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["God's Beard!"]

The few times I tried to combo you nothing would come out, even air H into Air play. :/

It's so frustrating. I feel like I have a good grasp of the mechanics and the counters in the game, but I don't have the presence of mind to use any of it. Other people can take my advice and get better, but I just kind of waste away. Sigh, I wish I had someone local to play against. It's so hard, waiting between matches takes forever, and people in player just quit after like 2 games. It makes me just want to boot up GGPO.

 

[shaowebb]

Play more though, knowing combos should honestly come last, battle experience and knowing how to block shit gets you way more wins.

This.

I thought I was all great after getting some of my wolverine combos and then I went in on a Chris Redfield. All guns all the time. I'd prep a dash and eat a bullet, I'd prep a dive kick and eat shotgun spread.

I played for 3 hours today trying to learn to time different appraoches with each of my team against all of Chris' ranged attacks since they are so fast and I was having so much trouble timing them compared to any other character's ranged stuff.

You really have to end up doing this with your practiced characters when you find a character or a move or an assist situation that prevents you from styling all the results from your practice. It pays to have a competitive friend or two, and sometimes you just gotta take it online and challenge every team you can to learn how many options you really have for landing a combo you know.

Get in there bearded one. Once you learn some more approach setups to learn how to position yourself at the right time versus moves so that they are vulnerable to your practiced combos you will start hitting them a lot. People hate my fake jump in with Wolverine. They keep thinking dive kick if I do one jump over a projectile and go into another one up close. They usually dash forward and end up eating a drill claw I was waiting to shoot backwards at them after that bluff. It's even better if they try to super jump and airdash over it because I can drill up into my air combo.

All about approaches.

 

[enzo_gt]

I would love to put Dorm on my team but I just can't figure out how to use him. When do you go in for the combo? Once the flame carpet has got them? Is the random Dark Hole every useful for a hit confirm into free Chaotic Flame? Where do you find time to power up your creator/destructor arms?

I usually get stuck zoning with a wrongfully placed purification/dark hole and am left wide open to get blown up. Not sure what kind of assists go with him either. He seems pretty.. meta in relation to the rest of the cast. Everything seems like it has to be set up (besides random chaotic flames). At least that's how I'm understanding it, which is probably wrong.

That 3xDestruction liberation is in contention for one of the most badass moves in the game though. Getting a KO with that shit is such a "fuck yeah" moment.

 

[Professor Beef]

Speaking of this.. anyone else notice Melee/Brawl players make the transition to MvC3 much easier than SF players? All of my Melee-focused friends who go into MvC3 immediately start wrecking shit. Perhaps it's the ability to understand space control more vertically as well that SF players aren't as easily attuned to?

Most of the people I know that play Melee/Brawl but never had an interest in SF immediately dove right into Marvel 3. Basically, they came for the hype, and the ones that stayed for the mayhem.

 

[smurfx]

Are you even on PSN?

ah man psn? i thought you were on live.

 

[Solune]

The few times I tried to combo you nothing would come out, even air H into Air play. :/

It's so frustrating. I feel like I have a good grasp of the mechanics and the counters in the game, but I don't have the presence of mind to use any of it. Other people can take my advice and get better, but I just kind of waste away. Sigh, I wish I had someone local to play against. It's so hard, waiting between matches takes forever, and people in player just quit after like 2 games. It makes me just want to boot up GGPO.

This is the most important part. And like Q was saying, you just need to keep playing. Then all your doubts become muscle memory.
And to be quite honest, Q is no slouch. He's definitely one of the better players on GAF in general, so someone with little experience fighting players against someone who knows what they are doing, you're gonna feel salty.

 

["God's Beard!"]

It's just stupid stuff, you know. I keep getting pelted by arrows and I'm just holding back thinking, "damn, can't use dark hole or flame carpet, he'll tag me if I jump and teleport's too slow. What do I do?"

But you know, I could have super jumped, I could have used 2M to break through the arrows and cancel into whatever, or just started hopping. Instead, I swapped to MODOK and put up a shield, then got rushed because I wasn't thinking about MODOK's tools. I need to settle down and think, then just practice with one team against ranked matches.

 

[QisTopTier]

Q is no slouch. He's definitely one of the better players on GAF in general,

Nah I suck

 

[Ferrio]

Nah I suck

Stupid x factor!

Damn that sent.

Think I might switch out dorm. He's a damn nice char to tie in my dhcs and for some easy chip wins... but i need an assist that came help me move in with shehulk. Tron only helps me when I'm in. Thinking maybe Akuma? Akuma is a good anchor too right?


edit: That lunch time hyper vs drones was pretty funny.

 

[QisTopTier]

Stupid x factor!

Damn that sent.

Think I might switch out dorm. He's a damn nice char to tie in my dhcs and for some easy chip wins... but i need an assist that came help me move in with shehulk. Tron only helps me when I'm in. Thinking maybe Akuma? Akuma is a good anchor too right?

Yeah, akuma is a good anchor

 

[Dirtbag]

It's just stupid stuff, you know. I keep getting pelted by arrows and I'm just holding back thinking, "damn, can't use dark hole or flame carpet, he'll tag me if I jump and teleport's too slow. What do I do?"

But you know, I could have super jumped, I could have used 2M to break through the arrows and cancel into whatever, or just started hopping. Instead, I swapped to MODOK and put up a shield, then got rushed because I wasn't thinking about MODOK's tools. I need to settle down and think, then just practice with one team against ranked matches.

