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[reksveks]

The maths isn't just getting worse on this forum, it's also the business analysis.

 

[GreatnessRD]

All these aquistitions will lead to subscription services and no game ownership. It's delusional to think that PC gaming won't be effected by the consolidation of all the AAA devs. A complete oligopoly is being created. Sony/MS want every gamer paying $30 a month in perpetuity plus all of the microtransactions/dlc.

Their attitude will be if you don't like it, then stop gaming. And kids will grow up on it an not care.

It's all very anti-competitve.

The PC gaming community is not the same as the console one. The uproar would be crazy on the Master Race side. I think I can say with the upmost confidence that the PC side wouldn't settle for that tomfoolery. But we'll see.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I can’t wait until there is one system in about ten years and no competition left. It will be fun to see the steaming pile of dog shit devs will put out on it.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

Gotta be honest. I don’t give a shit about the rest of the western publishers. Things aren’t gonna tickle my undercarriage until JP publishers and devs start getting snatched up.

EA? Ubisoft? Who really cares?

The day Capcom or Square-Enix gets snatched, my "undercarriage" will be tickled.

 

[stranno]

And Nintendo in the same operation, why not.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't disagree with you, but I don't really buy that Sony is buying a team like this, based on a new IP that no one knows about. They make very, very sound purchases which tells me they are buying them for what they have done in the past, just as much as what they'll do in the future.

Destiny is just too be of an IP to pretend that isn't factoring here or something. So I'd say it has MORE to do with Destiny and its success, then simply a new IP. Sony is not spending 3 Billion based on a new fucking IP, they have never done something like that so I doubt that is the case here. It is not the say its not part of the deal as shit for all we know maybe Sony saw something megaton behind closed doors or something, but they are pulling the trigger for Destiny, they are more sure about that move cause the new IP. I think its both, but more so the established known value. Sony historically doesn't buy teams at this price, for nothing. Its usually based on something established that we know they do or something. (I think you are both right btw, simply to different degrees)

Yes in the short term. Destiny 3 will be happening soon! But this is also a long-term buy that I'm assuming Sony would like Bungie to be similar to Insomniac where they are making multiple games at once. Spend over $100 million on making Destiny 3 and make that a game that last 4 years as a GaaS game. But also have Bungie making their next FPS game that feels more like the original Halo or a COD competitor. And then have Bungie making a 3rd game which will be 100% VR only! That's the perfect way Bungie can become the fullest version of themselves imo.

Really? They own everything, they simply want Bungie to be who they are instead of buying them to turn them into another cog. They want Bungie to be Bungie 20 years from now, and PlayStation is no longer a console, so there’s no point in buying Bungie to sell consoles, PlayStation the brand sells consoles already.

WAT?! PlayStation isn't Microsoft bro. Sony still cares about selling hardware.

 

[adamsapple]

"On the horizon", huh. So I guess either Sony is buying Playground or MS is buying Guerrilla.

I ... no ... what ?

 

[yurinka]

Your future when Disney buys google, ms, and sony...

Non-Japanese companies can't buy Sony. The Japanese government doesn't allows it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

...And that's Valve. Valve is valued at around $12B which should make it easily affordable to Sony. Buying Valve would instantly give Sony the lion's share of the PC market and let them compete on two platforms the way MS currently does. It would boost their VR capabilities as well and they would have a portable system in the form of Steamdeck. Sony have been pretty cozy with Valve lately, porting many of it's exclusives to PC and putting them on Steam rather than creating their own launcher/service with PlayStation branding. Rumors also suggest that Valve is porting Half-Life Alyx to the PSVR2 as a launch title. It would be good for Sony but also for gamers who could hope to get PlayStation exclusives day one on PC and potential sequels like Half-Life 3 and Portal 3 that Valve haven't been interested in making despite heavy demand.

Some might suggest Epic as an alternative but Epic is more than double the price ($28B), has less market-share with its PC store and there could potentially be opposition to deal from a legal standpoint seeing as Unreal Engine is widely used by devs across all platforms. And while Fortnite would be a huge get, I feel like Valve IPs will have better value in the long run, as Fornite's popularity is sure to fade when the next big thing comes around as today's youth are very fickle-minded.

