Segata Sanshiro
Member
See, this is what happens when you try to add story to perfectly serviceable video games. Everyone turns into a god damned idiot. EVERYONE.
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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
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EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
etiolate said:
Hastily chosing to forgo independence of operation, strength and equipment in favour of authority, then.
pounch: The thing here is this, I think that because narrative is what I work with and study. It's not a thought that just appeared randomly to me. It's the product of research and study, of having to deal with both sides of the argument. I don't get the feeling the other side of the argument is really questioning their position. I had to question my position to get to where I am, I had to face my ego and my authorial superiority and admit that sometimes what I say I do not have control over. Sometimes there is something revealed in what I say that is true but not intended, in a johari's window sort of way.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
A wizard did it.Foov said:
But what you're interpreting is unnecessary. What your basing on is media that during that point did not necessarily focus on narrative or importance of story, from a company that never really cared about story details, which just released a game that was horribly written.etiolate said:
Even so you're still going to have to deal with the fact that the direction Sakamoto's taking is the direction this series will be taking until he somehow isn't in the position he is in.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Is Joe Quesada a big fan of married Spider-Man?MrMister said:
ok EatChildren, i'm slapping spoiler all over this so I don't have to keep putting in the tag
The issue is Samus being subservient to a federation authority she is no longer required to obey. She is an independent worker from the federation. To be so subservient as she is, powering down her powers and going where Adam says to go is in conflict with her continual pursuit of her suit powers in the games and her ability to navigate entire alien worlds. In comparison, a bottle ship is minor in regards to depth and difficulty of space navigation. Which is to say, Samus doesn't need a navigator. Samus doesn't need a team to acomplish things, since she has faced great odds before all alone. She knows how to get things done.
The reasoning for her to do this is because she wants to show Adam respect, to impress him. Why? She disapproved of his decisions and had some sort of father/daughter relationship. This relationship is not really shown to the viewer, it is just Samus telling the viewer that it exists. What we see of Adam is him calling her a lady with no endearing tone and Samus thinking it means something more. If I am subject to the errors of my interpretation then Samus is as well. Why like Adam? And why trust him as much as she does?
Adam:
-Lets his brother/her friend die when Samus thinks she can save him. We have reason to believe in Samus since we've played her through daring escapes and against all odds before. She is certainly capable.
-Shows disgust in his face towards Samus' presence.
-Restricts Samus movements(this is an assumption as a way to explain the locked doors you've been through) for no apparent reason
-Restricts Samus abilities when they would allow her to better do her mission and perhaps better defend his team
-One of these restrictions is reasoned out that a power bomb can disintegrate humans, so it's not safe. Yet you move about with no evidence of humans. This can be accepted though, even if you do end up using a power bomb with the human doctor next door. The rest of the restrictions make no sense and have no reasonable explanation offered.
-Literally puts Samus life at risk by not authorizing Varia suit in the lava mode, and has due to the possibility of dying from it, effectively put in a restriction that kills Samus.
-Is tied by name to the Metroid project on the ship
-Shoots Samus in the back with a Metroid nearby. This is explained by "I couldn't let you kill it." But then he kills the Metroid. So whats the point?
Adam's redeeming moment is going into the metroid lab and jettisoning off, claiming self destruct and sacrificial heroism. This itself is never shown to happen, only the jettisoning of sector zero is seen. People are already wondering if he escapes and that is the setup for the next Metroid. He reasons that he must do this because the metroids are freeze proof, but he just froze and killed a metroid. He reasons this out that it was perhaps too young to be resistant. The fact remains that you never encounter one freeze proof metroid in this game to back up his claim. It's all hearsay. Even Adam's redeeming moment is highly suspect and as well a reason to not trust him.
So we have a behavior of subservience which is not shown elsewhere which is explained by a relationship that does not show any reason to trust it.
Then you have the Ridley thing, where she's faced this foe before and actively sought out this foe. To have a traumatic flashback doesn't fit the status quo. To turn into a girl and whimper does not fit the woman who goes out alone to face these demons over and over. To explain it by surprise ignores the fact that she's had this same surprise before, and before again. You would think she'd just expect the constant threat of another Ridley after the third or fourth one.
Is portrayed as much younger than any other depiction of her that I can think of. Her voice overs and story reads like a teenagers diary, and I assure you, a teenager's diary is not the best source of truth.
By this time she should be confident and matured, not regressive in maturity and confidence.
The reasoning for her to do this is because she wants to show Adam respect, to impress him. Why? She disapproved of his decisions and had some sort of father/daughter relationship. This relationship is not really shown to the viewer, it is just Samus telling the viewer that it exists. What we see of Adam is him calling her a lady with no endearing tone and Samus thinking it means something more. If I am subject to the errors of my interpretation then Samus is as well. Why like Adam? And why trust him as much as she does?
