Draugoth
Gold Member
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
That’s awesome. These guys are always at least doing something new and interesting, even if it doesn’t always land. I’m glad they’re still working on new projects. It feels like an experimental dev like MM would have trouble keeping their doors open in the current game dev climate.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Honestly...it's a miracle these guys are still open.
When you think about it, it's not every studio that has the luxury to release their last hit game in 2011 (LittleBigPlanet 2) and still be open in 2024.
I know they still did Tearaway but it was hardly big. And Dreams...well...
(LittleBigPlanet 3 was made by Sumo Digital btw)
When you think about it, it's not every studio that has the luxury to release their last hit game in 2011 (LittleBigPlanet 2) and still be open in 2024.
I know they still did Tearaway but it was hardly big. And Dreams...well...
(LittleBigPlanet 3 was made by Sumo Digital btw)
Trogdor1123
Member
I’ve liked their games. Tearaway is great fun.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
They just need something like Tearaway, a small project that gets high praise, so they can build up momentum
Making game engines really screwed up this studio and they lost focus on making actual games
Making game engines really screwed up this studio and they lost focus on making actual games
touchfuzzy
Member
Sometimes I wonder why Dreams didn't hit, though. Like, Roblox is huge, as well as community created content in stuff like Minecraft and Fortnite. It's essentially that but with more power and customization available, and is extremely well made. They had the right idea at the right time, when other similar stuff took off, and it just didn't stick.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Two reasons:
1. Complex dev tools that had to be used with controllers, which made for a robust but cumbersome experience
2. Not F2P.
The artful mincer
Member
Cool! Just make a damn game... forget trying to create an engine.
There games have a really distinct cool art style just go with that.
There games have a really distinct cool art style just go with that.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Media Molecule:
Guerilla Munch
Member
Such an unbelievably talented group of developers, I hope they can finally make another massive hit
Monkfish877
Member
Never seen a studio self sabotage their own game like the way MM did with Dreams. At every turn they refused to show what their engine was capable of in terms of the scope of games you could make. it was ridiculous and I still have no idea why they did that. Stream after stream, year after year they just kept on refusing to show what their engine was capable of, I even remember Shu Yoshida telling them to show some off some proper games on the Dreams engine on one of their streams but nope, they never did. Only when the game got canned they released Tren, Unbelievable. Whoever was making those braindead decisions needs to be fired.
bender
What time is it?
With Sony's focus on porting titles to PC, seems like a good time to do another game with their focus on creation tools.
Games of Today
Member
I was WAY too complicated for smooth brains like myself to make anything. It was literally just a full graphics engine.
On the flip side, I used to LOVE Far Cry's map editor and was able to use it with relative ease.
Dreams needed a PC release and then it may have had a chance.
touchfuzzy
Member
I guess too that if you're going to invest that much time and effort in to figuring out how to use the tools and make something, why not learn Unity or UE4 and make a real game you can put on to Steam, or make something in Roblox and trick some kids into buying some microtransactions so you can make some money.
Markio128
Member
I hope they make another game creator, but with a much simpler tool set. I don’t know why they don’t just use a character creator like RPGs use rather than the sculpting nonsense that made it really difficult to get a good result.
And don’t even get me started on the level design aspect. Even the tutorials were mind blowing in their complexity.
The only element that I really got into was the music editor, which was relatively easy to use and easy to get great results from with a little patience.
And don’t even get me started on the level design aspect. Even the tutorials were mind blowing in their complexity.
The only element that I really got into was the music editor, which was relatively easy to use and easy to get great results from with a little patience.
Games of Today
Member
Right, exactly. Collin Moriarty actually brought this up a few times on his podcast. It's pretty pointless to just make a game on Dreams when there is no real way to monetize it or anything. It would have been cool if you could submit your created game to PlayStation to sell on the PS Store or something along those lines.
It didn't have online multiplayer
AmuroChan
Member
The tools in Dreams were pretty obtuse from what I remembered. Also, restricting it to just one platform was an idiotic decision if you want to proliferate a creation tool. You brought up Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite. What do all those games have in common? They're on everything and widely accessible.
clarky
Gold Member
It was very clever don't get me wrong but you need a game to build on. Like LBP, Super Mario Maker, Halo with forge, Trackmania etc.
Dreams was so niche im surprised it was ever greenlit.
dotnotbot
Member
It's underrated, very clever, comfy game.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Others don't posses their talent, or a franchise as successful as Little Big Planet.
Varteras
Member
To be fair, neither London nor Pixelopus were award winning studios. A BAFTA fellowship is nothing to sneese at, from what I understand. Media Molecule produced a big hit with Little Big Planet at a time when PS3 was looking for as many wins as it could get. Their games are always highly regarded by critics. Their legacy and product quality put them in another league compared to the studios Sony has closed. That being said, I do suspect there is a great deal of pressure on them this time to produce something that makes money. Seeing as they haven't done that for a decade or so.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Still such a massive ball dropped they never did that. I was actually considering the game for creation purposes but little reason without a way to sell the finished creation if I felt it were worth doing.
Shame, too, because there are some pretty cool game concepts from the community in Dreams. Just feels like SIE short-changed MM of support they could've desperately used when they needed it the most.
Xtib81
Member
Lbp was successful 15 years ago. Now in terms of talent, I'd say they are more creative than talented. They take forever to release games that interest very few people and don't sell.
Last edited:
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Small studio size means their lack of production isn't as expensive to float for Sony. Tearaway and Dreams are generally considered well made by critics. Plus, I think Little Big Planets success helped give them a longer than normal rope.
That said, I think Sony reviewed all their studios projects recently and generally thought this one had decent promise. If this flops they might be cooked. I doubt it will.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I'm quite surprised they haven't been shut down. I'm glad they haven't, just surprised.
SidViscous
Member
Mm have never made a great game, and their concept of making a gamified game dev tool and having the community make the bulk of the content has proved to be flawed every time they've tried, especially with how easy actual game dev tools are to learn and use these days.
But we've lost a lot of studios in the UK, so I really hope this new IP isn't just more of the same from them.
But we've lost a lot of studios in the UK, so I really hope this new IP isn't just more of the same from them.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I hope their next game is more successful than Dreams. I love Dreams but it's niche AF and got ignored by most.
semiconscious
Member
Belthazar
Member
Dreams isn't available on PC and mobile, that's why. Roblox is huge, just not on console.
Belthazar
Member
Tearaway is genuinely great, especially the Vita version.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
IF it ends up flopping, I'd rather Sony just spin MM off as an independent studio maybe with some start-up money in exchange for right-to-first-refusal on PlayStation publishing rights for whatever game they were able to develop once independent, even if funding for the game mainly came through another company or investor.
One of the few cases where I'd suggest they actually take an approach like Microsoft did with Toys for Bob because, let's be real, if TFB weren't spun off they were gonna get shut down.
yurinka
Member
Why? All their games have been profitable and they normally win several awards with each new game. Plus they are a relatively small studio with a good part of their staff being juniors who started there their gamedev career, so it should be cheap to fund.
Last edited:
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Dreams was profitable? That's surprising.
DeepSpace5D
Member
Long live platformers. I’m down for what MM put out next.
Xtib81
Member
Do you have any numbers or sources ?
crackajack
Member
Adding it to Plus did not change its success and revitalise any hype one bit, ie offering it to millions had zero effect, so I doubt proper f2p would have really mattered.
The tools were more complex than LBP, but also more powerful, too powerful, too complex. Controllers might not be great for certain tasks, but especially in VR sculpting must have been more intuitive than other tools, so possibly the opposite of cumbersome for those who really spent the required time with it?
Imho it was just too complex for the LBP+Roblox crowd and too pointless for the Unreal/Unity crowd, that rather digs their teeth into "actual" projects. PC might have helped, and or export tools, but imho the lack of monetization for the necessary proper teams or very enthusiastic individuals prevented success.
The saddest part is imo that the game looked great, really unique and MM themselves and or other teams making just regular games with it, would maybe have been more successfull. Some capable teams might have picked it up if there was any money in it for them. Jo Schmo of course did mostly again copyright infringement Super Mario recreations or whatever. The whole premise of throwing some editor out again seems to still be alive for other (more primitive?) games but wasting those tools on average people was imho in hindsight just wrong. Small Astrobot and Sackboy games for 4,99 each, might have been nice. Or make some levels with Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank, Kratos, Nathan Drake, Aloy etc. everyone from Sony's lineup and beyond, like Fortnite does. Each for a small price and standalone and just showcasing the tools.
yurinka
Member
Higher ups from their studio mentioned in multiple interviews that all Media Molecule games were profitable. In this case Media Molecule publishes publicly their profitability in this website of the UK government, as I remember because they receive some public grant:
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05665849/filing-history
In that website, as an example we see that 20 Dec 2023 they posted "Full accounts made up to 31 March 2023", where we see it was profitable the fiscals years that ended in 2022 and 2023:
We see in that document the results of an independent auditory (page 4) saying this:
If we go to check their late 2021 equivalent document to see their 2021 and 2020 profit:
Regarding 2019 and 2018:
And so on, here you have Media Molecule profits until the PS3 days:
So yes, we see in MM finances that they have been profitable every single year since the PS3 days (their biggest hit, the first LBP was released late 2008).
Since 2021, a year after Dreams release, they don't report many things like revenue, sales/administrative/distribution costs, groos and operative income: they may be handled by some other SIE subsidiary now, and send them finance income to compensate their tiny financing costs of that year, specially compared to the profits they have been making the previous years.
Last edited: