Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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ME3's ending is like hearing malapropisms from some idiot who's trying to sound intelligent: sometimes it's best to not overreach. ME2 made it obvious that the team at BioWare had serious trouble keeping a by-the-numbers sci-fi story on track, so it boggles the mind that they thought a) this sort of shift was a good fit for the series and b) they could execute on the idea.

I picture two scenarios for how this happened, and I don't know which is worse:

1. Everyone with input at BioWare was too afraid to call out this nonsense because they were afraid they just didn't get it and/or would be perceived as not getting it.

or

2. Everyone with input at BioWare is as dumb as the people who conceived this drivel.

In either case, this is the "fool me once" moment. I won't be back for more from the people responsible for it.
 
Najaf said:
I have just experienced the abomination that was the Mass Effect 3 ending. I will now write a better one in less than 20 minutes.

Everything plays the same up til you are running toward the beam. The camera pans back and you see the entirety of your team mixed with various species' best forces storming the beam. Depending on your galactic readiness, various teammates fall dead and the rest are merely falling behind.

Anderson, also in the chase, announces that the beam is beginning to retract. "They know we are close!"

You, Shepard are the only one to make it into the thinning beam of light.

Aboard the Citadel, you meet the Illusive Man at the control panel. You then debate with him. He explains that the two of you can rule the Galaxy, as the heads of humanity, by controlling the Reapers. "The power is at our fingertips Shepard!" He goes on to explain that the Crucible/Citadel combo allows you to reprogram the Reapers permanently but it also is able to remotely disable all reaper tech, the Mass Relays included. "We will loose everything!" The Illusive man claims.

You then can paragon/renegade him into stepping away from the control panel. Paragon he shoots himself in shame. Renegade you shoot him clean. The third option on the right of the decision wheel allows you to agree with him.

You then decide the fate of the galaxy. Take control of the reapers and enforce your will, or you destroy them.

If you choose the Renegade option of controlling them, a cut scene unfolds showing a signal bounce across all Mass Relays, and showing Reapers across the Galaxy shutting down and becoming lifeless, then slowly awakening and ascending to space to the cheers of civilizations everywhere.

If you choose to destroy them, the same cuteness plays except they don't ascend to space and lay there lifeless. The Mass Relays also go dim after the signal is broadcast. The same cheers are seen across the Galaxy.

Screen fades...

Now aboard the Citadel, the repairs are under way with various species seen helping eachother out. You sit in the human embassy next to Anderson and James Vega enters the room. "They are ready for us, Commander."

Anderson looks at you "Better not be late to your own award ceremony."

You enter the Citadel Tower where cheers are loud from the many species present. You are presented with some award by the council, now with Anderson reassuming his post. They announce that due to the allegiance you command among the races, you have been given the authority to pick and appoint one additional counsel race/representative.

You make your decision.

After the counsel dismisses, you are reminded to attend the celebration in the presidium commons.

You then take control of Shepard at the party and make your way around the celebration speaking to all your surviving squad and other people of importance. Through these conversations your actions are referenced, such as if you cured the genophage or not, if the Geth were spared etc. Depending on those decisions, it is revealed that the Krogan are being brought to a new planet, much resembling their homeworld before the nuclear wars. The Geth are still helping the Quarians settle their homeworld. EDI informs you that work is already underway by the best engineers in the galaxy to restore the Mass Relays, and while they are still down, communication between the words remains intact. The Citadel remains the center for galactic politics and Earth is now populated by a large number of all the species who took part in the united fight, seeing as they are for the foreseeable future stranded on Earth and the Citadel.

You have touching conversations with all your teammates in attendance and are also allowed to reveal your future to them. You are able to decide to return to Earth, or take up a political position of influence on the Citadel. You are able to invite your love interest to accompany you wherever this decision takes you.

You then make your way to the exit of the Commons and the camera takes control. It pans across showing Joker dancing with EDI, Tali drinking through her emergency delivery system (straw), and the rest of your squad doing their appropriately touching thing.

Credits roll and a post credit scene is of you with your love interest (if they survived) on Earth or at home on the Citadel. Witty banter ensues.

DLC #1:
You are back on the Normandy six weeks later. Joker informs you that he hopes your time on Earth/Citadel was relaxing as the Mass Relays are up and running and you are needed. Admiral Hacket consults you from the vidcom informing you of the state of the Galaxy. A rogue Krogan general is plotting an attack against whoever and there are other problems facing the races. Yada yada yada...
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Would be a bit hokey, maybe shep dies as well if you don't have a super high EMS, but it's better than LOL SPECULATION AND MASS RELAYS GONE UNIVERSE FUCKED LULZ ending.
 
It would've been badass to see something like Liara 900 years old and talking about her days with Shepard on her deathbed. Maybe they should've done that and replaced that random kid and his dad.
 
Rebel Leader said:
I am blocked.. what is going on?
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Some guy made a thread kind of explaining the PR process and damage control. It has select quotes from another guy who claims to have worked PR and who points out what is likely going on behind the scenes at EA/BW, with some accurate predictions of what they were going to say next and why, for example Hudson's announcement.

The thread was made yesterday it seems and today is at page 90 already. I just skimmed through it so I don't know what was the response, but there are also some crazy posts out there, like some guy basically saying the resistance movement is like at war, and fans are one military and EA another... idk, I hate that site.

Edit: LOL, only now I looked at this thread's OP and I see someone already did the Neon Genesis Evangelion type ending. The connection is so obvious that it is absolutely mind boggling Bioware didn't even seem to notice they were doing the exact same thing and could expect the same reaction.
 
This thread is moving so fast. I step away for about 3 hours and I have no idea what's going on.

But as more and more people finish the game I think we're bound to see more people come in here and complain.
 
I don't like FemShep's voice acting, even though I like the voice actress because of her previous works (specifically Bastila Shan). She doesn't really have a neutral tone. She comes off either bored or emotional. ManShep comes off rather neutral. FemShep is better during emotional scenes but in regular conversations...not so much.
 
inky said:
Some guy made a thread kind of explaining the PR process and damage control. It has select quotes from another guy who claims to have worked PR and who points out what is likely going on behind the scenes at EA/BW, with some accurate predictions of what they were going to say next and why, for example Hudson's announcement.

The thread was made yesterday it seems and today is at page 90 already. I just skimmed through it so I don't know what was the response, but there are also some crazy posts out there, like some guy basically saying the resistant movement is like at war, and fans are one military and EA another... idk, I hate that site.
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Okay thanks.
War? I hated the ending but that just seems too...dumb
 
Rebel Leader said:
What is he saying?
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So many things. You didn't read the whole post at BSN, did you? I don't blame you, it's way too much information. In any case, this is becoming my favorite internet meltdown, so much melodrama over this whole mess. It's amazing.
I can post the whole thing here, if people want to, but it's so much stuff.
 
Hasphat'sAnts said:
This thread is moving so fast. I step away for about 3 hours and I have no idea what's going on.

But as more and more people finish the game I think we're bound to see more people come in here and complain.
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I finished it half hour ago. I have nothing to complain other some minor plot holes and unlogical stuff. Was happy with how all ended.
 
Uriah said:
Does Steve only live if you romance him? Because he died on my ending and I had a pretty high readiness rating.
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You have to talk to him at all available opportunities and help him get over the loss of his husband, I believe. Make him "want to live", otherwise, you lose him when he gets shot down.

Another part of the theme of the story that gets disregarded in the end choices.
 
Jack has a beautiful face.

Miranda looks so much better on the vid calls than when she appears in person. Which tells me her problem is polygonal nature of computer model does mesh well with a live scanning. All the human imperfections that you can't see become noticeable in the computer model, and the vid calls wipe out some of those details and her face looks like good again.
 
That would have been better, but a little hokey. I don't even want long ranging information, I would really just like the next week kind of closure.

Besides, how do Asari actually die? Samara is like 1000 and looks fine. Do they go from fine to dead? Do they age from 40 to 90 in one year? It is a mystery.
 
Shepard said:
All those people complaining about the end sutprises me. Even with some plot holes, It wasn't anywhere as bad as you are making it.
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People can complain about anything. Why are you complaining about people who complain? Isn't that stupefying in itself?
 
SerArthurDayne said:
That would have been better, but a little hokey. I don't even want long ranging information, I would really just like the next week kind of closure.