Building a versatile team of complimentary players is also very important. Your team needs a way of dealing with a projectile heavy character along with rushdown. Add in some intelligent blocking vs. big damage guys and you are in better shape. Arrow spam from Taskmaster is probably best countered with teleports. Learn them

If two of your characters can't handle an attack style, your third better be damn able to.

 

[Ferrio]

Building a versatile team of complimentary players is also very important. Your team needs a way of dealing with a projectile heavy character along with rushdown. Add in some intelligent blocking vs. big damage guys and you are in better shape. Arrow spam from Taskmaster is probably best countered with teleports. Learn them

....and get air thrown.

 

[Dirtbag]

....and get air thrown.

He's just starting out, a real higher level player is probably going to beat him 9/10 times... but a projectile spammer isn't going to be air throwing teleports

 

[Solune]

He's just starting out, a real higher level player is probably going to beat him 9/10 times... but a projectile spammer isn't going to be air throwing teleports

You... haven't played a good Taskmaster

 

[Dirtbag]

You... haven't played a good Taskmaster

I'm not talking about a good Taskmaster.
Taskmaster is good matchup problem for most the characters in the game.

He's talking arrow spam and forgetting he can super jump, instead just switching to an even worse matchup - least Domm's super comes out like lightning. I think it's pretty safe to assume his going to be kibble vs. a really nasty Taskmaster at this level anyway.. I'm just talking about a foundation vs. a player closer in skill level. Teleports destroy low-tier players and put the hurt on most mid-tier guys to. He's just going to have to get better to beat the high-tier guys and forgetting you can super jump doesn't sound like he's at that level.

 

[SolarPowered]

It's just stupid stuff, you know. I keep getting pelted by arrows and I'm just holding back thinking, "damn, can't use dark hole or flame carpet, he'll tag me if I jump and teleport's too slow. What do I do?"

But you know, I could have super jumped, I could have used 2M to break through the arrows and cancel into whatever, or just started hopping. Instead, I swapped to MODOK and put up a shield, then got rushed because I wasn't thinking about MODOK's tools. I need to settle down and think, then just practice with one team against ranked matches.

You've been thinking more about matchups and team synergy than everyone here put together in the last five pages or so.

Maybe you should just play and play and play until it clicks. Throw an invite my way if you ever want to fight someone you actually have a chance of beating if you like.

Her stuff is pretty good and she can start combos from a variety of positions and keep them going from a lot of peculiar ranges too. She usually requires at least 1 meter but in marvel that's not so big of a deal to achieve. A lot of these show off how boss she is with 2 meters and I'm practicing them because there are options with her character to force people out and build meter with her.
If she ever gets up to 3 meters its pretty damned ridiculous how much she can do. She pairs well with cast that either dash in or protect like tron, or chun or someone who will just pop up and hit someone for a few to extend her combo so she can reset herself to keep it going.
Give her a high pressure assist to help her set up these or time your jump ins and you can hit them surprisingly easy in a lot of real game scenarios.

For the sake of keeping your options open these vids show just how scary she can be without having to use certain assists to extend her combos. I threw one in that does show off what I meant by my assist advice since it showed her use both cap and chun to extend one combo pretty well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYk6CtOoW7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24HChYxGhbE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWOc7a_lQao&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x_-j-Nfkso&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUEubybsLIs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ5uxlPCHfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxeEIbQovuA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5taAa2CDXM&feature=related


Also
http://shoryuken.com/f365/hsien-ko-combo-thread-267240/
http://shoryuken.com/f365/got-enough-up-yours-hsien-ko-frame-data-266191/
http://shoryuken.com/f365/i-see-dead-people-hsien-ko-video-thread-268547/

I just checked out these vids and I was underwhelmed by the early ones. The last ones are beautiful though. Not a single person has mentioned that positive aspect to her teleporting dash. It takes all the work out of trying to keep your opponent in the middle and lets you work your pressure. I was also impressed by the use of x-factor and her Chiretou as well. There were a lot of clever ideas being applied. Thursday is going to be a busy lab day for me now that I've got all of this stuff to sink my teeth into.

Thanks

Edit: It's kind of silly, but I was watching the videos while listening to this song and it sounds like it could be an awesome orchestral theme for Hsien-Ko.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GUvmiGiHdQ

 

[Solune]

I'm not talking about a good Taskmaster.
Taskmaster is good matchup problem for most the characters in the game.

He's talking arrow spam and forgetting he can super jump, instead just switching to an even worse matchup - least Domm's super comes out like lightning. I think it's pretty safe to assume his going to be kibble vs. a really nasty Taskmaster at this level anyway.. I'm just talking about a foundation vs. a player closer in skill level. Teleports destroy low-tier players and put the hurt on most mid-tier guys to. He's just going to have to get better to beat the high-tier guys and forgetting you can super jump doesn't sound like he's at that level.

Look he didn't say anything about spam.

But you know, I could have super jumped, I could have used 2M to break through the arrows and cancel into whatever, or just started hopping.

I'm not gonna argue semantics though, he was being zoned. And really? You're gonna take a guess on Dormammu's Chaotic Flame vs Arrows? That screams scrubby unless you can do it on reaction.
I don't have any arguments of your comments towards playing against low-tier players because, well, I don't base my level of play around low level players.
However suggesting teleports vs arrow spam in general is a poor decision since Task gets a free super off of air throw, lest you are Wesker.

 

[QisTopTier]

He's talking arrow spam and forgetting he can super jump,

And this is why having shuma as a partner with Taskmaster is hilarious, oh and taskmasters arrows reach super jump height btw

Also giving advice based on low level vs low level is horrible. Besides he wasn't playing someone bad to begin with -.-

However suggesting teleports vs arrow spam in general is a poor decision since Task gets a free super off of air throw, lest you are Wesker.

Then he just gets to slice your face off if you try to attack *unless you know lag online and such*

 

[Dahbomb]

Some asked me about godly characters in this game in person...

I thought real hard for a bit and told him "If you want 3 godly characters on your team, select the Random All option".

God Beard you need to just play more often. Right now you are in training mode mentality, game moves too fast and you have to have your eyes/mind adjust to it in a match. The first step is blocking people's stuff which the throw at you and punishing mistakes. Combos come later and once you have learned to create openings and make approaches, the combos will come naturally if you have put the hard work in them.

Get some match practice in, even if it's just goofing around.

Morrigan the Annoying Bitch <-- Somewhat amusing

 

[Ashkeloth]

So, uh... how long have Event Match 08 and Event Match 09 been out?

One turns Arcade into survival mode with your health not being restored between fights, and another makes every character in Arcade MODOK (what the hell?).

 

[Dahbomb]

Came out yesterday I believe.

 

[Karsticles]

Things I deal with in this game that suck:
1) Bad input readings.
2) Awful netcode.
3) TACs.
4) Level 3 X-Factor.
5) Unpolished characters.
6) Lack of Spectator Mode.
7) Lack of interesting characters.

It's because people are realizing that Sentinel IS still good and still really dangerous. Plus his assist is still too good. Now people just have to play more defensive with him, which was the whole point of playing Sentinel as he is clearly a zoning character (he controls space with projectiles and huge range on his normals). Also gotta be more careful about using the assist.

I wish other characters had a Sentinel-like assist. It's so frustrating that only he has access to a screen filler of that quality.

That's why I'm still undecided on the patching idea. I do believe infinites have to go though, no matter how easy or hard they are to do. They make some hype if you get caught in them, but I don't see them benefiting gameplay at all.

I think high-execution infinites are hype; Magneto's ROM was always intense to watch, because it took so much practice. Tatsu spam is not quite the same, I consider that a borderline glitch.

I don't think Xfactor is a bad thing in concept mind you. If it wasn't for xfactor it would be the opposite way around. Due to assists in this game when it's 1v3, it's might as well be good game. So there should be *something* to offset the lack of assists... just in it's current form it is too powerful.

I'm honestly fine with the damage and speed boosts of level 3 X-Factor, just not the duration increase. Yes, it is entirely avoidable, but I really hate spending 20 seconds flying around at the top of the screen waiting for it to go away. It makes every match so goddamn boring. X-Factor is anti-hype.

god damn x factor dorammu is freaking annoying. so much chip damage.

Dormammu is probably the least scary X-Factored character in my mind, because everything he gets is neglected utterly by your own X-Factor. It's not like Felicia, who can just spam Cat Spike L and infinite you.

Sigh... maybe I'm just not cut out for rushdown. I just don't have the sense of movement.

I know the feeling, but if you're not cut out for rushdown, that's all the more reason to play a rushdown character; the skills you learn will rub off on your spacing/keepaway characters. I've been using Wolverine/Ryu/Dormammu recently.

Comeback allows for never ending excitement and it never feels unfair when YOU use it.

I hate winning or losing by level 3 X-Factor. I won't not use it, because I'm not a scrub, but if my opponent bitches about it, I'll gladly bitch about it with him.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20265926

I rarely respond like this, but: L O L.

*jumps and air grabs you 10 times*

Play more though, knowing combos should honestly come last, battle experience and knowing how to block shit gets you way more wins.

Agreed. I beat a lot of people who do these combos that are so long I can make a sandwich during them (Hi Zero!), and I still win in the end somehow with my simple magic series into hyper Dormammu combos...not that he can do anything else without an assist, liberation, or X-Factor.

For the sake of keeping your options open these vids show just how scary she can be without having to use certain assists to extend her combos. I threw one in that does show off what I meant by my assist advice since it showed her use both cap and chun to extend one combo pretty well.

Oh neat, I didn't know she could do some of that stuff while X-Factored. Maybe she's a better anchor than I thought.

I would love to put Dorm on my team but I just can't figure out how to use him. When do you go in for the combo? Once the flame carpet has got them? Is the random Dark Hole every useful for a hit confirm into free Chaotic Flame? Where do you find time to power up your creator/destructor arms?

I'll have something to share regarding this in a week; it's not a simple answer, I'm afraid. Above all other characters, Dormammu makes you ask what you should be doing with your free in-battle time.

It's just stupid stuff, you know. I keep getting pelted by arrows and I'm just holding back thinking, "damn, can't use dark hole or flame carpet, he'll tag me if I jump and teleport's too slow. What do I do?"

But you know, I could have super jumped, I could have used 2M to break through the arrows and cancel into whatever, or just started hopping. Instead, I swapped to MODOK and put up a shield, then got rushed because I wasn't thinking about MODOK's tools. I need to settle down and think, then just practice with one team against ranked matches.

I think Taskmaster is a pretty difficult matchup for Dormammu in general. Most of the one-way beatdowns I receive are from Taskmaster players, just because his arrows are among the strongest projectiles in the game in damage, priority, and versatility, he can hit-confirm into hypers, he can apply a ton of pressure and rush if he wants, his b.H goes straight through Flame Carpet (and f.H goes over it), and he has above average health. He's really strong for how easy he is to play, too. Possibly one of the most well-rounded characters with no real weaknesses, yet he can outdo a lot of characters at their own strengths too. Nothing makes me groan like having to fight Taskmaster as Dormammu.

