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[KittenMaster]

I don't know how anybody can play through the long vertical corridor after Kraid with the long column of disappearing blocks and say that the game controls flawlessly. It's just not possible.

This is more of a level design issue than a control issue.

 

[Ridley327]

I'm not suggesting that Metroid 1 was a master class in effective controls (the password entry screen sees to that), but they're rarely as big an issue as some of the game's other quirks. I also do not long for a game that controls just like it; having it available with Zero Mission successfully demonstrated how far game design has come since the early days.

 

[Bizzyb]

As far as the 3D games go, I'd rank them Corruption > Prime > Other M > Echoes.


I do appreciate the 2D Metroids (well, not the original or II), but they're not comparable enough to incorporate them into this ranking.


I would accept arguments that even the Prime games are very different to Other M and shouldn't be compared. Other M does feel like a more natural extension of the 2D gameplay put into 3D. Like a hybrid of Super Metroid and the Prime games.

Prime does the transition to 3D more boldly, deviating much more from the classic formula while retaining the classic feel (which is why it's/they're rightfully considered one of the biggest achievements in gaming).

That order seems about right, though you could probably switch Prime with Corruption without too much debate. Other M feels more like Fusion than Super Metroid. It's a bit too linear (at the moment) with all the "Go here, do this" every 10 minutes. Whereas the Prime games felt like a 3d extension of the Super Metroid Formula where you basically just wander and figure shit out on your own.

 

[_Alkaline_]

People have trouble with the vertical shaft in Kraid's Lair?

Btw, Echoes is in many ways a superior game to Prime. Personal preference is certainly a valid reason to put Prime in front, but in terms of its complexity, the quality of its puzzles and attention to detail Echoes is ahead of Prime. By quite a length actually.

It's a shame that Corruption (a great game in itself) was a significant step down from the depth of Echoes.

 

[jman2050]

This is more of a level design issue than a control issue.

It's a level design issue exacerbated by the control issues. The notable one being what happens when you get hit by something :/

I could also mention the entirety of Norfair, which was fun overall but clearly not designed for Samus's platforming physics for whatever reason.

 

[Scythesurge]

Samus controls quite well in the original Metroid; I think it's important to have some perspective and realize the games' merits in the period it was released. Sure, games have come a long way since then, but it's been over 20 years since that game's release...

 

[Mael]

It's a level design issue exacerbated by the control issues. The notable one being what happens when you get hit by something :/

That's the usual knock back you get on any game, seriously I don't see what the problem is here...
Now Kraid on the other hand...

 

[jman2050]

Samus controls quite well in the original Metroid; I think it's important to have some perspective and realize the games' merits in the period it was released. Sure, games have come a long way since then, but it's been over 20 years since that game's release...

Which is why I said that it was (and still is) a good game that was ahead of its time. But it's also been surpassed several times over by games both in and out of its own franchise.

 

[Prime Blue]

There's some fan project working on it.

Here's the site for it: http://metroid2remake.blogspot.com/

Yeah, I'm sure they will finish it. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Kard8p3]

Yeah, I'm sure they will finish it. :lol :lol :lol

It's almost done now.

 

[Threi]

Other M = Corruption > Echoes > Prime

all 4 are close.

Prime 1 is overrated, not as a game, but with regards to it's position relative to the other two games. It's not on another plateau at all.

 

[Scythesurge]

Other M = Corruption > Echoes > Prime

all 4 are close.

Prime 1 is overrated, not as a game, but with regards to it's position relative to the other two games. It's not on another plateau at all.

Hmmm put that in reverse and that's pretty much exactly how I feel. To each his own!

 

[_Alkaline_]

I'd argue that Prime is the most balanced of the three - it neither approaches the grandiose complexity of Echoes nor the ultra-streamlined structure of Corruption. In that sense, it's little wonder why the average gamer will claim it to be their favourite.

That said, when you weight the three games up against eachother, several things become clear:

Firstly, that they are all fantastic games.

Secondly, that they all bear a degree of continuity but also feature strikingly different approaches to key elements, in particular level design and atmosphere.

Thirdly, that Echoes is the best.

 

[EatChildren]

Well, just did the post credits stuff. I dont even have words to say about that particular encounter. Possibly one of my favourite moments, right there, on the Wii. Goddamn.

 

[levious]

It's almost done now.

how many other nintendo fan remakes have made it to completion?

