals damage to that player equal to your library. Put one of them for couble seach type on top of its owner's library.
2/1

holy shit XD

 

[The Technomancer]

I want to deal damage equal to my library

 

[Jhriad]

Congratulations to Jhriad, send me a PM of where you'd like me to send these sleeves.

Just wanted to say that I got these in and they're great! Thanks again! I absolutely love the feel and shuffle with them but they are noticeably less transparent than their Hyper Matte counterparts and I'm not sure how much that would bother me over time. I think I'll give these a go at the first Origins prerelease to see how I like them in action.

Huntmaster and Geist were both 15-20 back in their Standard days. Heavy play in Modern will push either way above that.

I assume Huntmaster being double-sided makes it significantly less likely to have a reprint as well. Is that a fair assessment?

 

[inthrall]

Magmate Dragon
1BB
Creature — Dragon
Flying
1W: At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a color.
Magmate Dragon enters the battlefield under that way.
2/2

Removing a colour sounds fun

Flow of Mountains
1W
Creature — Goblin Shaman
2W, T: Reveal the top card of your library.
G: Flow of Mountains adds 2 to your mana pool.

I like this card, despite the obviously overpowered second ability