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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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In a game where high damage combos are generally dirt easy, who wants to bother with Iron Man? While IM is definitely worth the effort in terms of execution payoff (I think. At least in terms of mobility and raw damage output sans DHC Glitch), why focus on him when there's Mags, Sent, Phoenix, Ammy, Task, Zero, etc? There's so many good characters in this game, and executing high damage with them is easy.
People will come around to Iron Man eventually, I think, once everyone's execution level increases (not very long down the road). Only problem with him is; I don't think he synergizes teams that well, currently. At least on point. It's hard to DHC from his LvL1 Hyper with a lot of characters because it raises them so high and only his Beam Assist serves any real utility. That's probably why Flash runs him on anchor.
People will come around to Iron Man eventually, I think, once everyone's execution level increases (not very long down the road). Only problem with him is; I don't think he synergizes teams that well, currently. At least on point. It's hard to DHC from his LvL1 Hyper with a lot of characters because it raises them so high and only his Beam Assist serves any real utility. That's probably why Flash runs him on anchor.
Ironman beam assist is really good. Pretty much every competent Ironman I fought uses him as an anchor abusing the hell out of his assist. Either him or Doom has the best beam assist in the game. Though I agree with the consensus that Mags is a better Ironman, but I'll give Ironman the better assist.
Karsticles
Member
Agreed. There's this odd conflict where you want to use the amazing Mystic Ray, but don't want Shuma-Gorath on anchor, and he's not even a good second because his DHCs are so bad.
No way, he's constantly showing off new stuff with Ammy. I love it.
Not at all. IMO, this is the best way to play him against most of the cast. Contrary to popular belief, Dormammu is not a keepaway character. Hell, he can't even keep people away without throwing Chaotic Flames out every 10 seconds. It's a huge discussion, but I'll just leave it at this: if you watch good Dormammu players play, they rush a lot with him using the trijump cross-up j.H.
Yeah, MastaCJ is a good example. He basically just spams those trijumps, and beats players like Josh Wong and SmoothViper.
Iron Man is better to DHC into than out of. He is great as 2nd or 3rd character, those X Factor bonuses do him good (plus the added bonus of a nice assist). And his combos are definitely damaging 700K+ solo BnB damage is no joke, he is a great meter builder too. His team synergy is fine.
He is really being kept back for 3 reasons, all of which are being rectified slowly: Poor damage off of random hit (abare) which people have figured around a bit, execution barrier (again, a bit simpler but good damaging combos are coming up that are consistent) and finally damage off of throw (probably his biggest issue compared to Magneto aside from normals, his throw combos are also VERY space dependent). Also jack of all trades, master of none.
What's keeping him back is that not enough people are using him or not well enough. People still using the Relaunch combo with him which is very inconsistent/hard to pull off when there are a bit easier options for him.
Iron Man's mix ups are fine and so is his mobility. Iron Man has all the tools he needs and you can get around his bad normals by just NOT using them (like cr.H). It definitely sucks when you whiff that launcher, in fact it almost makes you cry.
I have been using him 2nd with Akuma 3rd and I think he is really solid. Most people who have used him haven't even used him with a good assist backing him. Iron Man with Sentinel drone is also scary as hell but who the hell uses it? Hell for the longest of time I have been getting by with using simple combos into an assist relaunch with Akuma + smart bomb if needed.
I do agree though why bother learning hard Iron Man combos when you can do the same with Wolverine/Taskmaster for 1/10th the effort. Especially when some of them miss in live matches. I use Iron Man because he is boss as hell and people I play with like to see me play with Iron Man. It's all about having fun and I have fun with Iron Man a lot.
On the note of Iron Man vs Doom beam. Doom has a bit more durability but knocks away opponent where as Iron Man's beam pins them down but prorates the hits more. I like Iron Man's beam a lot as an assist, great for cover and sometimes when Iron Man is low on health and I have Akuma out that shit has allowed me to fish for so many overheads with Akuma for the win.
He is really being kept back for 3 reasons, all of which are being rectified slowly: Poor damage off of random hit (abare) which people have figured around a bit, execution barrier (again, a bit simpler but good damaging combos are coming up that are consistent) and finally damage off of throw (probably his biggest issue compared to Magneto aside from normals, his throw combos are also VERY space dependent). Also jack of all trades, master of none.
