Support NeoGAF

[Crocodile]

I mean, I guess if "casual constructed" is a format you care about, every card is probably good.

I guess Day's Undoing is good in Modern Faeries (every spell in the deck other than Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize is a Flash card or an instant)

I mean that's not even slightly true. There's a difference between a card that has a clear purpose, is a powerful build-around and/or is efficiently costed for what it does but has no chance of doing anything in a tournament setting (Doubling Season is like the poster child for that type of card) and a card that does nothing and has no purpose except to piss you off by existing like Blessed Incarnation or "Random Fatty X that is worse than 3513513 other random fatties".

That being said, I want to open PWs and Languishes in my booster packs - but I can at least appreciate that cards like Conjuring and Remedy exist.

 

[WanderingWind]

It's bulk. And they give the good ones to Evan anyway.

You're probably right, but price history has been kind to splashable blue card draw. If it's 5 bucks or so, I won't feel too bad if it bottoms out at dollar rare status. At that price range, it's low risk, high potential for reward.

 

[Jhriad]

I'm guessing they will have a spell that gives renown, but it won't be worth playing for this.

They could have cheap spells that give Menace. That'd be one way to activate Renown more frequently. It still seems like a stupid keyword that I hope dies a quick death and never shows up in another set.

 

[darkside31337]

Some really awesome cards today, best day of previews by far. Lots of Johnny stuff. Dark Petition is rad and has a hilarious interaction with Pyromancer Ascension among some other stuff. And Starfield of Nyx is just <3. Such a cool card, my favorite card in the set so far.

Hierarch seems really good but not in the way a traditional mana dork is good. Seems like the kind of card you want in an aggressive deck and not one to ramp with.

Fuck Bounding Krasis though. Also

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean that's not even slightly true. There's a difference between a card that has a clear purpose, is a powerful build-around and/or is efficiently costed for what it does but has no chance of doing anything in a tournament setting (Doubling Season is like the poster child for that type of card) and a card that does nothing and has no purpose except to piss you off by existing like Blessed Incarnation or "Random Fatty X that is worse than 3513513 other random fatties".

That being said, I want to open PWs and Languishes in my booster packs - but I can at least appreciate that cards like Conjuring and Remedy exist.

Saying a card is good in "casual constructed" is an arbitrary way of judging cards to begin with, and a lot of cards have unique effects that aren't calculated to ever be good.

False Cure and Twin effects aren't even unique, or good outside of Splinter Twin/Kiki themselves.

 

[Yeef]

Day's Undoing is a terrible name.

Day's Undoing is actually a great name, based on the lore of Lorwyn.

Lorwyn and Shadowmoor are the same plane. There's no night on Lorwyn and no day on Shadowmoor. Every 100 years Oona would would take (or replace) the sun in the sky to change the plane from one into the other. So going from Lorwyn to Shadowmoor is the Day's Undoing.

I do feel like the art is backwards though; outside the game should be sunny and inside should be dark.

 

[Crocodile]

Saying a card is good in "casual constructed" is an arbitrary way of judging cards to begin with, and a lot of cards have unique effects that aren't calculated to ever be good.

False Cure and Twin effects aren't even unique, or good outside of Splinter Twin/Kiki themselves.

Tragic Remedy, to my knowledge, is the only one of the "False Cure" effects that is both permanent AND doesn't negatively affect you. After Kiki-Jiki and Splinter Twin, Flameshadow Conjuring looks to be the most efficient way to repeatably copy creatures in Red. I've seen decks built around those effects put to good use within the context of both casual 60 card constructed and EDH. I know these effects are popular and that these cards are costed in such a way to be actually within the realm of playability. Even if I don't want them, I can see the appeal and they are costed/designed in a way as to not be embarrassing (with the caveat that they will never touch a tournament setting and do well). Putting aside the amount of subjectivity that goes into most card evaluations I'm not sure what you are arguing. You don't have to like them but you can at least recognize that for their target audience they are actively good cards. Or do you think they are unplayable under any circumstance (which is a vantage point you can take but I feel that requires some explanation then)?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Tragic Remedy, to my knowledge, is the only one of the "False Cure" effects that is both permanent AND doesn't negatively affect you. After Kiki-Jiki and Splinter Twin, Flameshadow Conjuring looks to be the most efficient way to repeatably copy creatures in Red. I've seen decks built around those effects put to good use within the context of both casual 60 card constructed and EDH. I know these effects are popular and that these cards are costed in such a way to be actually within the realm of playability. Even if I don't want them, I can see the appeal and they are costed/designed in a way as to not be embarrassing (with the caveat that they will never touch a tournament setting and do well). Putting aside the amount of subjectivity that goes into most card evaluations I'm not sure what you are arguing. You don't have to like them but you can at least recognize that for their target audience they are actively good cards. Or do you think they are unplayable under any circumstance (which is a vantage point you can take but I feel that requires some explanation then)?

