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[SigmasonicX]

Thought about the idea of keywording mill, when I realized that it may be better to give a general name to "put into your graveyard", especially since there are mill cards that don't directly put cards from the library into the graveyard. "Discard" would be the ideal term, but alas. Using "dispose of":

Tome Scour
Target player puts the top five cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
vs.
Target player disposes of the top five cards of his or her library.

Commune with the Gods
Reveal the top five cards of your library. You may put a creature or enchantment card from among them into your hand. Put the rest into your graveyard.
vs.
Reveal the top five cards of your library. You may put a creature or enchantment card from among them into your hand. Dispose of the rest.

Mind Grind
Each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals X land cards, then puts all cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard. X can't be 0.
vs.
Each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals X land cards, then disposes of all cards revealed this way. X can't be 0.

 

[Yeef]

Thought about the idea of keywording mill, when I realized that it may be better to give a general name to "put into your graveyard", especially since there are mill cards that don't directly put cards from the library into the graveyard. "Discard" would be the ideal term, but alas. Using "dispose of":

Tome Scour
Target player puts the top five cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
vs.
Target player disposes of the top five cards of his or her library.

I don't really see the point. It doesn't save enough text space to make a big difference and it creates a new vocabulary word that players need to learn. In fact, because of reminder text, it'd probably just make the text take up more space.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Like "die", I don't think this would need reminder text. I imagine the thought process for a player first encountering it would be, "Dispose of? Like throw away? So I guess I put it in the discard pile then."

 

[Haly]

How about "bury". Amirite guys.

 

[acheron_xl]

If there's vocabulary created around milling, I think it should be something that is explained in reminder text. That way it's eventually learned by the players, and can be left off of higher rarity cards a couple years after introduction.

 

[OnPoint]

Magic story is so dumb. I can't begin to fathom why anyone gives a shit about it. But then I have scarcely a Vorthos bone in my body. I'm all Johnny-Melvin. Which makes the bullshit world-building I've been doing in my set hilariously awkward.

Because it opens up new space for unique card design? Because the fiction is interesting to some people? Because new story beats means new characters? New characters means new cards? New cards means the game doesn't stagnate and die? Without the frame of fiction Magic doesn't exist. No need to be so repugnant -- just ignore and stay away from the conversation that involved it.

 

[acheron_xl]

Because it opens up new space for unique card design? Because the fiction is interesting to some people? Because new story beats means new characters? New characters means new cards? New cards means the game doesn't stagnate and die? Without the frame of fiction Magic doesn't exist. No need to be so repugnant -- just ignore and stay away from the conversation that involved it.

Oh, I totally get it. Having a story to hang a set around really gives cards a sense of purpose. I'm not arguing there. I just wonder why people give it any shits as a matter of fiction.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I wasn't a fan of having the Khans cultures/races all sync up 1:1 with the real world to the degree they did. But the counter to that is that you risk whitewashing them all if you do the "rainbow-ization" badly, so there's potential issues in either direction.

Just put whoever fits in with the aesthetic your concept team built. Khans block had a lot of pandering towards spotlight social issues which is fine. It sells. But I agree that pushing it too hard can become transparent and less fantasy than they probably want to be.

 

[WanderingWind]

Oh, I totally get it. Having a story to hang a set around really gives cards a sense of purpose. I'm not arguing there. I just wonder why people give it any shits as a matter of fiction.

Which is your favorite Doctor?

 

[acheron_xl]

Which is your favorite Doctor?

Tom Baker is an exquisite piece of design and top-down flavor. Well balanced. And reprinted often!

Real talk, though, I wish they'd revisit Jamuraa, or at least take some cues from it. The art direction and feel of Mirage was really sophisticated, and not nearly as 'YA fantasy' as they've leaned into lately. Don't want to threadshit too badly.

 

[WanderingWind]

Eh, for some reason people reacted poorly to whimsy, so everything has to be super serious now. Of course, this means adding angst by the truckload. Angst is the realm in which all young adults revel. Maybe one day we'll get some expansion, but it's going to be a while.

