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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree

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Sentinel haters should just learn to have Spencer on their team.

Get a good cover assist character and do grapples from the air that is sure to hit that giant hit box of his and the get him in the corner and do them corner stuff
 

mr. puppy

Banned
gutter_trash said:
Sentinel haters should just learn to have Spencer on their team.

Get a good cover assist character and do grapples from the air that is sure to hit that giant hit box of his and the get him in the corner and do them corner stuff


that is so much easier said then done. when you're playing spencer its too easy just to assume at any second he is going to try and grap you from somewhere on the screen and do an appropriate counter (teleport out, AA assist, etc. etc.). not to mention that spencer just isn't quick enough on the ground a lot of the time, and falls to a lot of sentinels armored normals.
 

Dave Long

Banned
BotoxAgent said:
i suck at this game. It will take me a long time to get anywhere as good as everyone else around here T_T
I do too, and I'm really not happy that the matchmaking is broken because it means any hope of getting online and playing against real people is just lost unless I want to have 58-hit chains going off on me for entire rounds.

This is the first fighting game I've ever played where I actually just stop moving and let people win because I realize I have absolutely no chance of beating them. And this is in rooms marked "Beginners Only" or whatever. These people are not beginners. They're assholes.

I bought the strategy guide. I can do fireballs and dragon punches with the best of them, but last night I was thinking I wasted a lot of money on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 because it feels so shitty to sit back and watch as canned combos turn you inside out. There is no fun in that.
 

y2dvd

Member
Toski said:
I got bodied by a guy who was using Wesker with Sentinels drone assist. He attacked with Wesker (causing blockstun), call in the drones, then do the back overhead teleport. Once he got the hit in it was a touch of death combo with Wesker's OTG and Dante's alpha assist.

Hard to do much besides block correctly once he get's his strings going. :\ The easy thing to say is to not let him get his strings going in the first place lol. Depending on how he times it, I wanna say you have enough time to jump away between his teleport and the drones reaching you. Then I would say use the previous strategy I posted.
 
Dave Long said:
I do too, and I'm really not happy that the matchmaking is broken because it means any hope of getting online and playing against real people is just lost unless I want to have 58-hit chains going off on me for entire rounds.

This is the first fighting game I've ever played where I actually just stop moving and let people win because I realize I have absolutely no chance of beating them. And this is in rooms marked "Beginners Only" or whatever. These people are not beginners. They're assholes.

I bought the strategy guide. I can do fireballs and dragon punches with the best of them, but last night I was thinking I wasted a lot of money on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 because it feels so shitty to sit back and watch as canned combos turn you inside out. There is no fun in that.

Why don't you just look up combos and practice them so that you can do them in a match?
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I think I'm going to have to pick a new team to supplement Team Darkstalkers. I've managed an ~85% win percentage but just do not have enough options to deal with people who really know what they're doing. I kind of want a real team to be ready for Final Round.

Going to look into who works well with Taskmaster. I really want to pick him up because he seems to be pretty good all around and heavily resembles the first character I ever took "seriously" in a fighter (Ishida in Bleach DS, as funny as that may sound).

BrLvgThrChmstry said:
Player matches are the way to go. I stick to player matches though, much more variety -- less spam too.
The only difference I've noticed between Ranked an Player after hundreds of matches is that people taunt more in Player. There is absolutely no other difference.
 
I do too, and I'm really not happy that the matchmaking is broken because it means any hope of getting online and playing against real people is just lost unless I want to have 58-hit chains going off on me for entire rounds.

This is the first fighting game I've ever played where I actually just stop moving and let people win because I realize I have absolutely no chance of beating them. And this is in rooms marked "Beginners Only" or whatever. These people are not beginners. They're assholes.

I bought the strategy guide. I can do fireballs and dragon punches with the best of them, but last night I was thinking I wasted a lot of money on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 because it feels so shitty to sit back and watch as canned combos turn you inside out. There is no fun in that.
This is the first time I have heard brag because they can throw a Hadoken, but those people who use combos are just no fun to play against.