I really don't see the point of this. It's arguing for the sake of arguing.

By that logic, every card ever made is good in some situation or deck. These cards aren't useful in any format we normally talk about. I don't even think these are good in EDH either (Starfield, I guess?). Having to explicitly exclude "casual constructed" is just wasting time avoiding a technical argument. The fact that a card is a Johnny card doesn't make it a good Johnny card. Waste Not is an example of an interesting Johnny card. These really aren't. They're just variants on effects that already exist and aren't terribly exciting to begin with.

I guess Starfield is sort of interesting, but its Mythic, which is absurd.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I really like Starfield of Nyx. Recurring Banishing Lights and Font of Fortunes seems like a good deal. All the other cards spoiled today are really neat too. Probably the best day of spoilers in years.

Also, new spoiler:

~Gourmand Hydra - 2G
Creature - Hydra
Trample
Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on ~
1/1

 

[Angry Grimace]

I really like Starfield of Nyx. Recurring Banishing Lights and Font of Fortunes seems like a good deal. All the other cards spoiled today are really neat too. Probably the best day of spoilers in years.

Also, new spoiler:

~Gourmand Hydra - 2G
Creature - Hydra
Trample
Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on ~
1/1

Sunscorch Regent was such an asshole card in DTK limited (and it only limited itself to your opponent). This could be obnoxious as fuck if the opponent doesn't have removal ready to go.

 

[aidan]

This is a gorgeous Magic card.

 

[SigmasonicX]

+

Also throw in AssForm, because why not

EDIT:

 

[red13th]

AbzanWalls.dec!

 

[Crocodile]

I really don't see the point of this. It's arguing for the sake of arguing.

By that logic, every card ever made is good in some situation or deck. The only thing that's calculated to do is let you say someone is wrong when they say a card isn't good. These cards aren't useful in any sanctioned format and frankly, they're probably not good in EDH either. Having to explicitly exclude "casual constructed" is just wasting time avoiding a technical argument. The fact that a card is a Johnny card doesn't make it a good Johnny card. Waste Not is an example of an interesting Johnny card. These really aren't. They're just variants on effects that already exist and aren't terribly exciting to begin with.

You could argue that Starfield is an interesting design, but its also Mythic, which is dumb as hell.

I feel like I'm being very specific in my evaluation of those cards so "you could say that about any card in any situation" doesn't apply. These cards represent popular effects being done with a twist (permanent + no drawback to you) or at a non-embarrassing cost of resources. If new cards are on par or better than effects that are already getting played then I don't have a problem calling them good/ok/non-embarrassing even if I don't intend to ever play them. I'm not going to call poopoo on WOTC for making better versions of cards that people already like (even if the final card or the deck it goes into isn't amazing). I will call poopoo on them making worse versions of cards that are already out (of which they have been doing a lot of recently) even if I understand why they are doing so.

 

[Jhriad]

EDIT:

lol.

That's one way to end a Commander game.

 

[aidan]

+

Also throw in AssForm, because why not

EDIT:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Beacon of Immortality doesn't cause a player to gain life, right? Similar to how putting a card from your library into your hand is different than drawing a card?

 

[bigkrev]

Well, Wanderwine Hub seems to be the new buyout/spec card. Was a 3 dollar card 48 hours ago, there is now exactly 1 NM copy available on TCGPlayer (10 dollars), and only a half dozen other copies of the card at lower conditions, for around 9 dollars.

 

[OnPoint]

+

Also throw in AssForm, because why not

I don't think Beacon works.

But I want to build this deck lol

 

[SigmasonicX]

I don't think Beacon works.

But I want to build this deck lol

Beacon of Immortality's effect counts as life gain (or life loss, if the life total was negative) for effects that trigger on or replace life gain (or life loss).

 

[Yeef]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Beacon of Immortality doesn't cause a player to gain life, right? Similar to how putting a card from your library into your hand is different than drawing a card?