Besides, how do Asari actually die? Samara is like 1000 and looks fine. Do they go from fine to dead? Do they age from 40 to 90 in one year? It is a mystery.
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Eventually, those tentacles on their heads will begin to wrap around their heads. They will push themselves into every orifice and hole and pulsate violently and suffocate the asari.
 
Last Hearth said:
Jack has a beautiful face.
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True dat. I also liked Samara's in a weird MILFish way.

Miranda looks so much better on the vid calls than when she appears in person. Which tells me her problem is polygonal nature of computer model does mesh well with a live scanning. All the human imperfections that you can't see become noticeable in the computer model, and the vid calls wipe out some of those details and her face looks like good again.
Click to expand...

Miranda's problem seems to be her ugly ass nose. I don't know what kind of scanning they used but they sure fucked that one up. Default female Shepard is probably the ugliest thing they could've done, which is absolutely baffling seeing how most of the female faces (like random Asari NPCs) are very well done.
 
Shepard said:
All those people complaining about the end sutprises me. Even with some plot holes, It wasn't anywhere as bad as you are making it.
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It's not about plot resolution for me. It's that the ending disregards or concludes in an unsatisfying way themes the series has been building for 3 games. The themes of tolerance, individuality, sentience, independence, synthetic vs. organic, universality of experience, importance of choice and consequence-- all of them-- are just outright discarded. You get three non-sequitur endings that completely disregard everything you did up to that point in the series. And that's why I'm mad.

Yes, there are lore errors and plot holes. And yes, the endings are not sufficiently baked. But damn, they have absolutely nothing in common with the actual SERIES.

I don't care that the endings were sad. I expected it; I complained about how easy it was to survive the "suicide" mission with no casualties. I don't care that the endings have a bizarre end scene and offer no closure for the events we see in the endings. I am fine with cliff hangers. I do care that these were the endings for entirely different games.

So Bioware can just eat a dick.
 
Metroidvania said:
You have to talk to him at all available opportunities and help him get over the loss of his husband, I believe. Make him "want to live", otherwise, you lose him when he gets shot down.
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I hit X to skip all the dialog when he mentioned his 'husband.'

Jake Shepard runs his ship on the 'don't ask don't tell' policy.

I assumed he was down in the shuttle bay 'hanging out' with Jaime Vega, anyway.
 
inky said:
True dat. I also liked Samara's in a weird MILFish way.



Miranda's problem seems to be her ugly ass nose. I don't know what kind of scanning they used but they sure fucked that one up. Default female Shepard is probably the ugliest thing they could've done, which is absolutely baffling seeing how most of the female faces (like random Asari NPCs) are very well done.
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I love the Asari councilor face. I have since ME1, I would like to made a female Shephard that looked like her.
 
The donation thing is up to 60k now. I wonder if this whole shitstorm will be this year's biggest gaming news story (i.e. Gamasutra's Top Controversies 2012).
 
Y2Kev said:
It's not about plot resolution for me. It's that the ending disregards or concludes in an unsatisfying way themes the series has been building for 3 games. The themes of tolerance, individuality, sentience, independence, synthetic vs. organic, universality of experience, importance of choice and consequence-- all of them-- are just outright discarded. You get three non-sequitur endings that completely disregard everything you did up to that point in the series. And that's why I'm mad.

Yes, there are lore errors and plot holes. And yes, the endings are not sufficiently baked. But damn, they have absolutely nothing in common with the actual SERIES.

I don't care that the endings were sad. I expected it; I complained about how easy it was to survive the "suicide" mission with no casualties. I don't care that the endings have a bizarre end scene and offer no closure for the events we see in the endings. I am fine with cliff hangers. I do care that these were the endings for entirely different games.

So Bioware can just eat a dick.
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I read someone trying to defend the series and the ending as a "powerful message of free will vs. fatalism" because the space wizard lets you choose three options for him.
 
inky said:
Miranda's problem seems to be her ugly ass nose. I don't know what kind of scanning they used but they sure fucked that one up. Default female Shepard is probably the ugliest thing they could've done, which is absolutely baffling seeing how most of the female faces (like random Asari NPCs) are very well done.
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Problem with Miranda's face in the game is they overdid Yvonne Strahovski's otherwise sexeh underbite. Miranda looks downright freakish at times. Poor gal.
 
cameron said:
It would be nice if Mac Walters and Co. released audio commentary that walked through the entire ending sequence. Just to paint a picture of what they wanted players to see or "speculate" about during each key moment.
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Looking at those pictures from the 'final hours' and the art book, I think you'ld be very dissapointed by what they would have to say. Also, it's usually just making up stuff anyway. It was cool when Starbreeze did, sorta worked in the Half-Life episodes, but anywhere it's just.. not really something you would look for, I guess.

