Samara's is great but it reinforces the fact that somehow everyone in the galaxy knows about this one lesbian porn video between a human and an asari. Joker mentions it, the dead girl's diary mentions it, Samara's daughter mentions it. Apparently xenophilac films are the blockbusters of the future.Jarmel said:
Mass Effect Franchise bitching thread
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
IoCaster
Member
It seems that you've all missed the main point. The complaint was about mission complete screens and why they exist in ME2. Here's a hint, they're a contrivance to obscure the part of no in mission leveling. The BioWare argument has been that leveling up during the course of a mission would break 'immersion' for the player, but there is the counter-argument that the mission complete screens themselves are immersion busting.
Now I'll tackle these one at a time...
All it does is reinforce the linear nature of those missions and how meaningless and inconsequential they ultimately are. You could go stop a shipwrecked freighter from plummeting off of a cliff and gain as much XP as killing scores of husks at an abandoned mine.
That has absolutely no relevance to ME2. Perhaps you can give some examples of quests in your MMO and how they might relate to any one mission in ME2 for an example. Comparing an MMO to a hybrid TPS/RPG lite is kind of questionable at best.
It matters in the sense that a player can choose to undertake a main/loyalty quest vs an N7 mission to gain a level. It matters to the player that tracks XP and can choose to tackle a main/loyalty quest knowing that they'll level up mid-mission for the talent upgrade they seek. It matters most of all to the player that expects choices when they play a supposed RPG. It matters to me because I like to have those options. YMMV
Now I'll tackle these one at a time...
Jarmel said:
All it does is reinforce the linear nature of those missions and how meaningless and inconsequential they ultimately are. You could go stop a shipwrecked freighter from plummeting off of a cliff and gain as much XP as killing scores of husks at an abandoned mine.
Billychu said:
That has absolutely no relevance to ME2. Perhaps you can give some examples of quests in your MMO and how they might relate to any one mission in ME2 for an example. Comparing an MMO to a hybrid TPS/RPG lite is kind of questionable at best.
MTMBStudios said:
It matters in the sense that a player can choose to undertake a main/loyalty quest vs an N7 mission to gain a level. It matters to the player that tracks XP and can choose to tackle a main/loyalty quest knowing that they'll level up mid-mission for the talent upgrade they seek. It matters most of all to the player that expects choices when they play a supposed RPG. It matters to me because I like to have those options. YMMV
iExplicit Chaos
Banned
The game is over-rated
IoCaster
Member
Jarmel said:
Of course, it's supposed to be a TPS/RPG hybrid, right? I want discrete XP for actions that my character undertakes in a mission. I could play a Vanguard and charge/accelerate past half the enemies on a map and gain the same XP that I would if I were to laboriously eliminate every merc. Where's the balance in that? Are you saying that you prefer that every obstacle or enemy would grant you the same XP regardless of situation or difficulty?
Same. I don't play RPGs for combat. Which is why it really bothers me in games like The Witcher 2 they make the combat really difficult. I love everything about the game but I'll never beat it because I suck at the combat. At least Mass Effect's easiest setting makes fights a breeze.Gvaz said:
IoCaster said:
If the mission is to save a cargo ship then the experience you gain should be for saving the ship, not for how many enemies you kill while on it. It is a mission based game after all. If the mission is "kill as many husks as possible" then yeah you should get more xp for more husks.
show me your skeleton
Member
i re-watched an early mass effect trailer recently & it's kind of disheartening how the series has moved away from what was shown. the change in tone is almost intangible & it's hard to pin down how it happened but it has definitely occurred.
So is this a new tradition? Trashing what many believed to be game of the year a few months after the vote?
I just finished ME2 for this first time this week- And I loved it. Not sure exactly what people were expecting as far as the story is concerned... I mean, Shepard
20 minutes into the first game. It was no secret that he was going to be an all-powerful savior of the universe.
The story was never fantastic- But the characters are really interesting, and the dialogue is great. The story was cliched from the beginning.
I just finished ME2 for this first time this week- And I loved it. Not sure exactly what people were expecting as far as the story is concerned... I mean, Shepard
became a Spectre
The story was never fantastic- But the characters are really interesting, and the dialogue is great. The story was cliched from the beginning.
Tela Vasir was the best character in ME2 and wasn't playable.
Actually the only complaint I have is that in ME2 if they were going to make it a TPS RPG; Bioware should have concenttrated on making the controls less sluggish and robotic. It feals really close to RE tank controls.
Oh and Female Shep in the black dress has the shoulders of a linebacker.
Actually the only complaint I have is that in ME2 if they were going to make it a TPS RPG; Bioware should have concenttrated on making the controls less sluggish and robotic. It feals really close to RE tank controls.
Oh and Female Shep in the black dress has the shoulders of a linebacker.
Billychu said:
What major plot holes are you referring to?
