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[Angry Grimace]

The part that got lost in all this is that Day's Undoing is actually a really interesting card for both Standard and Modern. Its a card that *could* absolutely be broken even though you're letting your opponent take the first crack at it if you're getting a significant enough card advantage, or even against control (because you force a mull on them)

 

[kirblar]

The part that got lost in all this is that Day's Undoing is actually a really interesting card for both Standard and Modern. Its a card that *could* absolutely be broken even though you're letting your opponent take the first crack at it if you're getting a significant enough card advantage, or even against control (because you force a mull on them)

Quicken into it is hilarious.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I always wanted to play a Quicken in the sideboard of Modern Storm so that I could win the mirror in the best way possible. Now imagine what happens if suddenly there are builds of Storm that actively want to maindeck some number of copies!

 

[Matriox]

Seems silly with Notion Thief.

 

[Jhriad]

Competitive. This is where that fundamental emotional difference comes into play.

It still sounds like your reducing the response of each gender to the gender itself being "intrinsically different." With regards to the study you linked we don't actually know the 'why' so much as we know the the responses to the stimuli. Making any hard conclusions about why each responded the way they did at this point is probably premature. Competitiveness is almost assuredly reinforced in males as it's seen as a positive male trait whereas this is the opposite for women and as a consequence that behavior likely isn't reinforced in most women. This could very well be a conditioned response in males but at this point I'd be more likely to simply say that I'm curious what further study would uncover and leave it at that. There could very well be a biological difference that plays into the response each has toward competitive vs. cooperative experiences but I think it's too early to write it off as simply that.

Magic is by design a competitive game and given the growth of the female player base over the years it should be obvious that at least some women find the competitive nature of the game appealing. Ascribing the lack of female players at the more competitive events primarily to a positive response to competitive play by males is disregarding, or at least diminishing, the large number of negative influencers women experience as par for the course at many game stores. While I would agree that creating environments more conducive to casual play might help bring in more women it would probably have a similar effect on the male participation numbers. The "competitive" player base is a fraction of the size of the casual player base and if getting women to make the jump is a priority we probably have to figure out what factors are inhibiting participation for the entirety of the casual audience in addition to the factors specific to women. When the majority of stores aren't beige painted sardine cans in a strip center with a bathroom that's cleaned once a month we might start to see some more significant shifts with regards to where the casual crowd, male and female, spends their time. Until then I think the efficacy of any changes we might make will be relatively modest because the spaces we play in are in large part only acceptable because they happen to be where we can play and not because it's someplace we want to spend our time.

 

[OnPoint]

Quicken into it is hilarious.

You mean amazing

 

[kirblar]

It still sounds like your reducing the response of each gender to the gender itself being "intrinsically different." With regards to the study you linked we don't actually know the 'why' so much as we know the the responses to the stimuli. Making any hard conclusions about why each responded the way they did at this point is probably premature. Competitiveness is almost assuredly reinforced in males as it's seen as a positive male trait whereas this is the opposite for women and as a consequence that behavior likely isn't reinforced in most women. This could very well be a conditioned response in males but at this point I'd be more likely to simply say that I'm curious what further study would uncover and leave it at that. There could very well be a biological difference that plays into the response each has toward competitive vs. cooperative experiences but I think it's too early to write it off as simply that.

Magic is by design a competitive game and given the growth of the female player base over the years it should be obvious that at least some women find the competitive nature of the game appealing. Ascribing the lack of female players at the more competitive events primarily to a positive response to competitive play by males is disregarding, or at least diminishing, the large number of negative influencers women experience as par for the course at many game stores. While I would agree that creating environments more conducive to casual play might help bring in more women it would probably have a similar effect on the male participation numbers. The "competitive" player base is a fraction of the size of the casual player base and if getting women to make the jump is a priority we probably have to figure out what factors are inhibiting participation for the entirety of the casual audience in addition to the factors specific to women. When the majority of stores aren't beige painted sardine cans in a strip center with a bathroom that's cleaned once a month we might start to see some more significant shifts with regards to where the casual crowd, male and female, spends their time. Until then I think the efficacy of any changes we might make will be relatively modest because the spaces we play in are in large part only acceptable because they happen to be where we can play and not because it's someplace we want to spend our time.

Even if you disagree with the origin of the difference- the difference is still there. You work with what you have. not what you might be able to potentially achieve with hundreds of years of social liberalization.