Adam:
-Lets his brother/her friend die when Samus thinks she can save him. We have reason to believe in Samus since we've played her through daring escapes and against all odds before. She is certainly capable.
-Shows disgust in his face towards Samus' presence.
-Restricts Samus movements(this is an assumption as a way to explain the locked doors you've been through) for no apparent reason
-Restricts Samus abilities when they would allow her to better do her mission and perhaps better defend his team
-One of these restrictions is reasoned out that a power bomb can disintegrate humans, so it's not safe. Yet you move about with no evidence of humans. This can be accepted though, even if you do end up using a power bomb with the human doctor next door. The rest of the restrictions make no sense and have no reasonable explanation offered.
-Literally puts Samus life at risk by not authorizing Varia suit in the lava mode, and has due to the possibility of dying from it, effectively put in a restriction that kills Samus.
-Is tied by name to the Metroid project on the ship
-Shoots Samus in the back with a Metroid nearby. This is explained by "I couldn't let you kill it." But then he kills the Metroid. So whats the point?
Adam's redeeming moment is going into the metroid lab and jettisoning off, claiming self destruct and sacrificial heroism. This itself is never shown to happen, only the jettisoning of sector zero is seen. People are already wondering if he escapes and that is the setup for the next Metroid. He reasons that he must do this because the metroids are freeze proof, but he just froze and killed a metroid. He reasons this out that it was perhaps too young to be resistant. The fact remains that you never encounter one freeze proof metroid in this game to back up his claim. It's all hearsay. Even Adam's redeeming moment is highly suspect and as well a reason to not trust him.
So we have a behavior of subservience which is not shown elsewhere which is explained by a relationship that does not show any reason to trust it.
Then you have the Ridley thing, where she's faced this foe before and actively sought out this foe. To have a traumatic flashback doesn't fit the status quo. To turn into a girl and whimper does not fit the woman who goes out alone to face these demons over and over. To explain it by surprise ignores the fact that she's had this same surprise before, and before again. You would think she'd just expect the constant threat of another Ridley after the third or fourth one.
Is portrayed as much younger than any other depiction of her that I can think of. Her voice overs and story reads like a teenagers diary, and I assure you, a teenager's diary is not the best source of truth.
By this time she should be confident and matured, not regressive in maturity and confidence.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
_Alkaline_
Member
SalsaShark said:
The fuck? The Ridley in the Prime games is the same as that in following installments.
Just because it's a side-story doesn't mean it's not canon and doesn't count. It totally counts. It's just not a big part of the main arc.
I can understand Etiolate's view that Samus has been suggested to be a lone warrior type, who keeps to herself and barely speaks a world, but I would say it's more the restrictions of technology that promoted a stylistic approach than anything else. Nearly all Metroid games in the past decade - not just Other M - have made Samus out to be much more involved with other humans than the original few games did. Super gave some visual recognition of it in the prologue, but Fusion really broke the wall down.
The first Prime aped the approach of Super Metroid, which was interesting given that the technology was now avaliable to have the kind of approach that Other M takes. The other two Prime games began to lean towards what we see with Other M, with Corruption being more notable in this regard (Echoes still featured a minimal approach, but there was significant interaction between her and the Luminoth as well as the GF).
Looking at Fusion and the Manga, which is absolutely canon, it's clear that Samus was intended for a long time to have a considerable personality. Technology can be assumed to have restricted the ability to explore this, but recent entries in the series clearly place emphasis on Samus having a distinct personality that bretrays whatever the minimal approach to story in early Metroid games suggested about her. The Samus we see in Other M is the real Samus, the intended Samus, and though you can't really be blamed for assuming her to have a much more reserved personality given the minimal approach of the first few games, with Fusion and Other M it is now clear that your idea for Samus is not accurate of the character she was intended to be. Other M is Sakamoto's way of really showing who Samus was supposed to be.
While you may not be happy with this, you can't exactly say that it betrays her previous 'character.' Samus had no character - both because of technology, and with the Prime series because Retro did not want to change anything up, instead preferring to stick to the same elements of Super (and even then, as I said, Echoes and in particular Corruption hinted at the kind of personality she has in Fusion and Other M).
Shin Kojima
Banned
Haunted said:
Because I finished Metroid II recently I just tried laying rapid bombs the first couple of times since that's what you had to do in II 
I got it immediately. Not sure what it was about the last scene beforekiryogi said:
she swallows you, but it indicated to me that power bombs would then be unlocked. I don't remember if Samus says something in particular or just makes a certain motion, but I realized it as soon as that scene was over and the fight started up again.
