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[McNum]

So is it okay to have bad netcode? If they really cared about online players, pretty sure we'd have a better one right now.

I don't think I mentioned the netcode. Because of course not. If you're making a game so online focused that the first question you see when you start the game is "Online or offline?" then you should have netcode to back it up. Obviously. However, the quality of the netcode doesn't change that a lot more people are going to be playing this online than going to a tournament. So the question could fast become if Capcom want to balance towards the few best of the best, or towards the many paying the bills?

Ideally, there'd be a v1.10 or whatever that improves the netcode and makes this point nearly moot, but I'm not holding my breath on that. Then there's the horrible thought that perhaps a lot of people find it "good enough" as is.

And that's the real kicker, isn't it? If the game in the eyes of the casual players have "good enough" balance and "good enough" netcode, then Capcom don't actually need to improve it. They might do so anyway, to appease the core fans, yes, but if it's just for the money, they don't have to.

But yeah, I'm surprised at the rage against this idea, too. The very idea that Capcom might actually have done datamining on the millions of match results available to them from online play apparently is quite unpopular. Maybe someone should ask Seth on how the decision to cut 400k HP from Sentinel came about?

 

[jdub03]

People on the WNF stream are saying that random freezes have been occuring post-patch. Has anyone else experienced this?

I actually have while playing online. I think I got the disconnect penalty for it too.

Edit: I knew Thor was good because I got bodied by him online. He did a lot of reset/mixup throws in the air. Thor will be a beast when he is completely figured out.

 

[darkblade77]

So is it okay to have bad netcode? If they really cared about online players, pretty sure we'd have a better one right now.

Bringing up netcode is kinda empty since nobody knows how difficult/feasible it is to contextually make it 'good' for this game. We know there are good 'methods' like GGPO's approach and that they can be applied to some fighting games, but not much more than that. If leaving spectator mode out really was a feasibility issue like stated before, then MvC3 netplay might have been its own beast in terms of time/money to implement past what the game was originally given.

Or they could also not care. There's too little information to seriously call why it's subpar, although we can all agree it sucks.

I think McNum has a point in that Capcom is probably going to make at least some 'balance changes' that make the game more appealing to the majority of people who bought the game; i.e. not people who play competitively. They're a business first, right? Honestly, Sentinel players should be happy that they went with such a superficial nerf instead of something that would actually cripple the character. The lost health definitely hurts him; it weakens his anchor position and forces you to make less mistakes with him and calling his assist, but coming out of a nerf bat swing with 0 tools lost/affected is pretty good.

 

[shaowebb]

If Deadpool's assist hit low, he'd be one of the top tier characters for sure.

This. A million times over. If it worked like Torpedo he would be huge. Before launch I thought it was a low

Also, here's hoping you get that 3gp converted to gif or something Beard. I can't wait to see some of that Thor.

Too bad your ps3 though...im 360 and would love running into ya.

ps- have you tried using quicktime or downloading a trial of adobe premier to convert?

 

[GotchaForce]

This. A million times over. If it worked like Torpedo he would be huge. Before launch I thought it was a low

Katana-rama doesn't hit low?

 

[Ferrio]

Still trying thor out, and I'm still saying he sucks. His shit gets stuffed so easily.

Also I'm curious why spiderman has such a huge hitstun decay. It isn't like he's a powerhouse per hit... so why are they limiting his combo potential so much?

 

[Prototype-03]

Katana-rama doesn't hit low?

It does.

edit: Doesn't hit low, but OTG's

 

[dralla]

his quick work assist hits low. katana-rama assist OTG's.

I think She Hulk, Wesker and X-23 are the only people with assists that hit low and OTG

 

[JeTmAn81]

Remember that hitstun deteriorates as the combo goes along. So you can't combo from the OTG unless the combo meter is ~4-5 hits. Even then its a tight window to land that c.mp.

