Men and women have different tastes and that's fine. The sooner the gaming industry realizes that, the better

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Mods close this if this is too political. Gonna try to keep this short because I know y'all mofos don't read past the title.

A few days ago, I told my girlfriend to sell me on RDR2 because it's one of her favorite games ever. I watched her play and my opinion didn't budge. In fact, it was strengthened. However, through all her giggling and my grunting, I realized one thing: she didn't play the game the same way I did. What she mostly enjoyed is shit I don't care about; hunting, camping, caring for horses, brushing them, studying animals, going to town to get supplies and make money for the camp, interacting with people and just wandering about. Robbing? Killing? Starting fights? She only did those when she had to. She didn't care one bit for the action and at one point even asked me to complete a mission for her because she's a bad shot. She adores the story, writing, and characters, and cannot get enough of them. This reminded me of when I was younger and trying to get my sisters into video games. They couldn't have been less interested in Goldeneye, Turok, or Mortal Kombat. They found Ocarina of Time alright, and the older one liked Tekken (III?). Mario Party was their jam though. Still, no games really hooked them until we got The Sims 2 for PC in 2004 and we could no longer get them away from the computer after that. My older brother also bought a used SNES with Bust-A-Move maybe in 2002 and both fell in love with this game, especially the older one. To this day, I'm still baffled she has more gaming stamina than I do.

My point? Men and women (I generalize, obviously) are drawn to different things when it comes to games and most things, really. The gaming industry's attempt at creating boss babes and female actions stars because of their lack of representation to attract more women is a fool's errand. You're still getting the same men who for the most part don't mind playing as women. It's not moving the needle, so this crusade is not only moronic, but fruitless and even damaging. Have they stopped to think that maybe women don't like shooting things and punching bad guys as much as men do? So even if it's a woman doing it, they won't be any more interested. Of course, they'll lie to you and state that almost 50% of gamers are women, ignoring that, as I say, they're more likely to play Farmville and Candy Crush than COD or Elden Ring. It's alright for women not to be into action games with big explosions. There's nothing shameful about that, but modern propaganda insists that they must go out there with the boys and play games they have no interest in. Do I have something against all the new female heroes? Not really. However, I do have something against the intent behind the trend that pushes something nobody asked for or want and that tries to convince us that "strong female characters" in action games are just as important to women. They aren't. Men and women aren't the same. Just because it's Jasmine wielding the shotgun instead of Steve won't make a difference.

There's a lot more I want to say, but I'll leave it at that.
 
Netflix No Shit GIF by Stranger Things
 
The problem isn't men vs women. The problem is the weird thing where the Western game industry think they can dictate what a customer likes against their will.

You find out what your intended customers are, find out what they like, and then make what they like so they would buy it. This is Business 101. Instead, the idiots in charge decided they will make what the HR department likes, and then try to push it to customers who don't want it. All the while the HR department doesn't even play games.

it used to be that it is fine that the game studio make what they want to play, because the studio teams are gamers themselves. If gamers make a game, they can be assured that other gamers will like it. But Game Studios these days admit they hire people who don't play games at all. So the production team has no idea what sells and don't care.

Basically it isn't "making what pleases a gender", it is "making what pleases your market". Asia had not forgotten about that, but the West has completely forgotten.
 
How can this be too political? You described only in personal experiences that you've had your entire life. It really doesn't take a man's brain to figure out this dilemma you've had for some reason. I think it's also because its more acceptable to play video games these days because of the variety available. There's a lot more women making games today than before.
Men and boys were the guinea pigs for gaming back in the day.
 
Mods close this if this is too political. Gonna try to keep this short because I know y'all mofos don't read past the title.

A few days ago, I told my girlfriend to sell me on RDR2 because it's one of her favorite games ever. I watched her play and my opinion didn't budge. In fact, it was strengthened. However, through all her giggling and my grunting, I realized one thing: she didn't play the game the same way I did. What she mostly enjoyed is shit I don't care about; hunting, camping, caring for horses, brushing them, studying animals, going to town to get supplies and make money for the camp, interacting with people and just wandering about. Robbing? Killing? Starting fights? She only did those when she had to. She didn't care one bit for the action and at one point even asked me to complete a mission for her because she's a bad shot. She adores the story, writing, and characters, and cannot get enough of them. This reminded me of when I was younger and trying to get my sisters into video games. They couldn't have been less interested in Goldeneye, Turok, or Mortal Kombat. They found Ocarina of Time alright, and the older one liked Tekken (III?). Mario Party was their jam though. Still, no games really hooked them until we got The Sims 2 for PC in 2004 and we could no longer get them away from the computer after that. My older brother also bought a used SNES with Bust-A-Move maybe in 2002 and both fell in love with this game, especially the older one. To this day, I'm still baffled she has more gaming stamina than I do.