I guess I wasn't happy about how convenient things seemed,
considering the Illusive man basically hand fed every major mission to you during the game
Fimbulvetr
Member
Maxim726X said:
No having an opinions outside the norm is not, in fact, a new thing. Also there were lots of different opinions on Mass Effect 2 long before the GOTY vote, this isn't some new flavor of the week.
Maxim726X said:
Well he's the protagonist, of course people expected him to save everyone, but the amount of blatant aggrandizement even in the first game was pretty sad.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Call me crazy, but I've enjoyed both Mass Effects. More so than any other series this generation, I'd say these were examples of how the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'll quote myself:Maxim726X said:
Basically some of the characters were good, but there were way to many for the game to do them all justice.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Other games aren't sold as immersive, interactive narratives. If BioWare is going to talk the talk then we expect them to walk the walk.DatBreh said:
EmCeeGramr
Member
The Shepard as figure of worship is so incredibly apparent in ME2. The entire game is based around building a team and nobody seems to like each other or even talk to each other. They only interact on a meaningful level with Shepard. The "team" that's so vaunted throughout the game isn't a true team, it's a bunch of people who all happen to know Shepard and owe him something. This is especially true in most of the loyalty missions and Lair of the Shadow Broker, where BioWare didn't bother to give any real meaningful dialogue pertinent to the situation except in a rare handful of "correct" cases (Legion on Tali's mission, etc.)
It retroactively applies back to the ME1 cast too. Outside of Garrus and Tali's "remember the elevators?" conversation, nobody from ME1 cares about each other in 2. Wrex makes no comment that I can remember if you have Garrus or Tali in your party when you have your reunion with him. Heck, in Lair of the Shadow Broker, neither of them seem to have anything except meaningless flavor text ("Uh-oh!" "Look out!" "Keelah!") regarding Liara's plight.
And speaking of Lair of the Shadow Broker, there's an awkward as hell moment at the end where even if you didn't romance Liara in the first game, the game kinda acts like you did by giving you a moment of "alone time" in the Shadow Broker's room, even if your current romance is right there (he or she will be courteous and decide to leave you two alone WHAT). Shepard is so glorious of course, that Liara is clearly in love and will do anything for him, even taking on great burdens just to help the Great Shepard-sama.
It retroactively applies back to the ME1 cast too. Outside of Garrus and Tali's "remember the elevators?" conversation, nobody from ME1 cares about each other in 2. Wrex makes no comment that I can remember if you have Garrus or Tali in your party when you have your reunion with him. Heck, in Lair of the Shadow Broker, neither of them seem to have anything except meaningless flavor text ("Uh-oh!" "Look out!" "Keelah!") regarding Liara's plight.
And speaking of Lair of the Shadow Broker, there's an awkward as hell moment at the end where even if you didn't romance Liara in the first game, the game kinda acts like you did by giving you a moment of "alone time" in the Shadow Broker's room, even if your current romance is right there (he or she will be courteous and decide to leave you two alone WHAT). Shepard is so glorious of course, that Liara is clearly in love and will do anything for him, even taking on great burdens just to help the Great Shepard-sama.
The_Technomancer said:
I agree with most of those criticisms... Except for the character development. I honestly felt as if each character was fleshed out as much as you wanted them to be. The characters I liked (Thane, Garrus, Miranda and Samara in particular) I made sure to talk to often to flesh out their past and their motivations. Between that, their loyalty mission, and whatever information was in the codex.
In all seriousness, what were you looking for in terms of character development?
Alpha-Bromega
Member
The shift in tone between the games is almost hard to even take in. The immersive 80's sci fi feel of the first game was completely exchanged for 'hip' modern shooter feel, it's atmosphere was almost non existent and any that could be created was absolutely destroyed by "MISSION COMPLETE' screens and a overall feeling of artificial-ness that permeated through everything. It felt so gamey on every level, taking away an inventory or XP doesn't change that and I feel Bioware has no idea.
Witcher doesn't feel like a game, I feel like i'm in the story. Mass Effect 2 feels like 'hey this is a video game 2: you are playing a game'
nothing felt legitimate, like each character was a result of a focus group rather than the simple to the point of silly, yet honest, characters of the first game.
Witcher doesn't feel like a game, I feel like i'm in the story. Mass Effect 2 feels like 'hey this is a video game 2: you are playing a game'
nothing felt legitimate, like each character was a result of a focus group rather than the simple to the point of silly, yet honest, characters of the first game.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Fimbulvetr said:
Yeah, in both ME1 and ME2 you're expected to deal with really ridiculous plot vehicles very early on with the Spectre appointment and the lazarus treatment.
I found becoming Judge Dredd I AM THE LAW in ME1 bothered me more than working for the obvious bad guys thanks to their complimentary resurrection in ME2, but after about 5 minutes I was really over both.
In ME1 the story got more interesting from there out. In ME2 it didn't.
MISSION COMPLETE
Alpha-Bromega
Member
I'm fine with the Spectre appointment of ME1, it's mostly our previous 'experience' that justifies it and that's kind of cool. It's not exactly rewarding to become a spectre, but you spend enough time as 'just another marine' that there is some sort of meta progression. Same goes for being promoted later.
