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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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Darkpen said:
satisfying =/= moar believable.

Are you going to seriously show me the death sequences for all of the bosses, and tell me that's believable? Are you going to seriously tell me that a dude who shoots bees out of his mouth is believable? Are you seriously convinced that when a great warrior dies in a flowerbed, all of the flowers turn red, which just happens to symbolize the scene?

The game is riddled with strong symbolism and outright silliness. It is not more believable than MGS4; in fact, its been argued that MGS3 is more like a fanciful interpretation of Big Boss's mission than it is a realistic one.

Hell, I think I should spoilertag that, but I'm not going to. MGS4's CQC conversation w/ Otacon says hi.

What? I said nothing about believe ability. Why did you bring it up? We are talking about a series that lead us to believe a soul took over another persons body through and arm planstrant for goodness sakes.

I was talking about closure. MGS3, being a prequel wasnt chained by all the shit that luckily MGS4 mostly ironed out. It was its own complete story that gave tidbits to the future of the series.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Man I beat Big Boss hard with one kill... Spoiler is Screaming Mantis related.

Do it count as a kill if I
shoot the mantis doll with a lethal weapon? While I'm at it, do it also count if I shoot a frog which is under mantis' control with a lethal weapon? I guess the frogs were controlled with sorrow, along with Meril though. I remember seeing them drop when I shot toy Mantis.

That darn last fight was hard in this mode. Now I get to do it again. :(
 

Jtrizzy

Member
I'm really having trouble with two things in this game.

1. I can't consistently hold people up. It works some but not often enough. Often times I'll stand behind him and nothing happens, then he'll turn around and be alerted. When I do, I can't get the pat down option to come up either, which is something I really want to do.

2. The CQC where you climb on top of the guy. Whenever I try CQC from the crouch walk, it takes me to the throat slit option.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Zyzyxxz

Member
recently beat the game and I say story wise here is how I sum it up.

4 > 2 > 3 > PO > 1

As for gameplay I thought each succeeding game was better than the last except for PO.
 

Jackl

Member
Minor-gripe minor spoiler addendum:
Only 2 permanent Codec channels? >.<

I know some people didn't like codec convos but I always loved calling up someone and chatting them up about a location, objective or object. Learning more about them, and possibly the plot sublines. Seems like that bit of gameplay has been phased out though. Boourns.
 
Jtrizzy said:
I'm really having trouble with two things in this game.

1. I can't consistently hold people up. It works some but not often enough. When I do, I can't get the pat down option to come up.

Sneak up behind someone, and when you get close enough, press L1 to draw your weapon. Snake will say "freeze!" Now quickly walk to the front of the guy and press triangle to search him.

2. The CQC where you climb on top of the guy. Whenever I try CQC from the crouch walk, it takes me to the throat slit option.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Grab the enemy in CQC and get into the crouched position. Now, just flick the left stick in any direction and tap R1. Snake should roll on top of the guy.
 

Ceb

Member
Crazymoogle said:
Yeah, I completely agree.
One moment, it's Raiden cutting his arm off, holding off a superfortress and then poetically bleeding out in the water. Basically goes out in a similar manner to Cyborg Ninja from MGS1, *AND* he already nearly died once in the game already so you have more reason than ever to assume he's dead. (And be pissed that he wasn't playable, but that's neither here nor there.)

Next scene:
<Otacon> So Raiden is going to make it, huh?
<Snake> yeah.

WTF? :lol :lol :lol I can't help but laugh. It pretty much ripped all of the suspense out of the final stage because let's be honest, none of them were closer to death than Raiden was previously. I mean, two arms down and Raiden was *still* in better shape, throwing down lightning. Meryl meanwhile has mr. profuse bladder and his 50 caliber 100% accuracy gun. Pirates 3 indeed.

Still an awesome game, of course.

Yeah,
I guess it's hard to complain about Raiden surviving, but they totally managed to botch up what would otherwise have remained a powerful and memorable scene. It was so sad to see Raiden finally fess up and yell out a desperate "ROSE" in his "dying moment".
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.
 
Dr.Hadji said:
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.

Cherish those first 2 chapters because the rest of the game isnt anywhere near as interesting. Infact, its gets more linear.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.
 

Cartman86

Banned
Dr.Hadji said:
Just finished
Act 3
, where the heck did my awesome gameplay go?!!!!!! Please don't tell me that the awesome stuff I was doing previously is gone for good. And whats up with the bosses thus far. They don't raise over the standard of previous bosses in the series. Not better or worse on average, just somewhere in between (which feels odd when most everything else sails above previous games).

I remember Shane complaining about Lost Odessy, saying that it reading story was a woeful misuse of the medium. I wonder what he has to say about MGS4 talking the story to you with (mostly) worthless high tec splash pages moving around the screen. For a game with so many cut-scenes, Kojima doesn't show you a lot of things.

MGS has done that before with the splash pages. During the "information" heavy scenes they do it quite often. Considering the best stuff about MGS4 is in the regular cutscenes its not an issue. The problem with Lost Odyssey was that the best writing, best everything about the story was in those reading sections.
 
My views as a Metal Gear newcomer upon completion of this awe-inspiring "game". Kojima's thoughts, the controls for those not used to the series, the meaning of Snakes existence as a soldier and more. In a nutshell, Metal Gear as defined by one not used to the series.

Calling to the night. Metal Gear Saga.

I just am at a loss for words to convey my feelings for this game. I’ve watched movies such as The Shawshank Redemption which impacted me greatly emotionally and made me sit back and think “What did I just watch?”, “What did those characters represent?”, “What did the director want me to take from this?”. I’ve read books, listened to music, which all conveyed the same powerful and thought provoking images that have lasted with me ever since.

Never did I think a game would do the same for me until I finished the story of this one, old, battle worn snake.


I’m a Metal Gear newcomer, having only previously played MGS2 for about 30 minutes on my neighbors PS2 years ago. I didn’t have any interest in the series and really didn’t understand the big hype around it and MGS4. It was those trailers shown of the game that caught my attention. The trailers that shows a broken old man struggling across a battlefield to finally make amends for the actions of his past. A past he had no control over from the beginning.

Some people argue that the Metal Gear story is convoluted and far fetched due to rather extreme abilities and situations that occur within the history of the series. I too believed the same, until after playing subsequent acts of MGS4 that I finally got it: This isn’t supposed to be a real life game, it is Kojima’s take on the world we live in, the what if’s of tomorrow and truly gives us an in-depth look into his thoughts on what war really is, the soul of war, peace, love, hate, life, death, afterlife...

Through all of the previous games players have controlled Solid Snake and taken orders without question. Soldier. There is no such thing as “free thinking” or personal choice. A solider must obey orders given to him or her by their superiors in darkness, an ever extending branch of ideologies, and politics. No where is this more evident than in the 4th installment where it’s revealed that Snake himself a spy of spies, soldier of soldiers himself was in the dark about what his previous missions were really about and the forces behind those commands.

It is here that Snake utters the line: “I’m no hero, never was. I’m just an old killer, hired to do some wet work.” To who was he a hero? Who were the people congratulating him for his sacrifices? Snake understands at the moment what it means to be a soldier, to not have control over your own destiny...to not create your own destiny, but to rather sacrifice for the ambitions of others. In the end, he was nothing more than a tool. Created via cloning to mimic Big Boss and become another weapon, his fate it seems, was sealed from the moment the forces around him laid out the path of his existence in the lab all those years ago. To be a killer and enforce their laws to further their goals. There was no running away or challenging of his fate, he was brought up and trained to be an enforcer of the law of others, the key in the lock.

Suffering from accelerated aging, contaminated with FOXDIE, and an overpowering threat in the form of Liquid Snake, The Patriots and all the factions in between, Snake’s fate is sealed. He continues to smoke in ever increasing amounts as test after test reveals that his life has, and was created and dated to expire at a set time. No longer was it about him just “surviving” all the forces out to extinguish him, but rather to finally create his own orders and commands. As Liquid attempted to seize control of the world itself, Snake aspired to finally seize control of his own destiny. If he was to die anyway, he’d put every last bit of his soul into the fight. As he put it himself: “Survival...is just survival” There has to be a purpose to the life given to you a reason to exist...the same reason The Patriots therefore placed their will on.

To change. Like a Snake.

While the story itself is very well thought out in terms of tying up loose ends and forcing players to sit back after finishing the title and digest all that they’ve seen. The game play has been criticized as being cumbersome and or “clunky”. I went into this game expecting the worst and horribly complicated controls, but within 1 hour of playing I’d already mastered CQC(Close Quarter Combat) and able to engage in stealth as well as fire fights when the need arose.
The simplicity of the controls and the wide range of choices given to the player to accomplish their task almost makes it feel like a different game every time you play, no longer are you relegated to once control scheme to move ahead. A simple press of the L1 button allows Snake to draw his weapon, using the right analog stick allows him to direct fire and tapping or holding R1 fires the equipped weapon. I was apprehensible about it at first and was literally scared and spent most of my time crawling on the ground while avoiding conflict altogether as it can get very hectic at times. But within the hour I had mastered the controls and was able to move from point A to B silently and without being detected, holding enemy forces up to steal ammo, weapons, and other items. All of this was made even simpler by the OctoCamo, a device which automatically copied the surroundings Snake was near to in order to hide himself for detection.
It made me smile. I really felt like an experienced soldier.

Pushing onward I ended up in another continent and once again was thrust into the thick of battle against my will, and Snakes. Forced to fight a traumatized innocent vicitim of war who utilized a robotic suit similar to Snakes OctoCamo which also allowed her to blend in with the surroundings made for a very startling and on your toes battle. Upon her defeat I(Snake) received a call from a man named Drebin who pursued the art of weapon laundering as just another means to make money in the war economy of the game. Following a short dialogue between Snake and Drebin, he explained to Snake about the tragedies of the woman’s past and thanked Snake for having freed her of the terrors in her mind.
I pushed forward and in a surprise call met up with Raiden. An ally of Snakes who’d gone missing since the last game. He offered me advice on locating the kidnapped Naomi Hunter who had been taken by the PMC shortly before the aforementioned battle between Snake and Laughing Octopus.

Follow the tracks.

And so I did. I fired up my night vision via the Solid Eye system which allowed Snake to view data on targets, locate items easier and much more. I wandered around for about an hour following the tracks in the dirt that branched off every once in a while. And then I heard it. Naomi was calling for me in a nearby cabin. I was gleeful and congratulated myself for finding her so fast, to my utter shock and amusement, it was not Naomi calling me, but rather a taped message designed to lure me into the cabin where I was ambushed by a few enemy troops. Making short work of them I regained my original location and wondered why the steps stopped there. I got a call from Raiden. “Don’t just look at the footprints, but also the size, depth, shape. Think. Are they consistent with her weight?, size?” In my rush to find her, I’d totally overlooked the fact that the shoe size had changed drastically at a fork in the road before.
And I laughed.


