The Antitype
Banned
If I trick the Krogan and sabotage the cure, do I still get the full support of the Krogans along with the Salarians?
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
- Thread starter XANDER CAGE
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LumpOfCole
Member
The Reapers being evil machines bent on ensuring their technological and universal superiority by harvesting advanced civilizations that are closer to becoming threats to them suits the narrative of the trilogy just fine.
I always found the Reapers' and Collectors' plotlines to be a simple and necessary thread to give the player an overarching evil to fight and an excuse to go forge alliances and camaraderie, as well as to bring the damn galaxy together (or at least take significant sides in political issues throughout the galaxy).
In other words, I always saw the less interesting Reaper shit as an excuse to tell the infinitely more interesting and complex stories of the rest of the galaxy.
WiiredShawn
Member
For the people laughing at the hallucination/indoctrination theory, at least try to combat why the evidence provided does not make sense. Saying Bioware's writers are too dumb to imagine such a thing is not an argument. For one thing, it's not really a complicated idea. They used the idea of indoctrination, an idea they have been using from the beginning, in combination with one of the oldest narrative tropes: the red herring. The presence of Harbinger and the child-like form of the Catalyst fit perfectly into that idea.
The real problem with the theory is that the writers weren't good enough to make it apparent. I'm not claiming they are clever buggers who trumped us all. I'm saying that they have admitted to wanting something more intellectual and less physical for a final confrontation, and that this works into that scheme. Whether it was executed well is another point entirely.
Notice that this theory also doesn't say anything about the origins or motivations of the Reapers. It actually preserves them as some all-powerful, evil force. In some ways, that is a failure of the writing, mainly because of the lack of epilogue.
The real problem with the theory is that the writers weren't good enough to make it apparent. I'm not claiming they are clever buggers who trumped us all. I'm saying that they have admitted to wanting something more intellectual and less physical for a final confrontation, and that this works into that scheme. Whether it was executed well is another point entirely.
Notice that this theory also doesn't say anything about the origins or motivations of the Reapers. It actually preserves them as some all-powerful, evil force. In some ways, that is a failure of the writing, mainly because of the lack of epilogue.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Even if the producers come out and say "good on you clever clogs! You figured it out! The ending was a hallucination and Shepard was indoctrinated!" that won't change the fact that the ending was poorly written and, worst of all, pretty much negates player agency and throws 90% of their choices out the window in exchange for one big grandaddy choice that really doesn't change much.
To be honest, we're arguing over what shit smells like.
I provided you with a list of "why?" questions that perfectly illustrate why the theory doesn't make sense to me. If it adds nothing to the story, and if the audience has to question why it was there, it shouldn't be there. That's writing 101.
EDIT - oh, and somebody made the very good point about the Citadel arms closing a page or so back.
To be honest, we're arguing over what shit smells like.
I provided you with a list of "why?" questions that perfectly illustrate why the theory doesn't make sense to me. If it adds nothing to the story, and if the audience has to question why it was there, it shouldn't be there. That's writing 101.
EDIT - oh, and somebody made the very good point about the Citadel arms closing a page or so back.
djplaeskool
Member
No, it's not "reasonable" at all. Is it possible? Yes. But that doesn't mean it's plausible in the least, not when Bioware has shown over the course of a decade that it is utterly incapable of writing something so subtle.
There's never been much room for interpretation in any of the Bioware's games... besides the moments where I theorize why they fucked up so bad.
Yup.
You don't need a complex villain to tell the conflict between the Geth and Quarians. The narrative would certainly be served by an interesting, thematic villain that ties it all together but since BioWare wasn't really capable of pulling that off, focusing on the smaller moments would have been more important. There were lots of stories that could be told with the conflict from the Batarians or even exploring the Asari, Turians and Salarians further. The Genophage and Krogan is also a conflict rich in ideas and philosophies completely unrelated to the Reapers.
I think the end is fine. The one thing I would have changed would be the child's appearance. I'm not sure why the V.I. decided to depict the kid. In any case, the point was to end the Reapers, and you were given three choices to do so.
If you're discontent with them, there's nothing you can do about it. I picked synthesis because it made sense to me. I'm a little sad that Shepard dies, but at the same time s/he is living on in a way.