Plus, Taskmaster players are almost always backed by either Hidden Missiles or Sentinel Force, which means Dormammu can't really kara-cancel his normals into anything, because more projectiles are on the way!

Spoiler

I use Taskmaster on my main team.

Think I might switch out dorm. He's a damn nice char to tie in my dhcs and for some easy chip wins... but i need an assist that came help me move in with shehulk. Tron only helps me when I'm in. Thinking maybe Akuma? Akuma is a good anchor too right?

Floe was using She-Hulk + Dormammu and did pretty well; anchored with him.

Building a versatile team of complimentary players is also very important. Your team needs a way of dealing with a projectile heavy character along with rushdown. Add in some intelligent blocking vs. big damage guys and you are in better shape. Arrow spam from Taskmaster is probably best countered with teleports. Learn them

Good thing Taskmaster has a low priority air throw that doesn't lead to half of your health missing, right?

And this is why having shuma as a partner with Taskmaster is hilarious, oh and taskmasters arrows reach super jump height btw

Also giving advice based on low level vs low level is horrible. Besides he wasn't playing someone bad to begin with -.-

Yeah, Shuma-Gorath plus Taskmaster is such a mean combination, but maybe still not as beefy as Sentinel or Doom; comparable at least. I do love it when people get desperate and start to superjump, only to meet Aim Master H and fall back down.

 

[Dahbomb]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390120&page=6

There is a glaring omission of MAHVEL up in this bitch.

Also which characters are "unpolished"? I don't really get that argument. I really believe Capcom did a very good job with the characters overall.

AND WHERE THE DAMN LEAKS AT?

I wish other characters had a Sentinel-like assist. It's so frustrating that only he has access to a screen filler of that quality.

Drones are a bit overrated IMO. Try out SHIELD SLASH.

 

[Grifter]

Most of the people I know that play Melee/Brawl but never had an interest in SF immediately dove right into Marvel 3. Basically, they came for the hype, and the ones that stayed for the mayhem.

Funny this is a topic, we just had a 6v6 here teambat, Smash v. SF communities, Smash kids called us out.

Spoiler

Smash won

 

[Karsticles]

I made a suggestion to fix MvC3's netcode on Capcom-Unity.

Unfortunately, Capcom-Unity does not allow you to link straight to suggestions; you can however follow this link:
http://www.capcom-unity.com/go/suggestion/box

If you hit the "Last Week" tab, you will find my suggestion. Your support is appreciated.

Also which characters are "unpolished"? I don't really get that argument. I really believe Capcom did a very good job with the characters overall.

I feel like Dormammu is a very unpolished character:
1) He can't chain c.L into c.H; c.H is a stand-alone attack, and Dormammu has no way to hit-confirm off of a large portion of the cast, especially while ducking, unless he wants to risk using c.M, which will whiff entirely against most crouching characters.

2) The Dark Spell and Liberation system is awesome, but the Creation series is terrible. 0D1C and 0D2C used to OTG; it wasn't anything crazy powerful, it just let him relaunch in corners, or get a little more damage before Chaotic Flame if used mid-screen. Both are entirely useless now, as is 0D3C when compared to the other options. 0D3C used to be unblockable, which at least made it tempting.

3) Dormammu is 100% prone after using Dark Hole in the air. While I understand not wanting him to be a powerful force in air combat, not even allowing him to block during a long fall is pretty harsh. I don't think any other character suffers from this unique drawback.

4) Dormammu has no air options at all; why does he even have Flight? It's actually bad for him to fly, because unlike every other character with Flight, you know Dormammu can only do one thing out of Flight: come down. A similar complaint can be made about his superjumping.

Beyond Dormammu, I would say Hsien-ko feels unpolished. The entire character just feels in need of some serious attention. Slow, low health, poor damage, and awful screen control. Compare it to a character like Taskmaster, who is fast, has high health, high damage, and solid screen control. What gives? An assist, especially one that requires setting up first, does not justify a character.

Third, I would say Shuma-Gorath's post-hyper taunts just make me scream "what were you thinking Capcom?" This isn't like Akuma's Messatsu Gouhadou, which is amazing enough that you can justify it being punishable. Shuma-Gorath has weak non-level-3 hypers as it is.

In general, if you look at the characters that are looking to be top tier right now, they all have one thing in common: no glaring weaknesses. The most Capcom gave those characters as a drawback is lower than average health. Have you noticed all of the characters looking good can - *gasp* - cancel their dashes into attacks? What was Capcom thinking in this regard? Every character should be able to dash-cancel into an attack or crouch. When was the last time we even saw an Arthur used in the top 8? Did Capcom really think making a character have no dash at all was a good idea, that he could survive without being coddled by an assist like Double Lariat?

Also, Capcom bewilders me with the decision to make some characters amazing on point and with assists. Wesker and Dante, in particular. Wesker is not only one of the top point characters, but he also gets the best OTG assist in the game, which also happens to hit low for unblockable setups? What the hell? Meanwhile, characters like Viewtiful Joe don't even have a good assist; why the favoritism?

Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, and I'm not saying the balance is awful, just that I can't understand how Capcom, in their months of testing, somehow was unable to see what most onlookers considered obvious from day one.

AND WHERE THE DAMN LEAKS AT?

Coming, I am sure. Unless they leak a netcode patch though, I don't see myself being too excited.

Drones are a bit overrated IMO. Try out SHIELD SLASH.

