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[Shikamaru Ninja]

EAD Ninja - I'm not an expert, but it seems pretty apparent that Gunpei influenced the early games. Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission are two very different games. It's easy to see how one would be upset about the re-imagining of it. Is it just a coincidence or was Yokoi's hand instrumental in making the early games as good as they were?

Already answered. But Metroid 1-3 were designed by the original R&D1 team. Makoto Kanoh, Yoshio Sakamoto, Hiroyuki Kimura, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Toru Osawa, Masahiko Mashimo, Hiroji Kiyotake. This was the core central design team designing levels, characters, scenario, everything.

Metroid Fusion, Metroid Zero Mission, Metroid: Other M were designed by the spiritual successors of the R&D1 team which are Yoshio Sakamoto, Takehiko Hosokawa, and Takayasu Morisawa. After Metroid 3, basically the Metroid designers were spread across Nintendo. Two being semi-retired (Makoto Kanoh, Hiroji Kiyotake).

Sakamoto drafted some designers from the Wario Land team to make a new Metroid team. Takehiko Hosokawa (level designer, game designer) and Takayasu Morisawa (character, background designer) acting as leads.

Personally. I like it. Others may not. But these are the facts at least.

 

[dk_]

This game is so badass in the second half. One of the best Wii experiences, of course!

 

[Scythesurge]

Got to start and put a couple of hours into this last night, and I'm about as split and confused about the game as I expected to be. The first hour or so, with all the opening sequences really left me with a very poor first impression. The controls felt weird in the 3D space during the tutorials, the voice acting and cut scenes are poorly done and it just didn't feel like a Metroid game at all (I've been a Metroid fan since the first game). It felt very weird to switch perspectives during the first "boss," though I was happy to learn that you can dodge while in first person.

After those sequences however, the game really began, and that's when I started to enjoy the game considerably more. Moving from room to room, uncovering items and hidden areas felt pretty Metroid-y, but with a new twist. The movement definitely feels more like Ninja Gaiden than Metroid, but it's not like Ninja Gaiden has poor movement, in fact it has damn good movement. The combat overall is pretty fun, the auto-aim has worked for the most part and the finishers/special moves are fun to pull off.

It's a weird game, but one that seems will be enjoyable for the most part. As a traditional Metroid game, so far I'd have to say it does not live up to the legacy. However, this is a new take on a classic franchise, which is what I was expecting anyway. The best part is knowing that progressing and getting power ups will only make the game more enjoyable.

 

[Mael]

Nothing to do with dialect. Everything to do with lack of understanding of what you're criticizing.

blablabla, that's still not an argument.
And that's not dialiect but dialectic.

Already answered. But Metroid 1-3 were designed by the original R&D1 team. Makoto Kanoh, Yoshio Sakamoto, Hiroyuki Kimura, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Toru Osawa, Masahiko Mashimo, Hiroji Kiyotake. This was the core central design team designing levels, characters, scenario, everything.

Metroid Fusion, Metroid Zero Mission, Metroid: Other M were designed by the spiritual successors of the R&D1 team which are Yoshio Sakamoto, Takehiko Hosokawa, and Takayasu Morisawa. After Metroid 3, basically the Metroid designers were spread across Nintendo. Two being semi-retired (Makoto Kanoh, Hiroji Kiyotake).

Sakamoto drafted some designers from the Wario Land team to make a new Metroid team. Takehiko Hosokawa (level designer, game designer) and Takayasu Morisawa (character, background designer) acting as leads.

Personally. I like it. Others may not. But these are the facts at least.

That explains the change in design way more than the simplistic view of 'better with my Yokoi mustard'.
That also explains the similarities between the 2 series (after all Wario was always a bit big on exploring for secrets, heh).
As it is though, from a personnal preference that's worse than what the original team did (as such it stand to reason that I view as lacking in the newer games and shining in the older would lead me to believe that some element is missing in the new games, since blame got to be assigned...).
As someone interested in numbers I'd argue that the public is clearly not interested in the kind of game they're doing.
Again as it is more people payed to get their hands on Metroid Prime than any other, it's not hard to assume most would actually prefer a continuation to that over the little GBA game they got to unlock everything they wanted in the Prime game.
Heck same with Mario Kart or Mario, especially Mario!
People apparently prefer 2D race-to-the-goal Mario over 3D star-finder Mario, so making more 3D Mario over 2D Mario is kinda leaving money on the table and counter to the goal of braodening the audience of the product they're selling.