This may explain why some of the combo stuff I've been attempting with Dante doesn't work the way I want it to. Basically, Dante has a great go-to OTG move anytime there's a knockdown:

Wild Stomp (H plus Down-Forward) into Prop Shredder (S)

Which then is a launcher. This is very easily done every time, but my problem comes after the launch. I'd like to go for the full air series (L,L,M,H) before hitting the Killer Bee (angular diving move) to knock them back down and get a ground bounce for the relaunch, but the timing is pretty unreliable. I can pull it off sometimes, but even when I do, after the relaunch I'm not able to reliably pull off the Sky Dance (whirling move that hits a bunch of times on the way down).

What would be the best sequence of hits for pulling off both Killer Bee and Sky Dance in the two launches of Dante's main BnB sequence like this? I know I've seen people do it online, but I have a tough time hitting them the right number of times with the right speed in order to pull it off, especially the Sky Dance at the end.

Currently, I'm just sticking with a M, H after the first launch into the Killer Bee, then just cancelling into Reverb Shock and then Fireworks on the ground. I can pull all this off reliably, but I'd really like to be able to extend this stuff.

 

[Prototype-03]

his quick work assist hits low. katana-rama assist OTG's.

I think She Hulk, Wesker and X-23 are the only people with assists that hit low and OTG

Wesker has the best assist in that regard because it's quick. X-23's is probably the worst out of the 3 because she takes a while to set up the low and gets hit out of it A LOT (plus you need to input the assist ASAP to OTG or else it gets dropped because it's so slow).

 

[Karsticles]

Wesker has the best assist in that regard because it's quick. X-23's is probably the worst out of the 3 because she takes a while to set up the low and gets hit out of it A LOT (plus you need to input the assist ASAP to OTG or else it gets dropped because it's so slow).

It depends on the character you use it with. If you're rushing, then yeah, X-23's is pretty bad. If you play a teleporter though, the "running" low OTGs can be used to set up post-teleport unblockables, and it's actually really nice. For just the OTG, yeah, it's pretty bad.

 

["God's Beard!"]

his quick work assist hits low. katana-rama assist OTG's.

I think She Hulk, Wesker and X-23 are the only people with assists that hit low and OTG

quick work does not hit low as an assist. I tested it. That's why I said he'd be top tier if it did.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

No prob, the fix to the health reduction is to make sent Ammy sized. A tiny robot with less health makes a lot of sense. BUT KEEP HIS DAMAGE!

Yes! They could use the charcter model from his Sentinel Force. And then when you do Sentinel Force, it fires big Sentinels.

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

Hmm played a good sentinel the other day, the nerf did not fix one thing. The HUGE problem is still damage and the fact he can super you 2 times in a row without xfactor. Kept loosing characters to touch of death from easy combos. Nerf didn't fix any of the problems from this character...

 

[Ferrio]

Hmm played a good sentinel the other day, the nerf did not fix one thing. The HUGE problem is still damage and the fact he can super you 2 times in a row without xfactor. Kept loosing characters to touch of death from easy combos. Nerf didn't fix any of the problems from this character...

I think it did. Thing is his combos are easy, and very damaging but he has to land them first which can be a bitch if their opponent knows what they're doing. That much extra health is that many more times they can try to get in that one combo, as well as more assist shenanigans. Even though I wouldn't shed a tear if he was removed from the game, I do think his health should of been at a million instead.

It was just disheartening to be running down a sent like no tommorow, beating the shit outta them senseless and then only seeing them at 1/3rd health. Then all it takes is that one boot and your character is now lower in health/dead. The reward/risk for him was just waaaaay to lopsided.

 

[the_log_ride]

No prob, the fix to the health reduction is to make sent Ammy sized. A tiny robot with less health makes a lot of sense. BUT KEEP HIS DAMAGE!

This 'fix' would be hilarious. Make Sent the size of his drones... haha

edit: beaten

Yes! They could use the charcter model from his Sentinel Force. And then when you do Sentinel Force, it fires big Sentinels.

