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Media Create Sales: Week 8, 2014 (Feb 17 - Feb 23)

P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Yeah I don't buy FF brand has been damaged badly. The only FF's that have performed badly are the ones with 13 in their name. Heck we just saw FFX HD do 500k or somewhere near that and become the best selling HD remaster.
 
M

michaelius

Banned
If one worse game can damage series then one better game could restore a lot of faith in it.
Plus do we even know if FF XIII is considered bad in Japan ?
 
T

TheChaos0

Member
michaelius said:
If one worse game can damage series then one better game could restore a lot of faith in it.
Plus do we even know if FF XIII is considered bad in Japan ?
Click to expand...

Melkr_ said:
Lightning Returns sold pretty badly. I think numbers speaks of Japan dislike for the XIII saga.
Click to expand...

I think if the sequels didn't exist, we wouldn't even had this conversation. FFXIII sold fine and I don't think that FF works well with direct sequels, they will never equal or out do mainline entry. It's just they are easier and cheaper to produce but their sales don't really speak about how well the next mainline entry will sell.
 
Bruno MB

Bruno MB

Member
michaelius said:
Plus do we even know if FF XIII is considered bad in Japan ?
Click to expand...

[PS3] Final Fantasy XIII (Square Enix) {2009.12.17} - 1.516.532 / 1.905.979
[PS3] Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Square Enix) {2011.12.15} - 605.660 / 906.394 (-52%)
[PS3] Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII (Square Enix) {2013.11.21} - 301.181 / 412.349

[PS2] Final Fantasy X (Square) {2001.07.19} - 1.749.737 / 2.325.215
[PS2] Final Fantasy X-2 (Square Enix) {2003.03.13} - 1.472.914 / 1.960.937 (-16%)

The figures speak for themselves.
 
M

michaelius

Banned
XIII-2 was low effort sequel which missed on what people expect from FF and Lightning Returns is just a spinoff.

Hardly a proof of damage to mainline entries.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
We won't know of any damage to the mainline series until we see the legs on FFXV, it takes an entry to sink in. It'd be interesting to know how many bought XIIi, giving it reasonable sales, but now they won't be buying the next one.

In FF's favour it changes things up with every major release and provides a new jumping on point, so I think it could be more resistant to brand damage than we might otherwise think. XV looks pretty cool so far.
 
S

slaughterking

Member
FF has been in decline since the PSone days and XIII is just a continuation of that trend. We'll have to see how much damage has been done, but this whole generation has certainly not done any favors to the franchise and any momentum it might have had.
 
A

airmangataosenai

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
Yeah I don't buy FF brand has been damaged badly. The only FF's that have performed badly are the ones with 13 in their name. Heck we just saw FFX HD do 500k or somewhere near that and become the best selling HD remaster.
Click to expand...

I won't go as far as to do a ban bet or anything, but I can say I feel confident that XV will ultimately outsell XIII in Japan.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
airmangataosenai said:
I won't go as far as to do a ban bet or anything, but I can say I feel confident that XV will ultimately outsell XIII in Japan.
Click to expand...
Japan is more of a tricky case. On one hand, the launch sales is rock solid. On the other, we know that Japan is known for being handheld/smartphone land, and the lineup for upcoming PS4 titles for JP isn't too interesting for them.

Western sales should make up for weaker Japan sales however.
 
R

RalchAC

Member
redcrayon said:
We won't know of any damage to the mainline series until we see the legs on FFXV, it takes an entry to sink in. It'd be interesting to know how many bought XIIi, giving it reasonable sales, but now they won't be buying the next one.

In FF's favour it changes things up with every major release and provides a new jumping on point, so I think it could be more resistant to brand damage than we might otherwise think. XV looks pretty cool so far.
Click to expand...

I think FFXV will have lower first week sales than XIII. Something between 1 and 1.2 million units. It could have good legs if it's as awesome as Square hopes and it has good word of mouth.

I don't think the series is death when a spin-off like Type-0 can sell 800.000 copies. People just don't like XIII.

pieatorium said:
Tales for recovery? dont think poorly received is the right descriptor but big sales drop to big recovery definitely happened
Click to expand...

