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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
- Thread starter keraj37
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DeepBreath87
Banned
What are you talking about? Who said do nothing? Certainly not me. You’re arguing against the voices in your head.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The claims of the overloaded hospital systems, at least in NYC, were greatly exaggerated. It never got to that point. The ventilator nonsense was so overblown too.
Keep in mind the lockdowns were predicated on Neil Ferguson's hysterical models that were total garbage and proven to be garbage in the first week or two of the lockdown. They predicted total carnage even with a lockdown which didn't come to pass, not even close - I think hospital usage was like 15% or 25% of the model's predicted lockdown rate.
The truth is, NY could have and should have started reopening by mid-April, and should have been at more or less full reopening by Independence Day.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not white-washing, my point is that the death count is the least-manipulable statistic (albeit it can still be done) and gives us the best metric for what's actually going on. Any use of pure infection counts without accounting for population, regionality and testing regimes (and that's what mostly happens when people talk about case counts) is about as meaningful as picking a number out of a hat.
It is a disastrous state, I have no idea how I will deal with it for the next 6 weeks (but I assume it will last longer). My own work at a G8 university is gone now due to the lockdowns.
But what has most impacted me is not being able to do even the most simple of activities. Going for a walk in the evening, when no one was around was one of the small pleasures I had but that right has now been taken away too. How the fuck will I infact anyone in suburan Melbourne when there is no one around??? When we also weak masks too? This state is done for.
Last week I was bombarding social media and news comments sites regarding masks, and the fact that Dr Sutton's own research cast doubt on the efficacy of masks. If you are interested, here is his own paper:
Do Anaesthetists Need to Wear Surgical Masks in the Operating Theatre?
I knew the writing was on the wall with the imposition of masks, but the speed of the stage 4 introduction took me by surprise.
I fully expect that next week we will be discussing stage 5, and what that entails. No exercise? No daily runs to the local IGA perhaps? Who knows what they will next implement. No bonking?
I am over it. First chance I get I am out of this state. I just hope we can reach stage 6 before then:
As a fully trained PhD economist I cannot add anything else to what you wrote:
"- All non essential retailers and businesses shut down. Thats another 250,000 people out of work on top of our already record high number"
This is an economic disaster on an unprecedented scale. This is just in one week too. I don't need to extrapolate to the rest of the supply chain and how it will reverberate there.
You do not need a technocrat to convey the utter insanity of what is happening in Melbourne. That is just economics, let alone the gathering storm of possible societal disaster.
Stay safe and look after your loved ones.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hospitals saw fewer heart attacks and strokes as the coronavirus pandemic struck — and nobody knows why
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/coronavirus-pandemic-lowered-emergency-room-visits-why.html
Gee, I wonder why?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/coronavirus-pandemic-lowered-emergency-room-visits-why.html
Gee, I wonder why?
DeepBreath87
Banned
You’re right that the infection counts can be misleading. The key numbers are the concrete ones. Hospitalizations, ICU patients, and deaths. We cannot even estimate the true number of cases because it’s so dependent on people who might not even know they’re sick getting tested.
Hospitals saw fewer heart attacks and strokes as the coronavirus pandemic struck — and nobody knows why
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/coronavirus-pandemic-lowered-emergency-room-visits-why.html
Gee, I wonder why?
It is a poor reflection on the health system when it shows itself to be agenda driven.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Yep - those are also good numbers to work with, although it's worth noting that some of those will be lower for the 2nd wave as we'll know rather more about the disease and thus not send so many to their deaths on ventilators, etc. It makes it hard to make comparisons over time. Overall I do honestly think we're over the worst of it and any second wave will be pretty straightforward to manage, and at least the UK gov has finally figured out that it can lock regions down rather than the whole country when spikes happen.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
what agenda is that? profit seeking?
Incentives can always lead to warped outcomes. Yes, profit seeking can do it. It has in the past. This is something that we have grappled with for the past 100 years in economics. Incentives are powerful and can or will lead to outcomes that are suboptimal. No matter who is in power.
I won't strongly come down upon medical professionals outside my country as I don't have data, but if I am allowed to conjecture, yes profit seeking could easily do it. The money motive is extraordinarily powerful. Just like the rest of us, the medical or academic world is not above corrupt practices (be it in a publicly or privately funded setting).