So, I've played the game up until you get the
upgrade (thanks, Adam, I didn't need that at all 30 minutes ago...) and this is a very... bipolar game. When it's good, it's awesome, which is most of the time. The fighting is good, the bosses are fun and the platforming and exploration works well. I don't think jumping on an enemy's head and delivering a point blank charge shot will ever get old.
But when it's bad, it's bad. The pixel hunts in particular. "You are now supposed to look at some thing. No, we're not going to say what it is, or give any hint." That and some of the story. Samus really over-narrates this. Some exposition is okay, but some times I wish she'd just shut up. The funny thing is that her voice when speaking to others is perfectly fine. The powerups are a bit sad, too. Okay, I get that missiles don't need to go into the hundreds when you've got Concentration, and with the charge beam focus of the game, the Accel Charges are handy. But the Energy parts? That reeks of needless padding of the item count, when there are several minor things you could have made upgrades for, like the ability to hold a charge when damaged, Concentration speed up, or upgrades to the Sense move dodge, like getting bonuses for chaining them, such as +5 Energy for a dodge. That could have been useful.
Still, I'm not through the game yet, so I maybe I do run into something like that. I haven't had much control problems, and I think a lot of these could be user error.
Varia Suit
But when it's bad, it's bad. The pixel hunts in particular. "You are now supposed to look at some thing. No, we're not going to say what it is, or give any hint." That and some of the story. Samus really over-narrates this. Some exposition is okay, but some times I wish she'd just shut up. The funny thing is that her voice when speaking to others is perfectly fine. The powerups are a bit sad, too. Okay, I get that missiles don't need to go into the hundreds when you've got Concentration, and with the charge beam focus of the game, the Accel Charges are handy. But the Energy parts? That reeks of needless padding of the item count, when there are several minor things you could have made upgrades for, like the ability to hold a charge when damaged, Concentration speed up, or upgrades to the Sense move dodge, like getting bonuses for chaining them, such as +5 Energy for a dodge. That could have been useful.
Still, I'm not through the game yet, so I maybe I do run into something like that. I haven't had much control problems, and I think a lot of these could be user error.
â Narayan
Member
Adam just had to take a dump.Teknoman said:
RPG_Fanatic
Member
etiolate said:
The idea that Samus to do whatever she wants whenever she wants is stupid. The Galactic Federation is the governing force in the Metroid Universe. Just because she is a freelance bounty hunter does not mean she is above the laws the Galactic Federation creates. The Galactic Federation arrive at the bottle ship first, and it is their mission. The bottle ship is a Galactic Federation vessel, so Samus has no right to do whatever she wants in it, without Galactic Federation authorization.
Samus doesn't have to stay, but does so because she wants to protect the soldiers, so she follows Adam's orders.
Don't forget that Adam was also talked about in Metroid fusion. Samus words in this game mirror her words from Metroid Fusion.
As for the flashback where Adam let his brother die. Don't forget that Samus is not a bounty hunter yet, and therefore has yet to perform a daring escape. Also, her daring escape were done solo, without someone else having to keep up with her.
Samus's movement is restricted because there is no need to have her go everywhere when Adam has other soldiers to divide the workload. It is just the same as fusion in order design the flow of the game.
The restriction on weapons is nothing more that a plot device so that Samus does not lose all her weapons at the beginning of the game. There is no reason to read to much into it.
Samus doesn't have to stay, but does so because she wants to protect the soldiers, so she follows Adam's orders.
Don't forget that Adam was also talked about in Metroid fusion. Samus words in this game mirror her words from Metroid Fusion.
As for the flashback where Adam let his brother die. Don't forget that Samus is not a bounty hunter yet, and therefore has yet to perform a daring escape. Also, her daring escape were done solo, without someone else having to keep up with her.
Samus's movement is restricted because there is no need to have her go everywhere when Adam has other soldiers to divide the workload. It is just the same as fusion in order design the flow of the game.
The restriction on weapons is nothing more that a plot device so that Samus does not lose all her weapons at the beginning of the game. There is no reason to read to much into it.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Teknoman said:
The underlying logic of the varia suit delay is sound from a gameplay standpoint. Yes it is for tension. But of all the "authorization" moments in the game, it's by far the most poorly written. There could have been a number of excuses for why varia activation is delayed. And having Samus say nothing, give no comment, not even her otherwise omnipresent narration - that's actually weird in the context of Other M's style.
robor
Member
farnham said:
It's like he forgets that his logic is lapsed between periods of Samus's life. When she was younger (before Metoird 1, 2 and 3), she was involved in GF. It's an exposition of her past that leads to the present bounty hunter that she has become. The other factor lies in the emotional state of Samus and how it's almost impossible to elicit adequately through interactivity.