I got bodied by a guy who was using Wesker with Sentinels drone assist. He attacked with Wesker (causing blockstun), call in the drones, then do the back overhead teleport. Once he got the hit in it was a touch of death combo with Wesker's OTG and Dante's alpha assist.
All assists have a delay, and it's always long enough to create a hole in the pressure string. Wait for that moment. Also, always pushblock Wesker if your opponent is a gun->teleport spammer, because the teleports place them right in front of you for easy punishment.
 

evil ways

Member
I just got over the guilt of having Sentinel on my team and exploiting his cheapness, at least on ranked matches.

Last night I fough a Sentinel/Mags/Arthur team, spamming beams, lasers, knives/lances, and whenever I would try a super jump to cut distance he would turbo dash the Sentinel to the other corner, rinse repeat, ass whooped. I knew he could dash cancel but that was ridiculous.
 

Darkman M

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
I think I'm going to have to pick a new team to supplement Team Darkstalkers. I've managed an ~85% win percentage but just do not have enough options to deal with people who really know what they're doing. I kind of want a real team to be ready for Final Round.

Going to look into who works well with Taskmaster. I really want to pick him up because he seems to be pretty good all around and heavily resembles the first character I ever took "seriously" in a fighter (Ishida in Bleach DS, as funny as that may sound).


The only difference I've noticed between Ranked an Player after hundreds of matches is that people taunt more in Player. There is absolutely no other difference.


I got teabagged for the first time yesterday.
 

Moofers

Member
Is there some trick to Dante's teleport that I don't know? Everyone says you teleport against beam spammers, but I can never pull the teleport off fast enough. He starts to do it, but gets beamed out of it. It never works for me.

Also, my team of Dante/Akuma/Sentinel is working pretty well for me, but I need a better game plan against beam spammers. I already know about super jumping out or beam HC countering, but yesterday there was this Doom player going "Plasma beam plasma beam plasma beam" so fast I couldn't believe it. I still won, but damn if it wasn't a lot closer than it needed to be. I find that Akuma's Tatsu works well and if you've got a bar ready, air HC is great, but outside that I'm not sure what to do with him. Sentinel has that great range game, but he is constantly beat to the punch in beaming unless x-factored. I guess I just need to practice practice practice.
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
I love how people are making excuses for Sentinel LOL

I remember when Mago in an interview said something like "yea Sagat is overpowered a bit, i get so many wins by accident". Sentinel in this game represents that fully. The fact that Justin n Ryry didnt use em, or "he's beatable" is besides the point.

anyways cheapest assist in the game:

-Lariat
-Hidden trolls
-Chun legs
-Gouki revolving feet
 

Alucrid

Banned
Karsticles said:
This is the first time I have heard brag because they can throw a Hadoken, but those people who use combos are just no fun to play against.


All assists have a delay, and it's always long enough to create a hole in the pressure string. Wait for that moment. Also, always pushblock Wesker if your opponent is a gun->teleport spammer, because the teleports place them right in front of you for easy punishment.

But landing combos is the point of the game. Or did you just write that sentence awkwardly?
 

Dave Long

Banned
KS Seven X said:
Why don't you just look up combos and practice them so that you can do them in a match?
Why don't I figure out how to create more than 24 hours in a single day?

If the matchmaking worked, I'd be fine. Because then I'd be playing against people who were on my level. But it doesn't, and I am not still in school or without kids, etc. so I cannot spend every waking hour learning combos for three or more characters. I know the general strings... LMH, etc. But when one combo takes so much of your life bar and you are obviously going to get hit, there is little entertainment value playing people who are far better than you will ever be.

In SFIV and SSFIV, I maintained a 60% win rate and never felt overmatched like I do in this game. I played Bison.

I've always been less fond of fighting games with super long combo strings. It's why I never warmed much to Tekken either. It's all just memorization, not creative play, so that's why I'm quickly becoming less of a fan of Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

All that said, the game is fun with my kids, so I'll just not play online.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
~Devil Trigger~ said:
I love how people are making excuses for Sentinel LOL

I remember when Mago in an interview said something like "yea Sagat is overpowered a bit, i get so many wins by accident". Sentinel in this game represents that fully. The fact that Justin n Ryry didnt use em, or "he's beatable" is besides the point.

anyways cheapest assist in the game:

-Lariat
-Hidden trolls
-Chun legs
-Gouki revolving feet

Jwong has openly stated that Sentinel is overpowered. Is the game still fresh and new? Hell yeah. Does everyone have cheap shit? Hell yeah. Do we still have tons of discovering to do with the different characters? Of course. But at time moment in time, Sentinel is overpowered. Just because you can find a way around it doesn't mean that he's NOT overpowered... that means that you've found a way to compensate for him (or you're simply that much better than the Sentinel player).