What's keeping him back is that not enough people are using him or not well enough. People still using the Relaunch combo with him which is very inconsistent/hard to pull off when there are a bit easier options for him.
Iron Man's mix ups are fine and so is his mobility. Iron Man has all the tools he needs and you can get around his bad normals by just NOT using them (like cr.H). It definitely sucks when you whiff that launcher, in fact it almost makes you cry.
I have been using him 2nd with Akuma 3rd and I think he is really solid. Most people who have used him haven't even used him with a good assist backing him. Iron Man with Sentinel drone is also scary as hell but who the hell uses it? Hell for the longest of time I have been getting by with using simple combos into an assist relaunch with Akuma + smart bomb if needed.
I do agree though why bother learning hard Iron Man combos when you can do the same with Wolverine/Taskmaster for 1/10th the effort. Especially when some of them miss in live matches. I use Iron Man because he is boss as hell and people I play with like to see me play with Iron Man. It's all about having fun and I have fun with Iron Man a lot.
On the note of Iron Man vs Doom beam. Doom has a bit more durability but knocks away opponent where as Iron Man's beam pins them down but prorates the hits more. I like Iron Man's beam a lot as an assist, great for cover and sometimes when Iron Man is low on health and I have Akuma out that shit has allowed me to fish for so many overheads with Akuma for the win.
Is jumping H better than jumping S for cross ups with Dorm? I always use j.S.
I agree that Dorm can play great rushdown. He can also play great keep away too. I think his true strength lies in his flame carpet. My Dorm gets eaten alive by rushdown characters if I don't remember to abuse the carpet. I like using Hulk assist (antiair) to let me keepaway and constantly have a carpet laid out.
I agree that Dorm can play great rushdown. He can also play great keep away too. I think his true strength lies in his flame carpet. My Dorm gets eaten alive by rushdown characters if I don't remember to abuse the carpet. I like using Hulk assist (antiair) to let me keepaway and constantly have a carpet laid out.
Man that Wesker off screen trick is dirty as hell. X-copied.
I love the emphasis on not going into auto pilot mode with Gun shot -> Teleports. It's like the first thing players need to learn with Wesker.
Next video needs to have an "America's favorite combo" bit. And I am hyped for the $452K money match.
I love the emphasis on not going into auto pilot mode with Gun shot -> Teleports. It's like the first thing players need to learn with Wesker.
Next video needs to have an "America's favorite combo" bit. And I am hyped for the $452K money match.
I quite like Cr. H. People just get salty about it because it makes his Magic Series unintuitive to perform. You can combo with it using Iron Man's mobility and an Assist.
The lack of range regarding his launcher is a misconception - the hitbox simply extends more diagonally than horizontally. Almost any range Cr. M hits (which lifts them off the ground), S Launches. Even at ranges you'd swear it should whiff. Only at the very tip of Cr. M. will S whiff. You won't need it any situation you can't land Cr. M, so I don't see it as a big deal.
Iron Man gets a consistent 500k off his air throw. Not bad. His ground throw is another story, but it doesn't seem to bother Dante too much. Not that it isn't a negative.
And regarding "abare" - I really don't get this. How is the inability to get damage off a "random hit" not the fault of the user and how is it more specific to Iron Man than any other character?
The lack of range regarding his launcher is a misconception - the hitbox simply extends more diagonally than horizontally. Almost any range Cr. M hits (which lifts them off the ground), S Launches. Even at ranges you'd swear it should whiff. Only at the very tip of Cr. M. will S whiff. You won't need it any situation you can't land Cr. M, so I don't see it as a big deal.
Iron Man gets a consistent 500k off his air throw. Not bad. His ground throw is another story, but it doesn't seem to bother Dante too much. Not that it isn't a negative.
And regarding "abare" - I really don't get this. How is the inability to get damage off a "random hit" not the fault of the user and how is it more specific to Iron Man than any other character?
sixteen-bit
Member
Can't wait until I'm done with work and gym to check it out.LeMaximilian said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
Can anyone help me make a couple lists? I need characters that can DHC glitch in AND out, and characters that can do 700k+ damage meterless/with power up hyper.
DHC in/out:
Magneto
Dante
Wesker
Thor
Haggar
Jill
X-23
700k+ meterless:
Magneto
Taskmaster
DHC in/out:
Magneto
Dante
Wesker
Thor
Haggar
Jill
X-23
700k+ meterless:
Magneto
Taskmaster
You can definitely use it as an OTG and use an assist to continue the combo for a bit. I also use it to troll and just toss it randomly for the block damage. I have learned to love the low rocket.Kimosabae said:
I have had the launcher miss after the cr.M, at the very tip of its range (Edit: NVM you already mentioned this, ignore this then). It needs more horizontal range that's for sure.
Abare is very important in this game. It's why Wolverine is so good. Any button of Wolverine is converted into a high damage combo. You can't say the same for Iron man. It's also why Spider Man is lower rated, because even though he gets in a lot of random hits he can't convert it into real damage. I am talking about stuff like hitting people in the air and then converting that into a solid combo. With Iron Man you have to be much more mindful about spacing. Even if you do get to convert it, the execution is way higher than someone like Magneto/Wolverine and they also yield more average damage.
Is that with assists or without assists? Pretty sure a lot of characters touch that mark of 700K with assists. List of DHC in/out characters is listed on SRK.God's Beard said:
Some characters who can also DHC In/Out: Trish, Tron, Amaterasu and Deadpool.
Some characters who can probably dish out 700K+ meterless (with assists): Spider Man, Hulk, Sentinel, Dante, Wolverine, Iron Man, Zero, Dr Doom,
Joe gets special mention because he can kill off a character with no meter thanks to his bomb reset trick.
Other characters build so much meter in their combos that they can start off with no meter and end a combo in like 2 hypers, effectively killing a character. Tron is one of them and so is Doom.
"God's Beard!"
Member
What's Amaterasu's best combo after slow down?
Cloudius12
Member
oh dam they deleted the archive, it was available this morning when I checked.Hag said:
Karsticles
Member
This is mostly anecdotal since we don't have hitbox data, but in my experiences, if you're just doing a superjump into tridash right away, H is superior since it comes out faster and has the better hitbox behind Dormammu. If you're using it off of Mass Change H, j.H is superior because it comes out faster. If you're coming from the front/on top of your opponent, they're both roughly equal, because you can just learn to time j.S and j.H differently, though j.S seems to have a larger hitbox beneath Dormammu.
Again, that's just my personal experience.
Sword mode, dash with sword and repeat. Kills off most characters.God's Beard said:
And they deleted the Offcast stream which is strange because I have it downloaded on my harddrive (part 2 and part 3, where JChen gets all salty).
Also I am finding that having a TOD that is just 2 hypers is just better than using the DHC glitch. Like any BnB Hyper (like let's say Super Skrull) into Gamma Crush is a TOD and the best part is that you don't have to worry about it being patched.
Other times you are going to have that extra bar for the LVL3 which is almost always a TOD. After you run out of meter, you are going to have X Factor for the TOD. DHC glitch however is great for two things: Killing off a character in the opener and huge damage/TOD off of throws.
Dahbomb said:
I figured that's what you were getting at - and I think you're wrong. At least, I strongly disagree. Most characters have a problem with this, because it seems like hit stun deterioration effects naked aerials (outside Air Combo status) differently. Wolverine is a special case, because he can just mash Drill Claw > Dive Kick if he lands anything.
In any case, Iron Man can combo into Hyper if he can get in a quick Magic Series (MMH). He doesn't have the problem regarding spacing you speak of, because he doesn't need to land S to do this, and that's the only he has that's deprived of absolute horizontal range.
Outside that, I just don't think the community focus is there yet. Give it time, and ToDs will extend beyond cr. Ls and Jump Ins, I think.
GhostRidah
Member
Awesome stuffLeMaximilian said:
sixteen-bit
Member
link isn't working for me :/Grecco said:
what is it?
You can go into his modified BnB combos (like the fly/unfly ones) off of a random aerial hit? Seems hard as hell to do but I will give it the benefit of the doubt.Kimosabae said:
With spacing I mean that with someone like Wolverine or Magneto, if they hit you with an H even if you are in the air or on the ground or if they hit you at the very tip of it's hit box they will still get a full combo on you. Same for Dante. But again, benefit of doubt is given here.
I would definitely like to see Iron Man rape people off of aerial hits (go into "autopilot" combo of off j.M).
