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[MarshMellow96]

Quick question to everyone who 100% this game. How do I get the missile on the very first room? I see a door that leads to it but it has always been orange for me, but I don't see any terminal to open it.

Spoiler

You can get there through a vent that you have to shoot with a super missile a little further on from the first room. It's a room with a table surrounded by glass windows.

 

[Version 3.0]

Yes linear levels are bad game design. Doesn't matter that it naturally revolves you around the map with your newly acquired abilities.

And that shows how much you don't know about game design. That's the only complaint you can come up with? How about this being the worst offender in recent memory with invisible wall usage? How about the removal of control from the player? The shallow, overautomated combat? The intrusion of the story, gameplay-less walking sections, and useless and boring "Where's Waldo" sections into the actual game? The huge, non-adjustable dead zone in first-person view?

Whatever you think of the overall game, most of these are poor design decisions, and the rest are controversial at best. And the linearity that you defend is bad design because it's forced linearity. A game designed as a linear game can be great and feel completely natural (see RE4). But this game locks you out of sections that it's going to allow you back into later, for no logical reason. It doesn't help the story, arguably doesn't contribute meaningfully to the flow of the game. What it does is frustrate the player.

You enjoyed the game, good for you. That doesn't mean criticisms levelled against it aren't valid.

 

[Boney]

Yes I think the game is perfect. It's the best game of all times and it's flawless.

 

[Poyunch]

Yes I think the game is perfect. It's the best game of all times and it's flawless.

Good because that's the only way anyone should like a game.

 

[MarshMellow96]

I can't wait until next week when the new Metroid pet hate comes out. This week it's invisible walls. Next week - who knows!?

 

[Kard8p3]

I can't wait until next week when the new Metroid pet hate comes out. This week it's invisible walls. Next week - who knows!?

The suspense is killing me.

 

[Version 3.0]

Yes I think the game is perfect. It's the best game of all times and it's flawless.

Wow, that's a well thought out, eloquently stated retort that completely addresses every point of contention.

 

[Version 3.0]

I can't wait until next week when the new Metroid pet hate comes out. This week it's invisible walls. Next week - who knows!?

Well, there are so many flaws to choose from. It's hard to pick a favorite.

 

[Boney]

When is etiolate coming back.. at the very least he made things interesting..

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I can't wait until next week when the new Metroid pet hate comes out. This week it's invisible walls. Next week - who knows!?

You don't have to shoot the doors to open them!!

Spoiler

I did anyway for the first 4 hours out of pure habit lol

 

[Kard8p3]

When is etiolate coming back.. at the very least he made things interesting..

You know it's bad when we're asking for etiolate to come back.

 

[Poyunch]

I much rather have this thread die than deal with etiolate again.

 

[John Harker]

Glad to see people are starting to come around and regard for the game is starting to pick up.

Still seeing commercials for it too, which is surprising. Hope that means it's doing well. I don't think it'll do as well as Prime, but it would be nice if it did.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Glad to see people are starting to come around and regard for the game is starting to pick up.

Still seeing commercials for it too, which is surprising. Hope that means it's doing well. I don't think it'll do as well as Prime, but it would be nice if it did.

I saw the commercial before Resident Evil.



Yes... don't ask. I saw Resident Evil yesterday.

 

[Q8D3vil]

is it me or the framerate in this game is not stable at all ( same as god of war 3 ) ?!

 

[Kard8p3]

I saw the commercial before Resident Evil.



Yes... don't ask. I saw Resident Evil yesterday.

Yeah a friend of mine went to see it last night and said they had the commercial before the movie started. He went from knowing nothing about the game to buying it.

 

[Ridley327]

is it me or the framerate in this game is not stable at all ( same as god of war 3 ) ?!

It's not just you; it's been the biggest complaint about the graphics.

 

[Kai Dracon]

And that shows how much you don't know about game design. That's the only complaint you can come up with? How about this being the worst offender in recent memory with invisible wall usage? How about the removal of control from the player? The shallow, overautomated combat? The intrusion of the story, gameplay-less walking sections, and useless and boring "Where's Waldo" sections into the actual game? The huge, non-adjustable dead zone in first-person view?

Whatever you think of the overall game, most of these are poor design decisions, and the rest are controversial at best. And the linearity that you defend is bad design because it's forced linearity. A game designed as a linear game can be great and feel completely natural (see RE4). But this game locks you out of sections that it's going to allow you back into later, for no logical reason. It doesn't help the story, arguably doesn't contribute meaningfully to the flow of the game. What it does is frustrate the player.

You enjoyed the game, good for you. That doesn't mean criticisms levelled against it aren't valid.

I am always charmed by the "you're wrong because you're not a game designer" card.

But sure sport, I'll bite. The linearity in this game is no accident. It's also - try not to clutch your chest - good game design. For this particular game.

Everything in /this/ particular Metroid is focused on moving the player forward. The ability unlock system, containing most puzzles to single rooms, the elimination of farming energy and missile ammunition, the instanced events that change the map layout, such as the avalanche. Collecting pickups along the way - those you have the gear to acquire - is optional, but the focus is kept away from inviting a scavenger hunt. At the same time, the forward momentum and situational linearity emphasize a need to stop and look for what pickups you can along the way, as you'll be locked out of relying on pickups - the scavenger hunt - for a long section of the game if you choose to bypass them.

As a result, for those who go with the flow rather than determinedly force-f**king the game to be Super Metroid, it has excellent, methodical, and planned pacing like a scripted action game without sacrificing all of the play mechanics that make it feel like a Metroid adventure.

Now, its design does not perfectly achieve this goal. The reasons for the Waldo sequences and the over-the-shoulder exploratory bits are pretty clear - to break up the regular game flow with adventure elements, and it's also a gating mechanism. A bigger aspect that nobody has commented on is the over-the-shoulder sequences /also/ tend to lead into major cut scenes, and act as a buffer between 3rd person "imma lil' samus jumping action figure" framework, and giant full motion hollywood cut scenes. There is some elegance in concept there, and a few of the shoulder-view sequences work better than others - including a few where you're forced to walk forward, into a situation that is clearly dripping impending dread and a nasty surprise.

The main problems with the Waldos and the shoulder slow-walks is that they feel incomplete - like partial sections of a more fleshed out adventure element. In their simplistic form, they simply take up time and they're too simplistic to be interesting. But it's not the "ZOMG WHAT WAS THEY THINKING I CANNOT IMAGINE THE POINT OF THIS!" that some folks are reacting like.

So, aside from two gameplay modes - which themselves take up perhaps a few percentile points of a 12 hour long game - I found that for what this game was trying to do, it was rather expertly designed and there is nothing "objectively wrong" about the way it handles linearity. It says a lot about expectations that for many, the only part of the game they'll accept as truly valid is the postgame where you're allowed to clean up the pickups you missed - because then people can force it to be the only Metroid design they are willing to accept.

Oh, and the combat system is more sophisticated than the 2D Metroid games people are holding this up to and judging it having failed. If compared to Metroid Prime - which basically amounts to "lock-on, push left or right to circle strafe, and mash fire button" into bullet sponge enemies - it's still a more interesting and robust system until you get to Prime 3, which did throw some new systems into the mix.

But then Prime 3 is supposed to be the game that sucks according to the True Faithful, because having more and better combat makes it Halo, so whateva the frack Metroid fans :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

you hide behind giant, verbose walls of text Kaijima, when you're not actually saying anything of value or ignoring the rational defenses of the negative and instead attacking the easy shots. Bad form.

 

[John Harker]

Never had a problem with framerate so far.

Meanwhile, how badass is the screw attack? Never have to touch the ground or fire a shot again! haha

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Never had a problem with framerate so far.

Meanwhile, how badass is the screw attack? Never have to touch the ground or fire a shot again! haha

I never noticed the framerate either, to be honest.

It's a shame the Screw Attack isn't an instant-kill, I'm so used to just jumping into enemies with it. When I jumped into one of the spiked rolly-ball guys in Sector 1 I was actually surprised when Samus fell back and took damage. :lol

 

[Boney]

Now, its design does not perfectly achieve this goal. The reasons for the Waldo sequences and the over-the-shoulder exploratory bits are pretty clear - to break up the regular game flow with adventure elements, and it's also a gating mechanism. A bigger aspect that nobody has commented on is the over-the-shoulder sequences /also/ tend to lead into major cut scenes, and act as a buffer between 3rd person "imma lil' samus jumping action figure" framework, and giant full motion hollywood cut scenes. There is some elegance in concept there, and a few of the shoulder-view sequences work better than others - including a few where you're forced to walk forward, into a situation that is clearly dripping impending dread and a nasty surprise.