Ammy's a terrible matchup for him, yeah, but everyone with any skill knows that this game is more than just your point character vs the other point character. If a game comes down to Ammy vs. Sentinel as the last characters, there's a reason why the Sentinel player is in this position.

What are Hidden Trolls?
 
GuardianE said:
There's really no excuse. Is the game still early? Hell yeah. Does everyone have cheap shit? Hell yeah. But at time moment in time, Sentinel is overpowered. Just because you can find a way around it doesn't mean that he's NOT overpowered... that means that you've found a way to compensate for him (or you're simply that much better than the Sentinel player).

What are Hidden Trolls?

I am assuming he means Doc Doom's Hidden Missiles
 

Kurtofan

Member
GuardianE said:
Jwong has openly stated that Sentinel is overpowered. Is the game still fresh and new? Hell yeah. Does everyone have cheap shit? Hell yeah. Do we still have tons of discovering to do with the different characters? Of course. But at time moment in time, Sentinel is overpowered. Just because you can find a way around it doesn't mean that he's NOT overpowered... that means that you've found a way to compensate for him (or you're simply that much better than the Sentinel player).

What are Hidden Trolls?
Hidden Missiles.
 

Manus

Member
Dave Long said:
Why don't I figure out how to create more than 24 hours in a single day?

If the matchmaking worked, I'd be fine. Because then I'd be playing against people who were on my level. But it doesn't, and I am not still in school or without kids, etc. so I cannot spend every waking hour learning combos for three or more characters. I know the general strings... LMH, etc. But when one combo takes so much of your life bar and you are obviously going to get hit, there is little entertainment value playing people who are far better than you will ever be.

In SFIV and SSFIV, I maintained a 60% win rate and never felt overmatched like I do in this game. I played Bison.

I've always been less fond of fighting games with super long combo strings. It's why I never warmed much to Tekken either. It's all just memorization, not creative play, so that's why I'm quickly becoming less of a fan of Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

All that said, the game is fun with my kids, so I'll just not play online.

Uh, combo's are extremely easy to perform in this.
 
How could I lose, I have a bionic arm.

Best line in the game?
I actually hate this line so much it prevented me from putting him on my team.

I remember when Mago in an interview said something like "yea Sagat is overpowered a bit, i get so many wins by accident". Sentinel in this game represents that fully. The fact that Justin n Ryry didnt use em, or "he's beatable" is besides the point.
I feel like he's dominating just because people are bad at blocking against him, and everyone was obsessed about trying him when he first came out. I think once the game matures, and people start exploring the newcomers more, he won't be considered nearly as scary. It's just an early game, and easy, heavy hitters tend to seem powerful at that stage of metagame.

If the matchmaking worked, I'd be fine. Because then I'd be playing against people who were on my level. But it doesn't, and I am not still in school or without kids, etc. so I cannot spend every waking hour learning combos for three or more characters. I know the general strings... LMH, etc. But when one combo takes so much of your life bar and you are obviously going to get hit, there is little entertainment value playing people who are far better than you will ever be.
You're sitting around complaining on NeoGAF, so clearly you have some time that could be spent better elsewhere. Alternatively, maybe you are at a point in your life where a competitive fighting game is just not a good fit for you.

Jwong has openly stated that Sentinel is overpowered.
Yeah, the first night he got it. Don't make me post a link to the Adon quotes.
 

Alucrid

Banned
Dave Long said:
Why don't I figure out how to create more than 24 hours in a single day?

If the matchmaking worked, I'd be fine. Because then I'd be playing against people who were on my level. But it doesn't, and I am not still in school or without kids, etc. so I cannot spend every waking hour learning combos for three or more characters. I know the general strings... LMH, etc. But when one combo takes so much of your life bar and you are obviously going to get hit, there is little entertainment value playing people who are far better than you will ever be.