Well, I think franchises like DQ, Tales or FF benefit from having a new story / mechanics in every entry. If a game is bad, people can just pass and wait for the next one to be released.
 
T

tei15

Member
RalchAC said:
I think FFXV will have lower first week sales than XIII. Something between 1 and 1.2 million units. It could have good legs if it's as awesome as Square hopes and it has good word of mouth.

I don't think the series is death when a spin-off like Type-0 can sell 800.000 copies. People just don't like XIII.
Click to expand...

I sure hope it'll do better than that, but ultimately that depends on the install base. I guess they'll have a chance to sell more copies than FFXIII if PS4 noticeably outperforms PS3. Judging by the first week in Japan and overall PS4 sales that may be possible, but it comes down to whether there will be enough software over the first couple of years to sustain the growth.

Anyway, as a FF fan I really hope the series will return to the sort of prominence and commercial success it enjoyed in Japan in the late 90s/early 00s
 
A

AniHawk

Member
i think the biggest problem with final fantasy is that there hasn't been a new single player game in over five years. i won't knock ffxiv- they needed that to keep the online train going, and it had been ten years since ffxi, but it feels like ps3 era is this huge lightning-shaped void. in the psone era there was final fantasy vii, ff tactics, ffviii, and ffix between 1997 and 2000. in the ps2 era you had ffx, ffxi, and ffxii between 2001 and 2006. the wait for ffxiii was more like the wait for ffvii with none of the impact. it took three years before we saw a game and then the generation ended (and the next one started) with ffxiv.

there's no way ffxv will ever recoup its losses either. i wonder if square enix would be better off collaborating with team ico to turn the last guardian into final fantasy xvi so they can have final fantasy xvii out before the end of the generation.
 
R

RalchAC

Member
AniHawk said:
there's no way ffxv will ever recoup its losses either. i wonder if square enix would be better off collaborating with team ico to turn the last guardian into final fantasy xvi so they can have final fantasy xvii out before the end of the generation.
Click to expand...

I expect FFXV to have a sequel due to the high development costs (it's been almost 7 years paying people and spending resources). However, I just hope it's not a direct one. They could use different characters, reuse the world and tell what happened in certain super important period mentioned in the original.

And they really need to start reusing assets. I won't care if FFXVI Behemoth is like the one if XV. Most people won't care. They should use the same monster models / animations from now on (aside bosses) and other secondary stuff. Obviously they should not copypaste a full city.

It's on a much smaller scale, but I kinda like how the whole SMT franchise shares demons, enemies and other stuff. It's a good way to keep your budget at reasonable levels and focus on what is important.
 
R

redcrayon

Member
RalchAC said:
I think FFXV will have lower first week sales than XIII. Something between 1 and 1.2 million units. It could have good legs if it's as awesome as Square hopes and it has good word of mouth.

I don't think the series is death when a spin-off like Type-0 can sell 800.000 copies. People just don't like XIII.



Well, I think franchises like DQ, Tales or FF benefit from having a new story / mechanics in every entry. If a game is bad, people can just pass and wait for the next one to be released.
Click to expand...

I think install base will have more of an effect on FFXV sales in Japan than dislike of Lightning, which I suspect is more of a western forum thing.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
RalchAC said:
And they really need to start reusing assets. I won't care if FFXVI Behemoth is like the one if XV. Most people won't care. They should use the same monster models / animations from now on (aside bosses) and other secondary stuff. Obviously they should not copypaste a full city.

It's on a much smaller scale, but I kinda like how the whole SMT franchise shares demons, enemies and other stuff. It's a good way to keep your budget at reasonable levels and focus on what is important.
Click to expand...
It's one thing I've sometimes wondered... why aren't assets re-used and shared more both intra- and inter-studio. Does SCEWWS do it? EAD?

Even inter-publisher, could common art assets - like a middleware equivalent - be a means to stemming costs? Is any of this happening already?
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
RalchAC said:
I think FFXV will have lower first week sales than XIII. Something between 1 and 1.2 million units. It could have good legs if it's as awesome as Square hopes and it has good word of mouth.