That said, the Babylon 5 (tv show) commentaries are pretty awesome. "that doesn't just look like a toiletseat". :D


SPECULATION TIME:

Btw, from the "I hate developers" topic I have gotten the idea that preparing marketing assets is also a lengthy and troublesome process, so there are a few things worth considering:

(from the final hours:)
about 12 months ago, the ending wasn't fixed yet, but there was a delay and then the 'CAT' mission (the prothean) was cut and moved to DLC. The 'CAT' is known from the leak to be 'catalyst', which the prothean then was for some reason. (unknown why or how)

from the art book and the final hours, we know that TIM used to be a bossfight, but was moved to be less 'videogamey' (their words) and not have him suddenly change into something completely different. This does make sense, but it gave us the weird TIM confrontation.

If we assume an ordinary publishing routine for the various marketing assets, like the art book and (unfortunately) the last novel Deception, then the process would have started at least six or nine months ago, but more likely even further back, about the same time they changed the story sequence. Whether this changed Deception is hard to say, but I expect it did.
(since both CAT and TIM were changed by then, meaning that the story would have been very different between the pre-delay and post-delay fase. kai Leng probably got a bigger role as well, as every other novel character appears and dissapears within one level, yet Kai Leng does not)


Keeping those timed events in mind, it's not entirely unthinkable that the current ending was a rather hasty 'crunch time' solution to a lack of time. The fact that the Prothean was also moved from being 'post release DLC' to 'day one DLC' also supports the idea that the publisher was getting impatient / moving up the timescale.

Probably just stating the obvious speculations here, but just thought it might make thing a bit more understandable from our perspective. Until an actual post-mortem shows up, that is.
 
Shepard said:
All those people complaining about the end sutprises me. Even with some plot holes, It wasn't anywhere as bad as you are making it.
Click to expand...

The ending manages to fuck over everything established beforehand in the span of 10 minutes in an extremely low quality way. Walters is a hack writer and wouldn't pass a high school grade level literary class.
 
Shepard said:
All those people complaining about the end sutprises me. Even with some plot holes, It wasn't anywhere as bad as you are making it.
Click to expand...
Before I finished the game, some of them popped into the |OT| to warn us. I believed them that it was bad, but perhaps in a way that was either not that bad or in a way that I thought was cool (since I am one of the few who actually thought the Human Reaper Baby was kinda cool for various reasons).

I thought maybe you end up fighting an Illusive Man Reaper (which was almost the ending, ha!), which would have been pretty lame, but not on the level everyone kept implying.

The end was far worse than I imagined. They were right. I think the reasons have been repeated many times in this thread which can be briefly summarized:

1. No previous choices matter
2. Deux Ex Machina
3. Space Magic
4. No closure
5. My sweet
 
After putting some more time in with ME1 I think I'm going to modify my ranking of the series. I had ME3=ME1 >>>>>> (x10 more >) ME2 but ME1 gives the illusion of choice and exploration so much better. Granted all the games pretty much just give illusions on those things, but for some reason 1 gets me invested more. You have to choose pretty much every one of Shepard's lines, and it gets me involved more than ME3's auto dialogue even though there's a LOT of lines where Shepard will say the exact same thing for each of the 3 choices. And I simply like the exploration more because you have to actually work at it a bit. There's no % tracker over each system, you have to zoom in to each planet to find survey options or landing options.

So yeah I'm changing my ranking back to ME1 > ME3. I still really enjoyed ME3 though.
 
I just visited Liara's quarters on the Normandy for the first time and she explained all of the Shadow Broker stuff to Shepard like he wasn't there. This is despite me importing a save with LotSB completed.

Did something go wrong with the import? Everything else seems to have carried across.
 
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