The game was filled with all these little things and so much more that I and others have yet to still discover, of that I am sure. It’s not just the fact that the game is filled with rich dialogue and detailed cut scenes that move the story onward, but the little things that really make it seem like you’re watching a movie or some grand story taking place. In most other games you can quickly break away from the immersion after a while as you begin to repeat the same tasks with an ever static environment.
Guns of the Patriots feels alive. It’s a game that truly pushed the term “organic game play” as situations can change on the dime and segments that really force you to think or have extreme patience to succeed push you to your limits. There are times where it’s pitch black, others where it is bright, grass, water, snow, fire, cold, heat. And most importantly of all, these are just set pieces, they all affect your game play and Snake.

There are times where I’d feel bad for him and for example give him some instant hot noodles to warm him up, or use a med pac to relive his aches and pains. You really connect with the character and at times it goes beyond just looking at him and the others as 3D figures, but rather living breathing people. When he coughed and dryly asked for a smoke, I felt tears in my eyes, when he was beaten and bruised I felt vengeful, when he was healthy and happy I felt happy as well.

For a time the “uncanny valley” effect has been said to lead to the halt of graphics in games and or create unsettling games. But MGS4 has proven that it’s not just about computing power that makes a game attractive, but also EMOTIONS and the ability to create an attachment between players and the characters that inhabit that virtual world. It’s a game that grows with you and doesn’t just guide you along.
No graphics could make me feel such a wide variation of emotions as I and Snake both went down this long road. If Kojima and his team can continue to make such powerful and landscape changing games such as these, I don’t care what they make. People may argue about story, graphics, sound and so forth for years to come, we may compare games across the board in sales or flash. But this is truly a breakout game for the industry. Nowhere else have such emotions been recreated and so masterfully as with Metal gear Solid 4: Guns of The Patriots.

The best is yet to come indeed.
 

boco77

Banned
Just reached
Act 5
I have a few questions up to this point of the story. I might have missed some details and explanations in cutscenes as there was so much to take in, please dont spoil if its explained later on from the point I'm at. Please dont read these spoilers if you havent finished it.

Why did Naomi go back to Liquid and co after she got the data for Outer Haven from them? Why not just stay with Snake and the others?

Was she in love with Vamp as she was holding him at the end of act four.

So she was like Vamp but who made her like this? Herself? When did she become like him in the series?

Where did this Major Zero come from being bad all of a sudden? He was your friend in MGS3 and briefed you but since when was he a member of the Patriots, how come noone knew?

So Liquid's goal is to amass and control a huge army and weapons and rule over the planet with it? What for exactly? Power? Greed? Also he wants to take the control out of the Patriot's hands so I guess he isn't all bad?

What was Big Boss trying to stop with Major Zero? I didn't really get this when it was explained earlier on in the game.

The Boss was basically being used by the Patriots in MGS3 to acquire the philosophers legacy? Was she aware that they controlled all information? She fought for a lost cause?

What was Mei Ling saying that if you just take care of Liquid it wont be enough? Did it mean the control will still be in the Patriots hands and nothing will have changed?

Lastly, I'm still unclear what is killing Snake? Is it just his rapid ageing process due to him being a clone or is it Foxdie adapting and going to kill him?
 

LukeSmith

Member
Late to the party:
Finished Act 1 tonight, working my way through Act 2.

I absolutely love this game. As a longtime MGS fan it is incredible fan service and the gameplay is light years beyond where its predecessors were.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
I just finished Act 2 and while I'm loving most of the gameplay, in some ways, this is one of the most frustrating MGS games for me. There are so many areas that seem designed to be somewhat wide open, but are actually extremely linear and overly designed to be so in a restrictive, annoying way. There have been several instances where I've died because of endlessly respawning enemies. I know that MGS games have a hard learning curve, I died a ton adjusting to MGS3's new style, so I'm willing to forgive a little, but respawning enemies is a personal pet peeve in games. I'm sure the 2nd time I play through the game it won't be an issue, since I know what areas I have to run through, and which I can stay and clear, but at the moment it's annoying.

For example, in one part where the map showed that you had to go behind a building, I decided to go along the left side. I was easily overwhelmed by respawning enemies which had their spawn points right along the left side of the building and I had to double back and start over and go along the right side, the side that you really are forced to do.

There have been quite a few other parts that seem much more frustrating than they need to be. At one point in the game you have to run away from some Gekkos, and Otacon tells you to avoid the Gekkos and just run for it, but that's pretty damn hard to do when one Gekko completely blocks the exit and is able to one hit kill you. *cue dying 5 times.* As well, inexplicably there is a rocket launcher hidden in the level, but firing a rocket at the Gekko will cause the rocket to swerve and miss automatically. Why even hide the rocket launcher in the level if it's impossible to use it?

Another annoying part was right after the first boss, when you're tracking down
Naomi
. You need to
follow her footprints
and it's cool that you're not allowed to use the solid eye at certain parts, but it's not very cool how
vague and hard to see the footprints are
. You basically have to
walk around everywhere and let Otacon tell you if you're close or not.

