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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

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P

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170067008]After all this time I just figured out why people call WotC wahtsee.[/QUOTE]
I prefer wotkuh
 
F

Firemind

Member
Image.ashx


I always get MaRo and Maro confused.
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
I love MM15 drafts. Too bad it's way top expensive to keep playing. I completed my playset of Noble Heirarch anyways.
 
F

Firemind

Member
I don't like MM2015 drafts being 24 tix. All I open is chaff and a digital goyf isn't even worth half as much as a real life goyf. Cube when?
 
G

GamerKingFaiz

Member
Am I wrong in assuming that casting a Flusterstorm would have the same effect as a Spell Pierce if you're countering the opponent's first spell of the turn (i.e. your Flusterstorm is storm count 2).

Is there any reason 3 Flusterstorm main instead of 3 Spell Pierce?

I do understand storm can be Stifled, but what about even like 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Flusterstorm?
 
K

kirblar

Member
GamerKingFaiz said:
Am I wrong in assuming that casting a Flusterstorm would have the same effect as a Spell Pierce if you're countering the opponent's first spell of the turn (i.e. your Flusterstorm is storm count 2).

Is there any reason 3 Flusterstorm main instead of 3 Spell Pierce?

I do understand storm can be Stifled, but what about even like 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Flusterstorm?
Click to expand...
Can't counter PWs/Artifacts/Enchantments. It's a big deal in the main.
 
K

kirblar

Member
GamerKingFaiz said:
I think at that point I would let it resolve even if I had a force in hand. I like to keep my forces for the Show and Tell counter battle. I'd probably force a counter balance next turn though so I don't potentially get locked out.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's different- I'm playing Tempo decks which don't want a top player setting up removal.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Random question: How expensive would this card have to be not to break the game?

Stormify
Instant
Copy target instant or sorcery spell for each spell cast before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Toxi said:
Random question: How expensive would this card have to be not to break the game?

Stormify
Instant
Copy target spell for each spell cast before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.
Click to expand...

RRR would be fine. Fork is pretty bad card anyway, storm fork isn't that much better because it share the fundamental problem of having like 6+ mana to copy anything worth. This is assuming you can copy only istants or sorceries.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Toxi said:
Random question: How expensive would this card have to be not to break the game?

Stormify
Instant
Copy target spell for each spell cast before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.
Click to expand...
I almost think this isn't printable - if it is it's at a completely stupid 6=7cc+ mana cost.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
G.ZZZ said:
RRR would be fine. Fork is pretty bad card anyway, storm fork isn't that much better because it share the fundamental problem of having like 6+ mana to copy anything worth. This is assuming you can copy only istants or sorceries.
Click to expand...
Oh whoops, I'll fix that.
kirblar said:
I almost think this isn't printable - if it is it's at a completely stupid 6=7cc+ mana cost.
Click to expand...
I feel the main issue is that different effects scale differently despite being at similar mana costs. For example, Lightning Bolt is 1 mana and being able to copy Lightning Bolt 6 times means death.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Yeah- it does horrific things in those instances- being able to go "ritual ritual ritual cantrip cantrip manamorphose bolt, stormify, kill you" is super dumb. That's why this thing seems unsafe at any CC to me.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
kirblar said:
Yeah- it does horrific things in those instances- being able to go "ritual ritual ritual cantrip cantrip manamorphose bolt, stormify, kill you" is super dumb. That's why this thing seems unsafe at any CC to me.
Click to expand...

Stormifying a bolt isn't that much better than just casting tendril , with the difference that you need 1 less specific card to cast tendril.

At 3 mana any spell you copy at 1 compete with tendrils, with the difference that it's less reliable because you have to draw both. At 3 a spell compete with Desire/Time Spiral which is an absurdly strong effect.
Imho there are two scenarios:

- you want to play storm combo that win in 1 turn, at which points tendril/desire aren't comparable with anything except maybe storm manamorphose (this is Legacy)
- you want to play lots of cantrip/burn and accrue advantages , at which point pyromancer ascension seems a better card (this is prob Modern)
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm unreasonably excited to sleeve up my Piledrivers and play 10 minute matches that are crushing victory or crushing defeat.
 
K

Kieli

Member
When you summon creatures, do you only have to pay their mana costs once? Afterwards, anytime you want to attack, it's free.

Or is it you only have to pay when you attack, but you have to pay everytime you attack?

I'm used to Yu-Gi-Oh, where you sacrifice lower-tier monsters to summon a higher-tier monster, but you can use the higher-tier monster freely until it gets destroyed by enemy.

Edit: I'm reading the rule-book, and two rules don't make sense.

#1 - Creatures never attack other creatures. Wut.
#2 - If you are being attacked, you can use multiple creatures to block one enemy. Attacking player decides how much damage to inflict on each blocker. Double wut. So if the attacking creature is 8/8, can enemy make it attack every blocker with 8? Or must the user partition the 8 atk?
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Kieli said:
When you summon creatures, do you only have to pay their mana costs once? Afterwards, anytime you want to attack, it's free.

Or is it you only have to pay when you attack, but you have to pay everytime you attack?

I'm used to Yu-Gi-Oh, where you sacrifice lower-tier monsters to summon a higher-tier monster, but you can use the higher-tier monster freely until it gets destroyed by enemy.

Edit: I'm reading the rule-book, and two rules don't make sense.

#1 - Creatures never attack other creatures. Wut.
#2 - If you are being attacked, you can use multiple creatures to block one enemy. Attacking player decides how much damage to inflict on each blocker. Double wut. So if the attacking creature is 8/8, can enemy make it attack every blocker with 8? Or must the user partition the 8 atk?
Click to expand...

You should probably play Duels of the Planeswalkers (2014), which automates everything for you. It has a free demo.

Anyway, you only pay mana costs for creatures when you cast the spell. Attacking takes no mana, unless it says otherwise on a card.

Creatures can only attack players, and you have to announce (and tap) every attacking creature at once. After you declare attacking creatures, the defending player declares blockers and assigns blockers to each attacking creature he or she wants to block. Damage from the blocked creature is distributed among blocking creatures. Blocked creatures don't deal damage to the player unless they have trample.

EDIT: This tutorial video from Wizards may help.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Kieli said:
When you summon creatures, do you only have to pay their mana costs once? Afterwards, anytime you want to attack, it's free.

Or is it you only have to pay when you attack, but you have to pay everytime you attack?

I'm used to Yu-Gi-Oh, where you sacrifice lower-tier monsters to summon a higher-tier monster, but you can use the higher-tier monster freely until it gets destroyed by enemy.

Edit: I'm reading the rule-book, and two rules don't make sense.

#1 - Creatures never attack other creatures. Wut.
#2 - If you are being attacked, you can use multiple creatures to block one enemy. Attacking player decides how much damage to inflict on each blocker. Double wut. So if the attacking creature is 8/8, can enemy make it attack every blocker with 8? Or must the user partition the 8 atk?
Click to expand...

Like a previous poster said, you spend the mana to cast a creature once and that's it (like with all other spells). Some creatures ask you to do things every turn to keep them around, but unless a creature card or effect says that explicitly, you don't have to pay anything else after casting it.

Unlike in Yu-Gi-Oh, where you have to clear the opposing side of creatures before you can attack your opponent's life points, Magic works the opposite way: you attack your opponents directly by default, and they may choose to block your creatures (with multiple ones, if they want) to prevent their life points from decreasing. A very viable strategy in Magic is not blocking with creatures unless it'd be in your favor.

For example, say your opponent attacks with a 2/2 and you have a 1/1 that could block it. Unless you're at a very low life total, most of the time it'd be wise to not block at all. If you get a second 1/1 you'll be able to double-block the 2/2 to trade with it later, or maybe you could eventually cast a creature that could reliably block the 2/2 while still keeping your 1/1 around. If your opponent ends up casting a huge 7/7 and you then block it with your 1/1, it will have ended up saving you seven life rather than the two you'd have not lost from blocking the 2/2 earlier.

For multiple blocks, you have to choose the order it'll attack blocking creatures in, and then it keeps dealing damage to them in order until it has dealt damage equal to its power.

Let's say you attack with your 8/8 and your opponent blocks with a 3/4, a 4/4 and a 1/1. Keeping things simple, your options would be the following:
  • 1, 2 then 3: 4 damage dealt to 4/4 (killing it), 4 damage dealt to blocker 3/4 (dies as well) and no damage to 1/1 (so it survives). Body count: your 8/8, the 4/4 and the 3/4 die
  • 1, 3 then 2: 4 damage dealt to 4/4 (killing it), 1 damage dealt to 1/1 (dies as well) and the remaining 3 damage to 3/4 (so it survives). Body count: your 8/8, the 4/4 and the 1/1 die
  • 2, 3 then 1: 4 damage dealt to 3/4 (killing it), 1 damage dealt to 1/1 (dies as well) and the remaining 3 damage to 4/4 (so it survives). Body count: your 8/8, the 3/4 and the 1/1 die
After analyzing all that, and given this overly simple circumstances (no abilities, spells or whatever), your best bet would probably be to kill the 3/4 and 4/4, and your worst decision would be killing the 3/4 and the 1/1.
 
B

Big One

Banned
Kieli said:
When you summon creatures, do you only have to pay their mana costs once? Afterwards, anytime you want to attack, it's free.

Or is it you only have to pay when you attack, but you have to pay everytime you attack?

I'm used to Yu-Gi-Oh, where you sacrifice lower-tier monsters to summon a higher-tier monster, but you can use the higher-tier monster freely until it gets destroyed by enemy.

Edit: I'm reading the rule-book, and two rules don't make sense.

#1 - Creatures never attack other creatures. Wut.
#2 - If you are being attacked, you can use multiple creatures to block one enemy. Attacking player decides how much damage to inflict on each blocker. Double wut. So if the attacking creature is 8/8, can enemy make it attack every blocker with 8? Or must the user partition the 8 atk?
Click to expand...

I play more YGO than I do Magic, but Magic is very simple once you really get the base rules down. Pretty much everything in YGO is based on Magic in some form or another even though the two games are very different at their core by design (mainly cause YGO was designed as a parody of Magic in the manga in the first place). Core differences are:

1. The way you attack. In Magic, you always attack in one group directly against the player. There is one attack, while in YGO you can attack one at a time with every monster of your choice, and it HAS to be against a face-up monster before you attack directly.

2. Attack and Defense values. YGO uses these to determine who goes over who in each battle. Magic does too, but it's called Power and Toughness. In YGO, Defense values can go to 0 and the monster remains unaffected. While in Magic, if a Toughtness value goes to 0 the monster is destroyed.

3. Trap cards. In YGO there's a very strong element of surprise in Trap cards. Magic has these too, but you can use them from the hand. They're called Instants. And yes, there is a variant of Instants called "Traps" but they aren't in any way similar to Trap cards in YGO mechanically.

4. Spell Speed 3. This is something that's pretty much YGO exclusive in terms of how often it's used in the game. Basically Spell Speed 3 cards in YGO have nothing to respond to them other than other Spell Speed 3 cards. Magic used to have a card type called Interrupt that was similar to this, but Interrupts were errata'd into regular Instants and removed from the game all together (think of something like Solemn Warning becoming a normal Trap card). Basically stuff like
Details.aspx
can counter stuff like Solemn Judgment can from YGO, but it's just an Instant, meaning it can be placed anywhere on the Stack (which as far as I know is pretty much the same as Chains in YGO) even though it outright removes the card before it even hits the play area. This creates a very different dynamic and possibilities to the play of Magic.

5. The Extra Deck. Get used to not using this anymore as a toolbox. The closest you'll get to this is tokens and double face cards.

6. Formats. Magic has formats out of the ass, while YGO only has one (real) format outside of maybe that shitty Battle Pack draft. Magic is specifically designed to support multiple formats with the main ones being:
  • Standard - Rotating format where the two current blocks are legal. Blocks are a group of sets of cards. Once a new block is released, the oldest block gets rotated out.
  • Modern - Basically everything from Eighth Edition and up is legal. This format is focused on the modern card layout sets primarily and is a very new, but popular format. This is usually a format you get into if you want to make long term investments in cards. This format has a banlist.
  • Legacy - Everything from Alpha (the very first set) and up is legal. This is pretty much the equivalent of what YGO's main format is in that there's a pretty big banlist of cards. This is also one of those formats where you're investing in a deck that you can use forever, but this one is a lot more expensive than Modern with decks commonly going up to the thousands of dollars in terms of price-range.
  • Draft - The same type of Draft format you see in every card game. Only Wizards, like the above three formats, actively has Draft tournaments and supports it in their set design.

Then there's Vintage, which is basically Legacy but has a Banned and Limited list and allows certain powerful cards banned in Legacy to be legal as Limited. Vintage isn't supported very well which is why I left it off this list, but there's a solid community in it. However it's way more expensive than Legacy, as you literally would have to sell like your house to even invest in a deck.

A good format for someone new such as yourself to get into would be Sealed. Basically you and someone else buys six packs of Magic, open them up and make a deck out of them. You also need spare basic lands for this as well. Sealed is usually something played at pre-release events but it's also a good way to practice and have fun kitchen-table games with friends.
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
Yu-Gi-Oh has a better anime too. In yu-gi-oh they're playing to save other people's souls and stuff like that. The Magic: The Gathering anime would probably be just a bunch of dudes playing card games and putting off women with their casual sexism. At least YGO had monsters and music and stuff.

I watched one episode of yu-gi-oh.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
So we ended up drafting both MM1 and MM2 tonight.

MM1 draft I went for WRGub Sunburst, which went pretty well except I didn't draft enough creatures and discovered too late that Etherium Sculpter is actually kind of really bad in a deck with Etched Oracles and Skyreach Mantas and didn't do too well. I ended up having too much fixing I think; between two Vivids and a Knight of the Reliquary I was always Sunbursting for maximum, but I was tearing through my deck with the Knight and still drawing lands. I ended multiple games with something like 12 lands in play and the yard on turn 9.

MM2 draft though I forced UR Elementals and got passed a third Smokebraider, Mulldrifter, and second Aethersnipe pack three and fucking hell is this archetype fun to pilot. Smokebraider on turn 2 into five drops on turn 3 is fucking awesome, all the more so when you've got changeling instants you can rush out to swing in for big damage

Island x8
Mountain x8

Creatures:
Smokebraider x3
Aethersnipe x2
Soulbright Flamekin x1
Air Servant x1
Sickle Ripper x1
Mulldrifter x1
Cloud Elemental x1
Mirror Entity x1
VIgean Graftmage x1
Nobilis of War x1
Niv-Mizzet the Firemind x1

Instants
Mana Leak x1
Wings of Velis Vel x1
Brute Force x1
Smash to Smithereens x1
Vapor Snag x1
Mana Leak x1
Electrolyze x1
Cryptic Command x1
Blades of Velis Vel x1
Burst Lignting x1

Sorceries
Wrap in Flames x1
 
I

ironmang

Member
Just won a pretty big pptq with affinity. This deck is so good. Why isnt everybody playing this lol. I made some horrible mistakes but still crushed even supposedly bad matchups.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
scoopcityszopk.png



...I was playing my Hero's Blade deck. The "duals" were a temple of epiphany and triumph.

Also, he opened with like three shivan reefs and a mindswipe so it's not like he's playing Pauper or something.
ironmang said:
Just won a pretty big pptq with affinity. This deck is so good. Why isnt everybody playing this lol. I made some horrible mistakes but still crushed even supposedly bad matchups.
Click to expand...

Awesome, congrats!
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
I don't know whether it's an indicator of how bad the online MTG community is or online disinhibition or both.

Still not the worst online card game though

Actually, I remember playing Duels of the Planeswalkers on 360 and the game froze (as it often did) and I was playing with the vision camera on so I wrote down a little note and held it up that said "looks like it froze on us" and I get a message a few seconds later that says something to the effect of "no shit you fucking retard".

And I got a shitload of abuse on Worms Armageddon as well. I'm pretty sure the majority of people are assholes and the only thing preventing them from not being vocal sore losers IRL is embarrassment and fear of getting their ass beat.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Yo. Nissa, Vastwood Seer is amazing so far in my Whip testing. Just playing one, but milling it over then whipping it back and flipping is the best feeling ever. Draws a land no matter what, and if it flips it draws another card or makes a 4/4 and turns into a draw engine. I'm impressed, can't wait to test more with her. Haven't hit Lili enough to form a real opinion.

Also, the extra pair of Elvish Visionaries are just keeping the deck running smooth. So far I'm loving the available spoiler cards.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Goddamn that was a great fucking deck but I went 2-2 because I was only the second fasted deck at the table. Two other people managed to put together separate R/W equipment brews that destroyed me because I kind of counted on being able to take swings to the face and outracing them in the air, and a board filled with double strikers and equipment is basically impossible to race that way
 
K

Kieli

Member
Thanks for the info, guys!

Lots of questions came up while playing and we were interpreting the rules on the fly (and quite liberally).

#1 - Is this correct? The attacker decides what cards to attack with. Blocker than decides what cards to block with. Attacker decides the order of who attacks what.

#2 - Artifact Creatures count as artifacts? (i.e. ability, "when you control artifact...")

#3 - With artifact equipments, can you place them on the battlefield AND equip them in the same turn AND use them if you have enough land?
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Kieli said:
Thanks for the info, guys!

Lots of questions came up while playing and we were interpreting the rules on the fly (and quite liberally).

#1 - Is this correct? The attacker decides what cards to attack with. Blocker than decides what cards to block with. Attacker decides the order of who attacks what.
Click to expand...
Yes, yes, and no. The defender determines which creatures block which attacking creatures. However then if two+ creatures block a single attacking creature the attacking player chooses how damage is divided between those two blockers

So if I attack with a 3/3 and you have a 2/2 and a 1/2, you get to choose to block with the 1/2, the 2/2, or both. However if you block with both I then get to choose how the three damage I'm dealing is dealt to those two blocking creatures. Make sense?
#2 - Artifact Creatures count as artifacts? (i.e. ability, "when you control artifact...")
Click to expand...
Yup
#3 - With artifact equipments, can you place them on the battlefield AND equip them in the same turn AND use them if you have enough land?
Click to expand...

Yes. Generally speaking you can activate any ability you can pay for as soon as the card is in play. The exception is creatures: creatures cannot attack or tap the turn they enter under your control. However if a creatures ability does not tap it, such as if the cost is just 2W without a tap symbol, you can activate it as soon as its out
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Kieli said:
Thanks for the info, guys!

Lots of questions came up while playing and we were interpreting the rules on the fly (and quite liberally).

#1 - Is this correct? The attacker decides what cards to attack with. Blocker than decides what cards to block with. Attacker decides the order of who attacks what.

#2 - Artifact Creatures count as artifacts? (i.e. ability, "when you control artifact...")

#3 - With artifact equipments, can you place them on the battlefield AND equip them in the same turn AND use them if you have enough land?
Click to expand...

Try this video I linked earlier to get your head around the steps of combat.

1. Not quite. Defending player assigns blockers for a specific attacking creature, and you determine what order a single blocked creature will deal damage to the creatures blocking it. Though really, keep in mind that multi-blocking doesn't come up that often in a real match.
2. Artifact creatures are artifacts, yes.
3. You can equip equipments the same turn they enter the battlefield, yes. Summoning sickness only applies to creatures (including artifact creatures). As for "using" an equipment, if you mean attacking or using a "Equipped creature has 'Tap: Do X'" ability, then that depends on if the equipped creature is summoning sick or not. If you mean activating an ability like "(2): Equipped creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn", which is tied to the equipment and not to the creature, then yes, you can use that ability.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
We did another grab bag draft today; these were the packs we drafted:

Modern Masters 2015, Portal, Conspiracy, Dragon's Maze, Gatecrash, Betrayers of Kamigawa, Champions of Kamigawa, Dark Ascension, Eighth Edition, Legions, Magic 2012, Mirrodin Besieged, Ninth Edition, Odyssey, Saviors of Kamigawa, Scourge, Sixth Edition, Dragons of Tarkir
Click to expand...

I opened Magic 2012, Modern Masters 2015, and Dragons of Tarkir. I had one absurdly good pull, and an absurdly good draft overall. This felt like one of the strongest draft decks I've ever had in any format:

S5V7iqH.jpg
Click to expand...

Obviously in a "normal" draft format this deck isn't 100% absurd, but it was by far the strongest deck at the table.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Sometimes you just have to play Grizzly Bears. I love Chaos Draft. Wish I knew where to get random packs cheaply.

Also, Merfolk and Affinity winning GPs. Who says Twin needed to be banned? :lol
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
This dude is trying to haggle the fuck out of me for my snaps. Dude is writing paragraphs about how hard it is to move the stuff I offered him and I haven't budged at all this past week.

I'm not gonna get into some game about trading up and down when you're basically a store that also wants a 10-20% premium on trades. I offered him the 15% premium he was asking for using only his active want list to get a bunch of fetches and a show and tell and the dude just drops everything to try and get my snaps.

Dude just doesn't get it. I was willing to play by his rules, why go crazy like this?
 
I

ironmang

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170173313]This dude is trying to haggle the fuck out of me for my snaps. Dude is writing paragraphs about how hard it is to move the stuff I offered him and I haven't budged at all this past week.

I'm not gonna get into some game about trading up and down when you're basically a store that also wants a 10-20% premium on trades. I offered him the 15% premium he was asking for using only his active want list to get a bunch of fetches and a show and tell and the dude just drops everything to try and get my snaps.

Dude just doesn't get it. I was willing to play by his rules, why go crazy like this?[/QUOTE]

Is it those 2 kids on deckbox? Not that I'm deckbox creeping or anything but I've tried trading with them before and they pull out every trick in the book trying to get value.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";170136503]
scoopcityszopk.png



...I was playing my Hero's Blade deck. The "duals" were a temple of epiphany and triumph.

Also, he opened with like three shivan reefs and a mindswipe so it's not like he's playing Pauper or something.


Awesome, congrats![/QUOTE]
Stop trying to win you jerk
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
What's the best way to get your grubby hands on a new set in MTGO? Drafts and Sealed? Wait for sellers to have common/uncommon playsets for sale and then hunt down rares? What's the prerelease/release scene on MTGO like?
 
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