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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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Karsticles
Member
I liked your matches. They are very entertaining. Why do you use Doom's beam over the rest of the cast's?
Thank you for understanding the real issue. It's not about Sentinel's balance, it's about the whimsy.
Endless praises to Desk.
To actively wish for people who enjoy a character to have it nerfed and take pleasure in it...
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
SmokeMaxX said:
Actually, I really think the more relevant point isn't how easy Sentinel is to beat, but how much of a chore it could be. The character with the easiest basic attack patterns to learn and execute, beams on tap, and also the biggest damage sponge.... eh? Even if Sent is vulnerable to instant overheads and has a huge crouching hit box, the bigger problem and pink elephant in the room is that Sent's balance made people lazy. Having an extra vulnerable hit box means a lot less when you got so much health you sometimes don't even notice eating damage because you were playing stupid.
Guys like Thor and Haggar need their Mighty Health because they're going to suffer all kinds of shit and do so while executing a much more intricate and varied strategy compared to the generic Sent usage. A great point was also brought up about the health adjustment making picking Sent purely for easy mode assist obsolete.
Compare Sent to Modok, who also "suffers" from having a huge crouching hitbox, huge easy to hit body overall, but less than 1,000,000 health. Modok can be a great character, even deadly, but Modok players cannot play stupid like Sentinel players could. If you don't know how to play Modok you get destroyed easily.
Honestly, I'd RATHER play Sentinel with less health, because now the character seems less boring. the overall point is that whatever the matchup and whether or not Sentinel was universally OP or not... the character was thoughtless to play and a psychological crutch for even good players. IMHO, I suspect that's why we haven't seen a lot of Sent teams winning tournaments.... because in the streams I have seen at least, teams built around Sent even at higher levels are just using Sentinel on auto-pilot half the time. Lazy attributes encourage lazy play.
Edit: I should added that yes, I think Sent's balance was lazier than anything else in the game, including DISRUTAR. There's some temptingly easy and effective angles with many other characters... but nothing as bad as Sent.
SolarPowered
Member
This is a nice little compilation. He does good work.LeMaximilian said:
I certainly take pleasure in seeing someone's negative reaction if they use Sentinel and they have the a bad attitude about it, but I don't really want to rub it in for anyone else. Most of the Sentinel users I've played against and talk with tend to get on my nerves so I'm enjoying this thoroughly.Karsticles said:
shaowebb
Member
LeMaximilian said:
Good stuff man. Looks like you were playing pre-patch sentinel. You're matchups are sure to change online soon. Keep us posted. In addition , I'd love to see you do a vid that's heavy on Spiderman or Dormammu sometime. Any chance you'll do character breakdown vids later on?
Also, holy crap do you ever look like Nicholas cage from Con-Air.
corrosivefrost
Member
SolarPowered said:This is a nice little compilation. He does good work.
I certainly take pleasure in seeing someone's negative reaction if they use Sentinel and they have the a bad attitude about it, but I don't really want to rub it in for anyone else. Most of the Sentinel users I've played against and talk with tend to get on my nerves so I'm enjoying this thoroughly.
I was merely enjoying the irony that those who were a huge cause of saltiness in the community are likely now very salty themselves. Personally, I think they went a bit too low, but hey, I'm still a fan of the nerfing, since I think Sentinel was a bit overpowered.
What you say echoes mostly how I feel though.
I look forward to watching how Mike Ross responds to this -- his emphatic love of the robotic prophet will surely provide some sort of amusement in the next excellent adventures.
And besides, a majority of the main uses of Sentinel aren't really affected by his health; hyper/super armor is the same, he still has one of the best DHC hypers to use for the damage reset trick, his assist is still one of the best in the game, and his XF3 bonuses haven't changed, so he's still going to be a handful as an anchor.
DR2K said:
Exactly.
spindashing
Banned
I AIN'T EVEN MAD. FUCK THE KNICKS.
shaowebb
Member
I still don't think this balances Sentinel, though. It only keeps him out of low level play. Every character in the game by this point has anti-sentinel tech that people finally understood enough to use on the big guy so his health was noticeably needed in the design.
If they wanted to balance sentinel then they needed to adjust his X factor bonus. Thats all. He's still just as dangerous as ever and only sloppy players will be in trouble for this because their used to not covering approaches as heavy as they should because they knew they could survive a combo before.
No. What, we're gonna see now is a LOT of chip-outs on Sentinel since he's such a huge target resulting in a completely different style of Sentinel play that I'm not sure is best for the character. His wave dash is sweet, and his air is great, but something that big having to stay all on top you because it's too afraid of chip will break the play style of the character.
I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into this if I think Sentinel players will change how they use him, but I just don't think his health was ever an issue. I felt his X-factor was ridiculous, but he was punishable enough as it was. Now, hes gonna die so easily that his damage isn't really usable with out a good setup or assist coverage...though that may be what they were after.
Lots of good arguments from people in here and I know I came in mad salty over this and I still feel it's wrong, but I'll wait and see if this feels better after awhile. Maybe it will result in better stuff, or maybe I'm still right and robbing health from a character is wrong.