One last annoyance: Have smoke grenades been screwed up or something? I remember using smoke grenades in MGS3 all the time so that I could run up to guards, slam them into the ground without them seeing me, and then run out. Playing MGS4 a moment ago, I was in a situation where there were 3 guards looking over another guard that I had put to sleep and I decided I'd throw a smoke grenade and CQC all of them. Unfortunately when I ran into the smoke cloud, Snake just started coughing and I lost control. Then the guards saw me and did me in. I realize Snake is old but this sucks. What the hell am I supposed to use smoke grenades for now?

I'm still loving the game, but I'm annoyed by the poor choices in the switch from MGS3 to MGS4. I'm sure the next time I play through MGS4 I won't mind them, but at the moment the learning curve is steep and bothersome.
 
CrushDance said:
My views as a Metal Gear newcomer upon completion of this awe-inspiring "game". Kojima's thoughts, the controls for those not used to the series, the meaning of Snakes existence as a soldier and more. In a nutshell, Metal Gear as defined by one not used to the series.

Calling to the night. Metal Gear Saga.

I just am at a loss for words to convey my feelings for this game. I’ve watched movies such as The Shawshank Redemption which impacted me greatly emotionally and made me sit back and think “What did I just watch?”, “What did those characters represent?”, “What did the director want me to take from this?”. I’ve read books, listened to music, which all conveyed the same powerful and thought provoking images that have lasted with me ever since.

Never did I think a game would do the same for me until I finished the story of this one, old, battle worn snake.


I’m a Metal Gear newcomer, having only previously played MGS2 for about 30 minutes on my neighbors PS2 years ago. I didn’t have any interest in the series and really didn’t understand the big hype around it and MGS4. It was those trailers shown of the game that caught my attention. The trailers that shows a broken old man struggling across a battlefield to finally make amends for the actions of his past. A past he had no control over from the beginning.

Some people argue that the Metal Gear story is convoluted and far fetched due to rather extreme abilities and situations that occur within the history of the series. I too believed the same, until after playing subsequent acts of MGS4 that I finally got it: This isn’t supposed to be a real life game, it is Kojima’s take on the world we live in, the what if’s of tomorrow and truly gives us an in-depth look into his thoughts on what war really is, the soul of war, peace, love, hate, life, death, afterlife...

Through all of the previous games players have controlled Solid Snake and taken orders without question. Soldier. There is no such thing as “free thinking” or personal choice. A solider must obey orders given to him or her by their superiors in darkness, an ever extending branch of ideologies, and politics. No where is this more evident than in the 4th installment where it’s revealed that Snake himself a spy of spies, soldier of soldiers himself was in the dark about what his previous missions were really about and the forces behind those commands.

It is here that Snake utters the line: “I’m no hero, never was. I’m just an old killer, hired to do some wet work.” To who was he a hero? Who were the people congratulating him for his sacrifices? Snake understands at the moment what it means to be a soldier, to not have control over your own destiny...to not create your own destiny, but to rather sacrifice for the ambitions of others. In the end, he was nothing more than a tool. Created via cloning to mimic Big Boss and become another weapon, his fate it seems, was sealed from the moment the forces around him laid out the path of his existence in the lab all those years ago. To be a killer and enforce their laws to further their goals. There was no running away or challenging of his fate, he was brought up and trained to be an enforcer of the law of others, the key in the lock.

Suffering from accelerated aging, contaminated with FOXDIE, and an overpowering threat in the form of Liquid Snake, The Patriots and all the factions in between, Snake’s fate is sealed. He continues to smoke in ever increasing amounts as test after test reveals that his life has, and was created and dated to expire at a set time. No longer was it about him just “surviving” all the forces out to extinguish him, but rather to finally create his own orders and commands. As Liquid attempted to seize control of the world itself, Snake aspired to finally seize control of his own destiny. If he was to die anyway, he’d put every last bit of his soul into the fight. As he put it himself: “Survival...is just survival” There has to be a purpose to the life given to you a reason to exist...the same reason The Patriots therefore placed their will on.

To change. Like a Snake.

While the story itself is very well thought out in terms of tying up loose ends and forcing players to sit back after finishing the title and digest all that they’ve seen. The game play has been criticized as being cumbersome and or “clunky”. I went into this game expecting the worst and horribly complicated controls, but within 1 hour of playing I’d already mastered CQC(Close Quarter Combat) and able to engage in stealth as well as fire fights when the need arose.
The simplicity of the controls and the wide range of choices given to the player to accomplish their task almost makes it feel like a different game every time you play, no longer are you relegated to once control scheme to move ahead. A simple press of the L1 button allows Snake to draw his weapon, using the right analog stick allows him to direct fire and tapping or holding R1 fires the equipped weapon. I was apprehensible about it at first and was literally scared and spent most of my time crawling on the ground while avoiding conflict altogether as it can get very hectic at times. But within the hour I had mastered the controls and was able to move from point A to B silently and without being detected, holding enemy forces up to steal ammo, weapons, and other items. All of this was made even simpler by the OctoCamo, a device which automatically copied the surroundings Snake was near to in order to hide himself for detection.
It made me smile. I really felt like an experienced soldier.

