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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
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Steiner_Zi
Member
First of all,darkpaladinmfc said:
Ocelot and Snake were on the same side, only Snake didn't know it. Naomi went back to Ocelot in Act 3 to tell him that the virus would soon be ready, so that he could proceed as planned.
Just beat the game. Here's some thoughts for the early-to-mid-twenties crowd:
I didn't cry at the ending. I'm not even sure I fully understand the story. But one thing is for certain: MGS4 made a bigger emotional impact on me than most books, movies and television shows I have consumed. And it really has nothing to do with Solid Snake, or Otacon or any of the narrative.
I was 12-years-old when Metal Gear Solid came out. I vividly remember when the MGS demo came out in the Official Playstation Magazine - running around from bookstore to bookstore that night with my father in his pickup truck. My father didn't give a shit about videogames. He thought I was insane. It was right at the tail end of adolescence, and I was getting a bit too old to care so much about videogames.
I wasn't even a big gamer - mostly played sports games, but for some reason the premise of MGS sounded really bad ass. I probably played through the demo level 20 times before the game finally came out.
$50 was a big deal to a seventh-grade kid, so I raked leaves with my friends every day after school that October to save up my money. Counted out the last five dollars in quarters at the EB.
If you're in your early-twenties now, I'm sure you know the story: Calling up friends to brag that you made it to disk 2...Shutting yourself in your room/basement with a case of Mountain Dew...Laughing at all the semi-juvenile Kojima jokes....Damn near being in tears when the credits rolled and the music played.
Now it's 10 years later, and I'm out in the real world and living on the other side of the world. I rarely have the motivation to play games anymore after coming home from work, and they never get in the way of the pubs on the weekend. I bought the game without watching any of the trailers.
Through the first 3 Acts, I was pretty entertained. But when Act 4 hit, and Otacon said, "Snake, we're going back to Shadow Moses," and then you're greeted with the MGS1 flashback, followed by that music kicking and all the resulting audio flashbacks....Well, my life essentially flashed before my eyes.
MGS4 is the greatest single videogame experience I've ever had for that reason alone. It transcends the game itself and all its parts. It evoked childhood memories not just of playing videogames, but of my father, my friends, autumn, my old basement hangout, and many other things that mean nothing to you. But those of you of the "Net-generation" who grew up on Metal Gear, you probably had your own personal memories come flooding back.
So MGS4 might not be the GAF game of the year, or "art," or even the best Metal Gear Solid game, but I sincerely appreciate what Kojima has created. The best movies I've ever seen - I couldn't tell you what was going on in my life when I saw them. But the best videogames I've ever played are time-pieces that carry with them a lot of emotional weight.
It'll be interesting to see if others felt the same way....
I was 12-years-old when Metal Gear Solid came out. I vividly remember when the MGS demo came out in the Official Playstation Magazine - running around from bookstore to bookstore that night with my father in his pickup truck. My father didn't give a shit about videogames. He thought I was insane. It was right at the tail end of adolescence, and I was getting a bit too old to care so much about videogames.
I wasn't even a big gamer - mostly played sports games, but for some reason the premise of MGS sounded really bad ass. I probably played through the demo level 20 times before the game finally came out.
$50 was a big deal to a seventh-grade kid, so I raked leaves with my friends every day after school that October to save up my money. Counted out the last five dollars in quarters at the EB.
If you're in your early-twenties now, I'm sure you know the story: Calling up friends to brag that you made it to disk 2...Shutting yourself in your room/basement with a case of Mountain Dew...Laughing at all the semi-juvenile Kojima jokes....Damn near being in tears when the credits rolled and the music played.
Now it's 10 years later, and I'm out in the real world and living on the other side of the world. I rarely have the motivation to play games anymore after coming home from work, and they never get in the way of the pubs on the weekend. I bought the game without watching any of the trailers.
Through the first 3 Acts, I was pretty entertained. But when Act 4 hit, and Otacon said, "Snake, we're going back to Shadow Moses," and then you're greeted with the MGS1 flashback, followed by that music kicking and all the resulting audio flashbacks....Well, my life essentially flashed before my eyes.
MGS4 is the greatest single videogame experience I've ever had for that reason alone. It transcends the game itself and all its parts. It evoked childhood memories not just of playing videogames, but of my father, my friends, autumn, my old basement hangout, and many other things that mean nothing to you. But those of you of the "Net-generation" who grew up on Metal Gear, you probably had your own personal memories come flooding back.