DELICIOUS SUGGESTION

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

I think it did. Thing is his combos are easy, and very damaging but he has to land them first which can be a bitch if their opponent knows what they're doing. That much extra health is that many more times they can try to get in that one combo, as well as more assist shenanigans. Even though I wouldn't shed a tear if he was removed from the game, I do think his health should of been at a million instead.

It was just disheartening to be running down a sent like no tommorow, beating the shit outta them senseless and then only seeing them at 1/3rd health. Then all it takes is that one boot and your character is now lower in health/dead. The reward/risk for him was just waaaaay to lopsided.

It did help in that department, but wow at his damage output, 2 supers in a row for free, flight, super armor and xfactor damage and speed... pair him with a good assist like doom missiles or that shuma full screen laser and he is a force to be reckon with even with low health. Sent on point can be scary...

 

[Threi]

maybe i'm just seeing things but it looks like tron spins the joystick on her robot like how players tend to do before a match. Right at the versus screen, before the match starts. (you can see it if you put her on point)

 

[Dahbomb]

Some MVC3 facts/stats on Achievements

 

[Prototype-03]

Some MVC3 facts/stats on Achievements

Beaten a while ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26673631&postcount=5236

 

["God's Beard!"]

I found a new trick with Thor

Almost completely worthless, but people will shit themselves when they see it. Or chuckle, maybe?

 

[McNum]

maybe i'm just seeing things but it looks like tron spins the joystick on her robot like how players tend to do before a match. Right at the versus screen, before the match starts. (you can see it if you put her on point)

Sharp eyes. She does spin the joystick just as the VS screen blurs/fades out. Unfortunately it doesn't look like how she moves the control sticks while fighting makes any sense. Too bad, it would have been a fun little detail.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Magneto/Dante/Phoenix aren't going to dominate Online play.

They are too demanding on the player execution and skill wise, plus with the netcode and online conditions characters like these will not be seeing that high win ratios. Sentinel was the ultimate "online" character to use, even if you knew how to fight against him you could easily fuck up and he would punish you for the kill.

This is madness with the exception of Magneto. Dante has long-ass combos which are easy to execute, Phoenix is the same. The fact both of them have strong teleport mix-ups, not just with assists but also solo to makes them idea online due to them being that blocking is harder.

Hell, X-Factor Dark Phoenix has always been the most broken piece of shit in the game. Regular Phoenix is borderline in the hands on the right player, the mix of homing air-fireballs and utterly safe 50-50 fireballs mix-ups (which will kill a character with one hit in x-factor) makes her utterly ludicrous. Unless your character has some serious anti-Phoenix tech you're fucked. Even with it a Pheonix who knows how to deal with it is still going to be a real chore...

Anyone have some decent anti-Phoenix starts?

 

[Dahbomb]

The Thor teasing is heart breaking.

I want Thor to rip shit up so bad.

And I have finally decided on my first reserve team: Storm/Wesker/Dormammu. Whirlwind/Low Shot/Black Hole. I alternate between Storm/Wesker on point depending on who I feel like opening with or if I want to exploit the DHC trick or not. There isn't any UBER TEAM SYNERGY other than it's 3 really solid characters who can tackle a lot of situations and are all good on their own with something to add to the team.

I basically do a lot of BnB combos with these teams and save meter for punishing and other stuff, especially for the end with Dormammy + Storm for the chip factor. I normally do a very standard rushdown game with Storm/Wesker but can switch gears to "cheese" opponents with Storm/Dorm.

Storm was my main in MVC2 and out of all the cast I still feel the most comfortable with her. Wesker I like cuz he is the closest to Vergil and he is surprisingly easy to pick up and play (plus the bad ass factor). Dorm I added in cuz I dig him and feel that I can grow with him in the game.

 

[Dartastic]

I found a new trick with Thor

Almost completely worthless, but people will shit themselves when they see it. Or chuckle, maybe?