 

[radioheadrule83]

People apparently prefer 2D race-to-the-goal Mario over 3D star-finder Mario, so making more 3D Mario over 2D Mario is kinda leaving money on the table and counter to the goal of braodening the audience of the product they're selling.

That kind of assumes taste in one type of game is mutually exclusive to the other.

I'm sure there are people out there who like 3d mario but don't like the SMB style games that much. The 2d/3d games may share characters and characteristics with one another but they are each of them different with different offerings. Better that they continue to try new things, and cater to multiple tastes than to venture down the myopic route of just giving gamers what they think they want imo!

 

[robor]

blablabla, that's still not an argument.
And that's not dialiect but dialectic

My bad, I forgot to add the "ic", it's been a long day.

There's nothing else to be said Mael. It's not hard to grasp, the things you are claiming are irrational and reaching for something that clearly does not exist.

 

[Mael]

That kind of assumes taste in one type of game is mutually exclusive to the other.

I'm sure there are people out there who like 3d mario but don't like the SMB style games that much. These games may share characters and characteristics but they are each of them different with different offerings. Better that they continue to try new things, and cater to multiple tastes than to venture down the myopic route of just giving gamers what they think they want imo!

Yeah huh, how can I put it....
They actually stopped making 2d race-to-the-finish Mario games for more than 10 years...
I mean before NSMB on DS, which is reviled on gaf apparently despite the rest of the world actually loving it, the only original Mario game you had was either Wario games which are clearly no substitute or date from 91 or something

My bad, I forgot to add the "ic", it's been a long day.

There's nothing else to be said Mael. It's not hard to grasp, the things you are claiming are irrational and reaching for something that clearly does not exist.

It's not because you repeat the words and change it a little that it will change anything, I will not consider any of your post from now as long as its still devoid of argument.
I can not be clearer, you either accept it and move on, you can drop it or you can still pollute the thread with posts like that.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The same purists that raged on Wind Waker when it came out and the same purists that hated the idea of Metroid going first person.
Sorry, but purists aren't real fans of the games, they're just people that hate change.

You and I must have a different definition of purist.

Already answered. But Metroid 1-3 were designed by the original R&D1 team. Makoto Kanoh, Yoshio Sakamoto, Hiroyuki Kimura, Hirofumi Matsuoka, Toru Osawa, Masahiko Mashimo, Hiroji Kiyotake. This was the core central design team designing levels, characters, scenario, everything.

Metroid Fusion, Metroid Zero Mission, Metroid: Other M were designed by the spiritual successors of the R&D1 team which are Yoshio Sakamoto, Takehiko Hosokawa, and Takayasu Morisawa. After Metroid 3, basically the Metroid designers were spread across Nintendo. Two being semi-retired (Makoto Kanoh, Hiroji Kiyotake).

Sakamoto drafted some designers from the Wario Land team to make a new Metroid team. Takehiko Hosokawa (level designer, game designer) and Takayasu Morisawa (character, background designer) acting as leads.

Personally. I like it. Others may not. But these are the facts at least.

Going off the names you listed, Sakamoto is the only one who made a Metroid game after Super Metroid that was still involved with the original trilogy. Anyway, I'm off t catch some Z's. I will be back though!

 

[Double D]

Okay, all this negative talk has me really torn. I've now got a hankering for metroid, but I don't know if this game is going to fulfill that. I've played everything up to the first Prime, and haven't touched the other two. Should I just go get the trilogy and play through the last 2 instead of getting this?

 

[AceBandage]

Okay, all this negative talk has me really torn. I've now got a hankering for metroid, but I don't know if this game is going to fulfill that. I've played everything up to the first Prime, and haven't touched the other two. Should I just go get the trilogy and play through the last 2 instead of getting this?

Really, you should do both.
Other M is a great Metroid experience.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Going off the names you listed, Sakamoto is the only one who made a Metroid game after Super Metroid that was still involved with the original trilogy. Anyway, I'm off t catch some Z's. I will be back though!

That is true. But that is pretty much the case for any iconic Nintendo franchise sequel.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Yeah huh, how can I put it....
They actually stopped making 2d race-to-the-finish Mario games for more than 10 years...
I mean before NSMB on DS, which is reviled on gaf apparently despite the rest of the world actually loving it, the only original Mario game you had was either Wario games which are clearly no substitute or date from 91 or something

I agree that ceasing 2d mario development for so long was a shame, but I have to wonder how much of that was to do with the necessary resources of creating the 3d games and ensuring they kept up with the jones'. I also wonder if the lack of 2d games in those 10 years helped contribute to the growing demand for them to return, and the sense of novelty and nostalgia when they finally arrived. You have to imagine that Nintendo assessed the possibility of creating new 2d games sooner. Sometimes a little slumber does a series good!

 

[heringer]

http://g4tv.com/videos/48411/Feedback----Metroid-Other-M-Edition/?quality=hd

I just watched this G4 feedback which was posted earlier and I agree with them 100%. People have legitimate complaints about this game and although there are some elements in the game that deserve praise, any site that would give it an 8.5 or above in a review I seriously bring into question their objectivity. They obviously have blinders on and aren't looking at the facts. It's becoming a lot clearer now that every Metroid game Sakamoto has worked on has progressively gotten worse since Super Metroid which is the last game Gunpei Yokoi worked on. They go from Fusion to Zero Mission to Other M. There are too many flaws in Other M that can no longer be over looked. I think at this point it's probably for the best that Sakamoto look onto the Metroid series from an advisory position. It's very sad and I hate to admit it, but it's the same thing as Iga with Castlevania. They both know the general direction the end point should be at, but they have no idea how to get there or implement it.

Ugh. I hate this narrow "my way or the highway" view. Can't even be bothered to argue with people who think like that. Pointless.

"Hey guys, G4 is spot on because they think like me. Everyone else is blind"

 

[Nemesis_]

I just watched this G4 feedback which was posted earlier and I agree with them 100%. People have legitimate complaints about this game and although there are some elements in the game that deserve praise, any site that would give it an 8.5 or above in a review I seriously bring into question their objectivity. They obviously have blinders on and aren't looking at the facts. It's becoming a lot clearer now that every Metroid game Sakamoto has worked on has progressively gotten worse since Super Metroid which is the last game Gunpei Yokoi worked on. They go from Fusion to Zero Mission to Other M. There are too many flaws in Other M that can no longer be over looked. I think at this point it's probably for the best that Sakamoto look onto the Metroid series from an advisory position. It's very sad and I hate to admit it, but it's the same thing as Iga with Castlevania. They both know the general direction the end point should be at, but they have no idea how to get there or implement it.

What a fucking stupid thing to say.

 

[robor]

It's not because you repeat the words and change it a little that it will change anything, I will not consider any of your post from now as long as its still devoid of argument.
I can not be clearer, you either accept it and move on, you can drop it or you can still pollute the thread with posts like that.

- You state that the game tries to be Super Metroid when in actuality it has superior level design to SM.

- You claim that it shits on 2 masterpieces (I'm assuming Metroid 1 and Super) which in game design proves that Metroid 1 is a interactive mess. It's a horrible game.

- The idea of having to memorize where you have to go in a game that bears identical and repeating environments creates an unnecessary tangent maze that halted and choked the pacing of gameplay. ZM refines it by giving you a well conceived map for navigation and the game does what a Metroid game SHOULD do; focused gameplay on exploration, NOT isolation.

-

And even if you take it in isolation it's basically a game that can safely be ignored as it brings nearly nothing of worth to the series.

Yea, except for sanctioned sequence breaking. One of the most outstanding achievements in gaming history.

-

I mean 1 new power up? give me a break.

It's a remake, most of what was in the original regarding items and power ups wasn't the main offender with the inherent flaws in the original. The new power up gave an extra polish to a punctured formula.

 

[Windom Earle]

Ugh. I hate this narrow "my way or the highway" view. Can't even be bothered to argue with people who think like that. Pointless.

"Hey guys, G4 is spot on because they think like me. Everyone else is blind"

 

[scitek]

Ugh. I hate this narrow "my way or the highway" view. Can't even be bothered to argue with people who think like that. Pointless.