So MGS4 might not be the GAF game of the year, or "art," or even the best Metal Gear Solid game, but I sincerely appreciate what Kojima has created. The best movies I've ever seen - I couldn't tell you what was going on in my life when I saw them. But the best videogames I've ever played are time-pieces that carry with them a lot of emotional weight.
It'll be interesting to see if others felt the same way....
longdi
Banned
i thought mgs4 overdid trying to stir up our old feelings. as some reviews noted, mgs4 were tied back by too much backstory. at times i think it is too much fanservice and too little new ideas.
end game questions
anyone felt when snake and octacon kept saying they want to atone for their past sins and end this, was kojima indirectly referencing to mgs2 bad storyline that tied down future mgs games?
end game questions
why does ocelot who is outside patriot ai detection, controlled all the world's weapons and one part of patriot ai, had naomi making foxalive, went through the trouble in mgs4. when he can silently upload the virus in gw?
if he needed snake, why did he tried to ram snake with outer haven? i think we know one reason is for kojima to do another fanservice by having raiden stopping it! :lol
if he needed snake, why did he tried to ram snake with outer haven? i think we know one reason is for kojima to do another fanservice by having raiden stopping it! :lol
Ok I just finished the game and I have a few questions...
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
Having said all that, here are my top moments in the game:
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
1)
What is the deal with the Frogs? Why are they all women? Why do they scream, discharge a blue "ghost" and then turn to ash when you kill them? Did I miss something? I suspect that Otacon explained this in a voluntary Codec conversation, but I never heard it...
2)
Why did the beauties turn into ash?
3)
What is Sunny? Is she a clone of Olga? Otacon says something along the lines about her living the first few years of her life with the Patriots in the AI...? Is she part computer?
4)
I know Outer Haven was a stolen Arsenal Gear, but was it the same Gear that was hidden under the Big Shell in MGS2? Why did it have a Mount Rushmore on it? Were the figures carved into it Big Boss, Liquid, Solidus, and Solid?
5)
Was Psycho Mantis real? That part came up so fast that I didn't know what was going on...? Plus it was next to impossible to understand him through that gas mask. All I know was that he mentioned save files (I assume this was a throw back to MGS with the game reading the memory cards) and then he tried shaking the controller. I didn't have a memory card, which pissed him off, and I wasn't using a duel shock, which pissed him off even more. Then he disappeared...
6)
Because I attacked the Psycho Mantis doll, is that why he appeared? If I chose the Sorrow doll, would "The Sorrow" have appeared instead? And if so, would Drebin then talk about how "The Sorrow" controlled the beauty all this time rather than Psycho Mantis?
7)
If Ocelot was never controlled by Liquid, then why did he and Snake have a fight to the death on top of Outer Haven? I mean, the Patriots were destroyed, so why keep up the act? Mission complete, right? I guess this can be related to the hypnosis and self-suggestion that Ocelot was under...
Having said all that, here are my top moments in the game:
1)
Playing the original Playstation MGS as a dream sequence. That was brilliant!
2)
Liquid's escape from Europe by showing off his control of GW. I just loved how he started using his fingers has guns to shoot down the helicopters and kill the soldiers. Plus throwing "Big Boss's" body onto Snake's burning boat. Wow!
3)
The motorcycle run with Big Momma. That entire section of the game was masterful! From the cut scene at the church after the tailing of the operative, all the way to the battle with Raging Raven.
4)
METAL GEAR REX AND RAY FIGHT!!!
5)
Old Snake's slow crawl through the microwave hallway. I loved the split screen view of the terrible fighting going on outside combined with the pathetic crawl by Snake.
Dabookerman
Member
Maverick said:
That's pretty much me.
Remembering how I played the demo of MGS1 when I was in poland over and over again because it was so awesome. Good times man, good times.
Great post, Maverick.
Hm.
longdi said:
Hm.
For all the flaws of Metal Gear and MGS4, them "overdoing" is a debatable point. It certainly is for some Western gamers and critics who somehow think that discreetness or subtlety is a naturally superior form than "heavy handed", straight-forward expression.
