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[jett]

I think that was probably the least of the problems in the development of the original Rising.

What I do find interesting about what Platinum Games has done is that they really took a lot of time and effort to recreate the expectations of fans based on what KojiPro had promised. Playing through Rising, it became very apparent to me that the team at Platinum studied the aspects of Raiden in MGS4, as well as all the promotional material for MGS Rising (the first trailer with real footage, the watermelon demo, etc), and created a game which played in a way where fans who have followed all that and built expectations based on would still be very pleased.

Raiden's moves in Rising are designed very closely to his movements in the MGS4 cutscenes, and several of the QTE actions are based on scenes from MGS4 too. The cutscene in the MGS Rising gameplay trailer was basically recreated in the sewer scenes in Chapter 2, the slow-mo cutting and the watermelon demo turned into Blade Mode, and even the short scene of Raiden cutting up the pillars to drop the entire ceiling on the enemies was applied to the design of a scene in Chapter 3.

The effort put into being faithful to the promise KojiPro failed to deliver with the original game is something I think Metal Gear fans should really respect Platinum for. It truly is above and beyond the call of duty for a 18 month dev cycle. Crazy stuff.

Yep I've said the same thing before. Platinum actually somehow delivered everything KojiPro promised except they actually put those mechanics in a real, working game. It's immensely impressive. I can only imagine what they can do on a next-gen MGR2 if they get a proper development schedule

 

[jett]

For the love of all that is holy, I s-ranked the lobby.

So i found this code in the back of the case and i got gray fox and fox blade. So i thought wow cool fox blade. Lets see what everyone is talkin about. 200,000 bucks for it? fuck how am i going to get that much cash?

By playing the game? I have a surplus of 500k with nothing to spend it on.

 

[ViviOggi]

VR missions.

VR missions aren't nearly as effective for getting BP as doing a few campaign missions.

 

[Korigama]

Yes, you can ninja run through it.

Wait, really? Huh, learn something new every day. Based on that, I would have to reevaluate whether it is actually possible for someone to attempt no damage/no upgrade runs on bosses even without Defensive Offense.

 

[TheSeks]

Controversial opinion time.

I think they should have taken out the slicing up enemies mechanic.

But you'll say 'wait! isn't that the crux of the whole game'?

Maybe, but I fell it slows the gameplay more than anything.
An also their engine clearly can't handle it, as the massive framerate drops attest.

You know, you don't have to Zandatsu/blade mode, right? If time slows down, give it a few seconds and then back to action.

 

[Noisepurge]

So i found this code in the back of the case and i got gray fox and fox blade. So i thought wow cool fox blade. Lets see what everyone is talkin about. 200,000 bucks for it? fuck how am i going to get that much cash?

you should be able to get that amount from playing a couple chapters of the campaign

 

[InfiniteNine]

You know, you don't have to Zandatsu/blade mode, right? If time slows down, give it a few seconds and then back to action.

Blade mode canceling lets you keep the combo flow going if you want.

 

[toastyToast]

I know we're getting Sam and that dog DLC but man, I'd love to play as Monsoon. Shit would be so cash

Maybe Mistral too

Sam is just more sword fighting in a sexier package

 

[Carbonox]

I know we're getting Sam and that dog DLC but man, I'd love to play as Monsoon. Shit would be so cash

Maybe Mistral too

Sam is just more sword fighting in a sexier package

Sam needs a Zorro costume and then I can fap to cutting bitches up as Antonio Banderas.

 

[Yurt]

Any news on the DLC? Can't fucking wait for Sam!

 

[C0unter]

Fuck Yeah!
This was a productive midterm break.

 

[Carbonox]

Is it possible to S rank Ray in the first fight on Revengeance even when taking damage/restarting after death? My goal is to obviously do him over without taking damage but if there is a way to wing the S rank anyway then that would help. Speed is obviously of the essence when taking the bugger down.

 

[Deitus]

Is it possible to S rank Ray in the first fight on Revengeance even when taking damage/restarting after death? My goal is to obviously do him over without taking damage but if there is a way to wing the S rank anyway then that would help. Speed is obviously of the essence when taking the bugger down.

Assuming you survive getting hit, and you can still beat it in under 3 minutes, yes. There are no other requirements for getting S rank on that battle, other than beating it in the time limit, though obviously no damage would help if you were too slow (in fact, you can S rank it by doing no damage, regardless of how long you take).

I've been using this guide for the requirements of each battle:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/960699-metal-gear-rising-revengeance/faqs/66269

Here's the details for that fight. Copied right from that FAQ, so the formatting is screwed up, but it's readable at least.

.——————————.————————.—————.
|RANK CATEGORY:|REQUIREMENTS:|SCORE:|
|---------------------|-------------|------|
|Time | 3:00 | 1000|
| | 3:30 | 800 |
| | 5:00 | 500 |
| | 6:00 | 200 |
| | 8:00 | 100 |
|---------------------|-------------|------|
|BP | --- | -- |
|Zandatsu | --- | -- |
|Longest Combo | --- | -- |
|Kills | --- | -- |
|No Damage | No Damage | 1000 |
'——————————'————————'—————'

.—————————.————.
|OVERALL SCORE:|RANK:|
|--------------|-----|
| 1000 | S |
| 800 | A |
| 500 | B |
| 200 | C |
| 0 | D |
'—————————'————'

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Controversial opinion time.

I think they should have taken out the slicing up enemies mechanic.

But you'll say 'wait! isn't that the crux of the whole game'?

Maybe, but I fell it slows the gameplay more than anything.
An also their engine clearly can't handle it, as the massive framerate drops attest.

At the very least they should remove the animation after taking the spine or make it real time and cancelable.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

At the very least they should remove the animation after taking the spine or make it real time and cancelable.

Bullseye!

 

[CambriaRising]

Controversial opinion time.

I think they should have taken out the slicing up enemies mechanic.

But you'll say 'wait! isn't that the crux of the whole game'?

Maybe, but I fell it slows the gameplay more than anything.
An also their engine clearly can't handle it, as the massive framerate drops attest.

You don't have to even use it most of the time. Only if you want to Zandatsu, and a couple of sequences. Which out of necessity, you might only have to do once per battle.

 

[gdt]

Does easy net you the same amount of BP as the other diff levels? I'm starved for BP and thinking about doing an easy mode run.

 

[Roto13]

I remember one of the many complaints about Platinum's reboot was that in the original your sword would cut anything and now because it got expanded and had a big combat system built around the sword mechanics it had just become a "generic hack and slash" since enemies didn't die in one hit.

Well if that's what you wanted here's your blade to do that. I can see where Kojima was coming from when criticizing the old tech demo. In comparison to everything Platinum managed to add to the game including what they preserved from the original, especially the blade mode which is fully intact, the old tech demo looks slow and lifeless in comparison. There's really nothing in that footage which Platinum hasn't managed to do but better.

Man, I watched the E3 2010 trailer last night and it looked so boring in comparison to what we got. Slowest ninja ever.

 

[Augemitbutter]

VR missions aren't nearly as effective for getting BP as doing a few campaign missions.

depends on what he wants to do. i got most BP by playing VR on the side.

 

[RoboPlato]

Looks like Raiden's HF Blade is a reality, complete with blue lighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0F-VVjqarZE#

 

[LiK]

Fuck Yeah!
This was a productive midterm break.

holy shit...i salute you

 

[enzo_gt]

In VR missions, is the only thing that is changed to default your health and energy amount? Are all moves/weapon upgrades/endurance/etc retained?

 

[Zen]

I think that was probably the least of the problems in the development of the original Rising.

What I do find interesting about what Platinum Games has done is that they really took a lot of time and effort to recreate the expectations of fans based on what KojiPro had promised. Playing through Rising, it became very apparent to me that the team at Platinum studied the aspects of Raiden in MGS4, as well as all the promotional material for MGS Rising (the first trailer with real footage, the watermelon demo, etc), and created a game which played in a way where fans who have followed all that and built expectations based on would still be very pleased.

Raiden's moves in Rising are designed very closely to his movements in the MGS4 cutscenes, and several of the QTE actions are based on scenes from MGS4 too. The cutscene in the MGS Rising gameplay trailer was basically recreated in the sewer scenes in Chapter 2, the slow-mo cutting and the watermelon demo turned into Blade Mode, and even the short scene of Raiden cutting up the pillars to drop the entire ceiling on the enemies was applied to the design of a scene in Chapter 3.

The effort put into being faithful to the promise KojiPro failed to deliver with the original game is something I think Metal Gear fans should really respect Platinum for. It truly is above and beyond the call of duty for a 18 month dev cycle. Crazy stuff.

This is true, but they didn't create this game from scratch in a year, they probably had a huge amount of art assets, storyboards, partially finished levels, animations, and enemy designs. It's easy to stay faithful when you're given all the KojiPro lego blocks to build something with. A lot of the things you're talking about here (moves being 1 for 1 from Cutscenes in MGS4 weren't platfinum, they were things the KojiPro team had been aiming for from the outset and already had 100% designed material around that was given to Platinum. I wouldn't be surprised if a few bits of original Rising level design were basically imported in either.

Platinum didn't make a full game from scratch in a year here, they had all the assets from the original development + KojiPro handling non gameplay elements for them to lighten the load.

 

[The Lamp]

This is true, but they didn't create this game from scratch in a year, they probably had a huge amount of art assets, storyboards, partially finished levels, animations, and enemy designs. It's easy to stay faithful when you're given all the KojiPro lego blocks to build something with.

I don't think it's easy to make a game like this regardless of what they were given. There's some mad talent going on at Platinum Games.

 

[duckroll]

This is true, but they didn't create this game from scratch in a year, they probably had a huge amount of art assets, storyboards, partially finished levels, animations, and enemy designs. It's easy to stay faithful when you're given all the KojiPro lego blocks to build something with.

I would say probably yes to the bolded, but probably no to everything else. We know that when Platinum took over they told KojiPro they weren't interested in the story and setting they had written. Everything was redone from scratch. None of the bosses, the story, the cutscenes, or the levels were anything from Kojima Production. Platinum has shared while a bit of production design from Rising, and it's pretty clear that the supporting cast, bosses, the human enemy designs, and the environments and stages were all conceptualized and designed by Platinum staff.

Rising is probably much more impressive in terms of efficiency than you think!

A lot of the things you're talking about here (moves being 1 for 1 from Cutscenes in MGS4 weren't platfinum, they were things the KojiPro team had been aiming for from the outset and already had 100% designed material around that was given to Platinum. I wouldn't be surprised if a few bits of original Rising level design were basically imported in either.

I don't think that's true at all. Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtM3PGyiQUc

The animations are completely different from anything in the current Rising. It's slower and more awkward. The moves Rising did in MGS4 were all cutscene stuff. Isthere any evidence at all that KojiPro intended to allow Raiden to actually play like that in their Rising? If there is, I don't see it in anything they've shown.

 

[Zen]

Just because the time period has changed does not mean they did not recycle art assets. The sewer was in both versions afterall, as was the gorilla enemy. Heck the fan asset in the sewer etc is exactly the same as was in the original reveal. They would not have just thrown away all the material they were given, especially on a tight deadline. The design for Raidens suit is exactly the same, so why throw out some of his completed animations that could be tweaked for 60fps? I think Kojima productions even mentioned at one point that the MGS4 guards you saw in the original gameplay reveal were placeholders; dollars to donuts the Rising version strongly resembled what we see in Revengance if not being a near 1:1 like the Gorilla.

I don't think it's easy to make a game like this regardless of what they were given. There's some mad talent going on at Platinum Games.

There's mad talent everywhere, not just platinum games. Yes they are very talented, but let's not oversell what they actually did here, or undersell that they were simultaneously on a tight dev schedule but had a smaller amount of things to focus on then in a typical schedule, already had much of the time intensive elements partially done for them, and had Kojima Production assisting them tremendously by handling non gameplay elements. There's a reason Rising was able to come out in a year with the switch + assist. A ton of assets could be transferred over anyway.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I actually think having all that work done by the previous team can also complicate things a lot for devs, when it becomes a game of "so much work went into this, but it clashes with our design choices so do we keep it or not?"

 

[duckroll]

Just because the time period has changed does not mean they did not recycle art assets. Heck the fan in the sewer etc is almost exactly the same as was in the original reveal. They would not have just thrown away all the material they were given, especially on a tight deadline. The design for Raidens suit is exactly the same, so why throw out some of his completed animations that could be tweaked for 60fps?

It's not just the time period that changed. We have seen various Shinkawa designs which people believe to be from Rising, exhibited at an art event before Platinum took over. Aside from Raiden himself none of them made it in at all. On the other hand:

http://platinumgames.com/2012/12/27/staying-true-to-metal-gear/
http://platinumgames.com/2013/01/11/ruminations-on-character-design/
http://platinumgames.com/2013/02/15/concept-art-for-metal-gear-rising/
http://platinumgames.com/2013/02/27/risings-graphics-and-stages/

We have tons of actual evidence to show that the majority of actual concept design and assets used in the actual game were done by Platinum. I'm sure there are some things they took from KojiPro, but as you said, let's not undersell what they did here. They didn't just take a neatly packaged KojiPro asset bundle and go off to make a game with it. There was a ton of work to do for them too.

 

[Zen]

It's easy to point to characters and such, but it's even easier to point out the enemy types like I just did, or the sewer environment. There's large swaths of things taken from the KojiPro work. I never mentioned characters since I was 90% sure they changed with the new character designer and something like animation is just a guess but they easily could have discarded whatever Kojima Productions had in that department.

I actually think having all that work done by the previous team can also complicate things a lot for devs, when it becomes a game of "so much work went into this, but it clashes with our design choices so do we keep it or not?"

EZPZ when you can just pick and choose what to keep though. It wouldn't have been more complicated had they been recreating the same story, but they switched time periods. Then it boils down to "Do we still want to use a sewer environment?". Even if you recreate textures, doubtful they did this wholesale, having a baseline to work from saves huge amounts of time.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I question how much of the previous "version" (it is hard to call what was most likely little more than a tech demo a version of this game) was even complete. I doubt Platinum re-used many/any assets from that thing, they probably only used it for reference (for their artists to recreate to the specifications they need).

 

[Zen]

Asset creation wasn't the problem with Rising, gameplay was. Considering how long it had been in development, they probably had a fair bit of assets done, just no workable gameplay.

It sort of looks like, looking back at the Rising trailer, that Kojima Productions didn't have the blade cut everything in one slash. When he cut through the pillars there was no sound or additional lightning. But when he was 1 slashing the MGS4 enemies, there was. Maybe the game still had a ripper mode of sorts where you could blade mode or just slash away and cut enemies.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think anyone questions that KojiPro assisted Platinum (after all this is a Metal Gear game, and they approached Platinum), but I find saying stuff like "they already had much of the time intensive elements partially done for them" to be really questionable. It simply doesn't look like it's true.

This is a 5-10 hour action game with 8 chapters (and only 6 of those are unique complete stages), about 13 characters in speaking roles, and maybe two dozen enemies. Of these, we know for a fact that most of it is Platinum's work - from art to modeling to implementation and game design.

 

[Zen]

Like we see with the sewer and at least one enemy in the game though, a lot of the material could have been co-opted (even if Platinum did a recreation themselves) and not having to wait for the art side on everything, having that kind of baseline, is a considerable time saver. That's my point really, not that they just Frankenstein something without putting in their own work to it.

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

Pretty sure even the artwork and designs are done by p* from scratch. On their blog, there is this guy who left p* and freelances now, he took over right before leaving. And worked 6-8 month on the enemy designs etc.
The Mastiffs are probably the only design they left in from kojipro.

 

[Zen]

Then the guerrilla is a huge coincidence.

 

[duckroll]

Like we see with the sewer and at least one enemy in the game though, a lot of the material could have been co-opted (even if Platinum did a recreation themselves) and not having to wait for the art side on everything is a considerable time saver. That's my point really, not that they just Frankenstein something without putting in their own work to it.

Where is the material which is being co-opted? The mechanical designs are all Takayuki Yanase's work including stuff he did for the original Rising, we know that. But beyond that? None of the character designs were co-opted. Unless you're saying their designers were lying about having to do several reiterations just to get a feel of what they want to create. That's the complete opposite of "not having to wait for the art side". The environment designs used for the actual stages? They went through several passes to try out different styles too. It's clear they didn't have much usable finished content if any at all to speed the process up by any meaningful way.

Pretty sure even the artwork and designs are done by p* from scratch. On their blog, there is this guy who left p* and freelances now, he took over right before leaving. And worked 6-8 month on the enemy designs etc.
The Mastiffs are probably the only design they left in from kojipro.

Then the guerrilla is a huge coincidence.

Nah, the mechanical stuff are all Yanase. He's a freelance mecha designer who was contracted by KojiPro on Rising since the start. So those are definitely stuff which they carried over.

You can see some of his designs here (SPOILER!): http://i.imgur.com/xV89w3e.jpg

Probably all the mechanical enemies were his.

 

[Big Papa Husker]

So I have a 25% off Gamestop coupon that expires today and I want to use it. I've heard good things about this game. Should I go buy it?

 

[demidar]

Spent an hour and a half getting a No Damage S rank on Monsoon, find out I missed "1" encounter and that plummeted my chapter score to A.

 

[The Lamp]

So I have a 25% off Gamestop coupon that expires today and I want to use it. I've heard good things about this game. Should I go buy it?

As long as you don't mind the apparently short-ish length (5-10 hours) then yes, definitely, absolutely, if you like action games.

 

[Big Papa Husker]

As long as you don't mind the apparently short-ish length (5-10 hours) then yes, definitely, absolutely, if you like action games.

Well I guess I'm heading to Gamestop!

 

[The Lamp]

Well I guess I'm heading to Gamestop!

I look forward to hearing your impressions! During the first hour of gameplay, my jaw was on the floor. I'm looking forward to playing more tonight.

 

[Korigama]

Like we see with the sewer and at least one enemy in the game though, a lot of the material could have been co-opted (even if Platinum did a recreation themselves) and not having to wait for the art side on everything, having that kind of baseline, is a considerable time saver. That's my point really, not that they just Frankenstein something without putting in their own work to it.

Pretty sure you mean the refinery as the idea that carried over from the original Rising and not the sewer (it was the industrial setting with the spinning fans, not the sewer).

 

[Papercuts]

Wait, really? Huh, learn something new every day. Based on that, I would have to reevaluate whether it is actually possible for someone to attempt no damage/no upgrade runs on bosses even without Defensive Offense.

I'm not sure all of his moves can be consistently dodged without it. I've tried ninja running when the boss slams the hand down and it sometimes dodges but doesn't always, it's much easier with defensive offsense. But yeah, the double slide can be ninja ran through.

 

[nailbombxx]

Every game must have a sewer level.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Every game must have a sewer level.

Well it was the ninja turtles level. TURTLE POWER!

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Quick question as I'm about to order this for PS3: Have any of you tried playing it on a 3DTV? How does it work?

 

[Shadow2222]

Quick question as I'm about to order this for PS3: Have any of you tried playing it on a 3DTV? How does it work?

They got rid of the 3D capability when Platinum games took over

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

They got rid of the 3D capability when Platinum games took over

Fuck, so many parts of this would be amazing in 3D.

 

[Retro_]

Wait, really? Huh, learn something new every day. Based on that, I would have to reevaluate whether it is actually possible for someone to attempt no damage/no upgrade runs on bosses even without Defensive Offense.

It is

 

[haikira]

What framerate drop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDwouY-PlkA

They're hard to perceive most of the time, I think. But the game does drop up to 20 from its target, quite often.