"Hey guys, G4 is spot on because they think like me. Everyone else is blind"

I like the set number he gives for objectivity being questioned. An 8.4 is fine, but 8.5 or higher and you're a zealot! :lol

http://i55.tinypic.com/8zjwy8.png/IMG][/QUOTE]
:lol I'll say this much, Abbie, you're looking way better these days!

 

[Mael]

I agree that ceasing 2d mario development for so long was a shame, but I have to wonder how much of that was to do with the necessary resources of creating the 3d games and ensuring they kept up with the jones'. I also wonder if the lack of 2d games in those 10 years helped contribute to the growing demand for them to return, and the sense of novelty and nostalgia when they finally arrived. You have to imagine that Nintendo assessed the possibility of creating new 2d games sooner. Sometimes a little slumber does a series good!

Well it certainly helped Metroid in the past, I mean look at Metroid Prime!
Or even Donkey Kong, I mean the whole Donkey Kong Country was actually reviving the age old Donkey Kong casts after all.
But that's not even what they did, they wanted 2d Mario people to transition to 3D, that clearly never happened.
We'll see if people will even transition from Prime type experience to Other M experience, before even thinking of broadening the audience.
And seriously when you look at the numbers you don't actually sleep on that much potential money for such a long time, that's borderline irrational.
I guess the competitors really are thankfull for that though

 

[_Alkaline_]

robor, I like you dude, but I gotta pick out some points in that post.

The original Metroid a mess? Unless mess means good game that is still worth playing now even if it has been surpassed by nearly all of its sequels, then no.

Zero Mission's map being well-conceived and a good thing for the franchise? Perhaps it was good for the mainstream crowd but the experimentation and confusion of past Metroid games was gone. It was like having the hint system turned on in the Prime games, except you couldn't turn it off. Your only choice is to look away from the screen.

I agree that the general notion of Metroid being founded on isolation is ill-conceived - it's merely an element of the games, not its focus. But I think you're too far on the other side of the spectrum.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

http://i55.tinypic.com/8zjwy8.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
stay classy. :|

 

[Desiato]

I just beat it, fantastic game.

Spoiler

Now I'm back on the ship looking for "something that can't be replaced". I'll look for some more items first though.

And one question: whatever happened to the Deleter?

 

[robor]

robor, I like you dude, but there are some bad points in that post. :lol

The original Metroid a mess? Unless mess means good game that is still worth playing now even if it has been surpassed by nearly all of its sequels, then no.

Zero Mission's map being well-conceived and a good thing for the franchise? Perhaps it was good for the mainstream crowd but the experimentation and confusion of past Metroid games was gone. It was like having the hint system turned on in the Prime games, except you couldn't turn it off. Your only choice is to look away from the screen.

I agree that the general notion of Metroid being founded on isolation is ill-conceived - it's merely an element of the games, not its focus. But I think you're too far on the other side of the spectrum.

Metroid 1 has repeating corridors, long and obtrusive environments while exploring, which if you find you are heading the wrong way, you have to needlessly backtrack through a repetitive environment. There is no map and because there are repeating environments, you can easily get lost, which absolutely destroys the pacing. Followed by abusive punishments, it's a horrible game. I have no idea why anyone would want to go through arbitrary "shortcuts" just to enjoy something that clearly lacked integral design to alleviate glaring flaws in the game.

Why do you think they added a map in Super Metroid?

Why do you think they remade Metroid 1 in the first place?

 

[donkey show]

I just beat it, fantastic game.

Spoiler

Now I'm back on the ship looking for "something that can't be replaced". I'll look for some more items first though.

And one question: whatever happened to the Deleter?

Spoiler

He, being James, was killed by MB.

Also, almost done with my third run at the game. I've started post game at 4:54 with 51%. Hopefully I can get 100% under six hours. It's been a really sloppy run though considering I beat hard mode at 4:24, lol.

 

[gdt]

http://i55.tinypic.com/8zjwy8.png

Yes, this really supports your argument.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Metroid 1 has repeating corridors, long and obtrusive environments while exploring, which if you find you are heading the wrong way, you have to needlessly backtrack through a repetitive environment. There is no map and because there are repeating environments, you can easily get lost, which absolutely destroys the pacing. Followed by abusive punishments, it's a horrible game. I have no idea why anyone would want to go through arbitrary "shortcuts" just to enjoy something that clearly lacked integral design to alleviate glaring flaws in the game.