 

[Boney]

Look, like a month before launch, I too was under the impression that pointer shooting would've done a better job at making fights more involved and allow for specific enemy shooting. But as it stands now, that would be a terrible idea, and anybody that proposes it as the main attack mode should go sit facing the corner and stop having horrible ideas.

Pointer shooting would conflict with all the mechanics that are in place now. Auto shooting works like a dream by targeting small flying creatures. Just stand there and fire away, or keep moving and blast the ones that would've hit you. It works perfect there. When it comes to bigger enemies, at most you only have 3 in the room, and there, there'll constant dodging, meaning non stop charging shots dealing tons of damage. You can work the system and choose your next shot by dodging in the appropriate direction, not to mention that you have 2 other alternatives for specific heavy damage. You can jump on top of them and deal an overblast, or fire a missile blast, since it'll lock-on automatically to the one you're firing and give you one full second of slowdown, giving you more than enough time to shoot your target or dodge if you're in a pinch. Wear them down with regular shots and move in for a lethal strike.

Not to mention that pointer shooting would've made dodging impossible since you'd be more concerned about the enemies position and your pointer, than Samus herself.
The combat system is perfect, comparable to all time greats like God Hand.

 

[donkey show]

Well, just did the post credits stuff. I dont even have words to say about that particular encounter. Possibly one of my favourite moments, right there, on the Wii. Goddamn.

That's where the line "Remember me?" should've been played. :lol

 

[Prime Blue]

It's almost done now.

Stop, please. You're killing me. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Penguin]

So it seems like I've beaten the game. LONG cutscene at the end.

All in all, I have to say I didn't mind the plot/story of the game. Sure it seemed like a B-grade sci-fi, but those can be enjoyable.

And I even grew to like the use of the thumbs up/thumbs down.

 

[EatChildren]

So it seems like I've beaten the game. LONG cutscene at the end.

You haven't beaten the game.

 

[Nabs]

Other M = Corruption > Echoes > Prime

all 4 are close.

Prime 1 is overrated, not as a game, but with regards to it's position relative to the other two games. It's not on another plateau at all.

the complete opposite of me :lol

 

[Space Runaway]

I didn't get to play too much last night but I made it to the point where you are to proceed to Sector Zero. Course I spent almost all that time running around collecting items and finally getting to blow open all those super missile doors. Too much fun. Stupid stuff aside this game has been great. They also sort of made sense of the stupidity of the Adam authorization aspect provided there's no

Spoiler

double reversal "twist" with him

.

 

[Prime Blue]

Edit - I should clarify that I'm curious if Sakamoto himself has ever made comments like this. Is there a link of him doing so?

Sakamoto said he assumed kind of an advising role for the Metroid Prime stories:
"I think my involvement with Metroid Prime II is like my involvement with the first one - I am advising them as to what kind of flavour they have to adhere to, and the kind of storylines possible - Retro Studios comse up with the story and I say: "Yes, it's the kind of story that's consistent with previous Metroid games" or else: "No, it's got to be changed like this". Of course, whenever Retro is working on the Metroid games I need to supervise; I'm the person who receives the reports, to find out what's going on and how the title is progressing."

Sakamoto didn't write Prime (Nate Bihldorff wrote those if I remember correctly), so while he doesn't dismiss the games, they are not part of the storyline he came up with. Which is fine and perfectly understandable, considering he wrote Fusion so many years ago. Doesn't look like Bihldorff took Fusion into account, either.

We do know that the games were written by Retro Studios, but Nate Bihldorff, Leslie Swan, Tim O'Leary, Bill Trinen, and Kiyohiko Ando received credits as writers and editors across the games, whatever that means. I suspect Mark Pacini and Mike Wikan to have written most of it.

 

[Penguin]

You haven't beaten the game.

I get that, also like how they... give a reason for post game stuff.

 

[Magicpaint]

I'd argue that Prime is the most balanced of the three - it neither approaches the grandiose complexity of Echoes nor the ultra-streamlined structure of Corruption. In that sense, it's little wonder why the average gamer will claim it to be their favourite.

That said, when you weight the three games up against eachother, several things become clear:

Firstly, that they are all fantastic games.

Secondly, that they all bear a degree of continuity but also feature strikingly different approaches to key elements, in particular level design and atmosphere.

Thirdly, that Echoes is the best.