I can see that working for a rushdown character, but can you really see Arthur, for example, dominating with Shield Slash backing him up?

 

[sixteen-bit]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390120&page=6

There is a glaring omission of MAHVEL up in this bitch.

It's an old thread and teh marvel hype is all here mayne.

 

[Dahbomb]

I only agree with Hsien Ko and even then I feel people aren't playing her like she's supposed to play (and only Capcom knows how to do that). Same for Arthur but again, Capcom really intended him to be this immobile because how he is in the GnG games. Ditto on why he goes into under pants mode after Gold armor, something to with fans of GnG being gluttons for punishment.

Dormammu, on the other hand, I feel is one of the most complete characters in the game. All of your arguments against him seem like you want him to play more rushdown. I do agree a bit on that his Creation levels lack oomph to them but all in all Liberation arts are one of the best game play mechanics and additions in the game. You can't really compare his flight mode to someone like Magneto's flight mode. Next thing you will want fly/unfly combos for Dorm.

Dorm has teleports, amazing hypers, decent tri-jump, decent projectiles, Flame Carpet, Liberation arts and some sick hit boxes on some of his normals. I know I am not nearly as good as you as playing Dorm (or as knowledgeable) but there is no way anyone can convince me he is anything below Top/High tier in this game.

Capcom not giving certain character dashes/air dashes was a conscious decision on their part. They feel that certain characters are better suited in the sidelines as Assists, DHC, TAC option rather than on point. This certainly includes characters like Hulk, Haggar. You get in with your fast characters, get a combo and then either TAC/DHC with a heavy character to do more damage. That was their design philosophy with this game. It also makes the game OMEGA LEVEL HYPE when someone does a comeback with the shitty assist character. Nothing gets my dick hard like catching the teleport with that Lariat XFC into Punch hyper.

As far as tiers go, I would agree that the characters who are top right now are those who are versatile with few weaknesses other than low health (except for Wesker). But really, though you aren't going to make a team consisting of top characters without having a top assist with you. A lot of the top assists are on characters who are lower in the tier. If someone like Tron had the same tools as Magneto while having that same assist, everyone would have her on their team.

I am not really defending Capcom either but I am trying to convey their rationale for characters. If we go down this road then I too have a "wishlist" for stuff that I want in my characters. Where's my 8 way air dash for Dante? Why doesn't Storm have a LVL3 hyper? Why isn't Hulk forward Gamma Charge invincible but his anti-air is? Why doesn't Spider Man have a self OTG move? Why can Akuma cancel his overhead into a launcher and Ryu can't?

I can see that working for a rushdown character, but can you really see Arthur, for example, dominating with Shield Slash backing him up?

Nope, Shield is for characters with tri-jump abilities for the cross up. It's less of a liability because Sentinel is out for so long. That was really more of a half joke though, Sentinel's assist is still very good and is worth having him on your team just for the assist.

 

[Grecco]

Shumas post hyper taunts are hilarious imo.

 

[Karsticles]

I only agree with Hsien Ko and even then I feel people aren't playing her like she's supposed to play (and only Capcom knows how to do that). Same for Arthur but again, Capcom really intended him to be this immobile because how he is in the GnG games. Ditto on why he goes into under pants mode after Gold armor, something to with fans of GnG being gluttons for punishment.

I know Capcom intended these things; that's the baffling part: they thought it would work out. While Hsien-ko is not used to her fullest in tournaments, even looking at what she can do when utilized to the maximum (theorycrafting), it's clear that she's just not a well-made character.

Dormammu, on the other hand, I feel is one of the most complete characters in the game. All of your arguments against him seem like you want him to play more rushdown. I do agree a bit on that his Creation levels lack oomph to them but all in all Liberation arts are one of the best game play mechanics and additions in the game. You can't really compare his flight mode to someone like Magneto's flight mode. Next thing you will want fly/unfly combos for Dorm.

It's not about rushdown. Defensively, Dormammu needs to be able to hit opponents near him. Against crouching opponents and small foes, he has no method of hit confirmation.

The Creation spells don't just lack "oomph", they are relatively worthless. I don't want fly/unfly combos for Dormammu (he actually can Flight-extend his combos, but only in level 2 X-Factor, FYI), but I do want some kind of USE for a move. Again, Dormammu is the only character with a Flight mode an absolutely no aerial options that I can think of.

Dorm has teleports, amazing hypers, decent tri-jump, decent projectiles, Flame Carpet, Liberation arts and some sick hit boxes on some of his normals. I know I am not nearly as good as you as playing Dorm (or as knowledgeable) but there is no way anyone can convince me he is anything below Top/High tier in this game.

I'm not saying he's a bad character. I think he's a solid character, but when compared to characters that actually ARE winning tournaments, he feels incomplete. He doesn't need to be reworked entirely, he just needs a few touch-ups. For example, to my knowledge, no other character is unable to chain into their c.H in some form. I don't even want Dormammu to have a full magic series - I appreciate the 2-hit limitation as a part of variation. My issue is that he has no way to hit-confirm off of low attacks.

These are all minor issues to me; I have 1600 matches with him, and I'll keep playing him as my main. Remember, incomplete, not awful and unplayable.

Capcom not giving certain character dashes/air dashes was a conscious decision on their part. They feel that certain characters are better suited in the sidelines as Assists, DHC, TAC option rather than on point. This certainly includes characters like Hulk, Haggar. You get in with your fast characters, get a combo and then either TAC/DHC with a heavy character to do more damage. That was their design philosophy with this game. It also makes the game OMEGA LEVEL HYPE when someone does a comeback with the shitty assist character. Nothing gets my dick hard like catching the teleport with that Lariat XFC into Punch hyper.