Why do you think they added a map in Super Metroid?

Why do you think they remade Metroid 1 in the first place?

Sigh.

There's no doubt that the original Metroid is a confusing beast, but it rewards experimentation as well as the ability to learn and memorize each environment. Metroid II followed suit. Both games were designed to be confusing and ask a lot of the player - it was a design choice and one that, whilst certainly frustrating at stages, heightened the sense of satisfaction upon understanding the world and finding new items. It's also one that has yet to be fully replicated again in the entire Metroid series and, as such, provides a terrific reason for playing the original (and Metroid II) even when superior sequels (and a remake) are out today.

Super did alleviate this confusion somewhat through the map, yes, but it still had its "where do I go now?" moments. I would certainly argue that Super has the best balance in the entire Metroid series in terms of providing hints without hand-holding the player. Funnily enough, at the time of release Super actually copped criticism from some circles for being too lenient towards the player and not fully illustrative of the Metroid formula. Obviously such an argument is rather petty given how oustanding a game Super is and how much of an improvement it was over the first two Metroid titles, but it still maintains a (very slight) degree of validity.

Zero Mission was made for several reasons - firstly, because Nintendo felt the game was not overly approachable to new gamers. This was fine. Doesn't mean the original is not a good game. They just thought it was too difficult and confusing for newcomers and had the opportunity to present the game again with a more lenient design (unfortunately, they went too far in this direction). The game was also remade because Sakamoto had a certain vision for Samus' first real mission that was not fully achievable on the NES. He created the Manga alongside Zero Mission in order to fully realise his vision for both Samus' past and her first foray on Zebes.

 

[Boney]

People that want to move sideways and backwards while shooting bug the fuck out of me.

 

[Mael]

- You state that the game tries to be Super Metroid when in actuality it has superior level design to SM.

Whether or it has a better level design, I will not argue here. But the fact that it actually tries to be something that exists already is a pretty big problem especially since that's not the game it SHOULD be trying to be.
I mean the game IS Metroid 1, NOT Metroid 3. It SHOULD NOT try to be something else.
That's like saying the remake of Zelda 1 is awesome because it features everything that made AlttP great while totally forgetting what made Zelda 1 good!
If they wanted to sell a Super Metroid remake, that's what they should have done instead of trying to pass something for what it's not.

- You claim that it shits on 2 masterpieces (I'm assuming Metroid 1 and Super) which in game design proves that Metroid 1 is a interactive mess. It's a horrible game.

It's quite clearly not, you can consider it unplayable by your standard that doesn't mean the game is universally bad. Heck the game is unforgiving and all (and actually requires quite a bit on the player) but it's very far from bad. Archaic in some cases, not even close to being bad. The only flaw they had to really get rid was the unfair save system that proved to be a bit to harsh for newer audience, the rest is not that much of a problem if any at all.

- The idea of having to memorize where you have to go in a game that bears identical and repeating environments creates an unnecessary tangent maze that halted and choked the pacing of gameplay. ZM refines it by giving you a well conceived map for navigation and the game does what a Metroid game SHOULD do; focused gameplay on exploration, NOT isolation.

Did you actually play Metroid 1? It's one of the games with most varied environement for its time. Despite all the black backgrounds, every single place is unique in its ways.
You didn't really need to actually remember where you went, usually just stumbling on a room where your powerup can be useful is enough, it's not like the gameworld is the size of your typical Zelda either.
The game actually tries to kill the player (something that is sorely lacking in Metroid since Metroid 2 actually).
Zero Mission is really a theme park ride in comparison, you're not allowed to get lost and you get to view some interesting wildlife while passing through the game. There's little if any tension (something Fusion actually had => SA-X, although a little more frequent and a little less scripted would have been nice). And dear god, don't use the excuse of 'avoid power ups to make the game harder', you only do that in replays when you actually enjoyed the game before anyway (how the fuck would you know you're not missing something vital anyway?).
Zero Mission actually managed to make Zebes's planet feels like some planet that was less deadly than anything I've ever seen in Metroid (even Hunters and this one didn't even try), what's the point in playing a lone bounty hunter on some deadly dangerous mission if the danger is not even here?
Why should I care about Samus's mission when it proves to be so easy?
The map system would be better if it was akin to Etrian Odyssey but I'll give it a pass.

