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[McNum]

No, Spiderman's 4th is different. I support Future Foundation costume, or Noir though. Both are awesome.

Different, yes, but obviously based on it. Black with neon green spider motive with the legs stretching across the costume? That's on both costumes. Remember that all the original costumes are texture swaps, it has to have the same shape as good ol' red and blue Spider-Man, so costume four is the closest they can get.

 

[Kimosabae]

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

 

[corrosivefrost]

as long as the DHC trick is there, sentinel is still ridiculously good and wont leave teams of players who know whats up

Pretty sure I said this earlier. :3

The catch is now that if you can get in on Sentinel it doesn't take 7 combos to kill the fucker. He's just more like Phoenix now. You catch a hit on Phoenix (either form) and don't drop the combo? The quarterback is toast. I like the nerf. It's not like they gave him Arthur or Akuma health either... he's still above average.

 

[enzo_gt]

BESERKER CHARGE + LEVEL 2 X-FACTOR WOLVERINE AGAINST SENTINEL.

GET
BLOWN
UP.

Health dropped like DP against Zero.

Different, yes, but obviously based on it. Black with neon green spider motive with the legs stretching across the costume? That's on both costumes. Remember that all the original costumes are texture swaps, it has to have the same shape as good ol' red and blue Spider-Man, so costume four is the closest they can get.

I remember that costume being touted pre-release as either completely original or derivative of a costume that looks exactly like it at the time, but certainly not like the one posted above.

EDIT: For clarity:

 

[Mumei]

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

Do you oppose patching in general, or this specific patch?

 

[shaowebb]

Different, yes, but obviously based on it. Black with neon green spider motive with the legs stretching across the costume? That's on both costumes. Remember that all the original costumes are texture swaps, it has to have the same shape as good ol' red and blue Spider-Man, so costume four is the closest they can get.

Not really. They proved with the last dlc costume pack that the shapes of characters can change drastically for an outfit safely. Cap's shield got a huge shape and size change with no difference in his play and Iron Patriot version of Iron man has entirely redesigned shoulders.

This give my insane hope for a Scarlet Spider someday.

 

[MThanded]

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

really!?

 

[dankir]

GEt in on this action
http://www.justin.tv/jaxelrod#/

ZOMG at Keyboard cat... WHY DON'T ANY OF THESE GUYS BLOCK THE SENTINEL FRYING PAN!!@?!@

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

Bull fuckingshit man, you can still play him the same way, if you were good with him before you'll still be good with him now. You need to be more careful with him now. If you were a spammer before then your going to eat it, this has nothing to do with competitive legitimacy.

It is what it is. People just need to play smarter with Sentinel now.

 

[enzo_gt]

Damn, that Keyboard cat was so appropriate hahahaa, that X-23 brought the heat while under pressure.

cheesedicks: holy shit it's a mexican marn

:lol

 

[McNum]

Not really. They proved with the last dlc costume pack that the shapes of characters can change drastically for an outfit safely. Cap's shield got a huge shape and size change with no difference in his play and Iron Patriot version of Iron man has entirely redesigned shoulders.

This give my insane hope for a Scarlet Spider someday.

I said the original costumes. All the DLC ones are obviously model changes, but none of the original costumes are. Well, with one exception: Cap loses the little wings on his head in his Punisher outfit. Probably done by coloring them with an invisible texture.

Also looking at the costumes again, the new Spider-Man one in the comics is gold and black, isn't it? I hate being colorblind some times.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I don't know if the nerf makes Sent completely useless or not. TBH it still seems like he's gonna be a pretty good character that's going to still fit well on a lot of teams. My big issue with the patch is that for a fighting game, a month is way too soon to start rebalancing stuff either way.

 

[MThanded]

Sentinel is dominating still at The Break. All is well in the the land of mindless robots.

 

[Semblance]

Dude's X-23 just ripped through Sent's health. I love it.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

This is a pretty good way to articulate what I've been feeling.

It's fun to know that all the effort you put into learning a match-up and turning it in your favor largely goes to waste like this.

 

[enzo_gt]

This stream is fucking incredible. So much unique shit going on here, just like the announcers said.

 

[MThanded]

This is a pretty good way to articulate what I've been feeling.

It's fun to know that all the effort you put into learning a match-up and turning it in your favor largely goes to waste like this.

This is the future of gaming. Devs are not gonna sit around when they can patch things they think are broken.

How does dude even hold the arcade stick? Its like vertical in his lap. No way I could play like that.

 

[Nose Master]

Sent wasn't even a problem. 99% of Sentinels are idiots and use him only for his assist / braindead 100% combos. I'd prefer an XF or Dark Phoenix nerf, really.

 

[Darkman M]

This is a pretty good way to articulate what I've been feeling.