 

[OnPoint]

Oh, I totally get it. Having a story to hang a set around really gives cards a sense of purpose. I'm not arguing there. I just wonder why people give it any shits as a matter of fiction.

Why does anyone care about any fiction if we're going to go down that route? I don't understand why you not liking it means no one can.

Tom Baker is an exquisite piece of design and top-down flavor. Well balanced. And reprinted often!

Real talk, though, I wish they'd revisit Jamuraa, or at least take some cues from it. The art direction and feel of Mirage was really sophisticated, and not nearly as 'YA fantasy' as they've leaned into lately. Don't want to threadshit too badly.

I'd love a more serious Magic story. But I don't think the market is demanding that.

 

[acheron_xl]

I'd love a more serious Magic story. But I don't think the market is demanding that.

Make a supplemental product. Like the opposite of Unglued. I love whimsy in the right places, but I'd like to see them try something else for a change. Get some real impressionistic art and everything. Magic with some class. I'd love it, and I bet there's plenty of old kitchen table Magic players that would dig it too. Sell the set for stupid prices because the target market has money. Like a Commander + From the Vaults.

 

[OnPoint]

Make a supplemental product. Like the opposite of Unglued. I love whimsy in the right places, but I'd like to see them try something else for a change. Get some real impressionistic art and everything. Magic with some class. I'd love it, and I bet there's plenty of old kitchen table Magic players that would dig it too.

I'd buy the shit out of it. They could have went that route with Conspiracy, thematically. Would have fit really nicely.

But they want those supplemental products to sell well, not just sell to a segment of the player base. Why spend all that time making a product if only a fraction of your base will be interested? I would love it, but it doesn't really fall in line with the way they do business.

To be honest I don't love the fiction of Magic all that much. But it's what we've got. So I just kind of go with it.

 

[The Technomancer]

I love love love Magic world building. It's straight up some if the best fantasy world building going on now. Period

The story proper...I have an appreciation for. I admire how they are actually able to make players care (to the point that it's a common topic of conversation) even if I don't particularly get invested in it myself

 

["God's Beard!"]

My Reanimator deck is the most fun of any of my decks, but I just realized that I have zero ways to answer Leyline of the Void lol

I did beat a guy by hardcasting Griselbrand once because he mulliganned to 4 to hit the leyline and didn't do anything.

Miracles can also be an annoying matchup. I don't know if I need 4 Thoughtseize, maybe I'll troll people by putting in a set of Delvers and Hypnotic Specters

 

[darkside31337]

Modern price spikes, yikes I'm glad I don't play/want to play Modern.

god those are nuts. snapcaster is really crazy.

not sure how wizards could even try to solve that outside of going outside of distributors altogether and keeping old sets in constant print in limited quantities to sell online. would stop $80 rares at least. doubt they even care - modern masters being proof of that.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I feel bad if you just got into Magic, but literally every single person in this thread has been saying "BUY SNAPCASTER IT IS GOING TO GO UP" since Innistrad rotated.

 

[OnPoint]

I feel bad if you just got into Magic, but literally every single person in this thread has been saying "BUY SNAPCASTER IT IS GOING TO GO UP" since Innistrad rotated.

Yup. That was one of the surest-bet increases I've ever seen.

 

[kirblar]

Yearly MM seems like a potential inevitability.

 

[inthrall]

Yearly MM seems like a potential inevitability.

Or just some more standard reprints of strong cards. The two block rotation means we could potentially see them in play for less time, making strong cards only stick around for a year (if printed in the second half of the block)

 

[kirblar]

Snapcaster, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf- theres just a bunch of cards you don't want to reprint in Standard.

Plus the amount of necessary reprints is just growing and growing over time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

My guess is that their strategy for standard reprints is going to be aggressively going after the lands because they're never particularly problematic and are a serious money sink for modern.

 

[aidan]

Snapcaster, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf- theres just a bunch of cards you don't want to reprint in Standard.

Plus the amount of necessary reprints is just growing and growing over time.

There are so many supplemental products these days that not wanting something in Standard should no longer be an excuse for not re-printing it. Start putting modern staples in clash packs or event decks, just get them out there. I think the threat that any card could be re-printed at any time would cause a cooldown on these crazy spikes. The only reason Snapcaster is doing what it's doing is because we know it won't be reprinted for at least two year (in MM2015).

 

[kirblar]

There are so many supplemental products these days that not wanting something in Standard should no longer be an excuse for not re-printing it. Start putting modern staples in clash packs or event decks, just get them out there. I think the threat that any card could be re-printed at any time would cause a cooldown on these crazy spikes. The only reason Snapcaster is doing what it's doing is because we know it won't be reprinted for at least two year (in MM2015).

The issue is the 19.99->34.99 price point. They don't like pre-con decks selling over MSRP. The high-value cards have to be either promo-ized or put in an MM set, and there's just not enough space in MMX anymore w/ a 2 year cycle.

 

[Jhriad]

I feel bad if you just got into Magic, but literally every single person in this thread has been saying "BUY SNAPCASTER IT IS GOING TO GO UP" since Innistrad rotated.

I got into Magic at the release of Khans, does that count? Thankfully I bought a playset of Snapcasters for $60 off a guy at my LGS a while back. Of course with the prices being speculated to shit I've gone from "Modern seems like a perfect fit for me. Maybe I should get into it." to "Fuck this. Fuck WOTC. Fuck." Those Snapcasters are now basically just cardboard piggy banks I'm waiting to cash out of instead of ever using. It's sad when any game makes Warhammer 40k look reasonably priced and Magic is pretty much at that point.

The issue is the 19.99->34.99 price point. They don't like pre-con decks selling over MSRP.

Those would be available at Walmart, Target, etc. and they would be far less likely to price their products according to the cards in the set.

 

[aidan]

The issue is the 19.99->34.99 price point. They don't like pre-con decks selling over MSRP. The high-value cards have to be either promo-ized or put in an MM set, and there's just not enough space in MMX anymore w/ a 2 year cycle.

Those would be available at Walmart, Target, etc. and they would be far less likely to price their products according to the cards in the set.

Yeah. I feel like that point is only valid if WotC is interested in maintaining the status quo. At some point the massive increase in playerbase needs to be addressed, and if they're not willing to put high power cards through Standard, printing surefire staples in $20-30 box sets with unlimited printings and distribution through big box stores would immediately take the wind out of speculators' sails and lower the barrier for entry into modern.

 

[kirblar]

Those would be available at Walmart, Target, etc. and they would be far less likely to price their products according to the cards in the set.

This is actually the issue. Players will just swarm and buy them up to break apart for singles or resell, taking them off the sales floor. They want them there and available to the casual markets.

 

[aidan]

This is actually the issue. Players will just swarm and buy them up to break apart for singles or resell, taking them off the sales floor.

Thus causing the price of the cards to drop on the secondary market?

 

[kirblar]

Thus causing the price of the cards to drop on the secondary market?

That's not really something they've been actively concerned about on a very large scale (but it really needs to start being one - the growth is great but is putting enormous pressure in bad places.)

I don't think they're wrong on this one though- having those products available to players without access to a game store or to parents buying gifts is important.

 

[Jhriad]

That's not really something they've been actively concerned about on a very large scale (but it really needs to start being one - the growth is great but is putting enormous pressure in bad places.)

I don't think they're wrong on this one though- having those products available to players without access to a game store or to parents buying gifts is important.

If the demand is there then those big box stores will just reorder the product and their orders for subsequent products in that line will probably be larger.

 

[kirblar]

If the demand is there then those big box stores will just reorder the product and their orders for subsequent products in that line will probably be larger.

That's not how it works with them. They don't really get refills.

 

[Jhriad]

That's not how it works with them. They don't really get refills.

