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[Moray]

I'm probably about midway through Act 2 and there's only one thing that's really bothering me so far: the CoD4-esque clone war armies during some sequences. Being a newcomer to Metal Gear, I'm playing it mostly as a shooter and enjoying it, especially when

Spoiler

you're helping the resistance and you defeat enough PMCs to get them to cheer and advance.

But then you get to areas where the PMCs just keep spawning. I didn't like that in CoD4 and it feels even more out of place in this game.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Drebin.

Spoiler

How? Campbell is the one who sent Snake to kill Liquid in the first place, all Drebin did was help him by supplying weapons, not directly control him.

 

[burgerdog]

yeah, for the framing. doesn't mean they expected him to survive.

Spoiler

he thought he was Liquid.

Excellent point, my friend. :bow :bow

 

[tha_con]

Good christ the defense force is out in full this morning. Do you react this same way in real life when someone doesn't share the same views as you? Also, how many times do I have to say that MGS is my favorite gaming franchise, and that I love a lot of what MGS4 is selling? But you must have your Solid Eye blinders on to gloss over the game's flaws like you are doing.

If I was in a group of friends, 5 of us, discussing MGS4 (or a movie, whatever) and 4 of us enjoy it, awesome. But if that ONE person, just keeps saying "but this sucks" over and over and over again. Then yea, I'd tell him to STFU, because really, we only need to hear it once, not over and over again.

You keep coming back to this thread, JUST to tell us how we're all fucking playing the game with blinders on, and it's OLD. Is your mission not complete? Why do you KEEP expressing your opinion, THAT is the problem. Get real dude. Nearly every one of your posts are about how you didn't like (insert something here) or how we're all ignoring flaws.

What is a fucking flaw to you, is NOT a flaw to me. Fucking hypocritical of you to tell me not to react one way when someone has a different view, and then tell ME that I'm overlooking something YOU fucking saw as a flaw.

Get real dude.

 

[dark10x]

But then you get to areas where the PMCs just keep spawning. I didn't like that in CoD4 and it feels even more out of place in this game

The difference here, however, is that you need not face them to progress. CoD4 constantly forces you to sit there and fight off troopers until a certain point. With MGS4, you're not even required to engage the enemy at all, if you choose. The game offers a lot of possibilities to the player.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

That's when you high-tail it outta there, all sneaky-like. Use the chaos of the battlefield to your advantage and split right past the PMCs.

 

[Raist]

Spoiler

Given the types of clones they are it would also make more sense if Solidus had a different surrogate.

Spoiler

This has nothing to do with the surrogate mother. Liquid and Solid are different from Solidus (and both of them aren't true twins anyways) because they were meant to be different. If they really had different surrogate mothers, Solidus wouldn't be a closer clone to BB anyway. Technically speaking, no clone can be 100% matching unless you use the same ovocytes for the "father" and the "son"

 

[Solo]

If I was in a group of friends, 5 of us, discussing MGS4 (or a movie, whatever) and 4 of us enjoy it, awesome. But if that ONE person, just keeps saying "but this sucks" over and over and over again. Then yea, I'd tell him to STFU, because really, we only need to hear it once, not over and over again.

You keep coming back to this thread, JUST to tell us how we're all fucking playing the game with blinders on, and it's OLD. Is your mission not complete? Why do you KEEP expressing your opinion, THAT is the problem. Get real dude. Nearly every one of your posts are about how you didn't like (insert something here) or how we're all ignoring flaws.

What is a fucking flaw to you, is NOT a flaw to me. Fucking hypocritical of you to tell me not to react one way when someone has a different view, and then tell ME that I'm overlooking something YOU fucking saw as a flaw.

Get real dude.

So in brief, what you're saying is that I can only post in this thread if I want to praise the game. Fun times.

Also, chill out. Its just a game. That you seem to care/are offended by my viewpoint is funny.

 

[Moray]

The difference here, however, is that you need not face them to progress. CoD4 constantly forces you to sit there and fight off troopers until a certain point. With MGS4, you're not even required to engage the enemy at all, if you choose. The game offers a lot of possibilities to the player.