The main problems with the Waldos and the shoulder slow-walks is that they feel incomplete - like partial sections of a more fleshed out adventure element. In their simplistic form, they simply take up time and they're too simplistic to be interesting. But it's not the "ZOMG WHAT WAS THEY THINKING I CANNOT IMAGINE THE POINT OF THIS!" that some folks are reacting like.

Hey, I did comment on this ;P
3rd person would've worked wonderfully with a bit more tweaking, and it's a great idea at making smaller rooms part of the game. But the D-Pad doesn't really work here, and there's no interaction at all. But apart from the lab part, they're very much welcomed. I said it as well, they're usually used to break the action from regular gameplay to cutscenes and they work.

My biggest gripe with the Waldo sequences is that they don't work as regular first person works by locking on. If they'd have done it like that, it would've worked really well.

Excellent post by the way, I'm just to tired to repeat my arguments over and over again.

you hide behind giant, verbose walls of text Kaijima, when you're not actually saying anything of value or ignoring the rational defenses of the negative and instead attacking the easy shots. Bad form.

My problem is people argueing about what it isn't instead of what it is. Critisisms are certainly valid, it's filled with a lot of flaws, but some people are putting flaws where there aren't any.

 

[John Harker]

I never noticed the framerate either, to be honest.

It's a shame the Screw Attack isn't an instant-kill, I'm so used to just jumping into enemies with it. When I jumped into one of the spiked rolly-ball guys in Sector 1 I was actually surprised when Samus fell back and took damage. :lol

yah haha I'm just noticing this. It instant kills most enemies, but some of the larger ones like the spiked rollyball guy, Samus actually hands on their head and they kind of 'catch' her and toss her to the ground. One of those minibosses just did the same thing to me. It's pretty cool there's entirely new animations just for a late game power up, so it doens't become too overpowered.

 

[rhino4evr]

I'm just starting Sector 3 and even with the flaws, I'm completely hooked. I'm starting to enjoy the combat more as well..

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Kaijima's posts bother me because he isn't actually discussing anything. He's thrusting his view upon everyone else and using long walls of text to distract from it. A post prior to launch by Kaijima would be identical to one as he started the game, progressed through the game and bet the game. But that's fine, I had some discussions all the same.

Let's look at my progression throughout this thread:

there is something inherently frustrating about people defending something that's clearly mediocre by all 2010 design standards

is there any one thing in this game that actually feels inspired? anything that genuinely makes you say "wow this is fun? I'll answer the second one, the control-scheme and first-person stuff does work, it is fun, but it's all a one trick pony. It's like playing a version of Mario Galaxy where all you do is roll on the ball. I like rolling on that ball, it's a neat idea, but after a few hours I'm sick of rolling on the ball.

the story is not great. but whatever, it's not my issue with this game. the amount of time you guys have spent arguing over something so vapid is literally astounding.

there's nothing clever about this game. it just is. had this not been a metroid game, I'd have been shocked to not see it get the usual IGN6.0esque response from everyone and a three page GAF thread.

hmm, that seems a bit extreme, Rez. You might want to reconsider that. Ok, fine guys, there were some good responses.

Some people loved Transformers 2. That's fine, I'm all for people being happy rather than tearing themselves apart arguing over why their tribe plays better music than the tribe across the street.

What those people don't do is post long analytical posts on the internet comparing Bay's work to Spielberg . You can like the trashy cinema, it hits all those notes from your childhood and makes you feel happy to be re-experiencing some of it, but don't sit there and try to justify it. You just digest it and move on. Gamers, for one reason or another, probably because we're mostly introverted over-analytical mouthbreathers, insist on trying to justify this, when in reality all they have to so is either ignore the criticism or just carrying on having fun with the mediocrity.

Other M is, by any 2010 measurement, poorly designed. That might not bother you. You might have had the time of your life. I'm not going to hold it against you. But don't act shocked when others call the sky blue.

Well this is a bit inflammatory! But hey, at least I'm not putting myself on a pedestal and sneering at everyone, I used inclusive words! That means I'm just as much as fault, right guys.