Pushing onward I ended up in another continent and once again was thrust into the thick of battle against my will, and Snakes. Forced to fight a traumatized innocent vicitim of war who utilized a robotic suit similar to Snakes OctoCamo which also allowed her to blend in with the surroundings made for a very startling and on your toes battle. Upon her defeat I(Snake) received a call from a man named Drebin who pursued the art of weapon laundering as just another means to make money in the war economy of the game. Following a short dialogue between Snake and Drebin, he explained to Snake about the tragedies of the woman’s past and thanked Snake for having freed her of the terrors in her mind.
I pushed forward and in a surprise call met up with Raiden. An ally of Snakes who’d gone missing since the last game. He offered me advice on locating the kidnapped Naomi Hunter who had been taken by the PMC shortly before the aforementioned battle between Snake and Laughing Octopus.

Follow the tracks.

And so I did. I fired up my night vision via the Solid Eye system which allowed Snake to view data on targets, locate items easier and much more. I wandered around for about an hour following the tracks in the dirt that branched off every once in a while. And then I heard it. Naomi was calling for me in a nearby cabin. I was gleeful and congratulated myself for finding her so fast, to my utter shock and amusement, it was not Naomi calling me, but rather a taped message designed to lure me into the cabin where I was ambushed by a few enemy troops. Making short work of them I regained my original location and wondered why the steps stopped there. I got a call from Raiden. “Don’t just look at the footprints, but also the size, depth, shape. Think. Are they consistent with her weight?, size?” In my rush to find her, I’d totally overlooked the fact that the shoe size had changed drastically at a fork in the road before.
And I laughed.


The game was filled with all these little things and so much more that I and others have yet to still discover, of that I am sure. It’s not just the fact that the game is filled with rich dialogue and detailed cut scenes that move the story onward, but the little things that really make it seem like you’re watching a movie or some grand story taking place. In most other games you can quickly break away from the immersion after a while as you begin to repeat the same tasks with an ever static environment.
Guns of the Patriots feels alive. It’s a game that truly pushed the term “organic game play” as situations can change on the dime and segments that really force you to think or have extreme patience to succeed push you to your limits. There are times where it’s pitch black, others where it is bright, grass, water, snow, fire, cold, heat. And most importantly of all, these are just set pieces, they all affect your game play and Snake.

There are times where I’d feel bad for him and for example give him some instant hot noodles to warm him up, or use a med pac to relive his aches and pains. You really connect with the character and at times it goes beyond just looking at him and the others as 3D figures, but rather living breathing people. When he coughed and dryly asked for a smoke, I felt tears in my eyes, when he was beaten and bruised I felt vengeful, when he was healthy and happy I felt happy as well.

For a time the “uncanny valley” effect has been said to lead to the halt of graphics in games and or create unsettling games. But MGS4 has proven that it’s not just about computing power that makes a game attractive, but also EMOTIONS and the ability to create an attachment between players and the characters that inhabit that virtual world. It’s a game that grows with you and doesn’t just guide you along.
No graphics could make me feel such a wide variation of emotions as I and Snake both went down this long road. If Kojima and his team can continue to make such powerful and landscape changing games such as these, I don’t care what they make. People may argue about story, graphics, sound and so forth for years to come, we may compare games across the board in sales or flash. But this is truly a breakout game for the industry. Nowhere else have such emotions been recreated and so masterfully as with Metal gear Solid 4: Guns of The Patriots.

The best is yet to come indeed.
nice. i agree.
 
boco77 said:
Just reached
Act 5
I have a few questions up to this point of the story. I might have missed some details and explanations in cutscenes as there was so much to take in, please dont spoil if its explained later on from the point I'm at. Please dont read these spoilers if you havent finished it.

Why did Naomi go back to Liquid and co after she got the data for Outer Haven from them? Why not just stay with Snake and the others?

Was she in love with Vamp as she was holding him at the end of act four.

So she was like Vamp but who made her like this? Herself? When did she become like him in the series?

Where did this Major Zero come from being bad all of a sudden? He was your friend in MGS3 and briefed you but since when was he a member of the Patriots, how come noone knew?

So Liquid's goal is to amass and control a huge army and weapons and rule over the planet with it? What for exactly? Power? Greed? Also he wants to take the control out of the Patriot's hands so I guess he isn't all bad?

What was Big Boss trying to stop with Major Zero? I didn't really get this when it was explained earlier on in the game.

The Boss was basically being used by the Patriots in MGS3 to acquire the philosophers legacy? Was she aware that they controlled all information? She fought for a lost cause?

What was Mei Ling saying that if you just take care of Liquid it wont be enough? Did it mean the control will still be in the Patriots hands and nothing will have changed?

Lastly, I'm still unclear what is killing Snake? Is it just his rapid ageing process due to him being a clone or is it Foxdie adapting and going to kill him?
1. This is explained further in Act 5.

2. No, that was an act.

3.
She's "like Vamp" in the sense that the nanomachines are keeping them both alive; Naomi has cancer.

4. I personally didn't like this twist either, but it's explained further in the ending. However,
he's actually one of the founding members of the Patriots. He, along with practically everyone left alive after MGS3 and MGS:pO created the Patriots.

5. Explained in the ending.

6.
Big Boss and Major Zero had a... difference of opinion as to how much control the Patriots should have. Explained further in the ending.

7. The Patriots weren't around during The Boss' time.

8. Yes.

9. His rapid-aging is killing him.
 

hteng

Banned
boco77 said:
Just reached
Act 5
I have a few questions up to this point of the story. I might have missed some details and explanations in cutscenes as there was so much to take in, please dont spoil if its explained later on from the point I'm at. Please dont read these spoilers if you havent finished it.