I certainly would welcome it. I think all these acquisitions by both MS and Sony are a good thing because I don't believe they are doing this so much in a bid to compete with each other but rather to fend off Apple, Google, Meta and Amazon who are eager took take over gaming and have the cash to buy whoever they want in order to do so. I also feel like many studios and publishers would much rather be bought by MS or Sony than by those other huge corporations that don't have the pedigree in gaming that MS and Sony have.

I was thinking about this, this morning.

It would make a lot of sense, but if something was in the works, I don't know if we see the PSVR2 announced.

But immediately getting PC market share as well as probably having exclusive access to PlayStation Studios titles going forward is probably the win there. If Sony is going to sell on PC, I can see them not wanting to pay royalties to do it. Valve also has some game development chops that have been left to dust over the years.

Epic makes more sense, but the problem with Epic is Tencent's already 40% ownership of the company.

There is a tipping point when this consolidation gets really bad though.

 

[Fbh]

Valve is 12 billion in the same way an rtx 3080 is $700.
Just because that's their net worth doesn't mean that's what they'd sell for. Bungie was supposedly worth 2 billion and Sony just paid 3,6 for it.
And that's assuming they want to be sold, which so far they don't seem to. And it's also assuming that if they ever want to cash out they'd go with Sony instead of another company that could easily outbid them.

 

[splattered]

No offense but you are out of your mind OP. No way that Valve would ever consider selling to Sony and probably not even Microsoft though that scenario is more likely because of Gabe's relationship with MS.

Sony is going to continue to purchase smaller studios and fill in the gaps on what's considered missing from their portfolio. That's it. There will most likely never be a huge purchase like Microsoft have done. It just isn't realistic or necessary.

 

[The Alien]

Why do I as a gamer care if Apple, Google or Amazon get into gaming? I would rather see that than consolidation. These companies are no more or less evil than Sony and Microsoft. I mean no more to them than a number and a dollar sign.

While I mostly agree, I'd say fear of the unknown.

I'd argue Google and Facebook are vastly more evil than either MS or Sony. Not that I trust Amazon much either. In the end, they all big, bad mega-corporations.

I also don't want to join an Apple or Chinese (TenCent) ecosystem to play games.

With Microsoft and Sony we know where those games would potentially live. Worst case scenario they'd be console/service exclusive. Best case little to no change other than ownership.

 

[Three]

Sony is gonna chip away at the "smaller" companies in the puny 1-6 billion range.

Bungie, Konami, and Capcom are next to go and they are going to sony.

the Bethesda acquisition made a ton of sense. I hate the Activision purchase because other than COD there's NOTHING. I don't wanna hear about the blizzard stuff. Activision has nothing.

if Sony gets Capcom or square that's MASSIVE IPS. If I had the money I would have used the 70 billion on the smaller companies who actually produce ips

Activision is about the BIG IPS rather than the little ones. Capcom, and Square have a lot of IPs but none are as big as Candy Crush and COD even if they are not to most gaffers tastes.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I hope these things stop, I really don’t see it being good for the industry going forward and definitely not for gamers

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[mckmas8808]

Madden’s dead

So ummm.....

On the software side, Madden NFL 22 debuted at No.1, having released on August 17, and instantly became the fourth best selling game of the year so far. NPD noted that it's the 22nd year in a row that Madden NFL takes the top of the charts during its launch month.

Madden NFL 22 takes No.1 in record August | US Monthly Charts

It was a record August for games in the US, with consumer spending reaching $4.4 billion, a 7% increase year-on-year, a…

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[hlm666]

Theyll probably announce this when psvr2 drops along with half life Alex 2 shadowdrop.

fuck it if that's the cost to get alyx 2 i'll head into the bathroom and start waxing my asshole now.

 

[Bernkastel]

The more realistic shockwave will come from Sony Group being acquired by somebody like Apple

I also don't want to join an Apple ecosystem to play games.

That would turn console wars into Mac vs PC.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If Valve is worth $12B (which I dont know how anyone can even come up with any number since it's privately owned), then the buyout price would probably be at least $15B. And that assumes Gabe wants to sell.

Do any of you guys really think Sony will buy Bungie for $3.6B and then another $15B+ for Valve?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This

A more realistic move from Sony would be Take2 (and that would require Sony to get quite a big loan)

I agree Take2 is probably the most realistic big purchase left.

Take2 would let Sony compete with EA or whoever owns them if it ever comes down to it?