The choices may not have been the best presented. I don't know why the destruction of all synthetic life has to be happen in one option, but they can be recreated.
If you're discontent with them, there's nothing you can do about it. I picked synthesis because it made sense to me. I'm a little sad that Shepard dies, but at the same time s/he is living on in a way.
The choices may not have been the best presented. I don't know why the destruction of all synthetic life has to be happen in one option, but they can be recreated.
Blue Ninja
Member
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Like I said earlier, last night I stayed up until nearly 6 in the morning. I played the game for about eight hours straight, and was able to finish it right before completely losing the energy to stay awake ;p
I freaking loved it. I went into the game mildly excited, but not as a massive fan of the series. I've played the other two titles, and liked them quite a bit. And I expected to have a similar reaction to the third entry. But nope, I was completely blown away. Mass Effect 3 might just be one of my favorite games of all time ... and that's after NOT importing a character (due to import problems), and skipping the sidequests (b/c I wanted to see the end). I can't freaking wait to start up with ME1 in the next week, and play through the trilogy in one big block.
As for the end, I honestly didn't mind it at all. I do agree that I think it would have been better had the game ended immediately following the encounter with the Illusive Man. The child seems to be a last-minute addition, even though it shouldn't be. I like the idea of a new character in 2, that becomes the ultimate encounter at the end of the trilogy. Nevertheless, the ending was satisfying; and about what I expected.
But, honestly, this game is all about the journey. Meeting up with old squadmates, saving lives, your friends dying, the distant planets, the last-second ideas, and whatnot.
And as an extension of that, I have to say, the sense of urgency in this game is just completely unrivaled.
+ The environments. Not only did they look incredible, have amazing art direction, and have oodles of uniqueness; but they were fun. They tickled that spot that few games do, in that you were running through the backalleys of the Citadel, the elevator shaft, the underground elements of places you've been before. Stuff like the IM's headquarters getting ripped apart just seemed so awesome.
+Sense of urgency. Seriously, this game nails it. Everywhere you go, planets are on the brink of extinction. Races are dying. Buildings are falling. It really FEELS like a galaxy at war. I'd argue no game has done half a good of job as getting that right.
+ Sound. Something I didn't expect. But the soundtrack and sound effects are on a whole other level in this game. It just absolutely meshes perfectly and even greatly enhances the atmposhpere.
....
....
....... You know what? I honestly don't feel like I should list what I liked; because I'll probably touch on just about everything. It just got to me in a way that few games, do. This is a game that felt perfect catered to me.
Also, the art direction and environments in this game are fucking gorgeous. DAT SCALE.
I freaking loved it. I went into the game mildly excited, but not as a massive fan of the series. I've played the other two titles, and liked them quite a bit. And I expected to have a similar reaction to the third entry. But nope, I was completely blown away. Mass Effect 3 might just be one of my favorite games of all time ... and that's after NOT importing a character (due to import problems), and skipping the sidequests (b/c I wanted to see the end). I can't freaking wait to start up with ME1 in the next week, and play through the trilogy in one big block.
As for the end, I honestly didn't mind it at all. I do agree that I think it would have been better had the game ended immediately following the encounter with the Illusive Man. The child seems to be a last-minute addition, even though it shouldn't be. I like the idea of a new character in 2, that becomes the ultimate encounter at the end of the trilogy. Nevertheless, the ending was satisfying; and about what I expected.
But, honestly, this game is all about the journey. Meeting up with old squadmates, saving lives, your friends dying, the distant planets, the last-second ideas, and whatnot.
And as an extension of that, I have to say, the sense of urgency in this game is just completely unrivaled.
+ The environments. Not only did they look incredible, have amazing art direction, and have oodles of uniqueness; but they were fun. They tickled that spot that few games do, in that you were running through the backalleys of the Citadel, the elevator shaft, the underground elements of places you've been before. Stuff like the IM's headquarters getting ripped apart just seemed so awesome.
+Sense of urgency. Seriously, this game nails it. Everywhere you go, planets are on the brink of extinction. Races are dying. Buildings are falling. It really FEELS like a galaxy at war. I'd argue no game has done half a good of job as getting that right.
+ Sound. Something I didn't expect. But the soundtrack and sound effects are on a whole other level in this game. It just absolutely meshes perfectly and even greatly enhances the atmposhpere.
....