It's fun to know that all the effort you put into learning a match-up and turning it in your favor largely goes to waste like this.

Only thing that changes is he takes a combo less to kill, still the same sent, still the scrub killer.

 

[Kai Dracon]

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

This is a pretty good way to articulate what I've been feeling.

It's fun to know that all the effort you put into learning a match-up and turning it in your favor largely goes to waste like this.

Wow, this is overselling the crisis of the situation.

Sent's offense wasn't nerfed. The way Sentinel works wasn't changed. Lowering his health doesn't punish people who learned how to fight him correctly. It rewards them because now, they don't have to use their technology AND waste 2 or more meters just to grind down his huge health and eventually kill him. Now, people who know how to take out Sentinel are a huge threat because they can get in, and blow him up with certainty, I'd imagine.

This is a phenomenon that happens with competitive games; people who feel they put a lot of effort into figuring something out get unduly prickly if they at all perceive it has been made "easier" down the line. It's an emotional reaction, understandable, but not always rational. If people want to be proud of the fact that in addition to figuring out how to fight Sentinel, they also get to waste time, meter, resources, to finish killing the bugger off, then go ahead. But you can't expect everyone else to see that as sensible.

All this talk about fighting game patches "undermining legitimacy" that's running rampant... honestly, it looks like wild reactionary talk. Other competitive game genres didn't just survive stuff like this - they thrive on it.

There's a very bad IMHO meme firing up in the fighting game community right now that everyone else who plays competitive games is a weeny because THEIR games get "patched all the time lol 'cause of whiners". This is a purely defensive reaction at the future finally catching up to maybe the last competitive genre that got left out.

I realize there is a manly-man "learn da game in da hood" attitude that the FG scene is steeped in, especially because of the offline communities that kept these games on life support when they lost relevancy. I suppose it is impossible that these communities and folks in them, will be capable of accepting any change to their paradigms without seeing it as an attack on their core principles. Lotsa folks are turned very inward after all this time.

But hell; look at what just happened. A single character in one game, received possibly the safest balance adjustment possible - a hit point reduction - and there's a 500 post and counting freakout on a hardcore site (SRK) within 12 hours. That's not defending the integrity of the "sport". That's insular, nearly inbred attitudes cracking at the seams.

 

[Kimosabae]

Do you oppose patching in general, or this specific patch?

I don't oppose anything in an absolute sense, but I definitely see it as something that should only be considered as a last resort. Allowing the Sentinel metagame to stretch passed a few weeks could have given the community as a whole a chance to grow and see how these competitive values in fighting games developed.

Pandering every time a Sagat/Sent/Yun etc. shows up in a scene only neuters the younger generation and eliminates a lot of the grit, trials and adversity necessary to indoctrinate some of these players into the competitive mindset. It's not about beating players with names, it's about beating the strong tactics they employ. Rarely, if EVER, is a tactic/strategy TRULY so strong that it undermines a vast majority of the game.

 

[MThanded]

I would be salty as hell. WOW at that comeback lol

People are blowing this patch out of proportion. These fools still having fun playing on the stream, people will have fun tomorrow at wnf and at evo(we may even see a few more before then). Everyone will live. Hypeness will remain.

Welcome to the new age. MK is even worse they can patch without an official dlc patch.

 

[dankir]

I would be salty as hell. WOW at that comeback lol

Why didn't he X factor into another Chaotic flame?? THat would of been a perfect way to kill a Deadpool spammer like that lol.

 

[Incendiary]

My main issue with the Sent nerf outside the uncomfortable precedence it sets, is the fact that individuals that actually took the time and effort to learn how to fight the character - largely get robbed of their efforts to show how vulnerable Sentinel truly was/is. Maybe he'll still be considered a great character with the nerf - but why shouldn't those people be upset/concerned? Who the fuck with any kind of merit even wants to play a game that pandering? The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

See I actually feel the opposite. Before I tried to avoid using Sentinel because I felt like he was overpowered and kind of cheap. It made me a lot lazier whenever I tried playing with him. Not saying this is the case for all Sentinels, of course, but I really avoided using Sentinel at all.

Now I feel like I could try and learn Sentinel because you have to be more strategic with him. With the nerf, there's going to be less "oh god, not another Sentinel." In fact, the health drop might actually create more opportunities because people will think Sentinel is weaker and get lax in their game.

Just hypotheses though. I'm ambivalent overall towards the nerf because Sentinel never really factored into the teams I'm working on. I actually didn't run into too many Sentinels online while playing, either, so.

 

[shaowebb]

lol at the two phoenixes with only 2 or less meters sluggin it out like it's rocky at the end of that last match.

Hit
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!

POW!
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!


Hilariously bad fight at the end.