- Yea, except for sanctioned sequence breaking. One of the most outstanding achievements in gaming history.

Says who? I'll argue that it's a nice extention on the way to play a game but hardly that is so vital in Metroid (or heck why did they close it off in Fusion heh?). And anyway it's not remotely anything new since you could SB in the very first Metroid anyway (and in SM, Prime to an extent...)!

- It's a remake, most of what was in the original regarding items and power ups wasn't the main offender with the inherent flaws in the original. The new power up gave an extra polish to a punctured formula.

Execpt really there wasn't that much flaw in the power ups to begin with.
I mean what's not to love in the screw attack? the varia suit? the ice beam?
The new power ups actually were just stuffs we'd seen before in other games, meaning that by the time the game is over you'll have no surprise whatsoever in what powerup you got (and they couldn't even keep the one that changed everything : the spider ball, although redundant with the space jump).
Heck in the Prime series (even hunters!) they understood that people were getting a bit sick of always getting the same stuffs (or maybe not come to think of it)

 

[AceBandage]

People that want to move sideways and backwards while shooting bug the fuck out of me.

Circle strafe = instant win?

 

[Kai Dracon]

People that want to move sideways and backwards while shooting bug the fuck out of me.

Personally, I am profoundly suspicious about people who also want to sit down, stand on their heads, and clip toenails with their off-hand while shooting.

 

[Bisnic]

I can't be the only one who think this game's map is horrible? It is such a mess to understand. What i see on my map and what i see on my mini-map are not even the same.

 

[Boney]

It's such backwards thinking. It doesn't make sense at all.

 

[donkey show]

For those who don't like the game, I'd love to somehow see vids of how you guys are playing.

 

[heringer]

Sigh.

There's no doubt that the original Metroid is a confusing beast, but it rewards experimentation as well as the ability to learn and memorize each environment. Metroid II followed suit. Both games were designed to be confusing and ask a lot of the player - it was a design choice and one that, whilst certainly frustrating at stages, heightened the sense of satisfaction upon understanding the world and finding new items. It's also one that has yet to be fully replicated again in the entire Metroid series and, as such, provides a terrific reason for playing the original (and Metroid II) even when superior sequels (and a remake) are out today.

So repeating environments were made by a design choice, to confuse gamers and reward them with the ability to memorize everything? I dunno, I have a hard time believing that.

 

[_Alkaline_]

So repeating environments were made by a design choice, to confuse gamers and reward them with the ability to memorize everything? I dunno, I have a hard time believing that.

I'd say the repeating environments/sprites were more a limitation of the NES (or at least of the developers' handle of the NES at the time, considering it was an early title) but the complexity of the areas was still a design decision, particularly in vertical corridors having multiple doors and the many hidden bombable areas.

 

[Mejilan]

Didn't get a chance to play Tuesday night, but I did add another 1.5 hours last night to Monday's hour. Game is not getting any better. Still hate the controls, linearity, lack of music, shittified chimes/jingles, etc. Still kind of hoping that it'll grow into a flawed classic, but it's looking less likely.

I think I'm approaching the end of Sector 1. I just got the first beam upgrade and unlocked a door earlier in the sector. Strangely, I didn't really find any way to progress beyond the area that door leads to, but I didn't try too hard since by that point, I had had enough of the game.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'd say the repeating environments/sprites were more a limitation of the NES (or at least of the developers' handle of the NES at the time, considering it was an early title) but the complexity of the areas was still a design decision, particularly in vertical corridors having multiple doors and the many hidden bombable areas.

So... just like Metroid: Zero Mission, which has both that AND actually good controls.

(MZM is the best Metroid game, you guys are reminding me of a hilariously ignorant and error-ridden post that Whats-His-Face Malstrom just wrote)

 

[radioheadrule83]

Didn't get a chance to play Tuesday night, but I did add another 1.5 hours last night to Monday's hour. Game is not getting any better. Still hate the controls, linearity, lack of music, shittified chimes/jingles, etc. Still kind of hoping that it'll grow into a flawed classic, but it's looking less likely.

