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[Poyunch]

What the hell is with you and you're changing avatar??

Anyways I can't believe no one else was impressed by At least the textures on the

Spoiler

Green Baby's face.

It seriously reminded me of something you see regularly on the 360/PS3.

 

[Bizzyb]

stealth edit saves the day

 

[KevinCow]

Personally I thought the character of Samus was handled fine in the game but to each his own.

I mean okay I guess if you can accept that the badass intergalactic bounty hunter we've been playing as for 20 years has actually been a whiny crybaby who is incapable of thinking for herself the whole time than maybe they handled the character well.

 

[Poyunch]

I mean okay I guess if you can accept that the badass intergalactic bounty hunter we've been playing as for 20 years has actually been a whiny crybaby who is incapable of thinking for herself the whole time than maybe they handled the character well.

Well she was smart enough not to cause any problems with the Galactic Federation by abiding to their rules since well she was sort of hired by them for this mission.

 

[Kard8p3]

I mean okay I guess if you can accept that the badass intergalactic bounty hunter we've been playing as for 20 years has actually been a whiny crybaby who is incapable of thinking for herself the whole time than maybe they handled the character well.

Since reading the manga I've seen samus as how she was portrayed in it. This game follows the manga in that regard so I'm happy with it. I'm trying to remember a time in the game when she was a whiny crybaby but nothing comes to mind. She also seems to think for herself just fine in the game. She's taking orders because that what this particular mission calls for but she still thinks for herself.

 

[etiolate]

Let us completely ignore 25 years of games for a manga.

Good jon.

 

[Mael]

Well she was smart enough not to cause any problems with the Galactic Federation by abiding to their rules since well she was sort of hired by them for this mission.

smart is not exactly the word I'd use....
And the manga can suck it for all I care, it brought nothing and is worth less than any other game related manga I've had the displeasure of reading.
in short : STOP REFERRING TO THE MANGA LIKE THAT'S THE REASON WE GIVE A CRAP ABOUT METROID!

 

[KevinCow]

I'm trying to remember a time in the game when she was a whiny crybaby but nothing comes to mind.

"ADAM I CAN DO IT! PLEASE LET ME DO IT! I CAN DO IT!!!! PLEEEEEEEASE!!!!!"


Also I thought her characterization in the comic was pretty bad too, but it at least didn't have the awful voice acting making it even worse.

 

[Gravijah]

Let us completely ignore 25 years of games for a manga.

Good jon.

Can't spell mangina without manga! Right, Jon?

 

[_Alkaline_]

Let us completely ignore 25 years of games for a manga.

Good jon.

Oh god.

The same bloke who directed those Metroid games is the same one who directed the Manga.

What the fuck, seriously etiolate. It's like you think that your vision for Samus is above and beyond the vision of the bloke who basically created the chick.

 

[Kard8p3]

Let us completely ignore 25 years of games for a manga.

Good jon.

The manga is canon and written by sakamoto and this game keeps going with the character samus was portrayed as in the manga. Despite what you want to think I've always seen samus as a blank slate in the older games so I'm going with the character she's become over no character at all.

 

[Yoshi]

I'm not too far in the game and I don't like the heavy focus on story early on, but Samus doesn't seem to be a stupid crybaby. Imo it's not a sign of weakness to be critical of past decisions and I don't find it unfitting that Samus as a teenager felt insecure or was rebellious. Being the tough bounty hunter she is portrayeled as in the earlier games doesn't mean she always had to be this way. In fact, I'd find that quite unrealistic. She grew on the consequences of her decisions and became what she is in the earlier games by doing what she did. That does not mean, that she can't question herself anymore. At least, if it did, she would be one sick person.

 

[Knux-Future]

OK heres where I stand on the whole SAMUS IS TEH RUINED debate.

It's basically that your VISION of Samus is ruined. In most people eyes, the whole Metroid kills things and doesn't afraid of anything joke is how people wanted Samus to actually be. So when She isn't like that people freak the fuck out. It's understandable but you have to realize that that never was the character.