But my problem is that it still breaks the immersion of feeling like you're crawling through a dynamic battlefield. Whether you're going in shooting or stealth, you don't affect the battle until you pass a certain point. When I first get to a fire fight it's real exciting and I usually just lay there and watch it for awhile until I realize that it's stuck in a loop.

There are instances that are very dynamic, like the beginning of Act 2 where the whole situation plays out completely differently based on what you do. I just wish they did that consistently through the whole game.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Just started ACT 3 OMG at the Graphics! 0_0 Looks so amazing!

 

[tha_con]

How do they

Spoiler

control Snake to their own ends then?

That's the only thing I'm not entirely sure about, I'm sure there's a simple answer.

Well,

Spoiler

Snake is summoned by Campbell, and Campbell works for the Government. The Patriots control the Government. Which is why they use Campbell to summon Snake to take out Ocelot, to prevent him from launching his 'insurrection' (outer heaven). Ocelot is just fooling them to use Snake (through the use of Naomi) to plant a virus in GW (which he owns) that will take out the entire patriots system.

I mean really, Snake leads Ocelot to Eastern Europe (with Naomi, who disappears) to recover Solidus, who is then used to give him full access to JD. The virus is loaded into GW, and destorys the entire system.

 

[Solo]

I didnt really notice respawning enemies in MGS4. So at the very least, its not a problem like in CoD4, in which it was something you couldnt miss.

 

[∀ Narayan]

But my problem is that it still breaks the immersion of feeling like you're crawling through a dynamic battlefield. Whether you're going in shooting or stealth, you don't affect the battle until you pass a certain point. When I first get to a fire fight it's real exciting and I usually just lay there and watch it for awhile until I realize that's it's stuck in a loop.

Yeah. This is something I realized pretty quick into Act 2. It was a bit disappointing, but at least you can avoid it altogether.

 

[tha_con]

I really only recall two area's with respawning area's...were there more?

 

[Solo]

Anyone care to take a stab at WTF was up with

Spoiler

Ocelot

planting a big wet one on Snake during

Spoiler

the final fight?

:lol

 

[EviLore]

Yeah the respawning from monster closets so nearby is lame.

 

[Dabookerman]

Anyone care to take a stab at WTF was up with

Spoiler

Ocelot

planting a big wet one on Snake during

Spoiler

the final fight?

:lol

Wouldn't you?

 

[Torquill]

Spoiler

This has nothing to do with the surrogate mother. Liquid and Solid are different from Solidus (and both of them aren't true twins anyways) because they were meant to be different. If they really had different surrogate mothers, Solidus wouldn't be a closer clone to BB anyway. Technically speaking, no clone can be 100% matching unless you use the same ovocytes for the "father" and the "son"

Spoiler

Liquid bitches about being the garbage leftovers in the original. THe way he describe it in MGS1 the very method of their creation involved a junk embryo being created to make a surperior one. Did you ever see the movie Twins? Same deal. I'm not sure you could also have a perfect clone growing in there and not get mucked with during all this. While EVA could still be the surrogate, she wouldn't have been carying SOlidus along with the "Twins". (wtf, this is all fictional science anyway PP lol)

 

[dagZ]

after i beat the game, how can I play another game with all of my facecamo, and weapons?

 

[jjasper]

Spoiler

How? Campbell is the one who sent Snake to kill Liquid in the first place, all Drebin did was help him by supplying weapons, not directly control him.

My guess:

Spoiler

The Patriots were controlling the information. They located Liquid and sent out the information that he was attempting to take complete control of the PMC's for world domination. Campbell got the info and sent Snake in to stop him. Or something along those lines

 

[∀ Narayan]

after i beat the game, how can I play another game with all of my facecamo, and weapons?

Load your completed save.

 

[Solo]

Wouldn't you?

Raiden perhaps.