Capcom actually said one of their goals is to give every character power on point - I don't consider any character to be "assist tier" in this game. They all have some juice on point. Again, I made it very clear that I know these were conscious decisions on the part of Capcom; that does not make them good decisions.

As far as tiers go, I would agree that the characters who are top right now are those who are versatile with few weaknesses other than low health (except for Wesker). But really, though you aren't going to make a team consisting of top characters without having a top assist with you. A lot of the top assists are on characters who are lower in the tier. If someone like Tron had the same tools as Magneto while having that same assist, everyone would have her on their team.

EM Disruptor is the fastest beam assist in the game, and also causes the least amount of hitstun and damage decay - it's an awesome assist, and arguably the best one for Dormammu to use for teleport mix-ups. I don't see why Tron can't have point power (assuming she doesn't have it for the sake of argument) and assist power while the characters I mention do.

I am not really defending Capcom either but I am trying to convey their rationale for characters. If we go down this road then I too have a "wishlist" for stuff that I want in my characters. Where's my 8 way air dash for Dante? Why doesn't Storm have a LVL3 hyper? Why isn't Hulk forward Gamma Charge invincible but his anti-air is? Why doesn't Spider Man have a self OTG move? Why can Akuma cancel his overhead into a launcher and Ryu can't?

I believe Hulk's anti-air Gamma Charge just has super armor, not invincibility. I think most people can agree that Ryu should be able to cancel his overhead into launcher.

If you really think that Dormammu being able to chain c.L into c.H so he has a way to hit confirm, a basic tool every character deserves to have, is the same fucking thing as giving Dante an 8-way air dash, I don't know what to tell you. I don't expect people who don't play the character to understand how lacking it feels.

Nope, Shield is for characters with tri-jump abilities for the cross up. It's less of a liability because Sentinel is out for so long. That was really more of a half joke though, Sentinel's assist is still very good and is worth having him on your team just for the assist.

I was being purely rhetorical with the Arthur comment. I would probably use Taskmaster's Aim Master L assist if I just wanted a basic projectile to cover up. It's only active for 9 frames, making it hard to punish, it deals 160K damage, and has 9 projectile hit points, meaning it beats out the vast majority of projectiles in the game.

Shumas post hyper taunts are hilarious imo.

They should be cancelable.

 

[Seraphinianus]

I suck ass and everyone on live can do veritable infinites, so that means there are like less than 5 opportunities in a match to make decisions, the rest of the time I'm getting combo'd. I know MvC is not about balance, but some of the shit that happens amazes me.

Player matches are good, I keep rematching and learning to how to avoid tricks people use to confuse other players. I can actually come close to getting a win on all the 9th Lords I get matched up with (everyone is a 9th Lord except me, a lowly Fighter)

 

[Karsticles]

I suck ass and everyone on live can do veritable infinites, so that means there are like less than 5 opportunities in a match to make decisions, the rest of the time I'm getting combo'd. I know MvC is not about balance, but some of the shit that happens amazes me.

Player matches are good, I keep rematching and learning to how to avoid tricks people use to confuse other players. I can actually come close to getting a win on all the 9th Lords I get matched up with (everyone is a 9th Lord except me, a lowly Fighter)

Well, outside of one or two situations, the game has no infinites, and I have never been caught by one in my ~1600 matches. MvC3 is about getting that first hit in - think of it as high stakes fighting.

Also, FYI, 9th Lord is just a step above Fighter. It's not a high rank at all. 1st Lords are high.

 

[Dahbomb]

EM Disruptor is the fastest beam assist in the game, and also causes the least amount of hitstun and damage decay - it's an awesome assist, and arguably the best one for Dormammu to use for teleport mix-ups. I don't see why Tron can't have point power (assuming she doesn't have it for the sake of argument) and assist power while the characters I mention do.

Bad example there on my point, Disruptor is too good in this game I would agree on that. I guess someone more like Wolverine, who don't have all that great assists but is really good on point. Obviously Capcom is not going to make Tron completely useless (or MVC2 assist tier category), she just isn't designed to be the main point character on the team. Would also be sort of senseless that the best on point character on the team is also the best assist because then you will be conflicted as to whether to play the character on point or on assist.

I think most people can agree that Ryu should be able to cancel his overhead into launcher.

Alright, Ryu can combo after his overhead with a launcher if I can 8 way air dash with Dante.

Fair deal.

FYI I was not contending that Dorm should be able to hit confirm his c.L into c.H but more about his other stuff and general viability.

 

[Lost Fragment]

I think at least half of the 4th lord and up people I've beat have ragequit on me.

 

[McNum]

So, uh... how long have Event Match 08 and Event Match 09 been out?

One turns Arcade into survival mode with your health not being restored between fights, and another makes every character in Arcade MODOK (what the hell?).

The MODOK one is Capcom trolling us. You get the "Looking for Love" title for beating it. Yes, really. Capcom can be so odd some times.

 

[B-Genius]

I think at least half of the 4th lord and up people I've beat have ragequit on me.

Tell me about it. Struggling through lag and bastard set-ups for several games, only to come across one guy who you get the better of, and he D/Cs on ya.

The matchmaking is weird too. Why on earth does it pool everyone into below and above 4th Lord? The weird thing is, someone could be the exact same rank as you, but have about 2-300 more matches worth of experience. I know you should just treat everyone the same online, but it's really off-putting when you're trying to face those of a similar level to you, but constantly get pitched against people way out of your league.