When questioned about the admittedly vague 2010 design decisions, I responded:

I would assume the handsome poster you quoted would have meant 2010 and everything leading up to 2010. 2010 design standards are what they because of everything that came before it.

Then quickly added after a swift Segata intervention

The problem isn't so much that what's fashionable today is the only way of doing things or that they're even ideal, so much as it is 'if you're trying to create a game in that same space today, I'd hope you'd at least try and make it competitive and learn from the mistakes of others, else stand on their shoulders'.

I mean, I guess if you consider a nice cohesive world or solid in-game fiction to be a worse standard than the games of yesteryear, what I'm saying falls apart. I'm not talking about how the game is paced on a beat by beat basis so much as I'm taking a more wide-lensed view of the overall design ethic.

to which Kaijima then jumped in with a post on about page 16X that wouldn't have been out of place on page 67 or 184 and I followed up.

the game isn't "vapid", for the record. the ess tee oh are why is pretty much the definition of vapid, though, as far as I'm concerned. I know this because I just googled the definition myself.

But I'll give you that. Like I said, I really liked the combat, the single Wiimote control and the aiming in first person. The camera is mostly flawless. I had forgotten about the camera specifically when making that post, but it is one of my favourite things about the game and is pretty much on par with, say, SMG in that I never feel it and it works perfectly in relation to the control-scheme.

When I talk about design, what I'm actually thinking about is the way the environments are structured, why they're structured like that, how the player can interact with them and how both progression through them and their very existence are justified using in-game fiction. (EDIT: Coincidentally, Super Metroid and Metroid Prime are two of the pillars in their respective fields in really nailing this, as far as I'm concerned. But don't get hung up on that, let's talk about Other M in a vacuum for a minute.) In that regard, I don't see anything really memorable about any of it. I don't feel like the hallways that connect the impressive hologram rooms are unique. In fact, the big hologram rooms just serve as a way of highlighting what this game isn't.

Bad, no. Just not actually admirable in any way, from my perspective.

Hey, look at that. With time I have reflected and actually came to a different conclusion from where I started. This post wouldn't have made sense on Page 140something, but on Page 170something it made sense because we had some friendly conversation and my opinion changed and grew with time. How lovely.

Well, I say to myself, it looks like I'm done. I've really tried to articulate myself well and I think, if nothing else, I've set up some solid reasons for why someone could have legitimately not enjoyed the game.

But wait, what's this? Kaijima, you're still saying people don't like Other M because they're attached to their old perception of Metroid?

You're trying to form a rule or pattern of behaviour from fans of a series when there clearly isn't one. Fans want quality. Resident Evil 4 wasn't Resident Evil or REmake in most any respect. It was just a damn good game and a significant departure from the series norm.

It's odd that you'd mention this is regard to Metroid, given the almost universal praise of Metroid Prime and its own dramatic departure from the play-style of any of the Metroid games preceding it. We were sure ready for something a bit different then, and we sure are now.

Risk for risk's sake doesn't deserve a pat on the back. That's like giving a kid a ribbon for participating in the long jump. Yeah, he face-planted, but at least he gave it a shot, right? Fans want quality. If Metroid: Other M played like Super Mario Galaxy with missile upgrades, you can bet your ass we'd be along for that ride.

Your argument hinges on the idea that Other M would actually be a super-memorable, amazing game if it was called Super Space Bottle Ship: Not Related to Metroid, but under all the window-dressing it's just another forgettable B-tier action game.

you respond, I respond:

My problem with you, Kaijima, is that you sit up on a pedestal at the moment thinking you're passing over some high-critique on a fanbase because of your extraordinary analytical skills. Being able to predict a negative fan reaction after the first trailers doesn't mean you have the amazing ability to predict the future and behaviour patterns of fans any more than seeing a cloudy sky and thunder gives you the awesome ability to predict rain. Liking something that many consider to be mediocre doesn't make you more open-minded, it just means your standards are lower or your tastes are simply different. Saying it has to be expectations that are holding back fan reaction is hypothetical, childish, arms-crossed-feet-planted-firmly-on-the-floor stubbornness, and painting people with that broad a brush isn't ever going to help change anyone's mind about a game or offer anything charming or compelling to read.