Metal Gear Solid is a work that contains postmodern elements including sometimes a direct conversation or engagement with the player from the developers. This includes stuff like "recommended by Hideo Kojima" in weapon descriptions and various other Easter Eggs. Kojima has also been very open with MGS4 being the "farewell" episode for Solid Snake and this was also the entire theme of the game; his aging and creeping irrelevance and so forth.
As such, the fanservice of Act 4 was not to me something of heavy handed fanservice milking nostalgia but really a very honest and straightforward tribute to Snake, the original MGS and the series' fans.
The whole game reflects this direct engagement between Kojipro and its fans, including the lifebar changing in the final fight, which some Western critics like Shawn Elliot of 1UP regarding it as something of an over extended joke fight. To the fans, it was an honest tribute to their hero Snake's very final fight. I can honestly understand the split between fans who can soak it up (Shane Bettenhausen and plenty of posters who've voiced their opinions) and a variety of other audience including skeptical fans (the Mark McDonald sort) and interested outsiders (Shawn Elliot sort)..
I think the key is the way Kojipro and Kojima craft their games. They don't take themselves too seriously at times and take themselves extremely seriously at others. While people think that Kojima works like an auteur and dictates everything, you can really see in the bonus disc that the relationship isn't that asymmetrical. The other production staff have their own unique say and contribution, but I'd love to hear Ryan Payton talk more about it. As such, it's just how they made the game indulgently.. and this makes it very hard for people to review it; as a standalone product you could review it as an outsider but that misses alot of context that can really give you insight about why MGS is what it is.
Regardless, MGS4 really is a fanservice ship, especially Acts 4 & 5.
Metal Gear Solid is a work that contains postmodern elements including sometimes a direct conversation or engagement with the player from the developers. This includes stuff like "recommended by Hideo Kojima" in weapon descriptions and various other Easter Eggs. Kojima has also been very open with MGS4 being the "farewell" episode for Solid Snake and this was also the entire theme of the game; his aging and creeping irrelevance and so forth.
As such, the fanservice of Act 4 was not to me something of heavy handed fanservice milking nostalgia but really a very honest and straightforward tribute to Snake, the original MGS and the series' fans.
The whole game reflects this direct engagement between Kojipro and its fans, including the lifebar changing in the final fight, which some Western critics like Shawn Elliot of 1UP regarding it as something of an over extended joke fight. To the fans, it was an honest tribute to their hero Snake's very final fight. I can honestly understand the split between fans who can soak it up (Shane Bettenhausen and plenty of posters who've voiced their opinions) and a variety of other audience including skeptical fans (the Mark McDonald sort) and interested outsiders (Shawn Elliot sort)..
I think the key is the way Kojipro and Kojima craft their games. They don't take themselves too seriously at times and take themselves extremely seriously at others. While people think that Kojima works like an auteur and dictates everything, you can really see in the bonus disc that the relationship isn't that asymmetrical. The other production staff have their own unique say and contribution, but I'd love to hear Ryan Payton talk more about it. As such, it's just how they made the game indulgently.. and this makes it very hard for people to review it; as a standalone product you could review it as an outsider but that misses alot of context that can really give you insight about why MGS is what it is.
Regardless, MGS4 really is a fanservice ship, especially Acts 4 & 5.
â Narayan
Member
I thought this entire scene was hilarious.CrushDance said:Here you go!Put it as a URL just in case someone cries spoilers -_-
http://i28.tinypic.com/a3fuab.gif
ilanna said:
The idea that MGS2 had 'tied' down the plot is crazy. One of the main themes was to be ambiguous and allow fans to decide what to happen next. However, this flew over the majority of the fans heads. And shamefully, Kojima listens to his fans too much, they are what 'tie' him down. The plot in MGS4 is what I call a supply and demand issue between Kojima and his fans: the fans demand the answers, and Kojima supplies them. That is the reason why the plot in MGS4 compromised in terms creativeness.