Maybe I should just play Player matches...

Edit:

The MODOK one is Capcom trolling us. You get the "Looking for Love" title for beating it. Yes, really. Capcom can be so odd some times.

Just seen this, and yes, sometimes I feel as though this whole game is just one big troll-fest by Capcom. Everything from the way the netcode works to this whole MODOK thing... I love a lot of what they're doing, but I really need some friends to play with before I start taking it too seriously and breaking down!

 

[Dahbomb]

What happened to "rage quitters hell"?

 

[darkblade77]

So many people ragequit, so in interest of giving you the player any match over none you get some of that 'hell on earth'.

 

[Neki]

I just found out the other day that Taskmaster Hyper actually beats Sentinel Drones, or cancels them out at least, so weird. I don't even know if beam hypers beat Sentinel Drones.

 

[Prototype-03]

What happened to "rage quitters hell"?

I had a guy who rage quitted on me twice in a row... in PLAYER match. What are the chances of getting the same guy for player match? Anyway, I msg'ed him afterwards what the point of rage quitting at a player match and he told me "don't tell me how to play the game."

 

[sixteen-bit]

What happened to "rage quitters hell"?

Same place as Fei Long's command grab into ultra and everyone getting buffed in Super.
Don't believe S-Kill's lies!

 

[Karsticles]

Bad example there on my point, Disruptor is too good in this game I would agree on that. I guess someone more like Wolverine, who don't have all that great assists but is really good on point. Obviously Capcom is not going to make Tron completely useless (or MVC2 assist tier category), she just isn't designed to be the main point character on the team. Would also be sort of senseless that the best on point character on the team is also the best assist because then you will be conflicted as to whether to play the character on point or on assist.

So basically Dante? My exact point is that many characters in this game have amazing assists and are awesome point characters. Why do some characters only get half the bag?

Alright, Ryu can combo after his overhead with a launcher if I can 8 way air dash with Dante.

Fair deal.

Hah.

FYI I was not contending that Dorm should be able to hit confirm his c.L into c.H but more about his other stuff and general viability.

I welcome an argument against any of my specific points.

What happened to "rage quitters hell"?

Yes, wherever did that go to? Is it Ranked and Player, or just Player? That might help solve the inquiry.

I had a guy who rage quitted on me twice in a row... in PLAYER match. What are the chances of getting the same guy for player match? Anyway, I msg'ed him afterwards what the point of rage quitting at a player match and he told me "don't tell me how to play the game."

Responses like that make me want to punch people through the screen.

I just found out the other day that Taskmaster Hyper actually beats Sentinel Drones, or cancels them out at least, so weird. I don't even know if beam hypers beat Sentinel Drones.

It beats them straight-up. Beam hypers unequally trade with HSF. Basically, HSF is independent of Sentinel. Your beam will hit Sentinel a few times, then you'll eat the whole HSF.

Same place as Fei Long's command grab into ultra and everyone getting buffed in Super.
Don't believe S-Kill's lies!

He's just the messenger! D-:

 

[Kubisa]

I just found out the other day that Taskmaster Hyper actually beats Sentinel Drones, or cancels them out at least, so weird. I don't even know if beam hypers beat Sentinel Drones.

Akuma's beam hyper doesn't beat them, but if he does his fireball hyper he'll both stay safe and get some hits in.

Akuma's level 3 also moves straight through them.

As for the other characters, I've not experimented enough to know them inside and out with all the different results.

 

[Neki]

Akuma's beam hyper doesn't beat them, but if he does his fireball hyper he'll both stay safe and get some hits in.

Akuma's level 3 also moves straight through them.

As for the other characters, I've not experimented enough to know them inside and out with all the different results.

Sentinel Drones can easily be countered by hypers that have a long enough invincible frames to go through all 3 waves or with hypers that have a invincible start up that goes into a cinematic (usually level 3 hypers easily counter drones). It was just surprising to see a projectile super flat out beat drones, lol. The best cinematic hyper that goes through projectiles probably is X-23 Weapon X Prime, has good start-up and invincibility, you can almost punish any slow recovery on projectile from mid-screen.

I was practicing doing C.Viper's Emergency Combination on reaction to supers, so awesome. I think the only thing it can't go through projectile wise is drones (because it stays on screen regardless of Sentinel gets hit, and 3 waves are spaced out long enough to hit you after you lose your invincible frames). But it is fun going through Taskmaster arrow hyper and Akuma beam hyper, so cool.

 

[Dahbomb]

So basically Dante? My exact point is that many characters in this game have amazing assists and are awesome point characters. Why do some characters only get half the bag?

Dante is like top 3 in this game or at least top 5 anyway. And the guy playing Dante has mad respect anyway because he is playing Dante... GOD OF STYLE.

Yeah I am well aware that some top characters have good assists too, like Amaterasu, Wesker, Akuma and Dante. I guess what separates Tron and Haggar's assist (and to some extent Hsien-Ko) are their safety. Tron with the really small hit box, Haggar with the invulnerability and Hsien-Ko with the armor. These properties make their assists god tier.

Where as with someone like Akuma/Amaterasu, you have to be more careful about busting out their assists because they are out for longer and are attached to weaker characters health wise. Think about it this way.... if Dante's Jam Session and Haggar assist come at the same time both at close range who will win out? You know as well as I do that if something like that happens along with the point character getting in the Lariat, that's 2 characters dead right there. Sometimes having that assist with the extra little property goes the extra mile even at the expense of a shittier overall character.