Now I don;t know shit about the manga, so while it was written by Sakimoto and all I'll just put it aside in this argument. The fact is that because Nintendo didn't give two shits about story when the first metroid's came out ( either due to limits or Miyamoto bringing the pain), Samus really didn 't have much going for her outside of She has Chozo Blood and is a bounty hunter with a suit of awesome. And most of the metroid games never went into much detail about her. So that left it so fans had to fill in the blanks.

So some 20 years later when they try to input these blanks for themselves people get pissed because it's not how they wanted it.

This is why Nintendo probably should keep there characters silent. People don't know how to handle seeing the characters they grew up with in a different light and because nintendo never really bothered with story that much before.. they either have to continue that ( and get whiners saying that they are stuck in the past) or start to now (and get whiners saying that they are tearing them apaaart, Lisa)

Me? I don't care because I never had much of a stake in the metroid series, so Samus really never had much character to me but I can se why people are mad but seriously just let it go and move on.

 

[etiolate]

Oh god.

The same bloke who directed those Metroid games is the same one who directed the Manga.

What the fuck, seriously etiolate. It's like you think that your vision for Samus is above and beyond the vision of the bloke who basically created the chick.

He didn't create her. The main character of Metroid being female was just a shock surprise chosen by programmers as a treat. By the time the manga rolled around, who Samus is was already created by the games existing.

People act like this was some long hidden dream for who Samus was to be. That's not the reality here.

 

[Knux-Future]

He didn't create her. The main character of Metroid being female was just a shock surprise chosen by programmers as a treat. By the time the manga rolled around, who Samus is was already created by the games existing.

People act like this was some long hidden dream for who Samus was to be. That's not the reality here.

I'm curious...what kind of story with the same characters would have made yu happy..gameplay aside and knowing the whole other M story...what would have made you satisfied?

Did you want Samus to walk up in the bottle ship not giving a shit about the baby metrid that just saved her life and to see her former Co/father figure and go "Yo Adam, I'm happy for you and all and Imma let you finish but Samus Aran is the best bounty hunter of all time..................so get the fuck out or else I'll kick your ass."?

Is that what you wanted?

 

[KevinCow]

Retro did a better job at giving Samus a character in this two second bit at the end of Echoes than any of the shitty rambling bullshit in Other M.

"Yeah bitches, I just totally just saved your planet and your entire species. Big deal. Later."

 

[AgentOtaku]

...my ...my god ...what hath this thread become (O__O)

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Retro did a better job at giving Samus a character in this two second bit at the end of Echoes than any of the shitty rambling bullshit in Other M.

"Yeah bitches, I just totally just saved your planet and your entire species. Big deal. Later."

that's awesome.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

Aside from the great remixes...

This soundtrack is Piss poor :/ , the prime OST shits all over this . Although some will say its to cater the action style game... its still meh.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

individualism and collectivism be collidin' head-on with this game

 

[Koodo]

He didn't create her. The main character of Metroid being female was just a shock surprise chosen by programmers as a treat. By the time the manga rolled around, who Samus is was already created by the games existing.

People act like this was some long hidden dream for who Samus was to be. That's not the reality here.

You mean the three games that had a combined total of 10 words in them?

Gee, such riveting character development.

 

[Kard8p3]

You mean the three games that had a combined total of 10 words in them?

Gee, such riveting character development.

It doesn't matter though because etiolate is clearly right about everything and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

You mean the three games that had a combined total of 10 words in them?

Gee, such riveting character development.

NO GOD DAMN IT DO NOT START HIM UP AGAIN

HE JUST FINISHED PUTTING HIS DIPLOMAS AND DISSERTATIONS AWAY

 

[jaundicejuice]

Shinespark is bangin' yo.

 

[_Alkaline_]

He didn't create her. The main character of Metroid being female was just a shock surprise chosen by programmers as a treat. By the time the manga rolled around, who Samus is was already created by the games existing.

People act like this was some long hidden dream for who Samus was to be. That's not the reality here.

And you know that...how?

Besides, Metroid games were already starting to give a small peak into Samus' intended persona. The NES and GB game ability to explore anything anything were limited by technology - though it can be suggested that the ending sequence of RoS was the first real instance of Samus approaching some sort of character. But Super, though it was not a huge element, gave us the first words of Samus in the form of the introduction sequence. Fusion, which came before the manga, was the first real step into Samus' persona and even though it was not as cinematically ambitious as Other M (for obvious reasons) it still provided considerable insight into Samus and the character that Sakamoto wanted to portray.