Don't think that needs to be spoilered, but if you do then give meh a shout.
longdi
Banned
ilanna said:
well mgs1 and mgs3 had far better story, 3 especially had really cool character that 4 sorely lacked. convoluted mess != good story. in grand scheme of things, i really wished mgs2 could be rewritten and mgs4 will not have to scramble through the game trying to pick up the bits and pieces that 2 caused.
longdi said:i think you think too much.
i played mgs1/2/3/4, mgpo, mga1. of all these games, i felt mgs2 was the odd one out in story. mgs4 did as good as it can to remain sane while atoning for mgs2 "sins".
poor solidus, reduced to a twitching corpse burnt away
There are alot of obivous hints and actions that characters do that allude to the theme I mentioned above. I'll list them if ye want. If that isn't enough, watch the 'Making Of' DVD that was included with the PAL MGS2. Kojima pretty much says all this stuff himself.
â Narayan
Member
Truth.Chinner said:
Also, I agree with your impressions.
Question - can you pick up the Main Theme from MGS2 at any point? To my mind, this is one of the greatest video game themes ever, yet as far as I can tell you never hear it again after that game... It should have been the theme for the whole series, as iconic the Bond theme or Star Wars - I can only conclude that there must have been some rights issues with Gregson Williams which kept it out of subsequent episodes after 2.
blindrocket
Member
Ryan Payton, I'd like to request MGS themed avatars for use on the PSN friend list. Please! Rocking a cyborg Raiden or Snake or even Laughing Octopus avatar would be nice.
Ken Masters
Banned
1stStrike said:
To each their own. Those were my own thoughts.
Anything else you'd like to gripe about?
congrats, I'm hoping I'm good enough to get the stealth camo :lol
Virtua Ben
Member
1stStrike said:
To each their own. Those were my own thoughts.
Anything else you'd like to gripe about?
Job well done. I can only hope to be that good one day.
GAZERK said:
I wish I could say it was all skill, but getting the big boss badge is more about persistence and getting down a routine. There's parts of the game that you need to do perfectly in order to get past on that difficulty. Did I get past them the first time? In several cases no. Did I get past them the 10th time? No..but I was getting it. The 30th time? Finally!
There's a few sections of the game (3 in particular) that are absolute hell on that difficulty and require more persistence, memorization and luck then skill to get past.
Obviously, you do need a certain degree of skill though. Sometimes, even if you're doing something right, some stray bullet or grenade will take you out and you have to start all over.
All I can say though is..don't be afraid of the difficulty. Anyone can do it if you're hard headed enough about it. It starts out tough, but you'll adapt to how the enemy behaves and learn alternate ways of getting through the harder parts of the game.
User 10639
Member
I don't see how that changes the fact that it was a dumb idea poorly executed.Chinner said:
I mean, really. If your main point hinges on the fans, it's not really a good thing if it goes right over their heads and needs explaining afterward for anyone to get the point, is it? I suppose you could shift responsibility onto the fans for not watching Kojima's Making Of document, but that's lazy and absurd.
longdi
Banned
I dun think mgs2 patriots NWO idea is dumb, just poorly executed and resulted in bloated plot holes. A re-write with more Snake will do the trick. The direction of story cutscenes was also poorly executed, too many sappy acting. MGS is an action game not a drama serial!
Obviously KP realises this and return back to form with subsequent mgs games.
Obviously KP realises this and return back to form with subsequent mgs games.
â Narayan
Member
I just hope that, when he does, he realizes that he needs to satisfy himself before he ever satisfies his fans.longdi said:Obviously KP realises this and return back to form with subsequent mgs games.
Listening to your fans is one thing, but catering to them completely will constitute as a bad decision.
ToyMachine228
Member
Anyone else notice the correlation in the names of the Patriots' AI's?
The little intricacies that Kojima works into his games are amazing.
AL,TR,GW, and TJ? Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson? Also the faces on Mt. Rushmore.
Virtua Ben
Member
1stStrike said:
This reminds me of trying to beat Call of Duty on veteran. It makes the game more of a grind rather than being a form of entertainment. I had to make very particular routines that (like you said) didn't work until the 30th try.
The thing is, COD doesn't have nearly as confusing controls as the MGS series does. I'm on act 2 and I'm not even close to mastering the controls. Hopefully after my first playthrough I'll have most things under control. That being said, I have been using tranquilizers for a majority of the game. I told myself I had to get used to not killing people if I wanted to ever do a Big Boss run. I can see those Frogs giving me a lot of trouble with that aspect though...