It does cause life gain. Any affect that sets a player's life to a number just makes that player gain (or lose) life such that they end up at that life total.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Beacon of Immortality doesn't cause a player to gain life, right? Similar to how putting a card from your library into your hand is different than drawing a card?

Changes in life totals are treated as "gaining X" or "losing X" life for purposes of card interaction. So if you doubled a player's life total while they're at 20, that's treated as them gaining 20 life.

 

[OnPoint]

Beacon of Immortality's effect counts as life gain (or life loss, if the life total was negative) for effects that trigger on or replace life gain (or life loss).

Fair enough! I am definitely gonna build this lol

 

[aidan]

Beacon of Immortality's effect counts as life gain (or life loss, if the life total was negative) for effects that trigger on or replace life gain (or life loss).

It does cause life gain. Any affect that sets a player's life to a number just makes that player gain (or lose) life such that they end up at that life total.

Changes in life totals are treated as "gaining X" or "losing X" life for purposes of card interaction. So if you doubled a player's life total while they're at 20, that's treated as them gaining 20 life.

Haha. I want to build a deck around this concept just to screw around with one particular friend (who used to play a Stasis deck way back in the day.)

 

[kirblar]

Quicken + Day's Undoing = Trollololololol

edit: This anecdote matches everything I've heard from my MTG friends regarding personal interactions with him (not Sullivan, people like him): https://twitter.com/TomLaPilleMagic/status/613400820281839617

 

[Firemind]

Quicken + Day's Undoing = Trollololololol

This and Leyline of Anticipation are the only ways it's playable in EDH. Well, that and Timetwister's $600 price tag. :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

This and Leyline of Anticipation are the only ways it's playable in EDH. Well, that and Timetwister's $600 price tag. :lol

Its perfectly playable if you have Notion Thief.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Day's Undoing would be much better as a wheel (2R) than a twister, red prison decks could use it much better. I'd stil try that in U prison decks anyway. Your opponent spells don't matter as much when you got chalices and thorns and you play affinity or some shit.

The Red enchantment is too costly.

The tutor is insane in eternal combo. It's essentially demonic. Spell mastery is a non-condition there. Can't go in AdN, but i can see Iggy-PiF decks already.

The white enchantment isn't good enough in legacy, but it's an incredibly strong recurr engine that double as win condition, i think it will see play in standard/modern.

Tainted remedy is both a hoser and a combo piece. Modern has a lot of lifegain, so why not play this. Also make groves deal 1 damage on tap! It's imba boys. Will see some play in standard and modern methinks.

All in all i think a lot of potential cards have been spoiled today. I don't remember so many potential cards spoiled in a single day in years. Too bad the red cards still sucks.

 

[Firemind]

Well, yeah, let's throw a Waste Not while you're at it. Oh, and Teferi in case they want to kill the thief.

Too bad the red cards still sucks.

I'm still waiting for the supposed 'fixing' of red.

 

[ultron87]

Kind of want to try Abzan Constellation with Starfield. Can't handle all these 4/4 Eidolon of Blossoms and confusing Pharika interactions.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Well, yeah, let's throw a Waste Not while you're at it. Oh, and Teferi in case they want to kill the thief.

I still find it funny they said "Timetwister is broken. Let's print Time Spiral."

This and Leyline of Anticipation are the only ways it's playable in EDH. Well, that and Timetwister's $600 price tag. :lol

It would have been really funny if they had the "End the Turn" clause on the card straight up so you could Timetwister and Time Walk at the same time with that combo.

 

[duxstar]

So I mis read Hierarch at first and thought he was a better birds of paradise and had the tap vigilance ability naturally, then I kept reading people saying he's crap and went back and reread the card. Pretty disappointing to say the least.

I wonder if the green hydra can't be a decent card. Not entirely sure how to use it but that kind of effect can be extremely powerful against certain decks.

Alot of the cards feel like Edh type cards, but I'm sure there are combos I'm missing with them, the combo potential is there with alot of these cards but I'm not a combo player so I'm probably missing them or haven't thought about it long enough.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So I mis read Hierarch at first and thought he was a better birds of paradise and had the tap vigilance ability naturally, then I kept reading people saying he's crap and went back and reread the card. Pretty disappointing to say the least.

I wonder if the green hydra can't be a decent card. Not entirely sure how to use it but that kind of effect can be extremely powerful against certain decks.

Alot of the cards feel like Edh type cards, but I'm sure there are combos I'm missing with them, the combo potential is there with alot of these cards but I'm not a combo player so I'm probably missing them or haven't thought about it long enough.

Hydra is really annoying in draft because frequently the only way to remove him is a direct kill spell since he'll outgrow whatever burn spell you have to toss at him.

 

[Jhriad]

This and Leyline of Anticipation are the only ways it's playable in EDH. Well, that and Timetwister's $600 price tag. :lol

Seems like it'll fit pretty well in decks that use the Exquisite Blood/Sanguine Bond combo.

 

[Sequence Six]

As someone who plays Wanderer EDH you need to take them out before they hit 8 mana and start 3 for 1 ing you. Taxing spells and rule of law or Ethersworn Canonist are good choices against the deck. At the same time I don't know why you would let someone take a 20 minute turn and not just scoop.

Because I've had a few games where the person who took the 20-minute turn lost anyway because someone at the table was quietly waiting for him cross the point of no return. The longer someone's turn takes the wider I smile internally when I'm holding the monkey wrench.

Also, my favorite MST3K host segment is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THbKEXBk8X0

I'm a big fan of drawn out non-jokes

 

[OnPoint]

 

[aidan]

*cards*

Or, if we're going full on Jund, a little Grove of the Burnwillows:

 

[Angry Grimace]

Nissa's Pilgrimage is pretty funny. Its a lot funnier if Rampant Growth was legal.

 

[Jhriad]

Or, if we're going full on Jund, a little Grove of the Burnwillows:

Haha, that's fantastic. If Grove weren't so expensive I'd be picking one up just so I could start brewing a new EDH deck around this interaction.

 

[OnPoint]

Or, if we're going full on Jund, a little Grove of the Burnwillows:

I thought about it but I think I wanted to stay Junk. Still, Grove would be great if it weren't so god damned expensive.

 

[y2dvd]

Lol Hierarch going for $10 on scg? Should be at bulk price.

 

[OnPoint]

Lots of parallels with Noble Hierarch. I don't agree with the hype, but I can totally see why people would jump to conclusions.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Card is totally terrible why would u ever buy it at 10$, it's even rare bah.

 

[Lucario]

I wish I could short sell magic cards. Hierarch is complete garbage.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Thinking of getting back into Magic but I have no one to play with so I'm left with one option. What's the current state of Magic Online? Worth it for someone who just wants to play Standard?

Yes, in my opinion. I exclusively play Standard (though I would like to play [Standard] Pauper....).

The meta really does shift around with the PT. When I started right at the start of Khans, token decks were super popular as was Abzan Rhino. Then when Shota got hot, U/B control was super fucking common for about two weeks. Then Esper dragons right after. Now DenRaptor is super popular.

I don't have anyone to play with in meatspace either. Join us.

Lol I was just hopping in here to talk about mtgo.

Etrian_Oddity, why not add me.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Lol Hierarch going for $10 on scg? Should be at bulk price.

Card is chaff. Are people just daft?

 

[y2dvd]

Lots of parallels with Noble Hierarch. I don't agree with the hype, but I can totally see why people would jump to conclusions.

The only parallels is having Hierarch in the name lol. Should've allowed it to tap for some combination of colors, remove exalt, and I'm fine with it being Noble Junior. As it is, it's going to just be a 1/1 vanilla creature.

 

[OnPoint]

The only parallels is having Hierarch in the name lol. Should've allowed it to tap for some combination of colors, remove exalt, and I'm fine with it being Noble Junior. As it is, it's going to just be a 1/1 vanilla creature.

I'm not saying I like it, or that I think it's good. But.

• Name: Hierarch
• Attacks by itself for: 1
• Taps for (if it gets counter): Multiple colors of mana
• Costs: G

 

[Crocodile]

Lots of parallels with Noble Hierarch. I don't agree with the hype, but I can totally see why people would jump to conclusions.

-Both have "Hiearch" in their name
-Both are from Bant
-Costs G
-Ummmm,.......Errrrrrr...................

If this new guy had like vigilance to start with (so you could put a three drop into play on most turn twos) then this would be a different story. But it doesn't. Hell it doesn't even get to add mana on a crowded board in the late game. At least Elvish Mystic did that LOL

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's a card that you would be okay to have in your opening grip....sometimes.

It's a miserable top deck and a lot of the time it will be miserable on turn 1.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Good in Limited, but renown is just kind of there. Maybe when they become famous, only one more guy joins, like in Ghostbusters.