It's a shame there's no subtext about the legality or ethical aspects of having a secret hand of the government that isn't bound by any laws or need to respect due process, but oh well. At least Blade Runner mentioned the dilemma of killing a human instead of a replicant, but also doubted the legality of killing replicants at all.
It's a shame there's no subtext about the legality or ethical aspects of having a secret hand of the government that isn't bound by any laws or need to respect due process, but oh well. At least Blade Runner mentioned the dilemma of killing a human instead of a replicant, but also doubted the legality of killing replicants at all.
Fimbulvetr
Member
DatBreh said:
So people should have low standards?
DatBreh said:
I make fun of lots of horrible stories in games.
Just look at that recent AssCreed thread, the LTTP: Chrono Cross thread a week back, or any FFXIII and Kingdom Hearts thread. I'm not singling this shit out.
ProfessorMoran
Member
Fimbulvetr said:
This.
Fimbulvetr
Member
EmCeeGramr said:
I think the only other time is Ashley acknowledging Garrus when she chews you out for joining Cerberus(I don't think she has anything to say to Tali though).
Alpha-Bromega
Member
Wallach said:
without a doubt, in fact i didn't really like the idea of a spectre at all. why was it necessary? to justify us going and killing aliens, but it's ok here's my spectre badge?
It was rough playing ME2 because yeah, each character exists in a vacuum. they don't interact on any regular or realistic basis, they are avatars to bring with you to shooting galleries. You pick them on whose battle cries you hate the least and who looks the least stupid forever stuck in the MIDDLE OF THE UI. what a horrible anti immersion game quality
Alpha-Bromega
Member
Maxim726X said:
The fact that you are putting one character, and in a question mark, substantiates his statement that yeah, the characters don't really exist to eachother and thus the ENTIRE CONCEPT OF THE GAME is ruined. The Objective is to create a team, but there isn't really a team...
All i takes is post mission meetings in the conference room and conversations in the elevator, that's it
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Alpha-Bromega said:
Yeah thanks, that's a good summation of my problem with it. I hoped on my initial playthrough that the Spectre appointment was the central conflict in the story, that the game was going to move on from there with whether or not being a Spectre was really such a noble thing to aspire to - maybe have you openly rebel against the appointment - and instead there were like 2 or 3 dialog options about "hey is this really ok? lol well cool then".
I literally kept waiting for the other shoe to drop until it was obvious the Spectre status was going to be nothing but cruise-control for justifying the ease of persuading strangers with dialog choices. Then the story went the route of the ancient super alien trope, and frankly that was interesting enough for me to just suspend disbelief.
Unfortunately though, the unpleasantness of it all resurfaces at the end in a way by
you getting the option to save your semi-fascist benefactors or just prove you've grown so far up your own ass you know what's best for the galaxy.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
Same. I liked the missions where there is no shooting, or your out on the planet just discovering things/places (I miss the Mako missions).Gvaz said:
Alpha-Bromega said:
Well, I kind of understand the motivation that was put forth; the Alliance wanted a human Spectre for political reasons as much as military ones.
All told, it was handled a lot better than the "class" promotion where it is basically handed down to you in a pop-up menu literally where you're standing in some remote location seconds after you have resolved a mission. For something that important to your character development it seemed really random.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Eh, conversations are all well and good, and they did give me some insight, but every characters arc was so incredibly brief (if you can even call them arcs) because each character only had major things to say during their recruitment and loyalty missions, which both tended to be rather short. The best example the game offered of gradual, realistic development was actually Joker's changing relationship with EDI, even if they did have to resolve it with the terribly set up sequence at the end.Maxim726X said:
Alpha-Bromega said:
From what I remember, the banter on the elevators was mostly non sequitur as it was- There really wasn't much interaction between squad members. And the character in my previous post recognizes Shepard... Would it be cool if he recognized
Garrus?
The_Technomancer said:
Yes, the Joker/EDI interactions were interesting.
Did you speak to any of the characters after their missions? You have the opportunity to find out more about them and to ask questions...
How would you have preferred the development of the characters to occur?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Part of this is just an inherent problem with the structural design of Mass Effect 2, where they only give you a handful of mandatory missions so the entire arc of the game is weak. The first game was better in this regard, especially with its limited cast: what I would have found more interesting was if they gave every character unique lines, viewpoints, and changing opinions on the overall events as the story progressed (to a much greater degree then they actually did) This wouldn't be feasible with ten characters even if they had done it though, just because of the content generation requirements, which is why I think the game would have been better with four or five.Maxim726X said:
Fimbulvetr
Member
Maxim726X said:
Only in Council Space, which you are rarely in for either game.
Out of all the main missions your Spectre status only truly matters on the early parts of Noveria.
Maxim726X said:
The characters of ME2 and the way they develop don't really fit into the story very well.