I don't think the series is death when a spin-off like Type-0 can sell 800.000 copies. People just don't like XIII.
Click to expand...

We've played the game with FF and legs many times and the result was always the same. Majority of those who want to buy it will buy it from first week.

Type-0 is as much as spin-off as is Peace Walker.
 
T

TheChaos0

Member
AniHawk said:
i think the biggest problem with final fantasy is that there hasn't been a new single player game in over five years. i won't knock ffxiv- they needed that to keep the online train going, and it had been ten years since ffxi, but it feels like ps3 era is this huge lightning-shaped void. in the psone era there was final fantasy vii, ff tactics, ffviii, and ffix between 1997 and 2000. in the ps2 era you had ffx, ffxi, and ffxii between 2001 and 2006. the wait for ffxiii was more like the wait for ffvii with none of the impact. it took three years before we saw a game and then the generation ended (and the next one started) with ffxiv.
Click to expand...

It's even worse for the West because they never got FF Type-0.

AniHawk said:
there's no way ffxv will ever recoup its losses either. i wonder if square enix would be better off collaborating with team ico to turn the last guardian into final fantasy xvi so they can have final fantasy xvii out before the end of the generation.
Click to expand...

Haha, that's one crazy idea.

It's unclear how long Versus has actually been in development, so I wouldn't count it out on bringing in profit just yet.
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
to me PS4 is confirming to be the home console for Japan, even if homes are weaker than portables it seems clear that it will perform good. I still stand with my prediction of possible PS3 LTD numbers (the only successor to be able to top or almost top it's predecessor during the generation)
I don't understand what "dream" is dead or why people is concern about PS4 because of the tie ratio at launch.
HW will still be high next week in the MC thread, and of course after that we'll see lower numbers, but nowhere near to the horrible Wii U and Vita (original Vita ones) numbers. The software will sell as usual, compared to the effort put and to the install base: at launch there was a bundled game, plus the DD is strong today (especially on the PS environment) and games were almost cross-gen so...
If we have to read something on those tie ratio I see only reassuring tips about PS4 future performance: it is well-received even if up to now there is no outstanding software offer. And we know that that offer will come on the PS4.
Because third party games sell on Sony platforms, because there is the chance to make the game "multiplatform" with both PS3 and Vita, because it's obvious that a game that tries to sell both in Japan and in the West cannot skip the PS4, and so on.
Will the mobile continue its growth eroding also home console gaming? yes. Will the 3DS still be predominant in terms of LTD hw numbers? Yes. Will the PS4 still be able to be recognized by both consumers and developers as the better choice for traditional gaming? Probably yes.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
shinra-bansho said:
It's one thing I've sometimes wondered... why aren't assets re-used and shared more both intra- and inter-studio. Does SCEWWS do it? EAD?

Even inter-publisher, could common art assets - like a middleware equivalent - be a means to stemming costs? Is any of this happening already?
Click to expand...

Closest to that are EA and Capcom with their engines, dont know if their is any asset sharing going on, like say a car from need for speed poping up in some other game although with that example theres likely some licensing shenanigans in the first place. Ubi was sort of moving that way too iirc with shared engine for different games
 
S

sörine

Banned
pieatorium said:
Closest to that are EA and Capcom with their engines, dont know if their is any asset sharing going on, like say a car from need for speed poping up in some other game although with that example theres likely some licensing shenanigans in the first place. Ubi was sort of moving that way too iirc with shared engine for different games
Click to expand...
Nintendo EAD shared engines for games going back to the N64 days. Mario 64 and Zelda OOT use the same basic engine.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
sörine;102478145 said:
Nintendo EAD shared engines for games going back to the N64 days. Mario 64 and Zelda OOT use the same basic engine.
Click to expand...

yeah other devs have too but afaik not on the same publisher wide scale as EA and Capcom
 
S

sörine

Banned
pieatorium said:
yeah other devs have too but afaik not on the same publisher wide scale as EA and Capcom
Click to expand...
Nintendo does also have separate base engines they reserve for 1st party stuff across teams. They lent it out once to SE for FFCC My Life as a King on Wiiware. They're just not as public about it as with Renderware or MT Framework, maybe also because of their position as a hardware provider in addition to being a games publisher.

EA and Capcom don't exactly have a publisher wide shared standard either. Different internal teams use different engines all the time at both companies.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
sörine;102479267 said:
Nintendo does also have separate base engines they reserve for 1st party stuff across teams. They lent it out once to SE for FFCC My Life as a King on Wiiware. They're just not as public about it as with Renderware or MT Framework, maybe also because of their position as a hardware provider in addition to being a games publisher.

EA and Capcom don't exactly have a publisher wide shared standard either. Different internal teams use different engines all the time at both companies.
Click to expand...

Sony develops their own engine that other devs can use too, phyre?

Capcom internal uses mostly mt for a while (outsourced stuff uses whatever) and as of a couple years now every single internal non sports ea games uses frostbite and they are moving their team sports games to a single engine too but i dont remember its name (iirc need for speed and ufc use frostbite not the sport)]s engine. EA published games not made by ea dont use these engines (eg crysis) but internally they are all in on them.
 
F

Foshy

Member
1st Course said:
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/news/1000073465/index.html?kind=0002&store=0011

Yodobashi updated again (22:00 JST).

PlayStation 4 First Limited Pack now OOS in 18 stores out of 20. PlayStation 4 First Limited Pack with PlayStation Camera OOS in 5 stores out of 20.

Screenshot as of 27th February 22:00 JST
Screenshot as of 27th February 21:40 JST
Screenshot as of 27th February 18:25 JST
Click to expand...

After the last few console launches, I'm not sure if multiple SKUs on day 1 are a good idea as there seems to always be one that is less requested. 3G Vita, Basic Wii U and now (though maybe to a lesser extent) the PS4+camera.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
Foshy said:
After the last few console launches, I'm not sure if multiple SKUs on day 1 are a good idea as there seems to always be one that is less requested. 3G Vita, Basic Wii U and now (though maybe to a lesser extent) the PS4+camera.
Click to expand...

camera edition was the first to sell out from the first shipment though. Maybe they ordered more of it since the reg edition didnt sell out till much later
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Road said:
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/812/812527/

Dengeki sales are out.

PS4 total software
-without Knack: 203,884
-with Knack: 520,671

hardware: 316,787
sellthrough: ~85% (~360k to ~380k shipment estimate)
split
-without camera: ~60%
-with camera: ~40%

There's a comparison with other systems.
Click to expand...

Total shipment - 372,691
Split on units sold
Without camera (60%) - 190,072
With camera (40%) - 126,715

Tie ratio (Knack excluded) - 0.64 (worse tie ratio by far in modern times?)

Considering how sales were split, Yodobashi having still plenty of PS4 with cameras after 2 days of availability might not be a good sign, since they should represent a good part of PS4 new shipment again. Personally, I expect second week PS4 sales to be in the 70-80k ballpark, hopefully...which wouldn't be that good, but those awful software sales make me quite pessimistic on the matter...

Any reports from people being in Japan? Maybe from a Yodobashi, like the Akiba one, where the console is reported as sold out, so we can even see Yodobashi's site updates reliability?
 
P

pieatorium

Member
Mpl90 said:
Yodobashi having still plenty of PS4 with cameras after 2 days of availability
Click to expand...

using thar webpage a good chunk of those stores didnt get restock till today. pretty much the same time as road posted them as being available is when the site was updated
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
pieatorium said:
using thar webpage a good chunk of those stores didnt get restock till today. pretty much the same time as road posted them as being available is when the site was updated
Click to expand...

Ah, ok, that makes things better. Strange, though...I remember it was said they would have new stock on 26th, why update on 27th then? ...I'm a little wondering how much reliable can be Yodobashi's site, also seeing what Cheesemeister posted last week.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102054341&postcount=977

Combined to the fact the site was stating there would have been no stock till 26th in that specific store, even counting the difference in times.

That's another reason for which I'd like to know more from who lives there, if possible.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
Mpl90 said:
Ah, ok, that makes things better. Strange, though...I remember it was said they would have new stock on 26th, why update on 27th then? ...I'm a little wondering how much reliable can be Yodobashi's site, also seeing what Cheesemeister posted last week.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102054341&postcount=977

Combined to the fact the site was stating there would have been no stock till 26th in that specific store, even counting the difference in times.

That's another reason for which I'd like to know more from who lives there, if possible.
Click to expand...

most of them updated to a restock date of 2/27 late on monday iirc, even the ones that actually got restocked on the 26th. The site updates multiple times every day the comment about updating was when those specific stores changed from out of stock to in stock

that pic was taken midday on monday, maybe japan is different but id expect most sales on a non release day school/work day to come much later in the day

i mean we already know its 85% sellthrough, a picture from a single store a day after the tracking period shouldn't cause you that much concern
 
C

crinale

Member
Mpl90 said:
Ah, ok, that makes things better. Strange, though...I remember it was said they would have new stock on 26th, why update on 27th then? ...I'm a little wondering how much reliable can be Yodobashi's site, also seeing what Cheesemeister posted last week.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102054341&postcount=977

Combined to the fact the site was stating there would have been no stock till 26th in that specific store, even counting the difference in times.

That's another reason for which I'd like to know more from who lives there, if possible.
Click to expand...

That pic was at Yodobashi Kyoto, and 3-4 hrs after that it was all sold out.
At Yodobashi in Tokyo normal editions are out of stock until next Sunday.
I wonder if that would affect camera editions...
 
S

sörine

Banned
pieatorium said:
Sony develops their own engine that other devs can use too, phyre?

Capcom internal uses mostly mt for a while (outsourced stuff uses whatever) and as of a couple years now every single internal non sports ea games uses frostbite and they are moving their team sports games to a single engine too but i dont remember its name (iirc need for speed and ufc use frostbite not the sport)]s engine. EA published games not made by ea dont use these engines (eg crysis) but internally they are all in on them.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying it's not universal. Capcom Vancouver shares no technology with Osaka or Tokyo and instead does everything ground up. EA's unification under Frostbite is something that just happened a year back too and it's also not universal.

Nintendo also has one of the earlier examples of asset sharing with the N64 Pokémon games. EAD and Hal split up modeling duties and shared the Pokémon assets across both Stadium and Snap. Nintendo does this with Mario assets too across the various games.

And while Phyre engine was a great move, Sony themselves barely used it and it was pretty low end. It's not like they gave ICE engine access or something.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
pieatorium said:
most of them updated to a restock date of 2/27 late on monday iirc, even the ones that actually got restocked on the 26th.

Makes sense. I just checked it on Monday morning / afternoon, I didn't know there had been changes for most of them, thanks

that pic was taken midday on monday, maybe japan is different but id expect most sales on a non release day school/work day to come much later in the day

They seemed like a lot of units in that pic, so, even counting that, I don't know if the demand would have been enough to end all that stock. But still...I'd love to hear more reports from Japan. Searching for them on several blogs (azalyn, those one linked by dualshockers), I didn't see them I suppose (Google Translate, you know :( ), just how the limited edition will end in February and, starting from March, there will be the PS4 simple SKU
Click to expand...

Answers bolded

EDIT @crinale (I saw your answer only when I almost finished my post) I know there was the difference in time between when the pic was posted and that specific Yodobashi's site update, but those units seem a lot to me to end in 3-4 hours. If you're so sure, though, I suppose you were there, at Yodobashi Kyoto, on Monday, right?
 
C

crinale

Member
Mpl90 said:
Answers bolded

@crinale (I saw your answer only when I almost finished my post) I know there was the difference in time between when the pic was posted and that specific Yodobashi's site update, but those units seem a lot to me to end in 3-4 hours. If you're so sure, though, I suppose you were there, at Yodobashi Kyoto, on Monday, right?
Click to expand...

The Kyoto info was I read from the web, though I live in Tokyo so I could tell the reliability for Tokyo side only. Sorry about that. But yeah, I assume if it says sold out at website they mean it.
However, if Yodobashi stocking a small pile inside the register section then they may be reserved for pre-orders. This also explains that after few days they'll claim they have some units available, only to be sold out a few hours later.
This happens pretty much every console launch, so nothing special.
With the only exception of Xbos360 IIRC
 
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