I'll just have to play folks and see.
If they wanted to balance sentinel then they needed to adjust his X factor bonus. Thats all. He's still just as dangerous as ever and only sloppy players will be in trouble for this because their used to not covering approaches as heavy as they should because they knew they could survive a combo before.
No. What, we're gonna see now is a LOT of chip-outs on Sentinel since he's such a huge target resulting in a completely different style of Sentinel play that I'm not sure is best for the character. His wave dash is sweet, and his air is great, but something that big having to stay all on top you because it's too afraid of chip will break the play style of the character.
I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into this if I think Sentinel players will change how they use him, but I just don't think his health was ever an issue. I felt his X-factor was ridiculous, but he was punishable enough as it was. Now, hes gonna die so easily that his damage isn't really usable with out a good setup or assist coverage...though that may be what they were after.
Lots of good arguments from people in here and I know I came in mad salty over this and I still feel it's wrong, but I'll wait and see if this feels better after awhile. Maybe it will result in better stuff, or maybe I'm still right and robbing health from a character is wrong.
I'll just have to play folks and see.
Goddamn, I just realized I'm going to have to change up my team badly. Sentinel's assist was a great help, but on a team with Ammy and Phoenix, I need someone who can soak up a bit of damage. I just got horribly chipped out with him, and before I knew it he was dead. Sentinel is now more of a liability than a threat for me now. Fuck.
Or they found these problems before too. There was a recent interview on capcom unity that said there were some things that the community found that the dev team found after release but before the community found them. Also even if some glitches were patched it does not mean that sentinel hp reduction was not planned along time ago.yeb said:
That logic is flawed.
Quit owning me for free online. Signed MThanded.Dartastic said:
Especially the match where i ran away successfully and forgot that after you used phoenix's hyper you cant transform. You proceeded to chip the ish out of me. Gotta get my mind right. I hate fighting five bar phoenix.
People need to stop also evaluating Sent on his own. This is a team game, you can't take a character out of the box and say he's balanced. If this was a 1v1 game, yes I'd say Sent was fine. But it's not, with assists, regerating health, and dhcs you have to evaluate characters on a bigger picture. You could take any team and throw Sent in it, and he'd synergize excellently with no real drawbacks. You can't say that with many other characters.
K.MThanded said:
I was thinking Taskmaster also, his assist could be good with my team, and he's a good all around character.Grecco said:
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I think that Sentinel picture with the barrel of tears could use a slight tweak right about now. I have absolutely no sympathy for the Sentinel users. What?! My character now has a reasonable amount of health and great assists?! That's not fair!
Sorry if that comes off bitter, but having to fight a Sentinel in every other online match was beyond annoying.
Grizzlyjin - Proud She-Hulk Player
Sorry if that comes off bitter, but having to fight a Sentinel in every other online match was beyond annoying.
Grizzlyjin - Proud She-Hulk Player
shaowebb
Member
dralla said:
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. People will actually be trying to come up with assists to help him out instead of the other way around now. It's gonna get interesting to say the least. Definitely plays hell on Sentinel as anchor assist teams.
I'm betting we see more variety in assist setups real soon due to this. I'm thinking Taskmaster and Ammy will be on some teams that were Sentinel assist based. These two just have some good ranged assists that are easy to learn combos for on teams.
As one star falls others will rise up.
Ferrio said:
This is why I roll my eyes when I hear something like, "Half the cast beats Sentinel." When you face Sent, you don't just go up against him. You go up against his DHC and assist properties, both of which inherently make ANY point character dangerous. When he's on point, he works extremely well with other assists creating opening for him. When in X-Factor, he's a fucking monster.
So, yeah... if Sentinel is by himself, with no X-Factor... he's not that scary. But that's not how people should be comparing characters in this game at all.
Karsticles
Member
1) You forgot the other edge of the hyper/super armor: those moves are all highly punishable on block; the health nerf makes them even riskier to use.
2) A good DHC hyper for the reset trick is hardly a primary point for judging a character's power, and his was certainly nowhere near the best.
3) Level 3 X-Factor makes everyone ridiculous, and I bet any Sentinel player would be just fine with having his power-up nerfed during this state (along with most of the cast). It's just a dumb mechanic.
4) His assist is much, much less useful now. Ever eaten an Ice Storm while calling Hidden Missiles or Senbu Pu? You practically lose the assist just from this one hyper, and now Sentinel is on the same level.
I felt he was too much of a liability before the patch, which is why I dropped him. Now, I just feel bad for Sentinel fans.
Sentinel on point at the start of the match is like starting without a character if your opponent is good. He just gets devoured by any kind of competent rushdown. Why do you think Marn has been snapping Sentinel IN? You don't snap the scariest point character in, you snap the weakest point character in.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
GuardianE said:
Which goes to show how people have been playing him. This looks like it's going to make him more of a team player now, instead of just the star of the squad.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I already play Sent at point. I already played turtley and careful, because I needed him alive the whole match to work with my assists. Me so scruby.