In my hometown, the Covid-19 outbreak we now have can be traced to the lack of proper quarantine of inbound travelers. The state government here (surprisingly one of the most progressive we have had - and I say this as someone who has published with substantial elements of progressive thoughts), implemented a program where the quarantine guards were casual staff with zero training. Why? Probably because it was cheaper.
I won't even delve into the aged care disaster that is happening here in Melbourne (suffice to say, regulators, public health officials, churches, and private operators are all culpable).
I have no ideological bone in this game (especially outside Australia), but once this period is done and dusted it will be interesting to see the analysis of numbers. But, it will take a few years for it to all come out.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The government told hospitals they cannot treat people for non-COVID related things. Then the government told hospitals they would pay hospitals more money for every COVID case and death. We are supposed to be shocked when all sorts of weird numbers come out of that situation? If you write for a mainstream news site and/or believe in the mainstream narrative, apparently the answer is yes.
There you go. There is so much information coming out of every country it is hard to keep up :/.
I am not a health economist (my own area is financial economics/wealth management), but I would love to read a proper study of how incentives have warped the health care response. People should not take this as meaning that the free market is unable to fix issues or that government is just as bad, just that it occurs.
We have seen this in the financial services industry across the world in both high regulated and non-regulated systems. Why not the health sector? Humans are humans. We are self-interested bastards. I know I am.
But we might have to resurrect the thread in 3 to 5 years to discuss these studies.
Ugh, I've posted too much....
All I will say is this on the covid issue.
At least in my hometown of Melbourne, I think there has been government overreach. Democratic oversight has been removed. The powers of the local legislature have become subordiante to health bureaucrats. Now, we also have a "state of disaster" declared where the police force is calling the shots in effect.
A health issue has been transformed into a law and order issue. This should never happen. Police should not be bashing car windows of citizens because they are running late getting home. How on earth does this combats a virus is beyond me.
Ah well.
No matter who you are or where you live, stay safe and out of trouble
CloudNull
Banned
Bullshit... he is terrible. Dr Campbell knows more than him and called this all before clown Fauci did.
Cracklox
Member
It is a disastrous state, I have no idea how I will deal with it for the next 6 weeks (but I assume it will last longer). My own work at a G8 university is gone now due to the lockdowns.
But what has most impacted me is not being able to do even the most simple of activities. Going for a walk in the evening, when no one was around was one of the small pleasures I had but that right has now been taken away too. How the fuck will I infact anyone in suburan Melbourne when there is no one around??? When we also weak masks too? This state is done for.
Last week I was bombarding social media and news comments sites regarding masks, and the fact that Dr Sutton's own research cast doubt on the efficacy of masks. If you are interested, here is his own paper:
Do Anaesthetists Need to Wear Surgical Masks in the Operating Theatre?
I knew the writing was on the wall with the imposition of masks, but the speed of the stage 4 introduction took me by surprise.
I fully expect that next week we will be discussing stage 5, and what that entails. No exercise? No daily runs to the local IGA perhaps? Who knows what they will next implement. No bonking?
I am over it. First chance I get I am out of this state. I just hope we can reach stage 6 before then:
As a fully trained PhD economist I cannot add anything else to what you wrote:
"- All non essential retailers and businesses shut down. Thats another 250,000 people out of work on top of our already record high number"
This is an economic disaster on an unprecedented scale. This is just in one week too. I don't need to extrapolate to the rest of the supply chain and how it will reverberate there.
You do not need a technocrat to convey the utter insanity of what is happening in Melbourne. That is just economics, let alone the gathering storm of possible societal disaster.
Stay safe and look after your loved ones.
Sorry to hear about your job. I'm pissed about all of the thinking and (lack of) reasoning behind this, but I was already out of work as a result of lockdown 1, so I can only imagine how others feel who have been personally impacted harder this time.
And ya, further escalating this wouldn't surprise me. It's been like clockwork so far. 'Fear the second wave'. A few weeks later cases spike. 'Maybe another stage 3 lockdown' - lockdown happens again. 'Discussing mandating masks'. A few days later we all have to wear masks. 'Stage 4 lockdown might be needed' - stage 4 lockdown happens. I've already seen a little discussion around stage 5 and what it would look like, so it wouldn't surprise me.
As for the restrictions, I've been flaunting them where possible. First few nights went for a few walks through the hood like 1-2am to get out and stretch the legs. Might go for another after I post this too (i'm such a badass). I'm not wearing a mask if I'm outside by myself either. I carry one though, but only wear it so places of business will allow a transaction to take place between us, but thats it. I'll prob be fined for something stupid in the next 6 weeks or however long this stupidity goes on for, but I honestly don't care. It's worth it knowing I haven't been turned into a good little lapdog, that asks how high Mr Andrews would like me to jump, when he says so.
Oh, and that's quite the marvelous avatar you have too
DeepBreath87
Banned
You Aussies really have some crazy stuff going on. What are the general feelings about this? Are people happy with their leadership?
Insane Metal
Member
Novel bunyavirus re-emerges in China, kills seven | Taiwan News | Aug. 5, 2020 15:15
www.taiwannews.com.tw
Not another pandemic by any means, but... Jesus Christ, China.
Cracklox
Member
Its only 1 part of the country at the moment, and thats because we have a wannabe dictator running the state.
The 1st lockdown I think people were reasonably accepting. The latest martial law thats been imposed though is something of a tipping point for quite a few i believe. A lot more jobs gone, curfews, what basically amounts to house arrest 23 hours a day. So on and so forth. That sort of stuff has to piss people off. Especially after we had a few weeks of starting to get back to normal.
Further to that, the second outbreak, as mentioned in an above post, was basically brought about by security guards who were meant to be monitoring quarantine hotels, but because the government cheaped out and hired some from Gumtree or something, a few of them apparently got their horizontal tango on with some people in quarantine, and then further spread it. So yeah, the leaderships copping some flack from at least that at the moment.
I also think more people are starting to see this as a blown massively out of proportion scare campaign too, and the reaction to it being completely unnecessary. We're talking a disease that does not even rate in the top 50 causes of death in Australia this year, but we're taking measures similar to if we had an invading force here or something. The media/government narrative and lies can't hold now they've taken these completely blown out of proportion measures. Surely...
But with all that said, I've seen stuff around where people are being vilified for not wearing masks, breaking curfew etc so there's still plenty of sheeple out there going along with everything the msm and our state dictator say. Which is sad.
Anyway, these new measures have only been in place for a few days out of at least 6 weeks. The further we get into that the more and more people will hopefully revolt against it.
cryptoadam
Banned
Nymphae
Banned
Councils can demolish contaminated buildings under powers to stop second coronavirus wave
Care homes, factories, offices and even private homes could be bulldozed as last resort if virus starts to run out of control
www.telegraph.co.uk
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I haven't worn a mask outside this entire time. I've gotten called out a few times, including this afternoon, all by people twitter users today would call "karens"
Good write up on lockdown mania, they mention a few things I've been harping on for months. How the justification for lockdown changed without our consent, how bureaucrats and the media declared non-Sweden Europe the victor way too soon and it's an easily contagious virus that will continue to spread, and how lockdowns will not and cannot eradicate it.
ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
At this point these lockdowns have absolutely zero basis in fact, logic, or science. It's just pure power.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Biweekly change in infections
We Australians tend to be bootlickers. From the majority I have spoken too, they are in favour of the lockdowns. Many even want more strict lockdowns (masks in doors, shutdown all industry and retail).
Police have setup hotlines to allow people to call and point to any "transgressions" regarding the lock down rules. Apparently it has been a success... Fucked up.
It is a bizarre situation to be in.
People like Cracklox and myself I think are in the vast minority :/
Councils can demolish contaminated buildings under powers to stop second coronavirus wave
Care homes, factories, offices and even private homes could be bulldozed as last resort if virus starts to run out of control
Burn the house down, but the spider gets away.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Welp. we're stuck (NC) on Phase 2 til Sept. 11th.
DeepBreath87
Banned
So what does that entail? I’ve got a trip to the Outer Banks this month.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
NC remains in Phase 2, bars and gyms will stay closed until September 11
When Gov. Roy Cooper makes an announcement Wednesday on the next steps toward completely reopening North Carolina, multiple sources tell WRAL News that they expect to see the status quo continue.
www.wral.com
DeepBreath87
Banned
Thanks. Seems like your case numbers have really fallen this week.NC remains in Phase 2, bars and gyms will stay closed until September 11
When Gov. Roy Cooper makes an announcement Wednesday on the next steps toward completely reopening North Carolina, multiple sources tell WRAL News that they expect to see the status quo continue.
DeepBreath87
Banned
Well at least America might be getting a taste of actual tyranny. This is what it looks like and it’s not Donald fucking Trump.
Stouffers
Banned
Novel bunyavirus re-emerges in China, kills seven | Taiwan News | Aug. 5, 2020 15:15
Not another pandemic by any means, but... Jesus Christ, China.
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llien
Member
An interesting graph mapping all UK deaths by age bracket.
85+ age group is different, I guess, because men tend not to live that long anyhow.
PS
I recall a female human being hissing about that, after an attempt to turn COVID in Frauen issue has crashed into "aren't 2/3rds of deaths men?". Oh, and she works in UN, advising it on gender issues.
llien
Member
So, guys, next time somebody tells you about Merkel handing things too well, consider this:
1) Friends of mine just returned from North France. Wanted to get tested (Cologne). Are supposed to spend half a day in a queue at a hospital, and pay 70 Euroes per person, as, you know, France is not listed as "high risk area".
2) I'm facing similar choice, being in South Tirol, I either have to drive through Bavaria where local government has free drive-in tests for anyone willing directly on highway, not giving a fuck, or waiting for hours with people who are quite likely to have C19 and paying for it.
Tell me how federal government trying to save money on tests IN THIS FUCKING SITUATION WHEN MILLIONS OF GERMANS ARE TRAVELING ACROSS THE WORLD (kids are on holiday) is a reasonable strategy.
1) Friends of mine just returned from North France. Wanted to get tested (Cologne). Are supposed to spend half a day in a queue at a hospital, and pay 70 Euroes per person, as, you know, France is not listed as "high risk area".
2) I'm facing similar choice, being in South Tirol, I either have to drive through Bavaria where local government has free drive-in tests for anyone willing directly on highway, not giving a fuck, or waiting for hours with people who are quite likely to have C19 and paying for it.
Tell me how federal government trying to save money on tests IN THIS FUCKING SITUATION WHEN MILLIONS OF GERMANS ARE TRAVELING ACROSS THE WORLD (kids are on holiday) is a reasonable strategy.
MisterFalcon
Member
This source is a survey in a Facebook group, not the most reliable thing ever.
Very true, should have qualified that statement. Mea culpla.
Collz69
Member
My wife is a hairdresser, they are seeing a similar trend, although not all of the clients have had C-19.
We think it may be the result of stress because of lockdowns and Covid anxiety.
Maybe all down players get it mild and go bold
I think it’s Covid, and they had it without knowing ... 50 % is without symptoms.
did they get tested so they know they didn’t have it?
diffusionx
Gold Member
Told ya.
This virus is coming for you, no matter what. Lockdowns don’t do shit except kick the can down the road.
Except hair loss is absolutely something that happens in times of extreme stress. People have lost their jobs, are stuck at home, can’t pay their bills, can’t live their normal lives, have pure fear pumped into their homes 24/7 through the media... yea it’s stressful.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Jesus man. So now you’re just blaming everything on covid, aren’t you. What happened to all that following the science?
You’re shedding extra hair? Covid. Never even had covid? Ahh, you have covid. It’s covid. Gotta be.
diffusionx
Gold Member
People can report literally any symptom for any drug or disease and the government will put it in a database. Then other people will come later and look into it, maybe. COVID has infected 200 million people realistically, what are the odds it hit a few people just as they started showing signs of alopecia/MPB? The odds are 100%.
DeepBreath87
Banned
Its just mass hysteria at this point.
"Oh you've got a rash three months after covid? Its covid."
"Oh you noticed a few extra hairs on the bathroom floor? Covid.
"Constipated? Covid strikes again."
"Allergies acting up? Covid works in mysterious ways."
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I just did a horrendous liquid shit - it stank out the whole house. Do you think it's covid?
And you blame nothing on Covid
you are in one big denial that there is a pandemic.you are probably one that goes protesting , bars and spreading it everywhere...
because some basic guidelines takes my freedom away.
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Except lock down kept the numbers down ... you see what happens if you don’t.
dude I had stress most people won’t have in their entire life , never lost a hair .
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diffusionx
Gold Member
It keeps the numbers down... temporarily, until you open again. That’s the problem. It doesn’t eradicate it. So the choice is to let the virus do what it does and manage best you can as it burns through a population or have this terrible and crushing lockdown-open-lockdown cycle into perpetuity.
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