....
....... You know what? I honestly don't feel like I should list what I liked; because I'll probably touch on just about everything. It just got to me in a way that few games, do. This is a game that felt perfect catered to me.
Also, the art direction and environments in this game are fucking gorgeous. DAT SCALE.
:|
http://imgur.com/8gbn0
Nice bump mapping. It really makes me wonder if someone just didn't care at the end.
http://imgur.com/8gbn0
Nice bump mapping. It really makes me wonder if someone just didn't care at the end.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I never noticed that. That's... disturbing. :lol
Oh they didn't care long before that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oCZFx5Pt-Ng
Red Blaster
Member
You expected an ending involving themes never central to Mass Effect
CAW
Member
Even funnier is the thought of Shepard surviving the citadel explosion, floating in space, being pulled into earth's atmosphere then falling to the ground and surviving. If he can pull that off then what was the point of the two year long lazarus project? Not to mention how fragile is state was before the explosion.
When I look at things like that, the hallucination theory makes more sense. Like he survived an explosion on earth, and that it was all a hallucination. He's been having vivid dreams the entire game.
I mean it's not like people are reaching for just anything, it's things like that that are so absurd that make the theories seem like the better answer.
I do agree with you about giving Bioware too much credit for something like that, but who knows.
HarryHengst
Member
:lol. Well they managed to hide it pretty well during the game, because i never noticed it.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I'm not trying to defend it in a sense that the ideas presented here aren't better. It's far from perfect. But it was satisfying, at least to me.
And honest to goodness, yeah, it's about what I expected, even though the themes weren't central to ME. I figured what it would come down to, is that there would be some driving motivation behind the Reapers destroying all organic life, and that we would find out what that motivation was toward the end of the trilogy. Factor in all the stuff in regards to the Geth/Quarians, the reapers, AI, VI, etc, and I would have wagered that it would have at least touched on organic/synthetics.
No, I didn't predict the ending; not by a long shot. But I also don't feel it's as nearly as far from left field as people are suggesting.
The Librarian
Banned
The space battles in the end were fucking amazing, though. My mouth was open the entire time.
The purpose of Reapers is a gaping paradox.
If their purpose is to prevent advanced organics from creating advanced synthetics that wipe out organics then the origin of Reapers has two possibilities:
1. Advanced organics were nearly wiped out by advanced synthetics, and in order to prevent synthetics from doing this again, they create the Reapers. But then Reapers would kill the creating species. Origin invalidated.
2. Sames as #1, but advanced synthetics did wipe out their creators but had a change of heart. Invalidated.
Or an absurd explanation
#2 but instead of a change of heart, a virus. Which is absurd.
If their purpose is to prevent advanced organics from creating advanced synthetics that wipe out organics then the origin of Reapers has two possibilities:
1. Advanced organics were nearly wiped out by advanced synthetics, and in order to prevent synthetics from doing this again, they create the Reapers. But then Reapers would kill the creating species. Origin invalidated.
2. Sames as #1, but advanced synthetics did wipe out their creators but had a change of heart. Invalidated.
Or an absurd explanation
#2 but instead of a change of heart, a virus. Which is absurd.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Agreed, those final few space battles were absolutely epic in scale. Though, 18fps and 30fps randomly mixed together during rather low-quality FMV is pretty disappointing. Would have been 100x better if it was crisp 1080p 24fps CG.
Ros8105
Member
If there's one thing BW is not good at, it's FMV.
Does not compute. Explode.
If synthetics framed organics as the source of disorder in the universe, and wished to maintain order, their only option became the destruction of the destroyers. They managed to do this for millions of years, so it worked for them.
Blue Ninja
Member
The themes honestly should've been alluded to far more during the trilogy for the ending to really make sense. I've replayed the end three times now, and while I'm starting to accept it, I still don't understand it. The story of Mass Effect was no great meta-story with no way to tie everything up. It could've ended perfectly 'normal' without shoving the singularity in your face.
I know I would've written it very differently. Get onto the Citadel, find the Illusive Man and have a chat with him, only to have Harbinger assume direct control of him like Sovereign did with Saren. Kill him, get the Crucible plugged in. You learn that firing it will destroy the relays and potentially cripple galactic society, but you fire it anyway. Heck, you could tie some decisions to it, like whether you'd use Earth or the Relays to power the money shot.