I don't see any reason why it couldn't work that way. The argument your making is that WOTC wants their products sitting on the shelves unsold so that some rando can once in a blue moon walk up and find product there. That's not exactly a sound business plan. They've got the Intro Decks for that, their other supplemental products like Duel Decks (or a reasonably priced, yearly Modern Event deck) could serve the additional purpose of fixing supply shortages with cards they find hard to reprint elsewhere.

 

[kirblar]

I don't see any reason why it couldn't work that way. The argument your making is that WOTC wants their products sitting on the shelves unsold so that some rando can once in a blue moon walk up and find product there. That's not exactly a sound business plan. They've got the Intro Decks for that, their other supplemental products like Duel Decks (or a reasonably priced, yearly Modern Event deck) could serve the additional purpose of fixing supply shortages with cards they find hard to reprint elsewhere.

They want them sold to the target audience to help expand the game. (no pun intended.) They don't want them sold to hardcore players who are trying to leverage them for profit.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I lived the dream at Draft. On Turn 3 swung for 8 damage with Assform, Shape the Sands, and that 1/3 bird

Assform is love, Assform is life.

 

[Jhriad]

On a different note, does Valor in Akros seem pretty good in R/W Tokens/Aggro to anyone else or am I smoking crack? Rabblemaster giving your creatures +1/+1 every turn seems pretty nifty.

 

[Infinite Stars]

On a different note, does Valor in Akros seem pretty good in R/W Tokens/Aggro to anyone else or am I smoking crack? Rabblemaster giving your creatures +1/+1 every turn seems pretty nifty.

I saw that and I'm just imagining someone using Nykthos+Secure The Wastes+ This in some Mono White devotion deck. Maybe splashing green for Trample in some form.

 

[Jhriad]

I saw that and I'm just imagining someone using Nykthos+Secure The Wastes+ This in some Mono White devotion deck. Maybe splashing green for Trample in some form.

Forgot about Secure the Wastes. That'd be a crazy blowout play when someone attacked you.

 

[MjFrancis]

Yeah, I'm screwed when it comes to Snapcaster. Totally my fault, too. Gave my LGS owner the tip to hold on to them when they jumped to $50 and he was able to pull off the playsets he had on eBay for $180. I asked if I could buy two off of him and he said if he got two more in he would give me a deal on them since he didn't want to break his playsets.

He never got those ones in.

See, I was greedy because he usually sells to me at 15%-20% less than eBay prices because it's the same to him - that's about how much he pays in fees and shipping anyways. I bet that he would get more in time and that I'd get $50 Snapcasters for $40. I thought that $30 - $50 jump was the only price hike. The cheapskate in me couldn't resist the prospect of a deal, why would I buy them at $50?

As it sits I have two sealed boxes of Innistrad. Real tempting to see if a couple are in there, but I already know that is a bad prospect.

 

[Matriox]

http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/79453
Ended up going 4-0 for first at fnm, Dat mana base.. Pretty fun deck though.

 

[Infinite Stars]

If there is One deck I hate beyond belief with my deck it is Mono Red. Every other deck I can at least have fun playing, but Every time with Mono red I get completely blown out.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If there is One deck I hate beyond belief with my deck it is Mono Red. Every other deck I can at least have fun playing, but Every time with Mono red I get completely blown out.

What do you play?

 

[keeblerdrow]

Naya Dragons is ridiculously powerful. I was rocking everyone with it tonight even with subbing in 2 Mastery of the Unseen for 2 missing DLord Dromokas. And running with Dromoka's Command in the main in place of the Valorous Stances is the right call. Saved my ass when I had to deal with an Ensoul Artifact deck and a Whip deck.

 

[charlequin]

Kaladesh is clearly being set up as a plane that an upcoming block will focus on, what with it being two highly requested things (steampunk and India), so I would imagine we'll get a dark-skinned planeswalker from there when that block comes.