In SFIV and SSFIV, I maintained a 60% win rate and never felt overmatched like I do in this game. I played Bison.

I've always been less fond of fighting games with super long combo strings. It's why I never warmed much to Tekken either. It's all just memorization, not creative play, so that's why I'm quickly becoming less of a fan of Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

All that said, the game is fun with my kids, so I'll just not play online.

So untrue.
 
Moofers said:
Is there some trick to Dante's teleport that I don't know? Everyone says you teleport against beam spammers, but I can never pull the teleport off fast enough. He starts to do it, but gets beamed out of it. It never works for me.

Also, my team of Dante/Akuma/Sentinel is working pretty well for me, but I need a better game plan against beam spammers. I already know about super jumping out or beam HC countering, but yesterday there was this Doom player going "Plasma beam plasma beam plasma beam" so fast I couldn't believe it. I still won, but damn if it wasn't a lot closer than it needed to be. I find that Akuma's Tatsu works well and if you've got a bar ready, air HC is great, but outside that I'm not sure what to do with him. Sentinel has that great range game, but he is constantly beat to the punch in beaming unless x-factored. I guess I just need to practice practice practice.

You need to block the beam, then start buffering the dd.S to it hits as soon as you're done with blockstun.
If they have assist spamming too, you may need to jump and air dash to cut distance, as they may never allow you to teleport out since the assist beams would cover the recovery time of the point beam.
 
Dave Long said:
Why don't I figure out how to create more than 24 hours in a single day?

If the matchmaking worked, I'd be fine. Because then I'd be playing against people who were on my level. But it doesn't, and I am not still in school or without kids, etc. so I cannot spend every waking hour learning combos for three or more characters. I know the general strings... LMH, etc. But when one combo takes so much of your life bar and you are obviously going to get hit, there is little entertainment value playing people who are far better than you will ever be.

In SFIV and SSFIV, I maintained a 60% win rate and never felt overmatched like I do in this game. I played Bison.

I've always been less fond of fighting games with super long combo strings. It's why I never warmed much to Tekken either. It's all just memorization, not creative play, so that's why I'm quickly becoming less of a fan of Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

All that said, the game is fun with my kids, so I'll just not play online.
Dude it's Marvel. The 3rd chapter in fact. I hope you know what you were getting yourself into.
 
Dave Long said:
Why don't I figure out how to create more than 24 hours in a single day?

If the matchmaking worked, I'd be fine. Because then I'd be playing against people who were on my level. But it doesn't, and I am not still in school or without kids, etc. so I cannot spend every waking hour learning combos for three or more characters. I know the general strings... LMH, etc. But when one combo takes so much of your life bar and you are obviously going to get hit, there is little entertainment value playing people who are far better than you will ever be.

In SFIV and SSFIV, I maintained a 60% win rate and never felt overmatched like I do in this game. I played Bison.

I've always been less fond of fighting games with super long combo strings. It's why I never warmed much to Tekken either. It's all just memorization, not creative play, so that's why I'm quickly becoming less of a fan of Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

All that said, the game is fun with my kids, so I'll just not play online.

You said you had a 60% win rate in SSFIV and yet you bragged you could do a hadoken and an SRK. Are you sure you had that win rate? Combos are a lot easier to perform in this game than in SSFIV generally because of the timing.
 

Alucrid

Banned
Karsticles said:
I actually hate this line so much it prevented me from putting him on my team.

I feel like he's dominating just because people are bad at blocking against him, and everyone was obsessed about trying him when he first came out. I think once the game matures, and people start exploring the newcomers more, he won't be considered nearly as scary. It's just an early game, and easy, heavy hitters tend to seem powerful at that stage of metagame.


You're sitting around complaining on NeoGAF, so clearly you have some time that could be spent better elsewhere. Alternatively, maybe you are at a point in your life where a competitive fighting game is just not a good fit for you.


Yeah, the first night he got it. Don't make me post a link to the Adon quotes.

To be fair he might be at work. I am. :p

J Wong also said the game sucked at first, now he's loving it. *Que twitter picture of his changing attitude*
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Karsticles said:
Yeah, the first night he got it. Don't make me post a link to the Adon quotes.