I'm not disregarding the real issues- I'm saying that even if you fix those, you aren't going to see change in the competitive #s because there's a different issue in goals/motivation lurking there that makes it a horrifically bad metric for trying to measure positive change.

 

[red13th]

Are the intro pack legends foil? I kind of want alternate art Pia and Kiran Nalaar but not if it's foil.

 

[kirblar]

Are the intro pack legends foil? I kind of want alternate art Pia and Kiran Nalaar but not if it's foil.

Yeah.

 

[The Technomancer]

Some people are questioning the statistic I’ve used about how many Magic players are female. I believe this is pulling focus from the actual issue – we all want to make more players, including women, feel more comfortable and welcome at Magic events no matter what – but I sense it won’t go away until addressed.

It’s important for our business to understand who our audience is, so from time to time, we do what is called a “deep dive”where we seek out an outside expert to gather global data about who exactly our audience is. As part of the most recent “deep dive” survey, the question was asked “Do you play Magic?” defined as playing with physical paper cards, in any place or format, or digitally through Magic Online or Magic Duels. Of all the people who answered “yes” to that question, 38% were female.

With that out of the way, let’s please turn our attention back to the actual topic of discussion: the number of female players is up (and I believe everyone in this debate acknowledges this), yet is not represented at equal numbers in organized play. Why is this? Please share your experiences.

Thank you.

And we're back to 38% being players. Hm

 

[Etrian Oddity]

God, fuck this goddamn game sometimes. - _ -

5 straight games with fucking god awful draws in opening hands, mulligans and consecutive turns. Eat a dick MTGO.

 

[manipulate]

And we're back to 38% being players. Hm

 

[SigmasonicX]

Guess who's back.

 

[Toxi]

God, that art always looked so doofy. "I am the brave knight on my prancing happy lion, look at me make pretty patterns in the sky!"

And we're back to 38% being players. Hm

Suddenly a bunch of people have egg on their face.

 

[Angry Grimace]

fun card for my Coco deck.

 

[kirblar]

People don't have egg on their face- this got more information out there (the Duels inclusion explains a lot here given the demographics of mobile gaming) that clarified a quote that looked bad.

Does the community consider a Duels player an actual player? Not really. But WotC certainly considers them an untapped market that they want to get more invested in the way more expensive main game.

 

[Matriox]

Guess who's back.

More for white devotion

 

["God's Beard!"]

4CDC ORI test list:

Creatures(25):

• 4 Satyr Wayfinder
• 2 Elvish Visionary
• 3 Den Protector
• 2 Deathmist Raptor
• 1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
• 3 Courser of Kruphix
• 1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
• 4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
• 2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
• 1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
• 1 Dragonlord Atarka
• 1 Hornet Queen

Enchantments(2):

• 2 Whip of Erebos

Spells(9):

• 4 Thoughtseize
• 3 Murderous Cut
• 2 Hero's Downfall

Lands(24):

• 1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
• 2 Temple of Malady
• 3 Polluted Delta
• 2 Swamp
• 1 Island
• 3 Forest
• 4 Llanowar Wastes
• 1 Mana Confluence
• 4 Opulent Palace
• 3 Frontier Bivouac

Sideboard(15):

• 1 Sultai Charm
• 1 Dragonlord Silumgar
• 2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
• 1 Treasure Cruise
• 2 Stratus Dancer
• 2 Disdainful Stroke
• 1 Crux of Fate
• 1 Languish
• 2 Bile Blight
• 1 Self-Inflicted Wound
• 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

 

[WanderingWind]

Does the community consider a Duels player an actual player? Not really. But WotC certainly considers them an untapped market that they want to get more invested in the way more expensive main game.

Well, frankly, that's the communities fault. That, more than anything, smacks of the type of noninclusive behavior that is best left to gamers. "What is a real Magic player?" Anybody who plays Magic the Gathering. I'm not saying you disagree with this, but I think if people want to start drawing lines in the sand about what constitutes a "real" player, they're doing so to further their perceptions of the game and not the reality.

38 percent of a base being women is pretty damn good. And the reason seems pretty clear. In Magic, women are heroes of the stories, villains and everything in between. We have women in full plate mail and "sexy" attire, with the men having the same deal. There are white PWs (the hero characters), black, Asian, disabled, genderless, etc, etc, etc, etc. The game was pretty heavily pandering at some points in its history, but I think MtG deserves massive credit for being pretty damn inclusive way before the market forced them to become so.