Yeah, the real problem is that their accretive design style led them down a kind of weird path to this spot (Jaya is an Indian name, so let's make the new replacement Jaya have an Indian name too! Oh, but we didn't do a good job defining the character so everyone draws her as white! Ah but now we need to create her origin plane, so let's take after her name! etc. etc.) If they'd done this setting in a block, I don't think some white people would be upsetting the way it comes off when they're trying to squeeze it in as 1/10th of this set and it's just emphasizing how

I wasn't a fan of having the Khans cultures/races all sync up 1:1 with the real world to the degree they did. But the counter to that is that you risk whitewashing them all if you do the "rainbow-ization" badly, so there's potential issues in either direction.

I mean, better Khans (which gets a bit close in the setting material but at least generally just shows people with a variety of Asian phenotypes doing stuff) than Kamigawa (with its absurd Orientalist creature types.)

Magic story is so dumb. I can't begin to fathom why anyone gives a shit about it.

The Magic creative team is doing the single best fantasy world building of anyone (probably because they have the single biggest budget for it) and they've shaved the story down from absurd, rambly novels that have no relation to anything, down to some website stories you can read in 15 minutes that just exist to support the flavor elements already in the sets.

Yearly MM seems like a potential inevitability.

Biannually with more supplemental and standard reprints would be my guess.

 

[Transhuman]

Only 20

Spoiler

thousand

more until the playset is finished.

 

[Infinite Stars]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";167589303]What do you play?[/QUOTE]
Green White.. Uh, how to put this: Low range. Like, it sounds stupid, but Midrange to me signifies games lasting more then 7-8 land drops each. My deck isn't Aggro, but I wouldn't classify it as Midrange because Midrange is more about a strong mid game. I'm usually finishing my games on my 5th to 6th turn. Aggro to me is turn 5 at Max, Midrange to feels like turn 7-8, but I land between those.
The general theme is White Weenie usually supplemented by Counters/Green for protection.

I could run CoCo(I had a playset) but Coco's 5 mana to me just doesn't work with my deck. In my limited play experience, I've had no issues beating Midrange provided I board right(as a general thing with this deck, I've gone 3/1 against Mid range in terms of rounds), I'm just low enough average CMC wise to beat control provided I get decent land drops(I'm 2/1 against control in FNM matchups as my) but it's Aggro that my deck folds under(0/3).

 

[Angry Grimace]

Biannually with more supplemental and standard reprints would be my guess.

Ahem, "biennially"

 

[acheron_xl]

The Magic creative team is doing the single best fantasy world building of anyone (probably because they have the single biggest budget for it) and they've shaved the story down from absurd, rambly novels that have no relation to anything, down to some website stories you can read in 15 minutes that just exist to support the flavor elements already in the sets.

Their world building is great, I give you that.

 

[WanderingWind]

I wonder how WotC giving further advance notice on supplementary products would affect prices. Buyouts based entirely on non-reprint speculation would be curbed to some degree if WotC announced that MM was an annual release for the foreseeable future. We'd obviously still have spikes due to modern season, but we would likely not see things like what happened with Blood Moon.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Green White.. Uh, how to put this: Low range. Like, it sounds stupid, but Midrange to me signifies games lasting more then 7-8 land drops each. My deck isn't Aggro, but I wouldn't classify it as Midrange because Midrange is more about a strong mid game. I'm usually finishing my games on my 5th to 6th turn. Aggro to me is turn 5 at Max, Midrange to feels like turn 7-8, but I land between those.
The general theme is White Weenie usually supplemented by Counters/Green for protection.

I could run CoCo(I had a playset) but Coco's 5 mana to me just doesn't work with my deck. In my limited play experience, I've had no issues beating Midrange provided I board right(as a general thing with this deck, I've gone 3/1 against Mid range in terms of rounds), I'm just low enough average CMC wise to beat control provided I get decent land drops(I'm 2/1 against control in FNM matchups as my) but it's Aggro that my deck folds under(0/3).

Couldn't you just run like 4 Arashin Cleric and a Surge of Righteousness or two in your sideboard and call it a wrap?