Why did Naomi go back to Liquid and co after she got the data for Outer Haven from them? Why not just stay with Snake and the others?

Was she in love with Vamp as she was holding him at the end of act four.

So she was like Vamp but who made her like this? Herself? When did she become like him in the series?

Where did this Major Zero come from being bad all of a sudden? He was your friend in MGS3 and briefed you but since when was he a member of the Patriots, how come noone knew?

So Liquid's goal is to amass and control a huge army and weapons and rule over the planet with it? What for exactly? Power? Greed? Also he wants to take the control out of the Patriot's hands so I guess he isn't all bad?

What was Big Boss trying to stop with Major Zero? I didn't really get this when it was explained earlier on in the game.

The Boss was basically being used by the Patriots in MGS3 to acquire the philosophers legacy? Was she aware that they controlled all information? She fought for a lost cause?

What was Mei Ling saying that if you just take care of Liquid it wont be enough? Did it mean the control will still be in the Patriots hands and nothing will have changed?

Lastly, I'm still unclear what is killing Snake? Is it just his rapid ageing process due to him being a clone or is it Foxdie adapting and going to kill him?

The patriots did not exist during the events of MGS3, it was created by Major Zero when the boss died to realize the boss's will, which is to unify the world under one order. Also not to be confuse with philosphers and patriots, the patriots were built upon the vast fund left by the philosopher's legacy (they obtained it during the events of MGS3). The boss was under US military orders at that time.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
Whoa! Trade some rations to the rebels in the base in act.1 They give you ipod tracks! I also knocked one out and stole his machine gun. He goes "hey look at this cool gun I stole from a PMC" and I was like "oh yeah let me see that!" I wonder if you can knock out Meryl and take her Desert Eagle in act 1? :D

Edit: Crushdance, exactly. Now go play the other ones. :D
 
Just finished act 3, I liked all the previous metal gear games but this game doesnt fuck around, fuckin incredible so far, theres been parts where I felt bad for snake, ive never got that way for a game before. As I was saying ive never been a huge fan of metal gear, our praised kojima like some people, but that has all changed, kojima created somthing incredible, and it will go unmatched for a long time.

If you never liked the other metal gear games, I still suggest you rent this game, you will thank me later.
 
Flo_Evans said:
Whoa! Trade some rations to the rebels in the base in act.1 They give you ipod tracks! I also knocked one out and stole his machine gun. He goes "hey look at this cool gun I stole from a PMC" and I was like "oh yeah let me see that!" I wonder if you can knock out Meryl and take her Desert Eagle in act 1? :D
that would be cool if you can
 
I just saw the OP, damn man you guys ROCK at doing Official threads!!!!

most impressiv thread I have seen so far


oh and MGS4 is the SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still playing it and still loving it like it was one of my twins
 

mileS

Member
Jtrizzy said:
I'm really having trouble with two things in this game.

1. I can't consistently hold people up. It works some but not often enough. Often times I'll stand behind him and nothing happens, then he'll turn around and be alerted. When I do, I can't get the pat down option to come up either, which is something I really want to do.

2. The CQC where you climb on top of the guy. Whenever I try CQC from the crouch walk, it takes me to the throat slit option.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

this might help http://www.gametrailers.com/player/35159.html

I don't think the hold up move works when you walk up to them with your gun already aimed. I think you need to sneak up behind them and as soon as you get close aim your weapon. When they stick the arms up you can move to the front and then the pat down option should come up. Hope that helps


robertsan21 said:
still playing it and still loving it like it was one of my twins

:lol I love you robertsan! say hi to the twins for me :D
 

Snowball

Banned
Maybe it does interest someone :)

mgspb2.jpg


pb799.jpg


Playboy Magazine July 1999
PLAYMATE: Jennifer Rovero

COVER: Brooke Richards

PICTORIALS: Girls of Hawaiian Tropic - excellent pictorial featuring girls from the bikini magazine, including April Abraham, Nicole Carter, Patti O'Donell, Jennifer DeYonker, Tenniel Cacayan, Kalin Olson, April Morgan, Michelle Vaden, Charlotte Arlt and many more; actress Karen Finley

INTERVIEW: Barney Frank 20 Q: filmmaker Michael Moore

FEATURES: Sci-Fi TV by Daniel Radosh; Extreme Wall Street by Larry Dubois; Root Rage by Carl Sherman; The Best Things I've Done for a Man by Lori Weiss; Wrestling Madness by Mark Husid and William Harlan Pryor; The Manly Secrets of Fly Fishing by Gary Cole; profile of heavyweight pitcher David Wells in Drinking, Screwing, Defying -- The World According to David Wells by Mark Ribowsky.
 

1stStrike

Banned
So, I just finished act 2 on the boss extreme.

Holy.Fucking.Shit.

The whole act isn't that big of a deal, but the
rolling ball of death that laughing octopus does is ridiculous. I had to redo that fight like 8 times. Also, the end part where you have to get through all the different parts while fending off zombie soldiers, power suits, gecko's etc..I had to redo that about 10 times. Kept dying from stupid shit.

I must definitely be masochistic in trying for the boss rank. Jesus christ.

Anyway, still looking good with 1 hour 54 minutes so far at the end of act 2. I think I can make the 5 hour time limit as act 3 and 4 should be easy.