Considering it's his first 3D Metroid title, he had now had the tools to really explore Samus as a character and bring to life the concepts that he has clearly had for a long time - as I said, Super gave us a little bit of an idea but Fusion was where he really began to delve deep.

The Prime games are Retro's and as such should not be considered as anything that provides meaningful insight into the character that Sakamoto has wanted to portray. I'm sure he had some input, but evidence seems to suggest this was more along the lines of the overall Metroid world and its fundemental gameplay elements. Retro decided to go with the minimalist approach of Super, but Corruption switched things around a bit.

 

[KevinCow]

I'm curious...what kind of story with the same characters would have made yu happy..gameplay aside and knowing the whole other M story...what would have made you satisfied?

Did you want Samus to walk up in the bottle ship not giving a shit about the baby metrid that just saved her life and to see her former Co/father figure and go "Yo Adam, I'm happy for you and all and Imma let you finish but Samus Aran is the best bounty hunter of all time..................so get the fuck out or else I'll kick your ass."?

Is that what you wanted?

Are you fucking serious? Have you like never encountered a competently written story before? Well I guess judging by your excessive use of ellipses, it's safe to assume you play a lot of RPGs and don't read many books.

Any competent writer could have easily conveyed the same relationship between Samus and Adam that she rambles on and on about through, you know, actual interaction between the two characters. And they could've done it without making Samus look like a whiny bitch. Any competent writer could've taken a lot of the stuff in this game's story and made it far more concise and effective.

 

[Shin Kojima]

...my ...my god ...what hath this thread become (O__O)

Something horrible happened in one of the Metroid anticipation threads too iirc. Then Etiolate got banned.

 

[Gravijah]

Are you fucking serious? Have you like never encountered a competently written story before? Well I guess judging by your excessive use of ellipses, it's safe to assume you play a lot of RPGs and don't read many books.

Any competent writer could have easily conveyed the same relationship between Samus and Adam that she rambles on and on about through, you know, actual interaction between the two characters. And they could've done it without making Samus look like a whiny bitch. Any competent writer could've taken a lot of the stuff in this game's story and made it far more concise and effective.

Hey... man !!! Are you insulting... RPGs ?!!

 

[_Alkaline_]

Retro did a better job at giving Samus a character in this two second bit at the end of Echoes than any of the shitty rambling bullshit in Other M.

"Yeah bitches, I just totally just saved your planet and your entire species. Big deal. Later."

I loved this sequence. Shame about the monster that was revealed when she took off her suit though.

Man Echoes was such a terrific game. Best in the Prime trilogy.

 

[Mael]

Thread being fucking huge and moving quickly this got lost :

I don't think they're boring. Not as great as the prime series, especially 1, but had plenty of variety. Lush jungles, plains, dessert, volcano, ice cavers and mixed with metal rooms that even tell you what they are, like refinery rooms and diferrent stuff. I loved it, where does that leave us?

That leaves us in that I actually went into theses environments earlier in games directed by Sakamoto to boot.
I mean it's not exactly difficult to get that the game has a number of area close to the very first Double Dragon and THAT'S disapointing (even more if you consider that each are worse than than what you'd see in the other 3D games)

First of all, I've never ever once said that Other M is flawless. The grapple beam is the exact same thing as the prime series, so what if you could control the angle in the Prime series, you still only had one way to go, nothing impressive. It's used as a tool to clear chasms that you couldn't before. That's what it does. But here, you ran into them naturally, they're an extension of your abilities and progress. In Prime, it works like "ohhh I kinda remember this grapple spot, I guess I gotta head there", and wander around the map until you find it. Both options are valid and should complement each other.

Actually in Prime 1, the grapple is just you said, traverse to some spot and that's all. You could actually change the directiong and rotate and all (which makes it vastly more interesting than what we got here but I digress).
In Prime 2, you could actually shoot while using it, while not exactly extremly usseful that was progress at least.
In Prime 3, you could do all the above and actually use it to ripp doors and in battle, which actually means they actually thought about other uses for the bloody thing that is getting stale in 20 years.
In other M? back to square one and don't even mention that it could be useful for anything but traversing the 2 spots it's useful for.
That's just an example, there is 1 new powerup in this game : the upgrade to the charge shot. And that's only a variation of what was already the only new powerup of Fusion!