No, no Fly/Unfly (at least, in anyway I've been able to find). I'm talking simple MMH into Hyper on landing. I think that's a good start for a random aerial hit.
Wolverine has the benefit of being able to mash Drill Claw to Dive Kick if he lands anything. What Fly combos would work in a situation if I landed, say, a j. M on an aerial opponent with Mags? I can't imagine any.
Wolverine has the benefit of being able to mash Drill Claw to Dive Kick if he lands anything. What Fly combos would work in a situation if I landed, say, a j. M on an aerial opponent with Mags? I can't imagine any.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
LOL they're probably editing out the creeper cam.
Ok that was what I meant. I am pretty sure Iron Man can do MMH d+H double jump MHS as well off of an aerial hit if it's close enough.Kimosabae said:
With Magneto, in the air if he hits you with j.H you can eat a potential TOD combo (players of Magneto don't really use j.M at all outside of combos). Thing is that since he is tri-jumping so much that if he catches you with the j.H, only the best of players can adjust themselves well enough to follow it up. It doesn't happen often but some players (like Marn) can do it, even adjusting the combo so that it corrects the height of the opponent/player to optimum level. Magneto can also go into a full combo off of anti-air jabs.
Dante just goes into Day 1 combo off of a random aerial hit (Killer Bee combo). I guess it's not really that big of a deal and certainly Iron man is much better off than Spider Man in that regard.
Desk with some really solid Spencer/V Joe combos
It's sick how he uses those Voomerangs in the aerial combo, really ups the meterless damage for VJ.
See though, if you're saying "Random Hits" I'm also interpreting that as being able to do large damage off of a large variety of attacks, not just an unexpected hit landed in regards to one attack.
Anyways, that's semantics. I'm gonna start focusing on it more. You may be right to an extent, but I think the user just has to provide more in terms of execution to get the most out of those random hits - in typical Iron Man fashion. But essentially, of I can land a Fierce or Special in a series, I can get a LvL 1 Hyper with IM.
You can do some Fly/Unfly stuff actually. I just found that it requires a Light attack after Unfly if you want to start a Magic Series. Someone needs to experiment more with naked Aerial Attack Hitstun Deterioration - it's clearly unique. After launch, IM usually can get a Fierce after Unfly.
Anyways, that's semantics. I'm gonna start focusing on it more. You may be right to an extent, but I think the user just has to provide more in terms of execution to get the most out of those random hits - in typical Iron Man fashion. But essentially, of I can land a Fierce or Special in a series, I can get a LvL 1 Hyper with IM.
You can do some Fly/Unfly stuff actually. I just found that it requires a Light attack after Unfly if you want to start a Magic Series. Someone needs to experiment more with naked Aerial Attack Hitstun Deterioration - it's clearly unique. After launch, IM usually can get a Fierce after Unfly.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I'd like to see it again since I was only half paying attention to the live stream. I think he first said "I can't swear on the stream," walked a few feet away from the mic, then started dropping f-bombs left and right.Kadey said:
Any fellow scrub gaffers want to fight my Ryu/Zero/Akuma? XBL GT is ParallaxScroll.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
That seems to happen a lot on streams, but not when people are blowing up like that.Grecco said:
Edit: Damn you, online dropped buster relaunch combos. They work so good in practice mode.
"God's Beard!"
Member
They thought that if they turned the mics away, you wouldn't hear them.
Dominican Power
Member
Online Warrior is godlike.
Prototype-03
Member
God's Beard said:
My favorite part was when they said "we're going to take a break, we'll be right back!"
*turns mic away, stays in chair*
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Parallax Scroll said:
Yeah probably. They went kinda over the line with it tbh.
Professor Beef
Banned
The commercials don't show up for everyone, but I think that part was an honest mistake.Prototype-03 said:
Prototype-03
Member
Professor Beef said:
Could be, but it sure looked funny.
Ultimoo said:
Or you could be like me and try to do a regular combo... then fail at it because of the slow.
Can't you also do (l, m, h, qcb+M) x3, l, m, h, f+hhhhhh, S, finisher?
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Option Select streaming them some Mahvel: http://www.option-select.com/stream/
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Someone said before that Marn was like universally hated by people or something a while ago. I still don't really know the reason why.Grecco said:
I only really got interested in the fighting game pro circuit after Marvel came out, and it's quite the soap opera.
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