 

[enzo_gt]

DAMN That Healing Sphere nearly negates damage.

Still some lame Phoenix play otherwise going on.

 

[MThanded]

That is smart usage of healing field. You can basically nullify a rushdown characters damage to phoenix.

 

[dankir]

lol okay I thought that was Justin Wong for a bit. This Wong any good??

 

[NinajHeartless]

Haven't been able to post or play in a long time due to school work and work work...

I jumped on Xbox Live for about 2 or 3 hours today and got my shit ripped apart...

I am in need of some serious training

 

[Deleted member 13876]

The patch looks to undermine them and any ideas of competitive legitimacy. It's actions like this that makes this whole competitive gaming thing look completely stupid.

So something like Starcraft never gets patched? God forbid Capcom try to fix their game. I may not be the most hardcore of players and it seems many of them are raging at the scrubs for bringing this upon them, but I do very much enjoy this game and am fine with Capcom attempting to balance things. The last few weeks I loved watching the tourney streams and while true that no Sentinel really crushed any finals it was damn boring seeing 75% of the teams there use the character.

 

[Kimosabae]

Wow, this is overselling the crisis of the situation.

Sent's offense wasn't nerfed. The way Sentinel works wasn't changed. Lowering his health doesn't punish people who learned how to fight him correctly. It rewards them because now, they don't have to use their technology AND waste 2 or more meters just to grind down his huge health and eventually kill him. Now, people who know how to take out Sentinel are a huge threat because they can get in, and blow him up with certainty, I'd imagine.

This is a phenomenon that happens with competitive games; people who feel they put a lot of effort into figuring something out get unduly prickly if they at all perceive it has been made "easier" down the line. It's an emotional reaction, understandable, but not always rational. If people want to be proud of the fact that in addition to figuring out how to fight Sentinel, they also get to waste time, meter, resources, to finish killing the bugger off, then go ahead. But you can't expect everyone else to see that as sensible.

All this talk about fighting game patches "undermining legitimacy" that's running rampant... honestly, it looks like wild reactionary talk. Other competitive game genres didn't just survive stuff like this - they thrive on it.

There's a very bad IMHO meme firing up in the fighting game community right now that everyone else who plays competitive games is a weeny because THEIR games get "patched all the time lol 'cause of whiners". This is a purely defensive reaction at the future finally catching up to maybe the last competitive genre that got left out.

I realize there is a manly-man "learn da game in da hood" attitude that the FG scene is steeped in, especially because of the offline communities that kept these games on life support when they lost relevancy. I suppose it is impossible that these communities and folks in them, will be capable of accepting any change to their paradigms without seeing it as an attack on their core principles. Lotsa folks are turned very inward after all this time.

But hell; look at what just happened. A single character in one game, received possibly the safest balance adjustment possible - a hit point reduction - and there's a 500 post and counting freakout on a hardcore site (SRK) within 12 hours. That's not defending the integrity of the "sport". That's insular, nearly inbred attitudes cracking at the seams.

Obviously, these are good points, but none of them supplant the idea that definitive strategies/anti-strategies only develop with time and events that stimulate progress. Like I said, it may be true that the character is still good and will simply require only a slightly different approach to be successful, but I feel robbed of a potential anti-Sentinel usage strain that validates a whole lot of people that simply decided to buckle the fuck down and learn something instead of typing in caps on the internet. <---This would be a great lesson learned for a whole lot of people.

Instead, the most obvious lesson on display ATM is: "Bitch a lot to corporations and your frustrations will be mitigated".

 

[MThanded]

Obviously, these are good points, but none of them supplant the idea that definitive strategies/anti-strategies only develop with time and events that stimulate progress. Like I said, it may be true that the character is still good and will simply require only a slightly different approach to be successful, but I feel robbed of a potential anti-Sentinel usage strain that validates a whole lot of people that simply decided to buckle the fuck down and learn something instead of typing in caps on the internet. <---This would be a great lesson learned for a whole lot of people.

Instead, the most obvious lesson on display ATM is: "Bitch a lot to corporations and your frustrations will be mitigated".

No.
Correlation does not mean causation


Edit: OMG at that match

 

[enzo_gt]

Hahahaha, these cautious Sentinels are hilarious to watch. SO much more defensive than before.

 

[dankir]

Oh fuck what a comeback by wesker!@?!@?!?@!?@?!


HAHAHAHAH These fucking commentators.

WE JUST GOT A REAL MATCH, LETS GO ?@#?@#?

 

[Semblance]

Damn @ dat turn around.

 

[enzo_gt]

CHRIS MUTHAPHUKKIN G

 

[Kimosabae]

No.
Correlation does not mean causation

Right, but the inferences being made by the evidence on display is much stronger in support of the patch being at least partly reactionary, than the other theory; while sounding reasonable, presents just about no evidence.

 

[Kai Dracon]

So something like Starcraft never gets patched? God forbid Capcom try to fix their game. I may not be the most hardcore of players and it seems many of them are raging at the scrubs for bringing this upon them, but I do very much enjoy this game and am fine with Capcom attempting to balance things. The last few weeks I loved watching the tourney streams and while true that no Sentinel really crushed any finals it was damn boring seeing 75% of the teams there use the character.

Some of the bitching actually just shows how adversarial and cynical people are at the companies who make the games they claim to love.

It's as if they can't conceive ANYONE at Capcom has the tiniest bit of competency. That the team assigned to post-release support for this game should be allowed to continue to improve it*. Or that they're anything but whimpering slaves to whiny people on message boards.

The ultimate irony of Sentinelgate? That it's just as likely this vicious assault on the integrity of gaming was put in place weeks before the internet exploded in cries over Sentinel, a time bomb sitting in update certification for four weeks before deploying.

And if so, then this great offense is nothing more that post-release clean-up.

Of course, that's the problem with it being Sentinel that got tweaked. The character represents a massive straw man argument about whiny gamers being weak-willed. Thanks to it, nobody could make a legitimate argument that Sentinel might have really needed an adjustment sooner than later. And any attempt to fix what might be a legitimate problem will be rationalized as pandering to online players using Sentinel scrub teams.


*Clarification: anything to improve that is their own idea. Certainly, they should instantly and within five business days design, code, and integrity check every single feature the expert gamer demands. Spectator mode or bust, baby. But they are not allowed to do anything they think is a good idea, like turn a health slider down. It's not like they're game designers or anything.

 

[MThanded]

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooh sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit

Some of the bitching actually just shows how adversarial and cynical people are at the companies who make the games they claim to love.

It's as if they can't conceive ANYONE at Capcom has the tiniest bit of competency. That the team assigned to post-release support for this game should be allowed to continue to improve it. Or that they're anything but whimpering slaves to whiny people on message boards.

The ultimate irony of Sentinelgate? That it's just as likely this vicious assault on the integrity of gaming was put in place weeks before the internet exploded in cries over Sentinel, a time bomb sitting in update certification for four weeks before deploying.

And if so, then this great offense is nothing more that post-release clean-up.

Of course, that's the problem with it being Sentinel that got tweaked. The character represents a massive straw man argument about whiny gamers being weak-willed. Thanks to it, nobody could make a legitimate argument that Sentinel might have really needed an adjustment sooner than later. And any attempt to fix what might be a legitimate problem will be rationalized as pandering to online players using Sentinel scrub teams.

 

[enzo_gt]

Random James' Dormammu is the most boss shit ever.

That got tense and then James blew em up.

 

[QisTopTier]

7 frame jabs?

And people still cant block It's a different type of game, jabs are not mashed out unless you are using bang lol

btw marvel has 5-6 frame jabs

 

[MThanded]

Power of the Power of the Power of the *sword to the face*

 

[hitsugi]

really starting to like dorm..

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I completely understand the argument about letting the metagame evolve, but letting the metagame center around countering one specific character holds back the same creativity people are claiming now gets punished. Though the patch may have been stuck in certification for a while, this was probably no overnight decision for Capcom and I suspect they had quite a bit of field data to support a nerfing. That's how I feel and again I'm no expert, I still relatively suck at this game but am genuinely trying to get better.

 

[dankir]

Who are these commentators?? Dude's are fucking hilarious!!

 

[MThanded]

Marlin pie shenanigans incoming


Noel brown does not give a shit about the nerf.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

What stream is everyone watching?

 

[MThanded]

What stream is everyone watching?

http://www.justin.tv/jaxelrod#/

 

[vg260]

I realize there is a manly-man "learn da game in da hood" attitude that the FG scene is steeped in, especially because of the offline communities that kept these games on life support when they lost relevancy. I suppose it is impossible that these communities and folks in them, will be capable of accepting any change to their paradigms without seeing it as an attack on their core principles. Lotsa folks are turned very inward after all this time.

But hell; look at what just happened. A single character in one game, received possibly the safest balance adjustment possible - a hit point reduction - and there's a 500 post and counting freakout on a hardcore site (SRK) within 12 hours. That's not defending the integrity of the "sport". That's insular, nearly inbred attitudes cracking at the seams.

Once again, I love your posts.

 

[dankir]

Marlin pie shenanigans incoming


Noel brown does not give a shit about the nerf.

Yo this is a crazy viper1@?! Wow

edit: Damn whose this Marlin dude?? Crazy

 

[MThanded]

MarlinPie jeeze wtf son

Edit: Wow that infinite is ridiculous.