 

["God's Beard!"]

WW, let's play Cockatrice. I'm on now.

'Cause these randoms are jackasses.

 

[WanderingWind]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";169893665]WW, let's play Cockatrice. I'm on now.

'Cause these randoms are jackasses.

[/QUOTE]

I am at work! Lantern.dec again?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I am at work! Lantern.dec again?

Excuses. I've got a few modern decks loaded so whatever is good.

 

[WanderingWind]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";169893884]Excuses. I've got a few modern decks loaded so whatever is good.[/QUOTE]

I'm on duty until 4pm my time. I can surf, but playing games that go through the company server...well, that's pushing it. lol.

I'm in Germany, so whatever timeframe 530pm my time is, let's get a couple games in.

 

[Sequence Six]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";169893665]WW, let's play Cockatrice. I'm on now.

'Cause these randoms are jackasses.

[/QUOTE]

Stop playing with butts

WW, save him from these butts

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm on duty until 4pm my time. I can surf, but playing games that go through the company server...well, that's pushing it. lol.

I'm in Germany, so whatever timeframe 530pm my time is, let's get a couple games in.

Sounds good.

 

[WanderingWind]

Wish I could play. That was pretty exciting. I like competing without having to give WotCs Digital Division money. Also, it just feels so wrong to have to pay money to play one on one against serious players. If people weren't knobs and left their brews in the just for fun or getting serious rooms, it wouldn't suck so bad playing in the tourney practice room. What that has essential become is "Just For Fun" means "I'm new, so I'll get mad if you play any card that I deem too strong for this room," so everybody not new goes to tourney practice to play with their one of Thoughtsieze they opened in a draft.

 

[charlequin]

God, that art always looked so doofy. "I am the brave knight on my prancing happy lion, look at me make pretty patterns in the sky!"

Doofy is on-brand for Bant!

Does the community consider a Duels player an actual player? Not really.

I'm curious to see how this plays out if Wizard are at all successful in their efforts to make Duels into Magic: the Hearthstoning.

38 percent of a base being women is pretty damn good. And the reason seems pretty clear. In Magic, women are heroes of the stories, villains and everything in between. We have women in full plate mail and "sexy" attire, with the men having the same deal. There are white PWs (the hero characters), black, Asian, disabled, genderless, etc, etc, etc, etc. The game was pretty heavily pandering at some points in its history, but I think MtG deserves massive credit for being pretty damn inclusive way before the market forced them to become so.

I think when you get down to it, Magic just as a game is so ahead on its gender representation and so generally, casually enjoyable that it's appealing to a lot of women, but "competitive" Magic is so smelly and awful that it's appealing mostly to gross people and the really over-competitive.

 

[Alien Manobo]

Does Cockatrice have automated rules enforcement now? I ditched Trice months ago in favor of Xmage, no rules arguments since everything is automated and less salty players.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Does Cockatrice have automated rules enforcement now? I ditched Trice months ago in favor of Xmage, no rules arguments since everything is automated and less salty players.

I've never used xmage but the UI looks horrific.

 

[Alien Manobo]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";169898054]I've never used xmage but the UI looks horrific.[/QUOTE]

It does take a while to get used to if you're coming from Trice, but the program as a whole is much better than mws,cockatrice and even the browser based untap.in. You can do set drafts, commander or even play with bots equipped with x decks.

 

[lupin23rd]

The chance that they would reprint Black Lotus or any of the Power Nine even if the list were abolished is like zero. They don't reprint Force of Will right now.

But they could actually print Thunder Spirit.

Looking forward to our eventual Mana Drain reprint (hey that card isn't even on the reserved list)

 

[duxstar]

It just occurred to me that a knight of the white Orchard reprint could be a sign pointing to something. Why else reprint a card that searches for a plains card not a basic, maybe a shock land reprint? I know it goes great with landfall too, which I expect to be a returning mechanic in BFZ but I don't know if it's been confirmed.

It could be they just wanted a 2/2 first striker for white and decided to use this one because it has a history and didn't want to waste resources on creating a new card that searched for basics.

 

[WanderingWind]

I dunno about that, but the painlands being printed worry me a bit.