It wouldn't allow for so many different endings, but in the end, it's the end of the trilogy. The ending would be determined by everything you've done up until that point. Whether or not your Shep survives, who he survives with and what he does afterwards would've been a lot nicer as variables, imo.
BioWare, give me money. I write this shit for practically nothing.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
the best thing to come out of the ending
Terra Firma
Banned
Is the Catalyst or whoever made the Reapers THAT thick?
I mean, if you think that organics creating synthetics that end up killing the organics is a bad idea, then why don't you make the Reapers, I don't know, KILL ALL OTHER SYNTHETICS EVERY 50,000 YEARS???
Seriously!
What kind of idiotic solution is this that organics have to die if they become too advanced? If anything, the Reapers could be a garbage-collecting sort of thing that destroy the synthetics when they arrive and leave the organics in tact? The organics all learn a valuable lesson of not creating advanced synthetics and if they do it again, the Reapers could return and then repeat this cycle again?
Stupid child construct.
I want my Shepard back. :*(
I mean, if you think that organics creating synthetics that end up killing the organics is a bad idea, then why don't you make the Reapers, I don't know, KILL ALL OTHER SYNTHETICS EVERY 50,000 YEARS???
Seriously!
What kind of idiotic solution is this that organics have to die if they become too advanced? If anything, the Reapers could be a garbage-collecting sort of thing that destroy the synthetics when they arrive and leave the organics in tact? The organics all learn a valuable lesson of not creating advanced synthetics and if they do it again, the Reapers could return and then repeat this cycle again?
Stupid child construct.
I want my Shepard back. :*(
So awesome.
It's too bad the ending discussion is devouring any other discussion (I think it was really great in many parts). I guess it can't be helped.
I don't think the end is meta at all. You encounter the Reaper's V.I., and then make it realize that it was actually failing at what it attempted to do. Why it didn't realize this sooner? Who knows.
dragonelite
Member
It seems they have the same philosophy for many of their games. The endings of DAII are all the same too.
You side with the templars? Surprise! Orsino was an evil blood mage all along and you have to kill him. Surprise! Meredith is insane because of the idol and attack you anyway. Across all Ferelden the mages are angry and overthrow the templars. The mage circles are destroyed, the chantry is in ruin.
You side with the Mages? Surprise! Orsino was an evil blood mage all along and you have to kill him. Meredith is angry that you are siding with the mages and attack you but she's still insane because of the idol. Across all Ferelden the mages are angry and overthrow the templars. The mage circles are destroyed, the chantry is in ruin.
You side with the templars? Surprise! Orsino was an evil blood mage all along and you have to kill him. Surprise! Meredith is insane because of the idol and attack you anyway. Across all Ferelden the mages are angry and overthrow the templars. The mage circles are destroyed, the chantry is in ruin.
You side with the Mages? Surprise! Orsino was an evil blood mage all along and you have to kill him. Meredith is angry that you are siding with the mages and attack you but she's still insane because of the idol. Across all Ferelden the mages are angry and overthrow the templars. The mage circles are destroyed, the chantry is in ruin.
doubleplusgood
Member
Pretty awesome game, until the ending. I would have been okay with the reapers being some enigmatic menace, who's motivation could never be completely figured out. Do the mass relays explode in all the endings by the way? I would think any game set after these events would be slightly tricky with the lack of relays?
So, BSN is in complete meltdown now? Going to be interesting to see the comment Bioware makes :V.
So, BSN is in complete meltdown now? Going to be interesting to see the comment Bioware makes :V.
I don't think they will say anything.
They can't spin it, they can't accept it and they can't say "sorry". So yeah, just sweep it under the rug.
djplaeskool
Member
HarryHengst
Member
Its hilarious on the Bioware forums. The subforum for talk about the story is 95% threads about the ending. :lol
Nice pics Skel1ingt0n.
I agree. Then again, that's the reason why it's so important to stick the landing.
I agree. Then again, that's the reason why it's so important to stick the landing.
Yeah relays gone in all endings. Control/Synthesis are the 2 endings where rebuilding them will be the easiest as the Reapers continue on living.
Well, as soon as they announce Mass Effect 4: Shepard It's God Time, all of us will forget.
Is it wise to spoil DAII?