After the first week or so, actually. :p

Point taken, but I feel like SSFIV is a different beast. Capcom sought to make it the most balanced fighter possible... and they did a pretty remarkable job of doing so. MvC3 was made to be broken.

Justin Wong has always been a Marvel player, through and through. MvC2 is his game. MvC3 is extremely different from MvC2, but tons of new school fighter concepts still apply. As of right now, Sentinel is overpowered. Whether he will be in a few months, no one knows.
 

Grecco

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
Going to look into who works well with Taskmaster. I really want to pick him up because he seems to be pretty good all around and heavily resembles the first character I ever took "seriously" in a fighter (Ishida in Bleach DS, as funny as that may sound).
.

Try pairing Taskmaster with Amateratsu. Has wroked well so far for me.


Chauncy Talon said:
How cheap? I just bought 3 pairs of Jordan's from Finish Line for under $20 or I just woke up with a girl who had no teeth?

Jordan Cheap. As in its just too easier to win with him vs other dudes crutch cheap.
 
Whenever I go into training mode to learn the game, I just give up at some point full of frustration. I don't think I will ever get good at it, just too much to learn if you haven't played a vs game before. I'm ok at SSFIV, but this is just too much for my small brain. I just feel overwhelmed with the speed and the assist stuff :(
 
schennmu said:
Whenever I go into training mode to learn the game, I just give up at some point full of frustration. I don't think I will ever get good at it, just too much to learn if you haven't played a vs game before. I'm ok at SSFIV, but this is just too much for my small brain. I just feel overwhelmed with the speed and the assist stuff :(

Yea. The Vs. games (outside of the SNK vs Capcom) where built to the same. It's all about having imagination. Mission Mode helps out a lot also. I know some people hate the game, but if you was first introduce to SSFIV, then you will play defensive. This game is an all out offensive type of game.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
schennmu said:
Whenever I go into training mode to learn the game, I just give up at some point full of frustration. I don't think I will ever get good at it, just too much to learn if you haven't played a vs game before. I'm ok at SSFIV, but this is just too much for my small brain. I just feel overwhelmed with the speed and the assist stuff :(

Just take concepts one at a time. If you've never played the vs. series before (or any new school fighter), you're going to suck balls regardless of if you've exceled at SFIV.

Do the Missions, try out combos that you know you can do. Especially since there's scaling, a lot of pretty plain combos hit very hard in this game to give you a fighting chance. Move up from there.
 

jdub03

Member
The top players on xbl are douche bags. They tea bag and taunt you every time they win. I have to tell myself not to send a nasty message because I know that's what they want. These are usually the 2nd and 3rd lord ranks. I played the number one player on xbl leaderboards. I managed to take out one of his characters. Thought I was doing pretty good until his taskmaster came out. He proceded to wipe the floor with all three of my characters. Mad respect to him. I could tell he was just waiting for me to make a mistake. He's very patient and uses his assist to apply good pressure. I got the achievement for that.

I need some good team combos for my Wesker/Wolverine/Doom M.D. crew. Anybody know any?
 
Learning combos is not the problem, it's more that I lack a basic understanding of the game. I understand the individual parts, but I cannot put them together in a match. E.g. when is the right time to call an assist? What team would be fitting for my playstyle, etc. Yeah, fantasy is probably what I need. Not giving up yet because I can definitely see the awesomeness, but the game is very rought for vs newbs.

I also refuse to play online before I don't feel a bit more comfortable.
 
Dammit. I hate combos in mission mode that are c.L > s.M > c.H > SRK.H... fucking evil.

Edit: I'm remember the last time I had to do one, I was buffering inputs with doing c.L > f.M > c.H > SRK.H I think... but that doesn't really make it much easier. :(
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
corrosivefrost said:
Dammit. I hate combos in mission mode that are c.L > s.M > c.H > SRK.H... fucking evil.