Would be true if not for the ammo system, ridiculous key fetching and the uninspired dark world. I am not necessarily degrading Prime 2, it is still one of favourite games! But the overall desgin is noticeably inferior to 1 (though superior to 3)

 

[Nabs]

I'd argue that Prime is the most balanced of the three - it neither approaches the grandiose complexity of Echoes nor the ultra-streamlined structure of Corruption. In that sense, it's little wonder why the average gamer will claim it to be their favourite.

That said, when you weight the three games up against eachother, several things become clear:

Firstly, that they are all fantastic games.

Secondly, that they all bear a degree of continuity but also feature strikingly different approaches to key elements, in particular level design and atmosphere.

Thirdly, that Echoes is the best.

C/S

 

[_Alkaline_]

Would be true if not for the ammo system, ridiculous key fetching and the uninspired dark world. I am not necessarily degrading Prime 2, it is still one of favourite games! But the overall desgin is noticeably inferior to 1 (though superior to 3)

I'll give you the key fetch, which is perhaps a little too drawn out and bogs the last stretch down a tad, but the ammo system is perfectly managable and the Dark World, whilst lacking the colour variety of the Light World, is such a fantastic realisation of Retro's vision for a hostile and genuinely oppressive world that it gets the thumbs up from me.

Other minor quirks - such as switching between dimensions being time consuming and a few underutilised items - do not hide the fact that it takes the foundations of Prime and runs away with them and makes love to them.

 

[MiamiWesker]

I rated Echoes quite low when I played it on Gamecube, but when beating it in the Wii compilation, my appreciation shot through the roof. Its a good, hardcore sequel to Prime. An exercise in masochism almost!

At this juncture I'd rate them
Prime 1
Corruption
Echoes
Other M

Other M is at the bottom there, but I actually love it so far. As for the 2D games you mentioned, I'd love Metroid II to get a remake like Zero Mission. I can't stand Gameboy visuals/sounds! I liked Fusion but the constant respawning X-parasites were not my favourite aspect...

Of the 2d games I've played I'd rate them:
Super Metroid > Metroid: Zero Mission > Metroid Fusion > Metroid NES

I agree with your rankings, exactly how I would rate the series.

 

[abstract alien]

Why am I (boss spoiler)

Spoiler

fighting a damn lawn mower/fork lift hybrid in metroid?

:^/\

 

[Kard8p3]

Why am I (boss spoiler)

Spoiler

fighting a damn lawn mower/fork lift hybrid in metroid?

:^/\

Why wouldn't you?

 

[jman2050]

Just got the

Spoiler

speed booster

I don't know how but they managed to make it just as badass as it was originally :lol

 

[Boney]

The thing is with this game, it really feels like a 2d game. It's mighty impressive.

 

[JasoNsider]

I spoke too soon about this game. I hadn't started in Sector 1 proper yet. That's where the game really starts kicking into high gear. I'm loving it now! The auto-aiming, dodging stuff starts to make more sense.

And holy MOLY, the boss and boss-like battles!! Amazing!!

 

[jman2050]

I spoke too soon about this game. I hadn't started in Sector 1 proper yet. That's where the game really starts kicking into high gear. I'm loving it now! The auto-aiming, dodging stuff starts to make more sense.

And holy MOLY, the boss and boss-like battles!! Amazing!!

Spoiler

The sector 3 (pyrosphere) boss is something out of Mario Galaxy, I swear :lol That fight owned.

 

[MechaX]

Spoiler

1. Prime is not canon.
2. Yeah she freaks out in the manga.
3. She knows Ridley was a space pirate and that he was working with Mother Brain on Zebes in Zero Mission. She would expect him to be there.
4. He appears at the very start of Super Metroid so she's aware he's there too.
5. She not only killed him dead, but blew up the planet he was on. The only thing that survived the blast was Samus (and sometimes her woodland friends).

Is it overboard? Yeah. But it's not too far from the realm of possibility. It is the guy who killed her mom and dad right in front of her and then ate their remains.

Spoiler

This "Prime isn't canon" line of thinking that's going around is heavily misconstruing Sakamoto's words. What he said was that the Prime games were separate entities outside of the main story-line thread of Samus first fighting Mother Brain, then wiping out the Metroids, and then Super and then Fusion. That is true; the Prime games do not affect the main story but are more regarded as self-contained side-stories that do not really impede with the main story (especially since Sakamoto did oversee each of the Prime games anyway). If say... Corruption established a transition for why Samus had to destroy the Metroids in II, I bet anything that there would have been the odd reference to Prime as a result. Just because the game are side-stories doesn't mean that they're not canon (just like how, for example, in the Gundam series there are multiple side-stories that were not done by the original creator of the main timeline, but they're still canon even though they don't really interact with the main storyline).

And again, I'm not arguing as to her surprise for seeing Ridley there as opposed to her complete emotional freeze up. Hell, the Dragon already resurrected once before. Should Samus have had the same reaction when meeting him in Ceres Station in Super right out of the blue?

And it wasn't like she was stunned with shock/surprise in seeing Ridley still alive or anything like that. She froze up, petrified while haunted by traumatic flashbacks, and let Ridley beat up on Anthony and on her until he almost knocked her back in her Zero Suit form. Again, it sets up a bit of a conflict when this is not even close to her first encounter over a life-form she has beaten multiple times regardless of history. Again I ask the question: Are we supposed to retroactively assume that Samus always acts this way when seeing Ridley?

But I am glad he didn't talk, though. It would have been pretty painful if he delivered a take-over-the-world speech on par with Megatron or something.

It's not. You still have at least 3 more hours. And more if you want to do everything.

Hm... That's definitely good.

Edit: Whoa, Samus actually took charge for once!

Spoiler

I love the sarcastic "Any Objections Adam?" *Activates Screw Attack and Space Jump* Jeez, Samus just had a "fuck this shit" moment. I swear, sometimes in this game, a side of the character of Samus that I like shines through.

 

[LowParry]

So let me get this straight.

Spoiler

Genetic Space Pirates and evolving Ridley?

A yes or no question will do.

 

[EatChildren]

So let me get this straight.

Spoiler

Genetic Space Pirates and evolving Ridley?

A yes or no question will do.

Yes. But if you'd like some more clarification;

Spoiler

the genetic material left on Samus' suit from all her Space Pirate murdering in Super Metroid, as well as killing Ridley, was used to recreate them. Ridley was reborn an infant, and grew to the Ridley we normally knew. Baby Ridley!

 

[heringer]

Just finished. 70% in 10 hours. Game is excelent. Love it. Going for 100% now.

Also,

Spoiler

baby Ridley is awesome. I loved this little reveal.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

It's weird to give a spoiler warning when you've beat the game but I'll warn you not to read the following bit unless you've done the special mission afterward.

Spoiler

Please tell me you've done the Phantoon and escape scene part. It's an epic throwback that is very obviously fan service, but I ate that shit up. Phantoon looks fucking amazing.

Yep, it was amazing. That and the

Spoiler

Metroid Queen are the boss fights I was referring to

. As mixed as my opinions are on various parts of the game, those in particular were 10/10 for me. I really, really would like to see a sequel that tries for something closer to Super Metroid (more open, nonlinear level design, classic item acquisition, unobtrusive narrative) than Fusion, because when Other M is on its game it's completely bad ass. It makes it all the more unfortunate when you get to a fuddy-duddy part like some of the over the shoulder/first person/long winded exposition sequences that really should have been left on the cutting room floor. The game bites off more than it can chew rather than focusing on its strengths, but what strengths they are.

 

[Kard8p3]

A couple new tricks from Paraxade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpxf8nHeGS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to4iImtKJMQ

 

[heringer]

A couple new tricks from Paraxade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpxf8nHeGS0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to4iImtKJMQ

Wow, that's awesome. :lol

 

[MiamiWesker]

Post credits stuff

Spoiler

I didn't know you could trigger the end game before getting all 100% items. I was just exploring the main sector, I still have lots of items to find and I find this epic hallway battle, then fight a giant ass Mother Brain thing and then the self destruct starts. So I just turned it off. I am not ready to finish the game yet.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Post credits stuff

Spoiler

I didn't know you could trigger the end game before getting all 100% items. I was just exploring the main sector, I still have lots of items to find and I find this epic hallway battle, then fight a giant ass Mother Brain thing and then the self destruct starts. So I just turned it off. I am not ready to finish the game yet.

You can go back again you know.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Ask him how does it feel to ruin one of the greatest video game characters of all time.

Ok don't ask him that, at least not in those words. :lol

BTW, it was a nice interview. I really liked some anecdotes - it seemed like an Iwata Asks at times!

I've translated some quotes into English:

- (On ‘his daughter’ Samus creation) “Samus being a woman wasn’t really decided from the beginning. She had no genre at that moment. Someone said it could be a surprise for the player to discover Samus was a woman at the end of the adventure. In some way, I was going to ‘have a girl’ completely by chance”
- (On NES Metroid gameplay system creation) “These things are new to people. We were asked to make a videogame with a completely unseen game system. We came up with a pretty complicated / complex game, and without considering the development status, someone had already decided the launch date. Date was close and Metroid was totally unplayable. There was a ‘crisis meeting’ where we discussed how to solve it without losing what we already had in the game. That decision brought the Metroid system to life, with the maze structure, the color doors, the secrets and abilities to gain new access, etc”
- “I’m very proud and satisfied with Metroid Other M. It’s what I wanted to do. It’s different to Super Metroid, I don’t think any of them could surpass the other”
- “People would determine if this is the new way for the franchise. We are not the ones who have to tell them what the trend to follow is, but them to us.”
- “We don’t have plans on any new 2D Metroid, but if the opportunity comes or an interesting idea appears, it could be fun and I’d like to work on that style again”.
- “I’ve been pretty busy with Other M so I don’t have deeply detailed info on the Nintendo 3DS capabilities yet. I cannot give any future details”.
- “I’m very proud of the 1st-3rd person system. I know some people ask why we didn’t include movement in first person. It’s soon to see if we were right (people has yet to play), but those reactions will be important. When you change to that view, it’s more difficult to recognize your position on the map, and I didn’t want to complicate that and keep the 2D essence”
- “With WarioWare you have to take full advantage of the new hardware, but it also has a pretty strong personality. I should think about that new WarioWare that probably would have to come for the Nintendo 3DS and try to add some freshness to the series without losing its personality”
- Sakamoto confirmed that a new Metroid plot would follow Metroid Fusion in the timeline. He also kindly rejected our petition for a Samus drawing: he was surprised we knew his art college studies before being hired by Nintendo, but he said “please forgive me, but I’m horrible at drawing, Indeed, I’m much better at programming! I’m so bad that nobody understands my storyboards when we’re making a game!”

Complete: http://www.revogamers.net/entrevistas/yoshio-sakamoto-pasado-presente-y-futuro-metroid-690/1.html

 

[Wizpig]

The first time you play the title screen (or lack of it) is pretty ugly, huh?

But after my first Game Over i saw the actual one.

 

[Rush2thestart]

I don't see NHL 11 doing big numbers.

I'm guessing 150k for the month on Metroid, regardless. Also, I think thanks to its position next to the end of the year, it'll have good legs. Sorta like Punch-Out (which started at 150k and is currently in the 600k range).

Kinda off-topic, but is Punch-Out!! a million seller or even close?

 

[MiamiWesker]

You can go back again you know.

Spoiler

Whats the excuse the second time, she dropped her wallet or something? Doesn't the place explode? What happens it places you back before you fought it? I rather do it all in one go.

 

[Poyunch]

Spoiler

Whats the excuse the second time, she dropped her wallet or something? Doesn't the place explode? What happens it places you back before you fought it? I rather do it all in one go.

Spoiler

It was the wrong Bottle Ship :lol

 

[slaughterking]

I'm about 3 hours in and...it's not so bad. My expectations were admittedly pretty low, but I'm pleasantly surprised by how well most of the games mechanics work.
My main concern were the cutscenes, though, and while their quality does range from bad to really, really bad I can kind of overlook them and appreciate the game despite them. I think the cutscenes would only be half as bad if it weren't for Samus' inner monologue. It's amazing how this stuff keeps to embarrass me. :lol

Aside from that the game is really best described as Fusion in 3D. And it works for me. I like my Metroid a bit more open, but I still enjoy how the game progresses and keeps a nice pacing with many boss fights and hints of stuff you cannot reach with your current equipment.
And the combat is fun!

So yeah, I like it. Other M will certainly end up as a second tier Metroid and that's not great, but I'll just have to savor it for what it is.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Spoiler

Whats the excuse the second time, she dropped her wallet or something? Doesn't the place explode? What happens it places you back before you fought it? I rather do it all in one go.

Spoiler

It just restarts you at your gunship with the Phantoon fight reset, but with all the items you get and doors you open saved.

It's just like Fusion, basically.