 

[Wrestlemania]

My guess:

Spoiler

The Patriots were controlling the information. They located Liquid and sent out the information that he was attempting to take complete control of the PMC's for world domination. Campbell got the info and sent Snake in to stop him. Or something along those lines

Spoiler

Yeah, that's all they could have done really, leaked his plan and aided Rat Patrol 01 in finding him. After that all they could do was aid Snake by giving him Drebin.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

after i beat the game, how can I play another game with all of my facecamo, and weapons?

Just load the same game, it'll prompt you to choose difficulty and start over. Once you meet up with the Mk. II you'll get all your stuff back.

 

[Moray]

I really only recall two area's with respawning area's...were there more?

I think I've only come across two so far, one was at the end of one of the streets in Act 1 and the other was at one of the outposts in Act 2. So at least it's a far reaching issue.

On the other hand, I played the beginning section of Act 2 three times last night and it was amazing all the different ways you can approach it.

Spoiler

I quickly sniped some of the guards that were near the prisoners, who then picked up there guns and killed all the other guards. Another time I was too slow and all the prisoners were killed.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Yeah the respawning from monster closets so nearby is lame.

Yeah that can definitely get annoying I sat at *mild spoilers*

Spoiler

the mansion house in Act 2 trying to kill all the PMC's that came out so the resistance could win and I sat there for probably 30 to 40 min. The reason its annoying as balls is that in the previous areas you can in fact overrun them and get the great HURRAH out of everyone and there is nothing indicated about the mansion that should be different

 

[dagZ]

Load your completed save.

i did, but theres nothing there.

edit: nvm, you need to get the mk. II first.

 

[REV 09]

the game has no GLARING flaws....only nitpicky shit...

how is half the game being cutscenes not a glaring flaw? I'm enjoying it though. I'm at the end of Act 4 (which is my favorite act so far). I'm finding the gameplay to be above average, some cutscenes are fucking phenomenal yet others extremely boring. I also feel that many of the cutscenes could have been cut altogether. Overall, it's a very good game and one of the PS3's best exclusives. 8.75/10, score could change once i finish it though.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I also have to say the insane degree that I love this game is bordering on psychotic I have
never been so damn wrapped up in anything as I am in this its kind of disturbing.

Do you guys remember being younger and playing that one game that was so great its
all you thought about? You would wake up as early as you could so that before school
you could play it?

I haven't done this since Mickeys Castle of Illusion(WTF I know) but I wake up at friggen 4:30am
just so I have almost 3 hours to play before I go to work......I need help

 

[Dabookerman]

how is half the game being cutscenes not a glaring flaw?

Well it isn't. It's almost a genre really.
Metal Gear Solid genre, Gameplay with lots of cutscenes.

Unless some 3rd person shooter fans are used to playing FPS games and saying it's a major flaw not to include a 3rd person pespective.

 

[Torquill]

how is half the game being cutscenes not a glaring flaw? I'm enjoying it though. I'm at the end of Act 4 (which is my favorite act so far). I'm finding the gameplay to be above average, some cutscenes are fucking phenomenal yet others extremely boring. I also feel that many of the cutscenes could have been cut altogether. Overall, it's a very good game and one of the PS3's best exclusives. 8.75/10, score could change once i finish it though.

Because that's a subjective issue. I would argue that a game being half cutscenes cannot be generalized as "always bad forever in every case" especially when people keep fucking buying the games that do it. I could probably write an entire freaking essay on why passive experiences in games aren't "inheriently" bad. Some people like them, some people don't. I mean, Xenosaga made money... clearly people like it, if enough people liked it enough to buy it so that it stil made a profit I don't see how you can argue a quantitive argument against it. All subjective issues of what different folks find fun.

 

[Moray]

how is half the game being cutscenes not a glaring flaw?

I agree that the amount/length of cutscenes is a flaw, but only if you're not a fan of the Metal Gear series. I've never played a Metal Gear game before so they don't do anything for me (and honestly, the dialog and voice acting is very cheesy, especially Snake, whose voice just doesn't seem to fit).

But I'd probably say the exact opposite if I had grown up playing the previous games.