To anyone that enjoys this nerf: Please get one of your characters nerfed, and see if it's still so funny.
Seriously, this is the kind of thing that hurts the game competitively. Do you learn to deal with Tron's assist, or just wait for her to get nerfed? If enough people complain, it will happen. How about DHC tricks that could take off 1.3m with one combo? Just tell yourself that you'll survive that combo a month from now anyway. Phoenix? Just wait, let your Capgods fix everything, and you'll never need to learn to control it.
Seriously, this is the kind of thing that hurts the game competitively. Do you learn to deal with Tron's assist, or just wait for her to get nerfed? If enough people complain, it will happen. How about DHC tricks that could take off 1.3m with one combo? Just tell yourself that you'll survive that combo a month from now anyway. Phoenix? Just wait, let your Capgods fix everything, and you'll never need to learn to control it.
Shadow mode patches. Jill/Shuma DLC patch. They had opportunities to change this stuff before, along with other things that were planned before release. Instead, an infinite, a glitch, and a common complaint all from AFTER release, all got addressed in this one patch.MThanded said:
shaowebb
Member
Karsticles said:
Ditto. I did the same thing and its why Im still a bit salty. I feel the same way.
Karsticles said:
Good point. I'm betting that he just gets tossed out of teams by people more than he gets moved around in them due to this. Giant punishable targets aren't exactly too helpful on a team in most scenarios.
He's gonna be brought into teams now almost entirely for X-factor since his assists are now so dangerous to use.
Rocket punch may very well replace the drones entirely on teams that have sentinel since it will get him out quick. And due to this that means he will not be used to keep people out so often or juggle them with his assist, but he will be used more for getting a good ground bounce or overhead with his assist...didn't Rocket Punch cancel projectiles too?
Both of those were talked about way prior to release also. I was always under impression it takes quite a while for a patch/update to hit the system.yeb said:
Also characters were discussed along time ago so no balance patch was coming with that.
SolarPowered
Member
See my avatar.yeb said:
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Dartastic said:
Any tips against Morrigan? Her flight mode into overhead is owning big time and her normals are so fast she gets in your face and stays there. Probably should use more push block, but seem to have a problem when blocking overhead into low...
Also for some reason Hsien Ko is killing me... never know whats punishable with those large hit boxes, damn team darkstalker...
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
yeb said:
I main Dictator in SSF4
I wouldn't go that far. People learn to adapt or they switch characters.
I do think Tron's flame assist is bs, but others have invincibility, so it's not that bad.
shaowebb said:
How's the bombing run assist? No one uses it, but it fills the screen and the drones don't seem to disappear if Sentinel is hit.
DarkoMaledictus said:
Try jumping at her and push blocking in the air. It eliminates the high/low guessing game until you get used to it.
Oldschoolgamer said:
You could say that about pretty much anything. If people were having trouble with Sentinel pre-patch, they needed to learn to adapt or switch characters to deal with him. If they randomly remove the invincibility on tron's flame assist, people will have to adapt or switch characters since that assist no longer fills the role it used to.
The fact that Capcom was ballsy enough to do a big change like this so quickly without a peep is the thing that scares me more than what actually changed.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
shaowebb said:
Gah haha, my wife is dying here.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Oldschoolgamer said:
Some seem to approach Sentinel as if he should be propped up to compensate for the fact that he fills the screen; I can't agree with that thinking. The result of propping him up has already been seen and doesn't take six months of play to uncover. When he can solo (at most with a few assists and a DHC) as point character, the only way to make him viable is to make him too safe.
The fact that he is half the screen should be his major weakness. He shouldn't be able to nearly solo most of the cast. It'd be like trying to find something to prop Haggar up with so he is just as good against zone characters as up close... you'd likely make the character boring, able to be superior in all situations.
Sent should be a team player. Now perhaps he will become what he looks like: a heavy artillery piece you roll out during the correct stage of your assault, then move back when the enemy rallies.
It's why I don't think a damage nerf would have been the right call. If you nerfed damage and not health, Sent would remain a sponge but wouldn't have the output to make it worth keeping him just as a tank in many team configurations. It'd be better to pick any other character who also had 1k-1.2k health, but similar damage/DHC and lacked Sent's weaknesses such as size and instant overhead vulnerability. Why stick with the giant robot sized target when he no longer does exceptional damage? Good players would just sigh, rub their temples, and dutifully get in over and over until Sent is dead without having done enough damage to justify being there.
Ah heh; perhaps this also means that more people will experiment with high health characters like Thor and Haggar for the survivability factor.
I hope you don't think low tier characters are immune to nerfs.SolarPowered said:
Jill wasn't finished, and I'm sure they were playing with Sentinel long before he was revealed. You have enough room to fool yourself, but this was clearly a knee jerk reaction. There's obvious evidence that this was in response to what was found shortly after release.MThanded said:
He got seriously buffed in SSF4. Unless you're playing AE already, I don't see your point.Oldschoolgamer said:
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