I think I'm approaching the end of Sector 1. I just got the first beam upgrade and unlocked a door earlier in the sector. Strangely, I didn't really find any way to progress beyond the area that door leads to, but I didn't try too hard since by that point, I had had enough of the game.

If you want to know the solution in that room:

Spoiler

morph ball bomb the wall where there's a glitch in the hologram... you wouldn't know to attack that area of the wall unless you turned on the hologram foliage first

It was after that upgrade that I really started to get a kick out of it actually. You're coming up to a Lab soon, and that's where I felt like the game was only just starting to get going. Stick with it, its good!

 

[Tadale]

I really have a hard time understanding all the negativity. I haven't had a single problem with the controls, and even though the game is fairly linear, there's still enough exploration and what I consider to be creative puzzles that it feels like classic Metroid. And besides the embarrassing thumbs down thing, the story has been absolutely fine. I'm only about 5 hours in, and maybe my expectations have been adjusted by all the negative talk, but I'm really enjoying it so far.

 

[giggas]

Didn't get a chance to play Tuesday night, but I did add another 1.5 hours last night to Monday's hour. Game is not getting any better. Still hate the controls, linearity, lack of music, shittified chimes/jingles, etc. Still kind of hoping that it'll grow into a flawed classic, but it's looking less likely.

I think I'm approaching the end of Sector 1. I just got the first beam upgrade and unlocked a door earlier in the sector. Strangely, I didn't really find any way to progress beyond the area that door leads to, but I didn't try too hard since by that point, I had had enough of the game.

Did this exact part last night. I made it through where you're stuck (see the hint above) and saved as soon as I could.

I'm actually really enjoying the game at this point. The only stand out crappy thing for me is when you're forced to look for a pixel and point at it. That is easily the worst. But I'm loving the action and I don't mind how the game is progressing either, it just feels a lot like Fusion.

Oh and I agree that the lack of music is a let down. The music was always one of the best parts of these games. Even Metroid II has way more interesting music than this game (though I think the music in Metroid II is secretly genius).

 

[_Alkaline_]

So... just like Metroid: Zero Mission, which has both that AND actually good controls.

(MZM is the best Metroid game, you guys are reminding me of a hilariously ignorant and error-ridden post that Whats-His-Face Malstrom just wrote)

Well, the original did it first, so it deserves appreciation for that. And the original still has a level of complexity and hostility that any other other 2D Metroid - other than perhaps Metroid II. Being able to master Zebes and overcome environments and enemies is primarily what makes the original Metroid still worth playing - it's a considerable (and considerably fun) challenge. As well as the fantasic moody soundtrack by Hip Tanaka, of course.

Also, not sure where the control complaints are coming from. Samus is a bit floaty yes, but she was floaty in Super as well, and for an early NES game Samus controls fine. He's nimble and easy to manouever in the air. The only real issue is not being able to shoot at enemies on the ground, which is admittedly a considerable issue but laying bombs helps ease the situation. Plus, IIRC only zoomers can't be shot at on the ground - the other enemies are big enough to shoot normally.

As for Zero Mission being the best Metroid game, opinions are opinions. I will say that it has several environmental puzzles that rank among the best in 2D Metroid games, for me it's slightly too hand-holding and easy an affair to be as memorable as Super. In addition, though novel and fun, the end sequence lacks the polish of a typical 2D Metroid game.

 

[robor]

Whether or it has a better level design, I will not argue here. But the fact that it actually tries to be something that exists already is a pretty big problem especially since that's not the game it SHOULD be trying to be.
I mean the game IS Metroid 1, NOT Metroid 3. It SHOULD NOT try to be something else.
That's like saying the remake of Zelda 1 is awesome because it features everything that made AlttP great while totally forgetting what made Zelda 1 good!
If they wanted to sell a Super Metroid remake, that's what they should have done instead of trying to pass something for what it's not.

Uh, SM follows Metroid 1's core design. It has an inherent relationship with exploitative gameplay, much like Metroid 1. It is also known as iterative design. The most basic approach to good game design.

It's quite clearly not, you can consider it unplayable by your standard that doesn't mean the game is universally bad. Heck the game is unforgiving and all (and actually requires quite a bit on the player) but it's very far from bad. Archaic in some cases, not even close to being bad. The only flaw they had to really get rid was the unfair save system that proved to be a bit to harsh for newer audience, the rest is not that much of a problem if any at all.

NEVER said it was unplayable. I more so implied it was unbearable, which it is. I do not consider it a worthy game in the franchise because of the main factors stated in my recent post. It's a NES game, and most importantly, it was an experiment of which many more mechanics were implemented and refined later on. Young devs = inexperienced in game design at the current time. It was not unpopular in the NES period.

Did you actually play Metroid 1? It's one of the games with most varied environment for its time. Despite all the black backgrounds, every single place is unique in its ways.
You didn't really need to actually remember where you went, usually just stumbling on a room where your powerup can be useful is enough, it's not like the gameworld is the size of your typical Zelda either.
The game actually tries to kill the player (something that is sorely lacking in Metroid since Metroid 2 actually).

Yes I have played the game, how else would I go into such details? We most certainly experienced it differently, that's for sure. Because there was a lack of definition in ALOT of environments in that game, and I found the navigability to be archaic and problematic at best.

And dear god, don't use the excuse of 'avoid power ups to make the game harder', you only do that in replays when you actually enjoyed the game before anyway (how the fuck would you know you're not missing something vital anyway?).
Zero Mission actually managed to make Zebes's planet feels like some planet that was less deadly than anything I've ever seen in Metroid (even Hunters and this one didn't even try), what's the point in playing a lone bounty hunter on some deadly dangerous mission if the danger is not even here?
Why should I care about Samus's mission when it proves to be so easy?
The map system would be better if it was akin to Etrian Odyssey but I'll give it a pass.

I did not state that sequence breaking gives leeway for making the game harder (even though it is challenging). Ever. The game has difficulty settings, from easy - normal - hard. Sequence breaking however, is an important aspect in the Metroid games and was found by accident.....until Zero Mission which openly embraced it. This is a great feature to the series because it divides the main experience with the possible pathways to enrich the longevity in the game.

Says who? I'll argue that it's a nice extention on the way to play a game but hardly that is so vital in Metroid (or heck why did they close it off in Fusion heh?). And anyway it's not remotely anything new since you could SB in the very first Metroid anyway (and in SM, Prime to an extent...)!

Well a lot of Metroid fans would seriously disagree with you, vehemently. Fusion on the other hand is completely different type of Metroid game following a different core design from Metroid 1.

Except, again, it was not intentional by the developer. In ZM, they intentionally molded the levels AROUND sequence breaking. Yes the other games have it, but by level design, it is superior in ZM.

Execpt really there wasn't that much flaw in the power ups to begin with.

I never said there was, it was the one thing that carried over into the sequels, it was the right design choice at the time and still is now.

 

[Boney]

Ok guys, I'm having issues countering whenever they grab me. What am I supposed to press to kick them back?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

EAD Ninja - I'm not an expert, but it seems pretty apparent that Gunpei influenced the early games. Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission are two very different games. It's easy to see how one would be upset about the re-imagining of it. Is it just a coincidence or was Yokoi's hand instrumental in making the early games as good as they were?

Gunpei was just a producer. He wasn't a designer. As I said many pages back in this very same thread, I can only speak of my experience working in commercials and movies. Producers there are pretty much just all about making sure things get done on time and under or within budget. They don't make any creative/design choices.

 

[Red]

Man the ending sucks.

It just goes on and on for like twenty five minutes without any player input at all :lol

Still loved the game, can't wait to jump back into it.

 

[Haunted]

Ok guys, I'm having issues countering whenever they grab me. What am I supposed to press to kick them back?

Who's they?

Just mash the buttons.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

The

Spoiler

white creature thing is creepy as heck.

 

[hamchan]

Ok guys, I'm having issues countering whenever they grab me. What am I supposed to press to kick them back?

Mash buttons?
Morph ball then bomb?

 

[dk_]

Aaaand done.

Credits roll and I wonder, if there's anything to do beside finding all power-ups?

 

[Prime Blue]

Metroid Other M |OT| so guys does it suck?

Metroid: Other M | OT of Sexist Lovers and Analytical Haters

 

[donkey show]

Man the ending sucks.

It just goes on and on for like twenty five minutes without any player input at all :lol

Still loved the game, can't wait to jump back into it.

Spoiler

You're not done!

=P