Thats debatable. I'll give you credit on the execution though, because the pacing is somewhat off and he does pile it on nearing the end.icarus-daedelus said:
The reason why I mentioned it (the Making Of DVD), was because I was foreseeing that he or another poster would come back with the same reply of saying 'you're looking into it too much'. Maybe I didn't express myself well enough, because this somehow got translated into "YOUR MUST WATCH THE DVD TO UDNERSTAND THE TRUTH!!!!", which wasn't the intention. Personally, I thought it was fairly easy to pick up as long as you were paying attention to it because Kojima repeats the things that he wants the audience to take notice of.
ToyMachine228
Member
keyrat said:
That won't happen. They'll do SOMETHING. Kojima will probably actually be done but, I'm sure Konami will do something. Personally, after reading the MG Database, I'm kind of disappointed that I missed out on Portable Ops because I sold my PSP after a year of having it and owning only Lumines and Twisted Metal. I would have liked to have played both Ac!d games and Portable Ops however. And as people have mentioned, they can take the series in a variety of directions now. We'll see what happens.
Not to mention that MGS4 shows that list of MG games and there's two blank slots after MGS4 that say "Under Construction".
GAZERK said:
Yea, I never touched veteran on COD4. Once through the single player on that game was enough for me.
There were parts that were still really fun, but it was mostly a grind more than anything else like you said. Always racing the clock, mashing the start button to skip cut scenes and get to the next part as quick as possible.
Be careful with tranqs. You can't buy them on the boss hard or the boss extreme so you need to be much more careful with them. I managed to get through the game with only the tranqs, vrings for the shotgun and stun grenades I found laying around. You have to ration them out a bit and make use of cqc though.
There's parts where, even on extreme, you can still easily sneak up behind a guard and knock them out without wasting a tranq.
The first encounter with the frogs is tough..the rest are pretty easy. Including act 5 part 1 as long as you aren't dumb about it.
---
Also, I came out of the game understanding how
ocelot was only pretending to be liquid and such..
ToyMachine228 said:
I just feel like I want conclusion. If they keep dragging it out it just gets saturated. Kojima will make more games, and he can reference MGS as much as he likes, I just hope there's no more story for the MGS world. The most I would like is a character who references knowing a character from the MGS world, but any new game with 10 hours more of story will just be too much.
I beat the game yesterday. The only other MGS game I beat was part 2.
I could still follow a lot of the story, and I suppose it's nice for the fans to have closure... but all I (or we) have gotten is a good 4 hours of actual gameplay.
I agree that the production values of this game are high and well worth the 60 euros I payed for it, but I rather have Konami put some production in the gameplay segments of their games.
Next time I want Tactical Espionage Action, and far less Tactical Espionage Lecture.
I could still follow a lot of the story, and I suppose it's nice for the fans to have closure... but all I (or we) have gotten is a good 4 hours of actual gameplay.
I agree that the production values of this game are high and well worth the 60 euros I payed for it, but I rather have Konami put some production in the gameplay segments of their games.
Next time I want Tactical Espionage Action, and far less Tactical Espionage Lecture.
longdi said:I dun think mgs2 patriots NWO idea is dumb, just poorly executed and resulted in bloated plot holes. A re-write with more Snake will do the trick. The direction of story cutscenes was also poorly executed, too many sappy acting. MGS is an action game not a drama serial!
Obviously KP realises this and return back to form with subsequent mgs games.
Hopefully Kojima truly leaves the next metal gear game to someone else. Dude went insane with this one.
The Librarian
Banned
Just got the game last night. I have nothing but praise to offer. The cutscenes are fucking AMAZING. They are the most movie like cutscenes since Mass Effect, love the story, <3. The camouflage suit is awesome, so is the solid eye, the little robot you get to have. This is my first MGS game, and I am really surprised by it. GOTY for me so far.
GAZERK said:
I still don't get this "MGS has confusing controls" BS.
Call of Duty: Hold L1 to aim, R1 to fire (MGS4 is the same).
Call of Duty: Press O to crouch, hold to lay in prone (MGS4 is x)
Call of Duty: Move with analog Sticks (MGS4 is the same)
The only difference there is would be going into a 1st person in MGS4 requires you to push ONE button.
Please, tell me why on earth the controls are 'confusing'. I just can't understand it. At the very most, it's difficult to sneak at times because you have to put slight pressure on the analog stick.
Maybe you can explain in more detail, but I really see no reason to say the controls are confusing...especially when there are tons of games that do the same.
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