The Prime games count, Nintendo wanted to make a Metroid game before Metroid 2 since thanks to that game like every Metroid is basically dead and Prime sounds better than Metroid 1.25, Metroid 1.5 & Metroid 1.75. We get the point, some of you people just can't accept than a couple of Metroid games play from the first person view but that's not an excuse to shit on the Prime series.
Maybe YOU didn't like it but it's still very much part of the main series.
Maybe YOU didn't like it but it's still very much part of the main series.
If there's one thing I agree with etiolate on it's that Adam and Samus' relationship didn't seem all that great. So when
he decided to sacrifice himself I felt nothing for him. Etiolate also brought up that funny line where Adam says "I can't let you kill this metroid" but he totally just killed it! Actually Adam seemed like a big idiot the whole way through.
:lol Just when I posted that
theres that large section you have to cross
AniHawk said:
When?
Y2Kev said:
I think Other M and Prime 3 have around the same poly count. It's just Other M has some very low res textures, mainly at the environments. For Prime 3 they already had the engine so they just polished it. I remember Retro saying that the textures were "512 pixels" wide (double the res of the prime games) and handmade. So yeah, that's where Other M fails.
GaussTek said:
Yeah, the textures were really bad. Honestly, the first time since Hybrid Heaven that textures have bothered me like that.
The animation was really nice though. Kinda made up for it since all of the Prime games had these stiff animations that were on a 3 second loop.
hamchan said:
Yeah, but I want to believe it so I will.
_Alkaline_
Member
You have to keep in mind though that Retro is both absurdly talented and has been working with the Wii right from the beginning. Corruption looked fantastic and for good reason.
Not to say Other M doesn't look rather naff at times, but barely anyone sans EAD Tokyo has gotten as much out of the Wii as Retro did with Corruption. And apparently the final version of DKCR will be technically superior to Corruption (and quite significantly). You can't really expect guys like Team Ninja, though certainly talented, to get as much out of it.
The most important thing is that they got the art design and animation right. The former can be debated, but the latter is absolutely fantastic. This is a very, very smooth game.
Not to say Other M doesn't look rather naff at times, but barely anyone sans EAD Tokyo has gotten as much out of the Wii as Retro did with Corruption. And apparently the final version of DKCR will be technically superior to Corruption (and quite significantly). You can't really expect guys like Team Ninja, though certainly talented, to get as much out of it.
The most important thing is that they got the art design and animation right. The former can be debated, but the latter is absolutely fantastic. This is a very, very smooth game.
Rush2thestart
Member
I thought it looked much better than MP3.
Boney said:
hahah thanx, you had to see his face when we asked for that Samus drawing :lol It was like 'damn, how can I explain that I suck at drawing'
BTW, I'm loving some parts of the game. It's true level design is plain, and it's true you don't get the immersion you got with prime, and it's true music is really bad after the first hour. BUT I really wanted platforming, I really wanted an agile, fast Samus, I really wanted some plot and, of course, I'm enjoying the little details for the fans. And in the end, I think the 1st-3rd person mechanic is completely original, fresh and awesome, and that he's right when he says that allowing FP movement would have lost the player when coming back to the third person view.
*goes to play a little more*
Gameboy415
Member
Rush2thestart said:
Me too! I must have an incredibly shitty TV or something because I thought it looked great.
Just finished the game and I absolutely LOVED IT.
I cannot understand the hate from G4 (who cares) and Game Informer (meh) at all.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
So I haven't exactly been keeping up with this thread (6500+ posts) but the general vibe that I am getting from the posts is that it is a good game...so that's cool. How would you guys say it stacks up against my favorite games in the series: Super Metroid, Metroid Prime 1, and Metroid Zero Mission? Would you say that I should go out an buy it now (must play) or wait until the end of October when TRU has its annual buy 2 get 1 free sale?
Rez said:
Sakmoto is only good with general scenario and minimal overt storytelling. Hell the first too Primes did that and they are infinitely better than 3 with story just through visual cues and scanning. It's not that Metroid could do well with a heavy story, even with cutscenes, but outside of Itoi and humorous stories like PM and M&L, Nintendo's writing abilities leave much to be desired. Plus a lot of the humor is the work of Treehouse.
I really don't know about this one. The level design is just so bland. The game had been getting better, but the combat isn't really enough to carry the game (it's sort of simplistic and repetitive). The controls just make me so uncomfortable. I play it and I'm sitting there with my hands all contorted and awkward...I'm glad some of you can enjoy it but I think I want to play MP3 again.
The first person switchery is awful.
The first person switchery is awful.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I'm concurrently playing New-Play Echoes and Other M and if I'm going to make it through Other M, I'm going to need to stop playing Echoes.Y2Kev said: