Manmademan
Member
that's exactly what it was. marvel putting financial pressure on fox to do what they wanted, by cutting off their merchandising. that's about where it ends though.
Marvel announces X-Men "Apocalypse Wars" event for 2016
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that's exactly what it was. marvel putting financial pressure on fox to do what they wanted, by cutting off their merchandising. that's about where it ends though.
The whispers that Remender was supposed to write Extraordinary make more and more sense.
And I know most people will go "but AXIS!" I don't disagree, but his Apoc stories in Uncanny X-Force/Avengers were completely fantastic. This could've been the end of a trilogy of sorts. Shame.
And I know most people will go "but AXIS!" I don't disagree, but his Apoc stories in Uncanny X-Force/Avengers were completely fantastic. This could've been the end of a trilogy of sorts. Shame.
MHWilliams
Member
I'm fine with teen Cyclops, but he needs to get hard and get the ladies. No Jean, no All-New Wolverine? Not worth it.
Manmademan
Member
he's grown a pair in ANXM. might turn into a legitimately good character in his own right- we'll see where it goes.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/20/tom-brevoort-talks-secret-wars-t-shirts-and-licensing/
People are attributing malice to what is simple business deals
hate using bleedingcool, but i don't want to be digging through Breevort's tumblr either
Proxima Midnight couldn't even take down Luke Cage.
torre_avenue
Banned
This is the point in the conversation where I slowly begin losing the plot a bit, so I'll wrap up. Marvel did all this to Fox to try and force them to revert the rights to the F4 back, that I can agree with. I also believe that there was some degree of animosity between the two, animosity that has now been resolved due to some...agreement made between the two, leading to X-Men TV shows and comic tie-ins to the films. What that entails we won't find out till they choose to tell us. That's my conspiracy theory.
Now I know how all the Truthers and anti-Vaxxers feel trying to prove their crazy conspiracy theories.
Manmademan
Member
took out the hulk pretty quick though
no one disputes that. Marvel wanted certain things from fox (probably more leeway with the rights tied up with the FF) and fox was playing hardball, asking too much for it or flat out said no. So marvel restricts the merchandising of the xmen characters to hit Fox in the wallet which is pretty much the only thing that would get their attention.
there's no disagreement about any of that, it's obvious to everyone. Where things get crazy is fanboy conspiracy theories about marvel wiping the xmen completely from the marvel universe as a "fuck you" to Fox, or prohibiting the creation of new mutant characters which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Marvel wouldn't do that, because the Xmen are VERY VERY tightly integrated with the way the marvel universe runs and would only fuck themselves in the attempt.
I forgot how that ended. Did Luke take out Proxima?
If your 100+ million dollar film hedges on being marketed on Hot Topic t-shirts. Then you already lost
Team books are disappointing as fuck. Solo books are the real gems.
Hulk in Hickman's run was sort of like Wolverine in Remender's run.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
How'd you get access to Fox's Fantastic 4 business plan???
Manmademan
Member
I wonder if they'll ever address the extra hulk/banner they got from another dimension again
Kluh Returns
torre_avenue
Banned
But don't the licensing rights lay with Marvel in the case of the comic book characters? Then, why wouldn't Marvel license out those specific characters? Or vice versa, why would the company that makes the shirts specifically not buy those characters? Plus, there's the other shirt which replaces the X-Men and FF characters with the Marvel TV heroes and Black Bolt. I'm going to stop while I'm ahead, and just leave it at that. There are just too many excisions of the Fox-owned characters from non-Marvel stuff that it couldn't just be purely financial, in my mind.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Its awesome
Manmademan
Member
Marvel gets a percentage, the rest goes to fox. I don't know what the percentage is.
The exception is spider man, of which they get 100% of all merchandising due to a deal they renegotiated with Sony some time ago.
The link Slayven posted to bleeding cool explicitly points out that Marvel simply chose not to license those characters for use by anyone for any reason, meaning ANY merchandise that references the characters Fox owns would have to edit them out or not use them.
its a very simple explanation, and yes it was purely financial. There was NO reduction in use of the characters Fox owns within the comics themselves, because what goes on there has nothing to do with Fox and Fox doesn't get paid on usage there.
There are limits, but he tried
They're just on different levels when it comes to who they go up against. I mean, you either bring Captain Marvel down to fight Mr. Negative or something, OR you send Peter to space on some silly Parker Industries venture.
Manmademan
Member
They really aren't. Parker has fought just about everyone even before the parker industries business.
It sounds like they're taking that event Remender pitched before he got sent into the Avengers world and running with it. Not surprising since the whole X-Haven and Scott Summers
being "dead" after opposing the Inhumans
From his AMA (coincidentally yesterday) on Reddit:
It's good stuff to draw from because I think Remender's X-Force was one of the best runs on any X-men book post Morrison or Whedon.
I wouldn't say the worst. Fear Itself, Age of Ultron, and Original Sin are arguably just as bad if not worse.
And it's unfortunate, because from Remender's AMA yesterday he all but flat-out says that Marvel torpedoed what he intended AXIS to be. He said he wish he could have cut out half of the cast and didn't have to write the story to feed other authors' stories plot points.
I mean, Carol doesn't deal with small time shit like Peter does. Peter takes on the big guns all the time with or without extra tech. I mean, it could work, but you'd have to tie him into something like The Ultimates which I suppose could work since Parker Industries tech is supposed to be bleeding edge for earth.
Please. Spidey defeated Firelord when he was still herald of Galactus. Don't underestimate him.
Manmademan
Member
and yet, carol isn't really in the weight class of the big guns either- outside of the random times she's able to power up to binary here and there. She's basically 90s rogue, with an inflated sense of self importance.
Carol only bothers with avengers business. Peter handles everything. He can handle everything she can and then some- provided the writers remember to use his intellect which has been much less of a problem recently.
ughhg I hate that example, but there you go.
Guys, I know that Peter can deal with anything, but regardless of Carol's personal strength level she doesn't generally deal with street-level issues/ villains. I mean she could if she wanted to take a break from the Ultimates or something.
edit: writers finally recognizing Spider-Man being capable of science has been such a huge improvement for the character. Especially since he seems to have a strong grip on his business too.
That was bullshitty, but surviving Phoenix Colossus and Phoenix Magik was impressive as fuck.
Manmademan
Member
that doesn't mean that "they're in two different levels in what they take on". Peter is simply less discriminating. Stop a gangster on monday, stop a world class threat on tuesday. World class threats don't give him any more pause than bank robbers do. I mean, we just went through spider verse last year, and Regent has been reintroduced post secret wars. It's not all Hammerhead and Mr. Negative.
The supervillain prison? That was pre-secret wars I though.
Knew it.
Manmademan
Member
nope. the regent prison is post.
For my money, AXIS was easily worse than Fear Itself and Original Sin, whose biggest issues were that they didn't really have a purpose other than to fill the annual event slot. Age of Ultron was garbage. However, that was sort of an aborted event that quietly launched before the much better Infinity. AXIS was billed as being the next big thing in the Marvel universe, when it was pretty evident afterwards that they were really just killing some time until Secret Wars. And it was garbage to top things off.
Well that's unfortunate.
Incidentally, as much as I want a stronger crossover between Parker Industries' Spider-Man and Captain Marvel, I doubt they're ever even going to try again.
Manmademan
Member
yep. i remember writing a rather long post about everything wrong with AXIS but didn't even manage to scratch the surface. the concept itself was flawed from the start, the plot had enough holes to drive a truck through, characters were magically rendered unlikeable with no consistent characterization between books (Storm and the Xmen wanted to murder all humans in the main books, but were just kinda grouchy elsewhere) other characters (dr strange) vanished inexplicably early on, never to be seen for a month or more in comic time when their presence could have solved the issue, it ignored the existence of cyclops' team completely etc etc
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
That happened in his solo. They should have never brought him back to earth
Supermanisdead
Member
well, they had to finally agree to reason and let the xmen thrive. especially when xmen apocalypse might be one of the biggest movies of 2016. good job marvel.
Manmademan
Member
the solo series kind of lost me honestly. gave it a shot for a good half dozen issues but it just wasn't working for me.
The new direction they're taking with teen scott having to live in the wake of all the shit that
dead
eh...I dunno about all that. The highest grossing xmen movie made about as much as the 4th or 5th highest marvel movie. Apocalypse doesn't have a prayer of coming anywhere close to Civil war or BvS.
the fuck was that about? lol
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Im already tired of the o5 having to deal with the shit their current counterparts have done.
Supermanisdead
Member
it won't beat those films, but 750mil and a 91% on RT for DOFP is something marvel can't ignore.
Manmademan
Member
honestly it doesn't mean that much to them, since Marvel isn't getting the majority of the revenues or merchandising from those films. no one is EXACTLY sure how much revenue they're making from the Xmen films, but The wall street journal puts it at 5%. Yes, FIVE.
If true, this is chump change compared to even what Hulk and Thor 1 brought in. It would take twenty years of Xmen films at 700+ million before they saw revenue that matched what they brought in from GOTG alone.
Spiderman works on all levels. Thanos the mad titan, a being versed in all things cosmic and mystical, power enough to make concepts quake, when he is down and the clock is running out, who does he call? The Goddamn Spiderman
Spiderman is the living embodiment of this gif
Supermanisdead
Member
its more about the comics than movie production. comic sales are quite low so anything that brings in money to that side of their business is going to get the editors interested in those potential sales. xmen being in the public eye, no matter the production company, is important to the dozens of people writing, illustrating and editing those comics.
Seductivpancakes
Member
Cool more X-men.
Rereading Avengers Vs X-men. The best parts are when the Thing punches Namor in the face.
Rereading Avengers Vs X-men. The best parts are when the Thing punches Namor in the face.
NobleXenon
Member
RIP Mutants.
I hardly knew ye.
I hardly knew ye.
Manmademan
Member
it's been pointed out in the thread before, but in case you weren't aware there is little to no crossover between movie performance and comic book sales. it simply doesn't happen. We've seen this repeatedly as far back as the O.G. Xmen and Spider Man films. Marvel used to try to align the comics more with the movies to appeal to new readers- they ceased bothering about a decade back.
As for comic sales- they're actually at record highs not seen since the early 90s- but the majority of the money isn't in single issue sales anymore, but trades+digital. so the volume is there, and its sustainable and not reliant on speculator bubbles as was the case in 1992.
The fact that both studios announced they were using Quicksilver almost at the same time was kind of funny to me.
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