I left out what you said about Metroid Prime because as far as I'm concerned calling it Super Metroid in 3D is, no offence, nonsense. I mean, I guess it is Super Metroid in 3D, except for the way the character moves and generally controls, the way the fiction is presented, the way the power-ups work and the order in which they're found, the style of combat encounters you face, the beat-to-beat feeling of exploration, the level design, the visor perspective and the beam selection. Which is to say, while it sticks very closely to the formula (Samus finds powerups and beats bosses to progress to the next area), the only thing it has over Other M as far as difference to Super is concerned is a more open-world to explore.

Sit up there on your high horse and look down on the people all you want, that's fine. We'll probably have forgotten about this game in a week or two and moved onto the next flavour of the month. Just don't be under any pretension that your love of the game can be chalked up to anything more a) simply a taste thing; b) an overwhelming WANT to like Metroid; c) bad taste or lowered standards; or d) all of the above. What a lot of us are saying about this game has nothing to do with wanting to hate the game or being unwilling to accept change and has everything to do with the content of the game presented to us.

hang on a minute, wait, no responce from Kaijima? But I put some effort into that psot. Surely he's not just going to keep pedalling the same point of view after all of this? Surely he'll at least respond to it.

Well...

of course not, it's flawed logic that is based in easily manipulable psychology being used to make a point that isn't actually saying anything other than 'it's not that bad', which is never the strongest thing to be arguing to begin with.

He never responded.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Kaijima's posts bother me because he isn't actually discussing anything. He's thrusting his view upon everyone else and using long walls of text to distract from it. A post prior to launch by Kaijima would be identical to one as he started the game, progressed through the game and bet the game. But that's fine, I had some discussions all the same.

Let's look at my progression throughout this thread:



hmm, that seems a bit extreme, Rez. You might want to reconsider that. Ok, fine guys, there were some good responses.



Well this is a bit inflammatory! But hey, at least I'm not putting myself on a pedestal and sneering at everyone, I used inclusive words! That means I'm just as much as fault, right guys.


When questioned about the admittedly vague 2010 design decisions, I responded:



Then quickly added after a swift Segata intervention



to which Kaijima then jumped in with a post on about page 16X that wouldn't have been out of place on page 67 or 184 and I followed up.



Hey, look at that. With time I have reflected and actually came to a different conclusion from where I started. This post wouldn't have made sense on Page 140something, but on Page 170something it made sense because we had some friendly conversation and my opinion changed and grew with time. How lovely.

Well, I say to myself, it looks like I'm done. I've really tried to articulate myself well and I think, if nothing else, I've set up some solid reasons for why someone could have legitimately not enjoyed the game.

But wait, what's this? Kaijima, you're still saying people don't like Other M because they're attached to their old perception of Metroid?




you respond, I respond:




hang on a minute, wait, no responce from Kaijima? But I put some effort into that psot. Surely he's not just going to keep pedalling the same point of view after all of this? Surely he'll at least respond to it.

Well...



He never responded.

You sure do quote yourself a lot.

 

[dani_dc]

The over-the-shoulder section were pretty badly design, they seemed designed to create tension but instead resulted in the exact opposite. The fact that they were usually followed by a cutscene, and never by a gameplay sequence, assured this. It made the flow of the game predictable and, in terms of gameplay, added nothing to the game.

As for the level design, the game invites to scanvager hunts as much as the older Metroids, as in that you can't really get the majority of upgrades until very later in the game, difference being this game locks you out of the possibility of going back for the missiles you missed or just got the upgrade to get, which, for a game that's trying to make itself more accessible to a bigger userbase, is a pretty bad idea for anyone that ends up missing upgrades and realizing half-game he barely has any missiles or energy tanks.

My issue with the game isn't just that the game is linear, but that it is unnaturally linear.
The sections don't feel like sections as much as they feel like a bunch of room with no connections with each other that just happen to have the same theme.

The game forcing you to go through a certain path is not really a strenght, a well design world has the ability to point the player the right path foward while keeping the pacing. Forcing the player to go a certain path for the sake of pacing tends to be a sign of bad design, not good one.

And the majority of the rooms are nothing but linear corridors with a bunch of enemies to fight and nothing else to it. The game tries to hide this by sometimes throwing curved corridors at you, but due to the automatic nature of the game they end up working just like straight corridors.