My point? Men and women (I generalize, obviously) are drawn to different things when it comes to games and most things, really. The gaming industry's attempt at creating boss babes and female actions stars because of their lack of representation to attract more women is a fool's errand. You're still getting the same men who for the most part don't mind playing as women. It's not moving the needle, so this crusade is not only moronic, but fruitless and even damaging. Have they stopped to think that maybe women don't like shooting things and punching bad guys as much as men do? So even if it's a woman doing it, they won't be any more interested. Of course, they'll lie to you and state that almost 50% of gamers are women, ignoring that, as I say, they're more likely to play Farmville and Candy Crush than COD or Elden Ring. It's alright for women not to be into action games with big explosions. There's nothing shameful about that, but modern propaganda insists that they must go out there with the boys and play games they have no interest in. Do I have something against all the new female heroes? Not really. However, I do have something against the intent behind the trend that pushes something nobody asked for or want and that tries to convince us that "strong female characters" in action games are just as important to women. They aren't. Men and women aren't the same. Just because it's Jasmine wielding the shotgun instead of Steve won't make a difference.

There's a lot more I want to say, but I'll leave it at that.
No they're exactly the same 50% of ghost of yoteis buyers will be grade school girls, soccer moms and grandmas.
 
Mods close this if this is too political. Gonna try to keep this short because I know y'all mofos don't read past the title.

A few days ago, I told my girlfriend to sell me on RDR2 because it's one of her favorite games ever. I watched her play and my opinion didn't budge. In fact, it was strengthened. However, through all her giggling and my grunting, I realized one thing: she didn't play the game the same way I did. What she mostly enjoyed is shit I don't care about; hunting, camping, caring for horses, brushing them, studying animals, going to town to get supplies and make money for the camp, interacting with people and just wandering about. Robbing? Killing? Starting fights? She only did those when she had to. She didn't care one bit for the action and at one point even asked me to complete a mission for her because she's a bad shot. She adores the story, writing, and characters, and cannot get enough of them. This reminded me of when I was younger and trying to get my sisters into video games. They couldn't have been less interested in Goldeneye, Turok, or Mortal Kombat. They found Ocarina of Time alright, and the older one liked Tekken (III?). Mario Party was their jam though. Still, no games really hooked them until we got The Sims 2 for PC in 2004 and we could no longer get them away from the computer after that. My older brother also bought a used SNES with Bust-A-Move maybe in 2002 and both fell in love with this game, especially the older one. To this day, I'm still baffled she has more gaming stamina than I do.

My point? Men and women (I generalize, obviously) are drawn to different things when it comes to games and most things, really. The gaming industry's attempt at creating boss babes and female actions stars because of their lack of representation to attract more women is a fool's errand. You're still getting the same men who for the most part don't mind playing as women. It's not moving the needle, so this crusade is not only moronic, but fruitless and even damaging. Have they stopped to think that maybe women don't like shooting things and punching bad guys as much as men do? So even if it's a woman doing it, they won't be any more interested. Of course, they'll lie to you and state that almost 50% of gamers are women, ignoring that, as I say, they're more likely to play Farmville and Candy Crush than COD or Elden Ring. It's alright for women not to be into action games with big explosions. There's nothing shameful about that, but modern propaganda insists that they must go out there with the boys and play games they have no interest in. Do I have something against all the new female heroes? Not really. However, I do have something against the intent behind the trend that pushes something nobody asked for or want and that tries to convince us that "strong female characters" in action games are just as important to women. They aren't. Men and women aren't the same. Just because it's Jasmine wielding the shotgun instead of Steve won't make a difference.

There's a lot more I want to say, but I'll leave it at that.
You are describing preferences, and everyone has different preferences. Sometimes people will have preferences that are in line with yours, sometimes not. Congratulations on discovering this fact of life.
 
You are describing preferences, and everyone has different preferences. Sometimes people will have preferences that are in line with yours, sometimes not. Congratulations on discovering this fact of life.
And sometimes certain groups will have certain preferences, which is what this is more about.
 
Women want games where you can dress up your character and organize stuff. This is why they love The Sims. If you want to learn more about a woman check out their Sims families. I looked at my wife's saved games, i have a lot of questions both about her and our relationship lol.
 
You are describing preferences, and everyone has different preferences. Sometimes people will have preferences that are in line with yours, sometimes not. Congratulations on discovering this fact of life.

But this is more about preferences that are typical for men vs women, not individual preferences. Pick two movies: one an action superhero flick and the other a romantic comedy. Not too hard figuring out which movie men will gravitate towards vs women.
 
OP I think it is a good thing that a connection you made to another person allowed you to reach an epiphany with artistic mediums.

I hope that you will make more connections in life to help you reach the ones beyond this one.
 
An old article from 2017, but probably similar to now. Although more females will play shooters now due to Fortnite.

Without even knowing the survey results back then, pretty sure every gamer would come to similar kinds of assumptions. Which ended up true. It's just life. Men and women have different preferences in stuff. Doesn't matter if it's games, movies, what kind of car to drive or what food to order at a restaurant.


genre-gender-percentages.png
 
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But this is more about preferences that are typical for men vs women, not individual preferences. Pick two movies: one an action superhero flick and the other a romantic comedy. Not too hard figuring out which movie men will gravitate towards vs women.
Women would be 40% of the public of the superhero flick.
 
It's not even men vs women everyone has different taste .

You could be identical twin brothers raised exactly the same but have totally different views & taste.