Nevertheless, the gameplay is so good, AND you can skip the cutscenes. Although the Codec calls are extremely unnecessary and boring. I know it's a throwback to the old games but they could have made it more modern by using an in-game radio like Bioshock or something.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

how is half the game being cutscenes not a glaring flaw? I'm enjoying it though. I'm at the end of Act 4 (which is my favorite act so far). I'm finding the gameplay to be above average, some cutscenes are fucking phenomenal yet others extremely boring. I also feel that many of the cutscenes could have been cut altogether. Overall, it's a very good game and one of the PS3's best exclusives. 8.75/10, score could change once i finish it though.

I can definitely understand this complaint and obviously its one thats been leveled against MGS since the first
one.

I think MGS4 really goes the extra mile to making the cutscenes really enjoyable though there are so many
cool things you can do especially when compared to MGS2 which after 4 is going to be really hard for me
to ever replay.

Also I think the gameplay is phenomenal because of how constant it switches up. You really have no idea
what your going to be doing next.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I am trying to do a no-kills game.

In act2 I accidently walked over a mine and the mine seems to have killed a sleeping dude nearby. Does that count as a kill?

 

[John_B]

Attempting Big Boss emblem. Regarding Act 1 where you meet up with the Mk II. The amoured tank that appears, can you destroy it (won't count as a kill), in order to get the militia on side. It would make the run to Drebin much easier.

Why not just use the disguise?

In act2 I accidently walked over a mine and the mine seems to have killed a sleeping dude nearby. Does that count as a kill?

It does not count. I did the exact thing.

 

[Dabookerman]

Saying too many cutscenes is a flaw is only valid if said cutscenes are unskippable.
If a non MGS fan wanted to play the game, then I would be under the assumption that the story means nothing to them, and there would be no harm done if they were to skip these life threatening cutscenes.

 

[supercake]

My take on Liquid Ocelot

Spoiler

I can understand that Ocelot underwent lots of therapy and training to "become" Liquid, but I'd still like to believe he has an extra edge that allows him to go so far with his personality. The edge being that he's the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. That's too important of a plot point to be thrown out by saying that Ocelot can only do it because of psychotherapy, he has that edge thanks to The Sorrow.

Spoiler

Just how do we know that Ocelot is The Boss and The Sorrow's son anyway? Is this just assumed and not even 100% confirmed?

 

[NameIess]

The best Next-gen game released too date IMO.
I will be the first to say this game is not for everyone, because it's more of an interactive movie. Any MGS fan knows this going in and enjoys the convoluted story and great action sequences and cinematics. Anyone new to the MGS series may not appreciate the ridiculously convoluted story or extremely long cinema sequences. I do think the gameplay improvements definitely make the game more approachable to people new to the series, but I would not expect everyone to love this game.

I just finished the game yesterday and have to say it's the best character development I have ever seen in a video game and really evokes emotion during your gameplay. The only other game that had this kind of impact at all was the Half Life series, but MGS 4 takes it to another level. I would say this is a must buy for any PS3 owner, because this game is what the PS3 is all about IMO.

 

[tha_con]

Good christ the defense force is out in full this morning. Do you react this same way in real life when someone doesn't share the same views as you? Also, how many times do I have to say that MGS is my favorite gaming franchise, and that I love a lot of what MGS4 is selling? But you must have your Solid Eye blinders on to gloss over the game's flaws like you are doing.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11624315#post11624315
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11624020#post11624020
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11614141#post11614141
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11614061#post11614061
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11612435#post11612435
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11606228#post11606228
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11606092#post11606092
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11601441#post11601441
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11587335#post11587335
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11589409#post11589409

You go on to post your 'ranking' of the game multiple times, etc etc, point out flaws, the 'hyperbole' we are all experiencing, etc etc etc.

It's dumb, we get it, please stop.

 

[Steroyd]

If I tranq a frog while they're on the wall and they fall to their death is that counted as a kill?

 

[Gorechylde]

Well,

Spoiler

Snake is summoned by Campbell, and Campbell works for the Government. The Patriots control the Government. Which is why they use Campbell to summon Snake to take out Ocelot, to prevent him from launching his 'insurrection' (outer heaven). Ocelot is just fooling them to use Snake (through the use of Naomi) to plant a virus in GW (which he owns) that will take out the entire patriots system.

I mean really, Snake leads Ocelot to Eastern Europe (with Naomi, who disappears) to recover Solidus, who is then used to give him full access to JD. The virus is loaded into GW, and destorys the entire system.

Spoiler

You also have to consider that the new FOX DIE strain that Drebin planted in Snake allowed him to track and keep tabs on Snake. If Naomi and Ocelot knew this then that would make a really good reason to keep Snake and his crew in the dark until the last possible second.

Also, for those still questioning the Liquid Ocelot fiasco, the synopsis in the guide states that Ocelot underwent nanomachine swaps and gene therapy and hypnosis and shit to impersonate Liquid. He was faking it the whole time. Afterall, what better motivation for Snake to "Destroy GW with Naomi's virus" than stopping his arch enemy, Liquid Snake?

 

[burgerdog]

I have a feeling this no kill/no alert thing will be easier than the assassin emblem for me. I got caught so many times trying to CQC :lol

 

[dagZ]

where do your pictures go when you export them?

 

[tha_con]

I have a feeling this no kill/no alert thing will be easier than the assassin emblem for me. I got caught so many times trying to CQC :lol

It is.

 

[Durante]

how is half the game being cutscenes not a glaring flaw?

It's not just not a glaring flaw, it's not a flaw at all. That's like calling the 3rd person perspective in most recent action games a flaw, or (good) turn based battles in JRPGs, or the fact that you only control one character in Oblivion. All these are part of what the games in question are, and all may be disliked by some, but none are flaws (much less glaring ones).

 

[tha_con]

If I tranq a frog while they're on the wall and they fall to their death is that counted as a kill?

Nope, it doesn't count

 

[Orlics]

Because that's a subjective issue. I would argue that a game being half cutscenes cannot be generalized as "always bad forever in every case" especially when people keep fucking buying the games that do it. I could probably write an entire freaking essay on why passive experiences in games aren't "inheriently" bad. Some people like them, some people don't. I mean, Xenosaga made money... clearly people like it, if enough people liked it enough to buy it so that it stil made a profit I don't see how you can argue a quantitive argument against it. All subjective issues of what different folks find fun.

The question of whether the flaws in the game are "glaring" or "nitpicky" is also a subjective issue, is it not?

 

[Owensboro]

Spoiler

The microwave scene is the best and most poignant scene I've ever seen in a movie or game....full stop. Music works beautifully too.

Honestly, that scene is a complete work of brilliance. It's one of the few times that I was playing a game while thinking

Spoiler

"oh Sh*t, I'm not going to make it" and feeling genuinely sad about it. I found myself screaming in my head "CRAWL! CRAWL D*MN YOU!" That, and I had someone watching with me constantly saying "Press the d*mn button faster! Jesus! FASTER!"

Spoiler

I loved that it was split screen, but kind of mad that I didn't get to see all of what was going on on the other half (I was way to enthralled to look away from snake crawling). The same can be said for the Raiden - Vamp fight. When I get to those on another playthrough I'm going to make someone else play so I can watch.

 

[burgerdog]

I'm quite sad that I'll probably never get the Snake Eater ipod song, I really hope they unlock this song. Getting 40 emblems would simply take too long.

 

[TheWolf]

My take on Liquid Ocelot

Spoiler

I can understand that Ocelot underwent lots of therapy and training to "become" Liquid, but I'd still like to believe he has an extra edge that allows him to go so far with his personality. The edge being that he's the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. That's too important of a plot point to be thrown out by saying that Ocelot can only do it because of psychotherapy, he has that edge thanks to The Sorrow.

Spoiler

Just how do we know that Ocelot is The Boss and The Sorrow's son anyway? Is this just assumed and not even 100% confirmed?

Kojima confirmed it.

and i'm pretty sure there is a point in the MGS2 comic where the ghost of Liquid is taunting Ocelot and telling him that eventually he will be in control.