I feel the game had tons of good ideas, but the execution for the majority of them was lacking.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I like this game. I'd give it a solid 8/10.

 

[riceandbeans]

Slightly off-topic, but this is bothering me. Is it just me or does Samus have boobs poking out of her armor in this poster? :lol

And for being on topic, solid gameplay and great story but clunky controls and spotty graphics in the environments (c'mon Team Ninja, you can do better) for 8/10.

 

[LSauchelli]

Thanks MarshMellow96 for that tip, allowed me to 100% the game.

The only part that bothered me where the infamous "Waldo" sections, and those were few and far between.

The game was fun, more so than most games. Is it better than Metroid Prime? Probably not, but it's a good game and I honestly don't get people saying it isn't.

If I were to rate it, it would probably be a 9/10 for me.

 

[Xellos]

Finished Other M for a third time today. The combat in this game is so well thought out. It reminds me of the great 16-bit action-arcade games (like Ghouls & Ghosts): snappy controls, interesting enemy designs, tough but doable pattern-based bosses. This is the most fun I've had with an action game in a long time.

 

[Boney]

I can't speak to him, but there's an inherent aspect of what people know that the franchise does. But this one streamlines the exploration. One one side of the spectrum, we have people that push it to the ground because it's to lineal and I can't go back and get my power ups whenever I want, and on the other side, posters from GAF even, that get lost and confused and don't know where to go.

So it's a challenge to provide the same feeling of opening new areas, secrets and combot with newly acquired abilities, but at the same time making it more simple so that people that easily get lost can enjoy the franchise and it's elements. Of course, one could argue that by trying to chew on more than it can, it ends up pleasing no one, but I don't think that's the case. I think it carries the Metroid formula and takes in a completely different direction, and it works. It works really well.

 

[John Harker]

Was Samus sleeping with

Spoiler

Adam's younger brother? I kinda get the impression they were an item

How much game is left after

Spoiler

Adam dies?

 

[Boney]

Was Samus sleeping with

Spoiler

Adam's younger brother? I kinda get the impression they were an item

How much game is left after

Spoiler

Adam dies?

Hmm can't remember very well, but it shouldn't be too much.

I get the impression that Samus is a virgin. Don't know why.

 

[Version 3.0]

I am always charmed by the "you're wrong because you're not a game designer" card.

But sure sport, I'll bite. The linearity in this game is no accident. It's also - try not to clutch your chest - good game design. For this particular game.

Everything in /this/ particular Metroid is focused on moving the player forward. The ability unlock system, containing most puzzles to single rooms, the elimination of farming energy and missile ammunition, the instanced events that change the map layout, such as the avalanche. Collecting pickups along the way - those you have the gear to acquire - is optional, but the focus is kept away from inviting a scavenger hunt. At the same time, the forward momentum and situational linearity emphasize a need to stop and look for what pickups you can along the way, as you'll be locked out of relying on pickups - the scavenger hunt - for a long section of the game if you choose to bypass them.

As a result, for those who go with the flow rather than determinedly force-f**king the game to be Super Metroid, it has excellent, methodical, and planned pacing like a scripted action game without sacrificing all of the play mechanics that make it feel like a Metroid adventure.

Now, its design does not perfectly achieve this goal. The reasons for the Waldo sequences and the over-the-shoulder exploratory bits are pretty clear - to break up the regular game flow with adventure elements, and it's also a gating mechanism. A bigger aspect that nobody has commented on is the over-the-shoulder sequences /also/ tend to lead into major cut scenes, and act as a buffer between 3rd person "imma lil' samus jumping action figure" framework, and giant full motion hollywood cut scenes. There is some elegance in concept there, and a few of the shoulder-view sequences work better than others - including a few where you're forced to walk forward, into a situation that is clearly dripping impending dread and a nasty surprise.

The main problems with the Waldos and the shoulder slow-walks is that they feel incomplete - like partial sections of a more fleshed out adventure element. In their simplistic form, they simply take up time and they're too simplistic to be interesting. But it's not the "ZOMG WHAT WAS THEY THINKING I CANNOT IMAGINE THE POINT OF THIS!" that some folks are reacting like.

So, aside from two gameplay modes - which themselves take up perhaps a few percentile points of a 12 hour long game - I found that for what this game was trying to do, it was rather expertly designed and there is nothing "objectively wrong" about the way it handles linearity. It says a lot about expectations that for many, the only part of the game they'll accept as truly valid is the postgame where you're allowed to clean up the pickups you missed - because then people can force it to be the only Metroid design they are willing to accept.

Oh, and the combat system is more sophisticated than the 2D Metroid games people are holding this up to and judging it having failed. If compared to Metroid Prime - which basically amounts to "lock-on, push left or right to circle strafe, and mash fire button" into bullet sponge enemies - it's still a more interesting and robust system until you get to Prime 3, which did throw some new systems into the mix.

But then Prime 3 is supposed to be the game that sucks according to the True Faithful, because having more and better combat makes it Halo, so whateva the frack Metroid fans :lol

I didn't say the game's linearity was an accident. I said the exact opposite; that it wasn't properly designed to be linear. Of course they did it on purpose. That doesn't mean it was a good decision. The game is at odds with itself. It shows you items that you need additional abilities to acquire, and once you have those abilities, doesn't let you attempt to get them until after the game is over. After being cockblocked over and over again, I finally stopped trying to get items and presumably passed up several that I could've got. That's not "good flow", it's a half-baked, poorly integrated redesign that clearly was implemented to prioritize the story over the game.

Your oversimplification of Prime's combat notwithstanding (as if timing, beam/missile variations, targeting weak points, or awareness of the surrounding environment weren't factors), it's this game's combat that's the topic. I submit to you that I can win the post-game boss fight, and most enemy encounters, with my eyes closed. It could probably be done with a simple programmable controller as well. Auto-tap to auto-dodge, and release the fire button once per second or so. I also submit that the same is not true of any other Metroid game. I enjoyed most of the boss fights, but outside of them, combat is workable but poor due to over-automation.

 

[Boney]

Except you don't have to force the backtracking because the game alone takes you to past areas after you got your power ups.

And if you want to fight just using the sense move and charge beams, then go right ahead, but there's plenty of more options while always remaining simple.

 

[Bisnic]

Nice avatar Boney, with Samus looking retard and saying "the baby...baby...baby...baby...baby" :lol

 

[dani_dc]

I rather disagree that the game manages to keep the Metroid formula.
More than being linear in flow, the approach taken on the design of the world is linear in itself.
Every area is connected only in one spot with each other and as such every section not only feels, but is essencially disconnected from the rest of the world.

Even the sectors themselves are fairly linear, more to the point, going from one side of the sector to the other is often a linear task (this is most noticeable on the post game content when trying to get all items), being there very few shortcuts or connections between most rooms, there are really no alternatives but to take one single path to whatever room you want to go.

The few shortcuts that exist are only really shortcuts in the context of the story, where you happen to be in place A and the game wants you to go to place B without forcing you to backtrack, they feel more like an afterthought to keep the flow of the story going rather then to keep the flow of the world, and when the game opens up they end up being rather useless as taking the regular path often takes as long as using the "shortcuts".

And this is why I really don't think the game takes a good approach at the Metroid formula, the formula has always had on it's base a complex and mostly connected world, even when the game itself had a linear flow, and I consider that Other M fails on this area.

 

[Boney]

Nice avatar Boney, with Samus looking retard and saying "the baby...baby...baby...baby...baby" :lol

courtesy of our very own radioheadrule83 from the franchise rebooting thread

 

[AniHawk]

Was Samus sleeping with

Spoiler

Adam's younger brother? I kinda get the impression they were an item

Spoiler

Nah. That picture of them is like of any picture someone at E3 takes with a booth babe. Samus looks uncomfortable, although it's way more obvious in the concept art.

 

[mantidor]

:O

Spoiler

nightmare!

what happened next is one hell of a retcon

Spoiler

even though Fusion is technically the sequel, none of this makes any sense. Why did she acted so suprised in Fusion when she finds out about the Galactic Federation breeding Metroids, or why is she so unaware of adam's ultimate fate, and how the hell was his mind uploaded to her ship's computer? I hope they don't go the amnesia route to explain all of this.

Also, what an ungrateful bastard with the chozo, how can she say Adam is the only thing close to a father she ever had?

And again why the hell she fights

Spoiler

nightmare with the damn gravity suit in her pocket, she no longer is waiting for Adam's orders and she already decided herself to use screw attack and space jump when it was needed

, most stupid item acquirement method ever implemented. I don't care how illogical and repetitive it is, next time make her lose all powers and make her find them again.

Now let's head to what seems to be the final battle.

 

[Threi]

played it at a different house, different wiimote, different setup, and the game was CLUNKY AS HELL.

its definitely setup dependant. Your wiimote dpad and sensor bar position make a world of difference.

wasn't my setup though, with my setup i enjoyed the game immensely, so eh.

 

[jman2050]

Your oversimplification of Prime's combat notwithstanding (as if timing, beam/missile variations, targeting weak points, or awareness of the surrounding environment weren't factors), it's this game's combat that's the topic. I submit to you that I can win the post-game boss fight, and most enemy encounters, with my eyes closed. It could probably be done with a simple programmable controller as well. Auto-tap to auto-dodge, and release the fire button once per second or so. I also submit that the same is not true of any other Metroid game. I enjoyed most of the boss fights, but outside of them, combat is workable but poor due to over-automation.

I may be wrong on this, but I felt that the combat was explicitly designed where the easiest method of taking out an enemy is also by far the slowest. Keeps it accessible to people who aren't all that good at action games while allowing much quicker and efficient kills for those who are. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends entirely on preference of course.

 

[Kard8p3]

:O

Spoiler

nightmare!

what happened next is one hell of a retcon

Spoiler

even though Fusion is technically the sequel, none of this makes any sense. Why did she acted so suprised in Fusion when she finds out about the Galactic Federation breeding Metroids, or why is she so unaware of adam's ultimate fate, and how the hell was his mind uploaded to her ship's computer? I hope they don't go the amnesia route to explain all of this.

Also, what an ungrateful bastard with the chozo, how can she say Adam is the only thing close to a father she ever had?

And again why the hell she fights

Spoiler

nightmare with the damn gravity suit in her pocket, she no longer is waiting for Adam's orders and she already decided herself to use screw attack and space jump when it was needed

, most stupid item acquirement method ever implemented. I don't care how illogical and repetitive it is, next time make her lose all powers and make her find them again.

Now let's head to what seems to be the final battle.

Spoiler

I just finished Fusion again a week ago and she doesn't act surprised about the Metroid lab in that game. Also she wasn't unaware of Adams fate in fusion either. At the end she wants to blow up the lab even if it takes her with it. She then mentions that Adam would understand because he made that sacrifice in the past.

 

[mantidor]

Spoiler

I just finished Fusion again a week ago and she doesn't act surprised about the Metroid lab in that game. Also she wasn't unaware of Adams fate in fusion either. At the end she wants to blow up the lab even if it takes her with it. She then mentions that Adam would understand because he made that sacrifice in the past.

really? I don't have that game as fresh in my memory so I'll take your word on it.

Spoiler

Theres the plothole about uploading his mind to a computer though.

 

[jman2050]

really? I don't have that game as fresh in my memory so I'll take your word on it.

Spoiler

Theres the plothole about uploading his mind to a computer though.

Spoiler

Fusion mentions that the AI upload of high-ranking officers was considered standard procedure in the GF. It's certainly plausible to think that these AIs are prepared in advance exactly for cases like these.

 

[Boney]

really? I don't have that game as fresh in my memory so I'll take your word on it.

Spoiler

Theres the plothole about uploading his mind to a computer though.

Spoiler

They probably just keep personal profiles on most high ranking members of the federation. In Fusion, Adam doesn't know how he dies. He acts surprised when Samus slips on him sacrificing himself.

 

[Kard8p3]

really? I don't have that game as fresh in my memory so I'll take your word on it.

Spoiler

Theres the plothole about uploading his mind to a computer though.

Indeed I'm not sure how that happened because

Spoiler

if a dude was in an explosion that big I'm pretty sure there would be no salvageable remains.

Spoiler

Fusion mentions that the AI upload of high-ranking officers was considered standard procedure in the GF. It's certainly plausible to think that these AIs are prepared in advance exactly for cases like these.

Yeah this is likely the case.

 

[Tathanen]

So I'm playing Metroid II for more than an hour for the first time and this game is fuckin great.

Just puttin that out there.

 

[Poyunch]

The fact that Adam

Spoiler

knows nothing about his death and never mentions the 07th Platoon probably means he was uploaded before Other M.