 

[Matriox]

It just occurred to me that a knight of the white Orchard reprint could be a sign pointing to something. Why else reprint a card that searches for a plains card not a basic, maybe a shock land reprint? I know it goes great with landfall too, which I expect to be a returning mechanic in BFZ but I don't know if it's been confirmed.

It could be they just wanted a 2/2 first striker for white and decided to use this one because it has a history and didn't want to waste resources on creating a new card that searched for basics.

I would have thought Nissa would fetch any forest instead of basic according to this though. You could have the opposite and thought she would be too good if she got any forest but I'm skeptical.

 

[ultron87]

More Game Rule Violation warnings for me incoming.

 

[Firemind]

Pegassi sound like the kryptonite in the plane of wizards.

Also, more hate bears in modern. Yay?

 

[darkside31337]

Guess who's back.

fuck yeah. love this guy. kind of a weird reprint though.

 

[manipulate]

Origins limited is looking grim af at the moment.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Think it will see some Legacy play too. Flying is really good in that format as it avoid everything except Delver basically (and still trade with delver).

 

[OnPoint]

More Game Rule Violation warnings for me incoming.

My first thought was "Oh more fun for Death & Taxes".

My second thought was "Legacy is dead, who cares about that?"

My third thought was undefined yet tangible sadness.

Man I wish Legacy wasn't pretty much dead.

 

[Firemind]

I think Thalia is still the preferred choice. One mana is huge and flying doesn't matter much when you have stoneforges fetching swords and jittes.

In modern though, imagine having them side by side on turn three. Suddenly Gitaxian Probes cost two, Serum Visions three and Summer Bloom four. :lol

 

[OnPoint]

I think Thalia is still the preferred choice. One mana is huge and flying doesn't matter much when you have stoneforges fetching swords and jittes.

In modern though, imagine having them side by side on turn three. Suddenly Gitaxian Probes cost two, Serum Visions three and Summer Bloom four. :lol

I would think Thalia is preferred but this possibly makes it in as Thalia 5 & 6 if it's needed. One mana is nothing when you have a Vial set to 3.

 

[G.ZZZ]

I think Thalia is still the preferred choice. One mana is huge and flying doesn't matter much when you have stoneforges fetching swords and jittes.

In modern though, imagine having them side by side on turn three. Suddenly Gitaxian Probes cost two, Serum Visions three and Summer Bloom four. :lol

Thalia is obviously better, but this goes alognside Thalia. The effect stack and the more you stack it, the better it actually get.

 

[aidan]

Thalia is obviously better, but this goes alognside Thalia. The effect stack and the more you stack it, the better it actually get.

Wingmare is non-Legendary, too.

 

[pelicansurf]

Is every rare and mythic white?

 

[kirblar]

I'm curious to see how this plays out if Wizard are at all successful in their efforts to make Duels into Magic: the Hearthstoning.

I think when you get down to it, Magic just as a game is so ahead on its gender representation and so generally, casually enjoyable that it's appealing to a lot of women, but "competitive" Magic is so smelly and awful that it's appealing mostly to gross people and the really over-competitive.

It's not an accident that the boom started with Magic 2010 and the release of the first DOTP. It's been insanely successful for them at getting players.

The problem is that the "these nerds are gross and sweaty and chasing away all the women" argument is that it doesn't explain this competitive disparity showing up in a game like Chess.

White Orchid and Nissa being together in the same set is actually bizarre - and I do wonder if that means some sort of nonbasic lands with basic subtypes are coming out way soon.

 

[Xis]

The problem is that the "these nerds are gross and sweaty and chasing away all the women" argument is that it doesn't explain this competitive disparity showing up in a game like Chess.

Unless chess players are also "gross and sweaty nerds"?

 

[WanderingWind]

I don't know why you put that in quotes, kirbs. Magic absolutely, unequivocally has a hygiene problem and an image problem. The first won't ever get fixed because store owners can't afford nice places with good ventilation and the second won't ever get fixed because playing pretend wizard casting elf spells (or just arguing about the efficiency of said spells or the price of cardboard) isn't ever going to be cool, hip or sexy.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

 

[kirblar]

I don't know why you put that in quotes, kirbs. Magic absolutely, unequivocally has a hygiene problem and an image problem. The first won't ever get fixed because store owners can't afford nice places with good ventilation and the second won't ever get fixed because playing pretend wizard casting elf spells (or just arguing about the efficiency of said spells or the price of cardboard) isn't ever going to be cool, hip or sexy.

Grammar?