There are exceptions of course, I mean we ARE talking about MARVEL here. We have characters like Dr. Doom and Iron Man who are not only SOLID on point but have multiple good assists. Then we have someone like VJ who is neither all that great on point and doesn't have great assists either (debatable because VJ technology as far as I am concerned is not explored well enough).

For the sake of future arguments and discussion, we should actually have a MVC3 tier list for GAF. Even if it's preliminary and "LOL-worthy" some interesting discussion can come out of it. I think people did it earlier in the thread but game has evolved over that time.

 

[Neki]

GAF TIER LIST:
1.) Wesker
2.) Everyone else
3.) Hsien-KO

AM I DOING IT RIGHT?

 

[Karsticles]

Dante is like top 3 in this game or at least top 5 anyway. And the guy playing Dante has mad respect anyway because he is playing Dante... GOD OF STYLE.

You're not helping your argument, haha.

Yeah I am well aware that some top characters have good assists too, like Amaterasu, Wesker, Akuma and Dante. I guess what separates Tron and Haggar's assist (and to some extent Hsien-Ko) are their safety. Tron with the really small hit box, Haggar with the invulnerability and Hsien-Ko with the armor. These properties make their assists god tier.

The problem is that fans of these characters actually want to use them on point. Maybe, like a few people on this board, I was excited to use Hsien-ko as more than just an assist.

Where as with someone like Akuma/Amaterasu, you have to be more careful about busting out their assists because they are out for longer and are attached to weaker characters health wise. Think about it this way.... if Dante's Jam Session and Haggar assist come at the same time both at close range who will win out? You know as well as I do that if something like that happens along with the point character getting in the Lariat, that's 2 characters dead right there. Sometimes having that assist with the extra little property goes the extra mile even at the expense of a shittier overall character.

That's not really a fair comparison. Dante and Haggar's assists are used for entirely different reasons. Haggar's might have invincibility, but it doesn't cover the entire vertical of the screen. I also don't think two assists happening to beat each other means anything, really, otherwise Akuma > Dr. Doom's beam assist, but it's not quite so clear unless viewing them from this limited perspective.

Plus, even in your viewpoint, you aren't accounting for the characters that I mentioned earlier, like Viewtiful Joe. The above is an argument of "great point plus good assist vs. good point plus great assist". I can understand this to some degree; I am concerned about "great point plus ass assist", primarily. Viewtiful Joe isn't the only one, either. A lot of characters just have utter ass assists in this game, and there's no reason for it at all. Is Wolverine really so amazing on point that he deserves ass assists, while Dante gets the whole bag? It doesn't seem so, at least.

GAF TIER LIST:
1.) Wesker
2.) Everyone else
3.) Hsien-KO

AM I DOING IT RIGHT?

As per the above discussion, I don't think it's fair to judge a lone character. It's a team-based game. Viewtiful Joe might have ass assists, but he might turn out to be an amazing point when backed by certain characters. How do you judge his worth, then? By what he could be with a proper team, how versatile he is in team placement, or by what he can do alone? Strider is a perfect example of this issue; meh alone, ass in versatility, amazing when properly backed up.

Personally, I want to make a Hsien-ko team, but the netcode is too awful to really use her online. She requires almost as much execution as C. Viper.

 

[Ferrio]

Floe was using She-Hulk + Dormammu and did pretty well; anchored with him.

I do well at it works good, it's just his assist doesn't help my cause really. When I'm being zoned with shehulk, my only real option is to superjump. If I could a good horizontal assist of some sorts, I could work on wave dashing in more safely. Not sure if Akuma is the answer, but those tatsus always fuck me up when I play him.

 

[El Sloth]

GAF TIER LIST:
1.) Wesker
2.) Everyone else
3.) Hsien-KO

AM I DOING IT RIGHT?

No.

GAF Tier List:
1)Cap's Sheild
2)Pipe
3)Drones

I am disappoint son

 

[sixteen-bit]

GAF TIER LIST:
1.) Wesker
2.) Everyone else
3.) Hsien-KO

AM I DOING IT RIGHT?

Where's Bionic Arm?

 

[Dahbomb]

It's not fair, it's Marvel.

Also some characters are much better with assists, like Haggar and Tron. They can legitimately be used on Point if they are backed by proper assists. Same for Captain America, Spider Man and a whole bunch of other characters.

Are there going to be better options for you? Yes there are better characters for certain roles but you brought up the point of "but if I like this character I want to use him on point" so to that I say these characters are only ass if played without assist backing which is why they are considered Low/Mid tier in the first place. Most of these characters pack a huge punch, so if your defense is good and your assist synergy as well you can definitely hang with the top tiers.

Is it difficult? Yes you will be at a disadvantage in some match ups. But it's not an impossible task and many people have made lowered tiered characters work extremely well up the order.

It's also going to feel depressing when you have to fight against a team of Akuma/Wesker/Dante where every assist is good and every point character is deadly. But when you beat that team with your characters that you worked hard to make a good combination out of, you are going to feel good and if people are watching they will get hyped.

And that's Marvel.

Oh and when I talk about tier list, I am talking about if a character is in a team (taking into account that team has synergy with that character) then what are his chances of winning with flawless execution and full knowledge of character strength, weaknesses and match ups.

So if I were to use MVC2 as an example, I would say that Strider is top tier at least and would probably mention with it that he should be backed up by Doom. In MVC3, something like that would be saying Spider Man is High tier if paired with an OTG assist or something like that. Basically you are tiering character at their best even if it's in a limited setting like Strider.