 

[YuLY]

Valve is private, nice try peasants.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I doubt the deal won't pass but there are implications:

1. Microsoft is hands tied for a long time to do similar deals with other companies.
2. The deal might take longer than expected to be approved.
3. They might need to give up on using the deal to restrict the number of platforms Activision games will be released on.

We'll see what happens.

That's the one thing nobody will be able to force onto Microsoft. The people making this happen are human beings. It's been established that the work conditions and workload at Activision Blizzard was simply too much. The pace of releases, the crunch, the high turnover of employees that would lead, the difficulty in bringing new people in. Being able to guarantee specific things on certain platforms is a privilege, not a right, and the human beings doing the work will always come first.

 

[TheGodfather07]

This is the worst time ever for gaming.

 

[Ultra Donny]

No more acquisitions please!!
I have a bad feeling about all this and I don´t think it will benefit us as "gamers" in the long run.
I have no evidence of this but it just feels wrong somehow. Maybe I'm wrong (most likely), I hope so.

​

 

[JackSparr0w]

Anybody who thinks Valve is worth anything less than 100 billion shows a complete lack of awareness.

 

[darrylgorn]

A free market till it’s not free is the benchmark. A single entity cannot own so much as to stifle the free market for others.

Hmm.. You would need an intervening policy that would regulate the market then. Then it wouldn't be a free market anymore.

 

[Zannegan]

As a show of power, it wouldn't be very impressive. As a defensive move, there are far more important IPs they would want to protect. So... neither?

It's not exactly "business as usual," and it's surely at least partly in response to MS' Zenimax pickup, but it really does seem like they're more interested in Bungie's technology and expertise than they are their games or IP. Otherwise, why the multiplat stipulation?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Valve is private, nice try peasants.

Private doesn't mean it can't be purchased.

I think valve is an unlikely buy by Sony regardless.

The question has to be: do the assets make sense for the price and your strategy.

I think OP was confused with the fact that wiki states valve has 12 billion in equity as it being their "market value" but they aren't a publicly-traded company and thus don't have a market value.

 

[Pallas]

Sony would be at the bottom of those negotiations.

If Valve was actually for sale, the big boys would come out to play (Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Google, TenCent, Facebook).

Ya know, the actual competition Phil Spencer talked about and then the internet mocked him for. Yeah, those guys.

We are doomed if Tencent ever buys Valve. No one should touch Valve.

 

[Portugeezer]

Crazy day. A lot to unpack. I think we're all trying to make sense of this so let's put our business minds together.

Event: Sony buys Bungie but only under the strict stipulation that Bungie will still make multiplats.


Was this done defensively to prevent MS from getting there first?

Or is this a show of power saying we can throw billions around and intend to do it again..... Back off.

People saying this was not reactionary and the deal was being discussed for months I have two questions:

1. Why did they decide to pull the trigger now?
2. Did the Zenimax purchase initate this if not the Activision purchase?

1 and 2. Apparently these things take several months, so it's just coincidental timing, not reactionary to the AB purchase.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That's the one thing nobody will be able to force onto Microsoft. The people making this happen are human beings. It's been established that the work conditions and workload at Activision Blizzard was simply too much. The pace of releases, the crunch, the high turnover of employees that would lead, the difficulty in bringing new people in. Being able to guarantee specific things on certain platforms is a privilege, not a right, and the human beings doing the work will always come first.

They absolutely can impose that condition. It's on Microsoft to ensure the well-being of their employees to meet it. Developing for multiple platforms isn't the reason for crunch and you're going to have a damn hard time trying argue otherwise

 

[Three]

a) Valve isn't public as far as I know
b) antitrust would definitely be looking at that one.

 

[IDKFA]

Valve is 12B only? Why has nobody bought them yet?

Because it isn't monopoly.

 

[Farawayfromhell]

 

[CuNi]

The PC gaming community is not the same as the console one. The uproar would be crazy on the Master Race side. I think I can say with the upmost confidence that the PC side wouldn't settle for that tomfoolery. But we'll see.

You do realize that us PC gamers haven't owned games in like 10 years or more, right? If your Steam/EA/Whatever Acc gets banned your game library is done for.
On console, you could always just make a new Profile on the same console and throw in the disc and be up and running again. Can't do that on PC if the game isn't on GOG or DRM free.
So I don't know who you're trying to convince.

 

[octiny]

MS has a better chance if Valve ever wanted to sell. Not because of money but due to Gabe & MS's ongoing relationship.