Are you on 360? I need to see some Thor tricks. My original team was going to be Thor, Ammy, and Phoenix but I didn't think that Thor worked well in that team, and I wasn't enjoying playing as him, so I put Sent in. Then he got nerfed. So uh, yeah. I'd love to see/learn some stuff and see if I can make Thor work now that I'm better with Ammy and Phoenix.

 

[Ferrio]

Are you on 360? I need to see some Thor tricks. My original team was going to be Thor, Ammy, and Phoenix but I didn't think that Thor worked well in that team, and I wasn't enjoying playing as him, so I put Sent in. Then he got nerfed. So uh, yeah. I'd love to see/learn some stuff and see if I can make Thor work now that I'm better with Ammy and Phoenix.

Me too, everytime I use him I get my ass torn wide open. So I wanna know what magical thing I'm missing.

 

[Karsticles]

Me too, everytime I use him I get my ass torn wide open. So I wanna know what magical thing I'm missing

My surprisingly effective Thor strategy to get him to 30 games for the title, many of which I OCVed against online randoms: sj.H all the way down from the top of the screen, and hope it hits. Endless amusement as people somehow get hit by it over and over.

Spoiler

I know this is a dumb strategy.

 

[darkblade77]

Closest thing I've seen to a competent Thor is this video. You see a lot of tridashes and Mighty Strike use for mobility and controlling space, and some decent throw setups. Plus some nice DHCs from Tron into Mighty Punish for the scaling reset.

 

[Dartastic]

Closest thing I've seen to a competent Thor is this video. You see a lot of tridashes and Mighty Strike use for mobility and controlling space, and some decent throw setups. Plus some nice DHCs from Tron into Mighty Punish for the scaling reset.

...and then you get to see Ammy do what she does best, which is take people apart.

 

[darkblade77]

Indeed. Gotta say, slow super on Thor just seems sort of inhumane and cruel.

 

[Ferrio]

Closest thing I've seen to a competent Thor is this video. You see a lot of tridashes and Mighty Strike use for mobility and controlling space, and some decent throw setups. Plus some nice DHCs from Tron into Mighty Punish for the scaling reset.

Ya, seen those before. Seems the only time he can do damage if he gets in a lucky S he threw out or if his air mighty strike hits. Otherwise he just gets picked apart easily.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah that Thor is pretty bad. So much gross unsafe stuff for no reason.

My surprisingly effective Thor strategy to get him to 30 games for the title, many of which I OCVed against online randoms: sj.H all the way down from the top of the screen, and hope it hits. Endless amusement as people somehow get hit by it over and over.

Spoiler

I know this is a dumb strategy.

Cancel the jump H into air mighty strike M on block or hit, it'll give you a second to decide what to do, and if you hit you can get a juggle combo.

 

[JeTmAn81]

My surprisingly effective Thor strategy to get him to 30 games for the title, many of which I OCVed against online randoms: sj.H all the way down from the top of the screen, and hope it hits. Endless amusement as people somehow get hit by it over and over.

Spoiler

I know this is a dumb strategy.

I do this all the time with Dante's jumping S. It's amazing how often it gets a knockdown, and then it's off to the races.

 

[Ferrio]

Yeah that Thor is pretty bad. So much gross unsafe stuff for no reason.

He has no choice, all of Thor's shit is pretty unsafe.

Will you be able to play tonight?

 

[Karsticles]

Cancel the jump H into air mighty strike M on block or hit, it'll give you a second to decide what to do, and if you hit you can get a juggle combo.

Thanks for the tip (though I hate Thor, and will probably never put it to good use).

I do this all the time with Dante's jumping S. It's amazing how often it gets a knockdown, and then it's off to the races.

For some reason, Dante's j.S makes my brain say "block low!" I don't know why, and it's maddeningly frustrating.

 

[darkblade77]

Neither team was particularly great, but outside of that video the little I've seen of Thor in competitive matches is a combo video exhibition, and it sure isn't Thor's video. :/

 

[dralla]

what are the asus monitors that are used at tourneys?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

So I'm gradually getting better at combos in training mode (like I can do what I think is Zero's b&b, single launch combo ending with OTG super), but when I play people online I generally can't do them. I either can't find an opening, don't hit-confirm anything, or if I do try a combo I drop it after a few hits. Generally the best I pull off online is basic stuff like hit-confirming Ryu's hurricane kick into shinku hadoken. Any advice on something I should work on to help with this?

 

[JeTmAn81]

Thanks for the tip (though I hate Thor, and will probably never put it to good use).


For some reason, Dante's j.S makes my brain say "block low!" I don't know why, and it's maddeningly frustrating.

Unfortunately, it's not really a viable long-term strategy since most people will eventually be able to adjust to the blocking pattern. But I think it's actually pretty good for using from a short distance away after a normal jump since in that case I still have some time to recover if it's blocked. It can hit from pretty far away.

 

[sixteen-bit]

what are the asus monitors that are used at tourneys?

VH236H was what they used at Evo 2009 and are popular at other tourneys.

 

["God's Beard!"]

He has no choice, all of Thor's shit is pretty unsafe.

Will you be able to play tonight?

Uhhh, did you miss the post a couple pages back where I took everything people mentioned and said how to turn it safe? People are acting like frame data doesn't exist.

Yeah, I should be able to play late tonight.

 

[Dahbomb]

This is madness with the exception of Magneto. Dante has long-ass combos which are easy to execute, Phoenix is the same. The fact both of them have strong teleport mix-ups, not just with assists but also solo to makes them idea online due to them being that blocking is harder.

Hell, X-Factor Dark Phoenix has always been the most broken piece of shit in the game. Regular Phoenix is borderline in the hands on the right player, the mix of homing air-fireballs and utterly safe 50-50 fireballs mix-ups (which will kill a character with one hit in x-factor) makes her utterly ludicrous. Unless your character has some serious anti-Phoenix tech you're fucked. Even with it a Pheonix who knows how to deal with it is still going to be a real chore...

Anyone have some decent anti-Phoenix starts?

I would only agree that Dark Phoenix rapes online but getting her out is difficult, even for top players.

Dante is a high execution character unless you are satisfied with doing Day 1 BnB combos. That's pretty much accepted. Stuff like Stinger into Bold Cancel Volcano Bold cancel air M, M, Air guitar, air dash, M, Killer Bee, launcher, air combo, OTG with Cold Shower etc. Hell even doing some of his moves that require you to do a move twice is hard as hell to do online because you miss the frame window for it.

Anti-Phoenix strats: Since they don't use X Factor or meter, punish their 2 characters a lot. Snap in Phoenix using Snap Back. Try to save your X Factor for when she X Factors, because then you can bait her for an attack and X Factor her during block stun and punish for a combo that will kill her.

I once killed my cousin's Dark Phoenix XFC LVL3 with Haggar... He teleported in and I just did a random Lariat XFC into Punching hyper. Phoenix died.


On a side note: Justin Wong has leveled up his Wolverine/Storm/Akuma team considerably and also incorporated the DHC glitch in it. If he's playing seriously with that team, I don't think he can be beat unless it's against a person who manages to get Dark Phoenix out and even then JWong is too good for that shit. Sentinels were getting destroyed left and right, basically demoted to Assist character now.

Another player who has leveled up considerably is Clockw0rk. He easily has the best Doom around and a really good Ammy and Phoenix as well.

Wesker XFC LVL3 gun loop = LOL
Felicia XFC LVL3 one slash loop = LOL

Floe and JWong in final with a twist. JWong mirror matched against Floe for the TROLL and still WON!

Combofiend not really able to make his Captain America/Deadpool/Skrull team work all that well. I mean he got far with it but didn't really phase the top players all that much. His idea of using Skrull on anchor is solid but he messes with Skrull too much and gets Tenderizer out (probably the reason why a lot of people aren't using him because it's so easy to mess up with him). His Deadpool was good too. Captain America... *sigh*.

And I am totally stealing that Wesker combo that other guy had (forgot his name). It looks difficult but I will put in the man hours to get it. Ground combo -> QCF+L, Gun shot, cr.M, st. H, QCF+M (wall bounce), launcher, air combo.

 

[LeMaximilian]

Oh my god I'm fucking dying here... :lol
Sorry to repost, but watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi71qyTTAFw and TURN CLOSED CAPTIONING ON to get the REAL MVC3 advice.

It's the little CC button at the bottom of the player, just select Transcribe Audio.

"I'm explain that to be of some to horses go concrete eleanor"

edit

"they realized his dogs so announced understood to be all man"

This is like reading awkward poetry.

 

[Wallach]

Oh my god I'm fucking dying here... :lol
Sorry to repost, but watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi71qyTTAFw and TURN CLOSED CAPTIONING ON to get the REAL MVC3 advice.

It's the little CC button at the bottom of the player, just select Transcribe Audio.

"I'm explain that to be of some to horses go concrete eleanor"

I remember once when I was pretty toasted I spent like a full hour laughing my ass off at DSP SF4 online videos with this shit turned on.

 

[rivals]

VH236H was what they used at Evo 2009 and are popular at other tourneys.

I've been thinking about picking up one of these lately, the price doesn't seem terrible. What are people's thoughts in here about dealing with input lag? I tested my TV last night using the Rock Band 3 input lag calibrator and normal was 137ms, with Game Mode on it was 63ms. On top of the fact that I'm playing on PS3 which typically seems to have slightly worse input lag than 360 for Super and MvC it has me wondering if it's worthwhile to grab one of those monitors (which then begs the question of whether I should dual mod my stick etc since I do have a 360 but no fighting games on it).

EDIT: Part of the difficulty is that as far as I know I have no way of sitting with one of these monitors to actually try it for a while and see if I notice a significant difference.

 

[hitsugi]

Dahbomb - another stylish wesker bnb is ground combo into qcf+L, gun otg, c.M, H, f+H, teleport with L, c.M, S then air combo.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Anyway, I'm having trouble with this whole recording situation, so here's the Thor trick I found today:

Thor's forward and back throw, as well as all versions of his mighty hurricane, combo into hard tags from the middle of the screen. This way you get a safe tag for no meter without having to run away from people, and your next character starts off with a slight advantage while being on top of the opponent from the get go.

 

[LordAlu]

Oh my god I'm fucking dying here... :lol
Sorry to repost, but watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi71qyTTAFw and TURN CLOSED CAPTIONING ON to get the REAL MVC3 advice.

It's the little CC button at the bottom of the player, just select Transcribe Audio.

"I'm explain that to be of some to horses go concrete eleanor"

edit

"they realized his dogs so announced understood to be all man"

This is like reading awkward poetry.

"several points above the keyboard gay men"
"two hits will remove the superman sanders"
"how did I get paid by that all my gosh I'm probably"

This is gold. GOLD.

 

[Dahbomb]

Dahbomb - another stylish wesker bnb is ground combo into qcf+L, gun otg, c.M, H, f+H, teleport with L, c.M, S then air combo.

It's real funny I once did this on accident because for some reason instead of doing the QCF+M I did the Gun shot forward and of course my reflex was to just tap L and continue with the teleport. I caught the guy and went into autopilot and it worked lol.

I am not going to use it that often because A) Wall bouncing is bad ass and B) When I started playing the game (and Wesker) I used the Mission mode as a template for my BnB combos. It had a combo starting with the QCF+M and I basically used that as the starting point in my combos and from there I basically ingrained it into my fingers. It's like so muscle memory for me that even if the string gets blocked I will keep it going and end up teleporting behind the opponent and that will usually give me another opportunity.

 

[El Sloth]

I thought this was a good read and figured you guys would enjoy it too:

The Salty Runback: Occam's Razor?

It touches on the recent Sentinel nerf, Jessica Chobot, and X Factor.

Oh, and fuck Wolverine.