I've always hated the late 80's ski suit that is the gravity suit. I'm glad they got rid of it, it's not iconic. To mark this as a complain is just nitpicking.

It's called inconsistencies, they could have used another tool to serve the same purpose instead being so lazy if they hated the design so much.
Heck that's just what they did in Prime 2! It should be expected though as they seemed unaware what the Power suit actually looked like :/ (and yeah they actually provided a more classical/less sucky design in the manga as well, so no it's not a pb of the rest of the world being wrong it's a case of Other M being deliberately inconsistent).
And what kind of rebutal is that anyway : it sucked anyway I'm glad they did that way, I mean you can just brush off any complaint someone can have with a game :
- Man <X> is unlayable since they changed the camera system
- it sucked anyway, I prefer it that way, stop nitpicking the game!

Please do. Because you'll notice he says "a high tech famicom game".

In which case it fails again, or you'll enlighten me as to what famicon game he's referring. It sure as hell is not Metroid though.

Many are very cleverly hidden. Stop playing dumb, it's the same case with the 2

1 well hidden powerup doesn't make the other 80 ones well hidden.
Even Metroid 2 hid the expansions better.
I don't even need to seek the powerups since the map is so useful anyway. I don't even need to think now :lol

Well yes and no, with an approach more towards combat, clearing room of enemies make sense, and there's still plenty of enviromental puzzles. It's not a game of clear room of enemies, advance, clear room of enemies, advance. It's a great balance between the 2.
One of my biggest gripes with the Prime series, is that it doesn't design the maps as clever as the 2d Metroids. It's always about, reaching your power-up at the end of a branch, make a 180º spin and try out which places you can use it. Other Metroids design it more elegantly, by making the map circle around itself providing you with the new places to use these powerups. You almost always go forward in non Prime Metroids.

It is NOT geareed toward puzzles AT ALL, unless you mean the kind of puzzles we found during Zelda 1 and they never qualified as puzzles as well.
considering how Fusion relies on backtracking most of the time....

Again, don't get me wrong. The Waldo parts are horrible because you have to look at a single pixel in order to advance. It's by far, the worst part of the game. This isn't Prime scanning gone horribly wrong. It's trying to make seamless transitions between gameplay and cutscenes gone horribly wrong. But in game first person works like a charm.

How is that any different? you're getting info from both, doing something similar in both.
Except one is mandatory and the other is optional, how is that any different?
Heck they even used a whole visor for the the fucking scanning part and you can't even shoot, and you compare that to the 1rst person part where you can only shoot missiles and stuff?

 

[fireside]

Retro did a better job at giving Samus a character in this two second bit at the end of Echoes than any of the shitty rambling bullshit in Other M.

"Yeah bitches, I just totally just saved your planet and your entire species. Big deal. Later."

I’m sorry, but since no words are used, we can not accurately determine how Samus was feeling at that moment. The hand signal could have been meant to symbolizes Samus’s profound sadness at being unable to live with the peaceful creatures of Aether, and the regret she feels towards killing Dark Samus, who was, if you think about it, her child. And she killed it man. You just don’t know the depression she was going through.

We’ll never truly know.

 

[KevinCow]

But guys, George Lucas always intended Anakin Skywalker to be a whiny, easily manipulated little bitch. It doesn't matter if the original trilogy portrayed him as powerful and imposing, that was just you assuming something based on his lack of backstory. So you really can't complain about how Anakin turned out in the prequel trilogy.

 

[Gravijah]

I'm pretty sure she's doing the dictator wave, fwiw.

 

[Koodo]

Retro did a better job at giving Samus a character in this two second bit at the end of Echoes than any of the shitty rambling bullshit in Other M.

"Yeah bitches, I just totally just saved your planet and your entire species. Big deal. Later."

God, no.

Retro's story and cutscene direction was such half-baked shit, and to think it only got worse in Corruption.