And as others have noted, Valve is closer to 100 billion than it is "12" billion, if an offer was ever to be made. They essentially print money at this point. A little out of Sony's ball park.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Valve is 12B only? Why has nobody bought them yet?

Prolly because their value is more than 12B or they really don't want to sell.

Pretty sure Valve make stupid money each year.

 

[CeeJay]

I could see Disney buying EA. EA have a history with Star Wars games for a start and have teams that could be good for other Marvel, Star Wars and Pixar games. Also, the big sports contracts are due to finish soon and Disney are in a good place with ESPN to move forward. EA have got to be looking at their market value and how that will be affected in a post sports monopoly. It's not like a lot of their other games are doing amazingly and their price now has got to be as good as it's going to get.

EA is not going to be too desirable to any big corporation wanting to acquire it for making their games exclusive due to the heavy reliance and current value based on the sports licenses. Disney have a presence in TV subscription already and the next logical step is into games where they already have quite a bit of good IP from Lucas Arts in the back catalogue.

 

[reksveks]

Epic makes more sense, but the problem with Epic is Tencent's already 40% ownership of the company.

And

 

[BabyfaceRe]

Crazy day. A lot to unpack. I think we're all trying to make sense of this so let's put our business minds together.

Event: Sony buys Bungie but only under the strict stipulation that Bungie will still make multiplats.


Was this done defensively to prevent MS from getting there first?

Or is this a show of power saying we can throw billions around and intend to do it again..... Back off.

People saying this was not reactionary and the deal was being discussed for months I have two questions:

1. Why did they decide to pull the trigger now?
2. Did the Zenimax purchase initate this if not the Activision purchase?

How can it be seen as a show of power?

If your response to a 70 bil purchase is a 4bil purchase, I can assure you no1 see that a sign of how powerful you are. If anything it further proves that MS and Sony are not playing the same game.

Seems like a standard purchase for Sony. They like high quality studios that produce strong IP that has legs.

 

[jakinov]

It was for GaaS and profits. They said it themselves

 

[PhaseJump]

You do realize that us PC gamers haven't owned games in like 10 years or more, right? If your Steam/EA/Whatever Acc gets banned your game library is done for.
On console, you could always just make a new Profile on the same console and throw in the disc and be up and running again. Can't do that on PC if the game isn't on GOG or DRM free.
So I don't know who you're trying to convince.

DRM gets cracked. Piracy exists. On PC you still have options and alternatives.

On consoles, the hardware gets banned from the single network you have access to, if it's modified.

 

[Atrus]

I doubt that this particular scenario might cause an issue but the FTC did commit to being more aggressive with looking into large mergers for anti-competitive issues, specifically citing industry consolidation as anti-competitive.

Throw in a megacorp and it becomes a lightning rod for the FTC.

Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department Seek to Strengthen Enforcement Against Illegal Mergers

WASHINGTON – Today, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Justice Department’s Antitrust Division launched a joint public inquiry aimed at strengthening enforcement against illegal mergers.

www.ftc.gov

 

[BusierDonkey]

And

For once he's not lying, Tencent (who owns 48% of Epic) isn't a hardware platform company.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Relax, No ones buying Steam.

 

[DavJay]

Don’t know why everyone is so upset about valve evaluation. 12 billion is generous considering net worth was reportable 3 billion.

 

[ShaikhCroft]

Why would Sony do that after a $500 million partnership with Epic Games?

 

[Thirty7ven]

WAT?! PlayStation isn't Microsoft bro. Sony still cares about selling hardware.

PlayStation the hardware will continue to exist, but it’s clear for everyone to see and out from Sony’s mouth themselves that the goal is to expand beyond the console.

The point is to sell software, or subs, or MTX, that’s where the business is. The console is just a vehicle.

 

[DZ_b_EZ]

Mate, you guys are ridiculous with all the lame takes. These acquisitions are months in advance. There not competing with each other, they're getting ready for the future. This future involves digital streaming, with a massive catalog of content. The best way for the console manufacturers to do that is to buy up studios with really good IPs. Then they can serve a Netflix-like platter on future platforms. That's really it.

 

[Andodalf]

1. They definitely felt like pulling the trigger was a better idea after the acti deal. Many parties had talked to bungie but the price was seen as too steep before

2. They want to ensure there are premier FPS on their platform

3. They make a lot of money with GAAS

4. They can help your other studios make money as GAAS

5. You can make a destiny movie