Oh and, my actual gameplay time is something like 9 hours so far on this save. I may end up putting in 20 or 30 hours just to get a perfect 5 hour game >>
 

Darkpen

Banned
Gamer @ Heart said:
What? I said nothing about believe ability. Why did you bring it up? We are talking about a series that lead us to believe a soul took over another persons body through and arm planstrant for goodness sakes.

I was talking about closure. MGS3, being a prequel wasnt chained by all the shit that luckily MGS4 mostly ironed out. It was its own complete story that gave tidbits to the future of the series.
I was mainly responding to eso76's post
 

Darkpen

Banned
CrushDance said:
My views as a Metal Gear newcomer upon completion of this awe-inspiring "game". Kojima's thoughts, the controls for those not used to the series, the meaning of Snakes existence as a soldier and more. In a nutshell, Metal Gear as defined by one not used to the series.

Calling to the night. Metal Gear Saga.

I just am at a loss for words to convey my feelings for this game. I’ve watched movies such as The Shawshank Redemption which impacted me greatly emotionally and made me sit back and think “What did I just watch?”, “What did those characters represent?”, “What did the director want me to take from this?”. I’ve read books, listened to music, which all conveyed the same powerful and thought provoking images that have lasted with me ever since.

Never did I think a game would do the same for me until I finished the story of this one, old, battle worn snake.


I’m a Metal Gear newcomer, having only previously played MGS2 for about 30 minutes on my neighbors PS2 years ago. I didn’t have any interest in the series and really didn’t understand the big hype around it and MGS4. It was those trailers shown of the game that caught my attention. The trailers that shows a broken old man struggling across a battlefield to finally make amends for the actions of his past. A past he had no control over from the beginning.

Some people argue that the Metal Gear story is convoluted and far fetched due to rather extreme abilities and situations that occur within the history of the series. I too believed the same, until after playing subsequent acts of MGS4 that I finally got it: This isn’t supposed to be a real life game, it is Kojima’s take on the world we live in, the what if’s of tomorrow and truly gives us an in-depth look into his thoughts on what war really is, the soul of war, peace, love, hate, life, death, afterlife...

Through all of the previous games players have controlled Solid Snake and taken orders without question. Soldier. There is no such thing as “free thinking” or personal choice. A solider must obey orders given to him or her by their superiors in darkness, an ever extending branch of ideologies, and politics. No where is this more evident than in the 4th installment where it’s revealed that Snake himself a spy of spies, soldier of soldiers himself was in the dark about what his previous missions were really about and the forces behind those commands.

It is here that Snake utters the line: “I’m no hero, never was. I’m just an old killer, hired to do some wet work.” To who was he a hero? Who were the people congratulating him for his sacrifices? Snake understands at the moment what it means to be a soldier, to not have control over your own destiny...to not create your own destiny, but to rather sacrifice for the ambitions of others. In the end, he was nothing more than a tool. Created via cloning to mimic Big Boss and become another weapon, his fate it seems, was sealed from the moment the forces around him laid out the path of his existence in the lab all those years ago. To be a killer and enforce their laws to further their goals. There was no running away or challenging of his fate, he was brought up and trained to be an enforcer of the law of others, the key in the lock.

Suffering from accelerated aging, contaminated with FOXDIE, and an overpowering threat in the form of Liquid Snake, The Patriots and all the factions in between, Snake’s fate is sealed. He continues to smoke in ever increasing amounts as test after test reveals that his life has, and was created and dated to expire at a set time. No longer was it about him just “surviving” all the forces out to extinguish him, but rather to finally create his own orders and commands. As Liquid attempted to seize control of the world itself, Snake aspired to finally seize control of his own destiny. If he was to die anyway, he’d put every last bit of his soul into the fight. As he put it himself: “Survival...is just survival” There has to be a purpose to the life given to you a reason to exist...the same reason The Patriots therefore placed their will on.

To change. Like a Snake.

While the story itself is very well thought out in terms of tying up loose ends and forcing players to sit back after finishing the title and digest all that they’ve seen. The game play has been criticized as being cumbersome and or “clunky”. I went into this game expecting the worst and horribly complicated controls, but within 1 hour of playing I’d already mastered CQC(Close Quarter Combat) and able to engage in stealth as well as fire fights when the need arose.
The simplicity of the controls and the wide range of choices given to the player to accomplish their task almost makes it feel like a different game every time you play, no longer are you relegated to once control scheme to move ahead. A simple press of the L1 button allows Snake to draw his weapon, using the right analog stick allows him to direct fire and tapping or holding R1 fires the equipped weapon. I was apprehensible about it at first and was literally scared and spent most of my time crawling on the ground while avoiding conflict altogether as it can get very hectic at times. But within the hour I had mastered the controls and was able to move from point A to B silently and without being detected, holding enemy forces up to steal ammo, weapons, and other items. All of this was made even simpler by the OctoCamo, a device which automatically copied the surroundings Snake was near to in order to hide himself for detection.
It made me smile. I really felt like an experienced soldier.

Pushing onward I ended up in another continent and once again was thrust into the thick of battle against my will, and Snakes. Forced to fight a traumatized innocent vicitim of war who utilized a robotic suit similar to Snakes OctoCamo which also allowed her to blend in with the surroundings made for a very startling and on your toes battle. Upon her defeat I(Snake) received a call from a man named Drebin who pursued the art of weapon laundering as just another means to make money in the war economy of the game. Following a short dialogue between Snake and Drebin, he explained to Snake about the tragedies of the woman’s past and thanked Snake for having freed her of the terrors in her mind.
I pushed forward and in a surprise call met up with Raiden. An ally of Snakes who’d gone missing since the last game. He offered me advice on locating the kidnapped Naomi Hunter who had been taken by the PMC shortly before the aforementioned battle between Snake and Laughing Octopus.

Follow the tracks.

And so I did. I fired up my night vision via the Solid Eye system which allowed Snake to view data on targets, locate items easier and much more. I wandered around for about an hour following the tracks in the dirt that branched off every once in a while. And then I heard it. Naomi was calling for me in a nearby cabin. I was gleeful and congratulated myself for finding her so fast, to my utter shock and amusement, it was not Naomi calling me, but rather a taped message designed to lure me into the cabin where I was ambushed by a few enemy troops. Making short work of them I regained my original location and wondered why the steps stopped there. I got a call from Raiden. “Don’t just look at the footprints, but also the size, depth, shape. Think. Are they consistent with her weight?, size?” In my rush to find her, I’d totally overlooked the fact that the shoe size had changed drastically at a fork in the road before.
And I laughed.


The game was filled with all these little things and so much more that I and others have yet to still discover, of that I am sure. It’s not just the fact that the game is filled with rich dialogue and detailed cut scenes that move the story onward, but the little things that really make it seem like you’re watching a movie or some grand story taking place. In most other games you can quickly break away from the immersion after a while as you begin to repeat the same tasks with an ever static environment.
Guns of the Patriots feels alive. It’s a game that truly pushed the term “organic game play” as situations can change on the dime and segments that really force you to think or have extreme patience to succeed push you to your limits. There are times where it’s pitch black, others where it is bright, grass, water, snow, fire, cold, heat. And most importantly of all, these are just set pieces, they all affect your game play and Snake.

There are times where I’d feel bad for him and for example give him some instant hot noodles to warm him up, or use a med pac to relive his aches and pains. You really connect with the character and at times it goes beyond just looking at him and the others as 3D figures, but rather living breathing people. When he coughed and dryly asked for a smoke, I felt tears in my eyes, when he was beaten and bruised I felt vengeful, when he was healthy and happy I felt happy as well.

For a time the “uncanny valley” effect has been said to lead to the halt of graphics in games and or create unsettling games. But MGS4 has proven that it’s not just about computing power that makes a game attractive, but also EMOTIONS and the ability to create an attachment between players and the characters that inhabit that virtual world. It’s a game that grows with you and doesn’t just guide you along.
No graphics could make me feel such a wide variation of emotions as I and Snake both went down this long road. If Kojima and his team can continue to make such powerful and landscape changing games such as these, I don’t care what they make. People may argue about story, graphics, sound and so forth for years to come, we may compare games across the board in sales or flash. But this is truly a breakout game for the industry. Nowhere else have such emotions been recreated and so masterfully as with Metal gear Solid 4: Guns of The Patriots.

The best is yet to come indeed.
pretty interesting read, for someone who's been up to his neck with MGS for the past 6 years or so.

It really is a thoroughly enjoyable experience that no game this generation, or the previous one, was able to offer. It makes me question game reviews that the title's received, whether its an 8, or a 10. It brings me back to those discussions of why game reviews tend to exclude the emotional impact that the game has on the player, and instead choose to focus on slightly-more measurable things like graphical fidelity, audio, gameplay, and pacing.

Personally, I can't share some of your sentiments, as someone who merely viewed Snake as an avatar that would merely heed my will, and reflect my button pressing with actions, or at least, during the gameplay segments for a majority of the game. Certainly, I found myself caring for Snake and those around him, but earlier on, it was just another game.

Being able to spin his character model around when viewing camo solidified this perspective.

By the end, though, it was no longer about the novelty of octo camo, or the little metal gear, but instead the focus on the mission, and the impending doom.

To say the least, it was depressing.

But honestly, I'm glad its over. The story of Solid Snake is finally to a close.

Also, did you tranq haven troopers and the B&B Corps, or did you kill them all? :(
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Does anyone have any tips for getting through the
motorcycle chase sequence
without killing anyone and without using a health item? Not killing people isn't really the problem, I just die usually right after the
slo-mo jump over that one barricade
.
 

1stStrike

Banned
Ourobolus said:
Does anyone have any tips for getting through the
motorcycle chase sequence
without killing anyone and without using a health item? Not killing people isn't really the problem, I just die usually right after the
slo-mo jump over that one barricade
.

Just go crazy with the tranq pistol and when the flying wings come at you, shoot as many of them down as you can. I imagine this part will be hell for me when I get to it tomorrow on the boss extreme.
 

Darkpen

Banned
Ourobolus said:
Does anyone have any tips for getting through the
motorcycle chase sequence
without killing anyone and without using a health item? Not killing people isn't really the problem, I just die usually right after the
slo-mo jump over that one barricade
.
a no-kill run is easier on your second time through, when you get the emotion smoke grenades. For now, just use smoke grenades, stun grenades, and tranq rounds.
 
Ok, has anyone got the CVG special for the MGS series?
It's £5, they did the GTA special last month. I bought it yesterday and read pretty much all of it. Man.. they need a freaking editor. That magazine was poorly written, tons of unprofessional mistakes aswell as factual mistakes. Getting dates wrong many times. If you ever felt that this MGS special of the magazine needed to be purchased, then don't. It's not worth it.
 
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