Edit: I'm remember the last time I had to do one, I was buffering inputs with doing c.L > f.M > c.H > SRK.H I think... but that doesn't really make it much easier. :(

What part is the problem? The SRK? Make sure to go neutral before the input and you should be fine.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
I love how people are making excuses for Sentinel LOL

I remember when Mago in an interview said something like "yea Sagat is overpowered a bit, i get so many wins by accident". Sentinel in this game represents that fully. The fact that Justin n Ryry didnt use em, or "he's beatable" is besides the point.

anyways cheapest assist in the game:

-Lariat
-Hidden trolls
-Chun legs
-Gouki revolving feet
oh god i hate this one so much :(
 
schennmu said:
Learning combos is not the problem, it's more that I lack a basic understanding of the game. I understand the individual parts, but I cannot put them together in a match. E.g. when is the right time to call an assist? What team would be fitting for my playstyle, etc. Yeah, fantasy is probably what I need. Not giving up yet because I can definitely see the awesomeness, but the game is very rought for vs newbs.

I also refuse to play online before I don't feel a bit more comfortable.

this. I have the same problem.

I have most of the mission modes finished, not that hard. But fuck, in actual match, I get raped hard.
 
Level 2-3 X-Factor Felicia == big character killer

I ran into a really good Felicia last night who just shredded my Hulk horribly. She was just looping with M and Delta Kick, but it was so tight that I couldn't get out of it or seem to clear any space with advanced guard. Totally chipped me out from close to 50% health. And that was without even throwing in the little kitty helper, which I assume would only make things worse for me.
 
To be fair he might be at work. I am. :p

J Wong also said the game sucked at first, now he's loving it. *Que twitter picture of his changing attitude*
I'm at work too, and besides posting here I'm watching Tragic's combo videos for ideas. Half of doing a combo is knowing the inputs and why it works. You can do everything but practice execution away from the game, and for most combos, the execution is the easier part.

After the first week or so, actually. :p
No, it was the night of or earlier; I remember because some people actually (lol) canceled their pre-order after reading the comment.

Justin Wong has always been a Marvel player, through and through. MvC2 is his game. MvC3 is extremely different from MvC2, but tons of new school fighter concepts still apply. As of right now, Sentinel is overpowered. Whether he will be in a few months, no one knows.
This is my point exactly. We have no evidence that Sentinel, the character, is overpowered. Just evidence that he does well in the current metagame. He's MvC3's Iceman.

Whenever I go into training mode to learn the game, I just give up at some point full of frustration. I don't think I will ever get good at it, just too much to learn if you haven't played a vs game before. I'm ok at SSFIV, but this is just too much for my small brain. I just feel overwhelmed with the speed and the assist stuff :(
How are your missions coming along?

I also refuse to play online before I don't feel a bit more comfortable.
You can't make an omelet without breaking an egg!

Dammit. I hate combos in mission mode that are c.L > s.M > c.H > SRK.H... fucking evil.
Zero's Mission 7 was the most frustrating, yet conceptually easy, mission I have thus far had the displeasure of doing.

Level 2-3 X-Factor Felicia == big character killer

I ran into a really good Felicia last night who just shredded my Hulk horribly. She was just looping with M and Delta Kick, but it was so tight that I couldn't get out of it or seem to clear any space with advanced guard. Totally chipped me out from close to 50% health. And that was without even throwing in the little kitty helper, which I assume would only make things worse for me.
It's indecent to say that other characters besides Sentinel can easily turn the game around with level 3 X-Factor.
 

Grifter

Member
BotoxAgent said:
this. I have the same problem.

I have most of the mission modes finished, not that hard. But fuck, in actual match, I get raped hard.
:( keep your head up. I'd help ya test stuff.
 
Grifter said:
:( keep your head up. I'd help ya test stuff.

as you saw last night, I'm still suffering character identity crisis. But I think I'll try to stick w/wesker iron man and dante. Hopefully, I'll be a bit more of a challenge to you in the coming months.
 

Riposte

Member
Sentinel is not overpowered, he is just "high-powered". Also people need to drop this "cheap" nonsense. I thought we were better than that?
 

Kimosabae

Banned
Some of the people feeling overwhelmed really need to reconsider their approach to the game, I think. If you simply play the game to have fun, without considering too much the multitude of strategical branches the game offers, your love and understanding of the game will grow organically and you'll have the foundation you desire before you know it.

Try to just play with local friends. I think some of you are getting too ahead of yourselves.
 
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