Echoes is my jam (bitch, please, the mechanics of Dark Aether are better than your favorite game), but I rage every time I am reminded of Retro's storytelling prowess.

I loved this sequence. Shame about the monster that was revealed when she took off her suit though.

I literally gasped when she took off her suit.

Corruption had me gasping continuously.

 

[Mael]

But guys, George Lucas always intended Anakin Skywalker to be a whiny, easily manipulated little bitch. It doesn't matter if the original trilogy portrayed him as powerful and imposing, that was just you assuming something based on his lack of backstory. So you really can't complain about how Anakin turned out in the prequel trilogy.

:lol
That's totally different, I mean Sakamoto is japanese, man!
And he works at Nintendo!
Jokes aside, it's indeed totally what's happening here...
At least there's no JarJar this time (Although Anthony should have stayed dead if only for his lines during THAT boss fight)

Retro did a better job at giving Samus a character in this two second bit at the end of Echoes than any of the shitty rambling bullshit in Other M.

"Yeah bitches, I just totally just saved your planet and your entire species. Big deal. Later."

And yep that's better than anything I've seen in Other M so far in term of characterisation.

 

[Poyunch]

I want to see the Fusion Suit evolve. The arm cannon better look like a freaking mouth of a Metroid next. There's got to be some fanart of that already.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

:lol
That's totally different, I mean Sakamoto is japanese, man!
And he works at Nintendo!
Jokes aside, it's indeed totally what's happening here...
At least there's no JarJar this time (Although Anthony should have stayed dead if only for his lines during THAT boss fight)



And yep that's better than anything I've seen in Other M so far in term of characterisation.

Don't start this shit, please.

 

[Gravijah]

Don't start this shit, please.

Well see, Mael is a frenchman, soooo...

 

[jaundicejuice]

They could have excised all of Samus' narration, cut down the length of the shots, if not outright remove them, in which she narrates and likely would have had accomplished something better than what they currently have. Then again had they actually localised the game rather than translate it it verbatim--I mean, that's the only way I can fathom some of these lines existing--they would have had a better narrative/cinematic experience.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

And for what it's worth, yes, this is pretty much the same as the dealie with Lucas and his characters. All the complaining in the world didn't undo Anakin Skywalker's character, Lucas's word is law, and that's pretty much what's going on here. I don't know why people think making that analogy is such a killing blow to whether or not the creator's word is law. If anything, it just supports it.

 

[Mael]

Well see, Mael is a frenchman, soooo...

Well played :lol
Yeah that was uncalled for.
Still to find differences...

And for what it's worth, yes, this is pretty much the same as the dealie with Lucas and his characters. All the complaining in the world didn't undo Anakin Skywalker's character, Lucas's word is law, and that's pretty much what's going on here. I don't know why people think making that analogy is such a killing blow to whether or not the creator's word is law. If anything, it just supports it.

Oh that's not the problem, it's just that now Anakin sucks.
It's official.
Same with Samus, we all thought that she was something more akin to what we see of the heroine of Alien or something.
Nope she's actually a wimp

 

[Espada]

I want to see the Fusion Suit evolve. The arm cannon better look like a freaking mouth of a Metroid next. There's got to be some fanart of that already.

You're not the first person who wants Samus (and her suit) to manifest more Metroid-like features and abilities. The guy who drew this just took it a step (or ten) further. It's a bit much if you ask me, I'm not sure how many people want to play as a humanoid Metroid Queen.

 

[etiolate]

Cutting down the talking still wouldn't fix some of the inconsistencies like

Spoiler

Adam before sector zero, who has a gun that can knock out Samus and kill frozen proof Metroids, but is "incapable" so Samus has to fight a metroid queen.

The whole thing just screams "we didn't hire a story editor to double check this stuff".

 

[Mael]

Cutting down the talking still wouldn't fix some of the inconsistencies like

Spoiler

Adam before sector zero, who has a gun that can knock out Samus and kill frozen proof Metroids, but is "incapable" so Samus has to fight a metroid queen.

The whole thing just screams "we didn't hire a story editor to double check this stuff".

Spoiler

it's said that it was still an infant, which is why he could be frozen, doesn't explains why a cutscene shot from a puny gun outdoes Samus when multiple bridge-breaking shots from ridley's fire can't even phase her...