It's weird to me when I see echo chambers trying to push things in one direction because I don't believe for a second that all of them came to these same ideologies without somewhat being brainwashed somewhere down the line.
 
It's not even men vs women everyone has different taste .

You could be identical twin brothers raised exactly the same but have totally different views & taste.

It's weird to me when I see echo chambers trying to push things in one direction because I don't believe for a second that all of them came to these same ideologies without somewhat being brainwashed somewhere down the line.
No, it absolutely is a man vs woman thing in this particular instance. It is true that everyone has different tastes, but it is also true that gender is a strong predictor of where one's tastes will gravitate when it comes to gaming. If you push out a game with a bunch of aliens getting blown to pieces by action heroes, it'll draw more men. If you push out a game with more social aspects like relationship building, house management or building, it will attract more women than the former. Pretending that there's no separation between men and women and that it's all just down to individuals is disingenuous.

If that is what guys assume women are like when gaming, maybe I really do have a dick and it's so small I can't see it.
Or maybe you're one of those women who likes action games. They still exist.
 
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Men are generaly more violent then women which is a bad thing. This push for girl bosses and violent girls in movies only acomplishes one thing. Women are going to get more violent.
 
I don't think this is entirely wrong but I think it has more to do with focus groups. It's also not limited to video games but movies and music as well.

Trying to appeal to everyone and not offend anyone has left us with a very milquetoast media landscape. Much of the consumer base is now a middle-aged middle-class with kids and they don't want anything that might spoil their children. I expected the Norse God of War to be a viking metal hellfest but instead it was just dad rock about parenting.
 
If Metroid came out today, Samus would be considered woke by you people.


This is the only truth for women leads in games:

Is she fuckable? then she's alright
Is she not? woke trash
 
The inclusion of girl bosses and stuff like that has never come across as trying to appeal to women, imo. It's people inserting their world views and attempting to educate the ignorant masses or, rather, make them accept that 'progressive' world view. It's why there's been a slew of games that under perform or fail - because they don't appeal to the majority of men or women. The whole 'appealing to women' has always seemed like bullshit to me due to this, just used as a scapegoat and defense against justified criticism.
 
There can be a lot of overlap. My wife's last run of games were all meat and potatoes like rdr2, dd2, and bg3. She doesn't do mobile or cozy games. Finds Nintendo games simple and dull much like I do.

She definitely approaches the games differently and her tastes are narrowed to almost exclusively fantasy settings. But it's not that different than anyone would play. She also has many female clients and a surprising number of the are much the same, regularly playing AAA hype games. Though a good amount of them also skew to indie and cozy games, too.
 

Men and women have different tastes and that's fine. The sooner the gaming industry realizes that, the better

100% agree. They should understand that it's ok games targeting mostly men and other games targeting mostly women. Same goes with games targeting LGTB or other groups.

And isn't ok to force stuff and specially remove iconic protagonists of iconic IPs because they want to appeal certain other different audience rejecting what the existing fans love.

It's not that 100% of the demoraphics of a game are going of certain group, but specially in certain game genres there's a huge difference and shoveling there an androginous ugly and angry lesbian as protagonist and uglyfy all female characters won't almost change them. If something, pretty likely may negatively affect sales.
 
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I don't believe in that so-called statistic that 50% of gamers are women. That's modern bullshit. Maybe if you include ultra-casual gaming or smartphone mini-games, sure, but when it comes to real gaming, no way. Just because there's been an explosion of female streamers on Twitch and YouTube doesn't mean we've reached parity. They're not stupid — they're mostly in it for the money. That said, yes, women and men fundamentally don't enjoy the same types of games. There will always be exceptions, of course, but that's an empirical fact.
 
They'll tell you it's because the patriarchy has conditioned women to like certain things — it's the same excuse used when explaining why there are fewer women in engineering and more in medicine. But the truth is, generally speaking, men and women do tend to seek different things in entertainment. Anyone who doesn't recognize this has probably had very little real interaction with women in their life.
 
If that is what guys assume women are like when gaming, maybe I really do have a dick and it's so small I can't see it.
Or maybe you're one of those women who likes action games. They still exist.
You have started a thread about what women want. You have one woman who bothers to respond and you are already mansplaining what category she belongs in? Tsk tsk.. It's impossible to have this discussion on GAF, with the atrociously low active female participation. Good luck getting anything useful out of it other than just more anecdotes and memes.

Fwiw, my wife (gasp, another action game lover) is also the exact opposite of everything you said. There are often 10% of most action games enjoyed by women. So let's not treat them as unicorns just because your girl fits the majority narrative. They are not anomalies. The base is too big to ignore. We can agree that the industry is stupid to gender swap and pander lazily, but that's how the industry has always reacted to emerging issues and patterns. Pander and check off boxes. I don't know the solution, but I'm not interested in hearing one from what would inevitably be a one-sided circle jerk here.

Love you Gaiff Gaiff but I'm afraid this is a lost cause! You had some eureka moment playing with your girl. That's cool and interesting. But don't propose solutions for the whole world of action games and women based on it. Especially, if it is just "let's just go back to what we always did"
 
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