I wouldn't make the parallel with this game, since DAII was just awful. I felt physically unsteady -- ill -- when I encountered that ending. It was just wrong.
Terra Firma
Banned
Even though I like DA:O more than Mass Effect, I wasn't that invested in the main character. I loved the party members and was more invested in them.
But with Shepard, being fully voiced, actually having Paragon/Renegade options - basically having a personality unlike the DA:O characters - made me more involved with her.
Also, DA2 wasn't a continuation of your previous character (the world was changed by the events of DA:O slightly, but that was it). With Mass Effect, I was with my Shepard since ME1 and knew her personality, knew the kind of person she had become. With DA:O, your original character is gone after DA:Awakening and DLC.
And DA2 was a piss poor game with forced romances.
Terra Firma
Banned
Yeah, but with the Control/Synthesis ending, Shepard never survives, whereas with the Destroy option, if you have a high enough war readiness rating, Shepard does (I think, from the Youtube videos...don't have such a high readiness rating yet and I don't feel like playing the game anymore...).
The ending didn't make sense. Simple questions make it break apart:
-If the Reaper's were so concerned that synthetics would wipe out organics, but they had the technology to wipe out all synthetics, why on Earth would they kill the organics? They could just kill the synthetics! The organics were the ones they wanted to protect!
-Speaking of which, protecting organics by wiping out all organics... what? I get that they leave the non-advanced life forms alone, but come on. I'm sure there would be a much better solution (see above...) that does not involve the murder of trillions of life forms.
-Synthetics and organics can be merged? What? How? Space magic? Space magic. This one isn't even somewhat plausible!
-Why does the reaper god kid person change his tune just because Shepard reaches him? So what? Kid is like 'We kill organics to protect organics,' Shepard is all like 'Yo bro thats dumb,' so the kid goes 'Yah ok here you can pick from 3 poorly thought out options now cause as smart as I'm supposed to be, I'm dumb as fuck.'
As for the Mass Relays... well... it was a ballsy move. Ballsy as fuck, with extreme consequences for the Mass Effect Universe - basically sends them back to the dark ages for what i can only imagine is thousands of years. No one knew how the Relays worked. To fix them would be hard. To recreate them would take lifetimes. This is the only part of the ending I don't hate just cause it poses some interesting questions.
I'll just ignore the fact that supposedly when a relay gets destroyed it wipes out an entire solar system (Which apparently Bioware forgot...)
Correct, but lets be honest, the Krogan stuck on Earth with no ladies to sex up is going to cause a war and fast.
I'd rather pick the ending that gets them off the planet faster.Okay, I completed the game and chose the "destroy" option with the added scene of Shepard breathing briefly at the end. How exactly is Shepard alive? It was mentioned in the final dialogue that Shepard was part synthetic himself (presumably due to Lazarus) and the explosion was supposedly meant to have killed all synthetic life.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
http://m.kotaku.com/5892335/so-theres-a-fan-campaign-to-change-the-ending-of-mass-effect-3
Go to hell, kotaku
---
I would of been fine if my choices fucking mattered!
Go to hell, kotaku
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I would of been fine if my choices fucking mattered!
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Space Magic.
Red Blaster
Member
BioWare: I dunno
So are people thinking that Shepard was hallucinating since he was hit by the Reaper laser? I can see Bioware doing this, trying to look clever but wouldn't that mean that everyone is in EXACTLY the same situation as before? Also what the hell was up with making Harbinger so unimportant in ME3? He was such a huge part of 2 and he doesn't say a single thing in three. They could have replaced that stupid kid holo with Harbinger. That would have given the scene a lot more impact.
Inferno313
Banned
He's part synthetic, maybe his synthetic organs stopped working but enough of him is organic for him to be breathing at the very least.
WrenchNinja
Member
So my ems is 7000.
I just played a tonne of multi to get my galactic readyness at 100%.
So now my tms is at 7000 also instead of 3500.
I restart the last mission and picked destroy.
I didnt get Shepard lives ending or the Master and Commander achievement.
WHY
I just played a tonne of multi to get my galactic readyness at 100%.
So now my tms is at 7000 also instead of 3500.
I restart the last mission and picked destroy.
I didnt get Shepard lives ending or the Master and Commander achievement.
WHY
War Assets.
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