 

[Instro]

Cutting down the talking still wouldn't fix some of the inconsistencies like

Spoiler

Adam before sector zero, who has a gun that can knock out Samus and kill frozen proof Metroids, but is "incapable" so Samus has to fight a metroid queen.

The whole thing just screams "we didn't hire a story editor to double check this stuff".

Spoiler

The Metroid he killed didnt have the resistance to ice. He was only able to knock Samus out by shooting her in the back, kind of dumb but not something I nitpicked over.

With regards to the George Lucas comparison, it is a bit different I think. Prior to Fusion Samus basically had no character to speak of. Its not like some radical changes were made to create the character she is in Fusion, the manga and Other M. She was basically a clean slate prior to Fusion, beyond some minor indications of her having some emotions when she saved the last Metroid in Metroid 2. Its not like this was some massive retcon to the character, this has been building for the last decade now.

 

[Ramirez]

Man, I thought the Halo threads get bad at times. :lol

 

[Gravijah]

Man, I thought the Halo threads get bad at times. :lol

Every time I go into a HALO thread that one guy is either coming back from a ban or doing something else to get banned. Last time I went in he was permed for... I don't even know why he does that shit.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Spoiler

The Metroid he killed didnt have the resistance to ice. He was only able to knock Samus out by shooting her in the back, kind of dumb but not something I nitpicked over.

With regards to the George Lucas comparison, it is a bit different I think. Prior to Fusion Samus basically had no character to speak of. Its not like some radical changes were made to create the character she is in Fusion, the manga and Other M. She was basically a clean slate prior to Fusion, beyond some minor indications of her having some emotions when she saved the last Metroid in Metroid 2. Its not like this was some massive retcon to the character, this has been building for the last decade now.

Vader's past was largely a blank slate as well, aside from a few key points we knew about. Like really, all we knew was he was a good pilot, he fought alongside Obi-Wan in the Clone Wars, he was a powerful Jedi, he fathered two kids without knowing about at least one of them, and he turned to the dark side. Everything else was wiiiiiiiiiiide open for 15 years.

 

[etiolate]

wish you guys would stop bringing up authorial intent

William Prynne (1600 – 24 October 1669) was an English lawyer, author, polemicist, and political figure. He was a prominent Puritan opponent of the church policy of the Archbishop of Canterbury, William Laud. Although his views on church polity were presbyterian, he became known in the 1640s as an Erastian, arguing for overall state control of religious matters. A prolific writer, he published over 200 books and pamphlets.

Some history, since everyone hates me for knowing what I'm talking about.

Like many Puritans he was strongly opposed to stage plays and he included in his Histriomastix (1632) a denunciation of actresses which was widely felt to be an attack of Queen Henrietta Maria.

According to Prynne, this was not his intent. He was misread. But shouldn't his intent hold weigh over what people think themselves? Guess not.

This led to the most famous incidents in his life, but the timing was accidental. About 1624 Prynne had begun a book against stage-plays; on 31 May 1630 he obtained a license to print it, and about November 1632 it was published. Histriomastix is a volume of over a thousand pages, showing that plays were unlawful, incentives to immorality, and condemned by the scriptures, the fathers, modern Christian writers, and the wisest of the heathen philosophers. Fortuitously the queen and her ladies, in January 1633, took part in the performance of Walter Montagu's The Shepherd's Paradise: this was an innovation at court. A passage reflecting on the character of female actors in general was construed as an aspersion on the queen; passages which attacked the spectators of plays and magistrates who failed to suppress them, pointed by references to Nero and other tyrants, were taken as attacks on the king, Charles I.[4]

After a year's imprisonment in the Tower of London, he was sentenced (17 February 1634) to be imprisoned during life, to be fined £5,000, to be expelled from Lincoln's Inn, to be deprived of his degree by the university of Oxford, and to lose both his ears in the pillory. Prynne was pilloried on 7 May and 10 May.

"The author says so" is not going to save you from the tower of london or 25 years of Samus not being a PTSD subservient little girl.

 

[Mael]

"The author says so" is not going to save you from the tower of london or 25 years of Samus not being a PTSD subservient little girl.

Especially when it doesn't make sense!