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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
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MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm watching it.Boney said:
eXistor
Member
I might seem like I'm not giving Other M a chance because it's not Super Metroid, but is it really that hard to see my (and others') disappointment in the game? I'm all for trying something new, but if that means ditching almost everything the series stands for, I'm not so sure I want that. Other M isn't going back to basics like NSMB did, that game was fantastic, it's everything a Mario game is. This is a series going backwards in the wrong way.thecouncil said:
Even based on its own merits the game really isn't that interesting. I can't imagine players wanting to play more Metroid just based on this game.
Boney said:
There are some out there saying that sakamoto lost his touch with other m but after remembering how expertly designed zero mission is it's clear to me that sakamoto hasn't lost anything. Other M is designed the way it is by choice not because he lost his touch. Seeing how amazingly zero mission is designed there's no doubt in my mind that if he wanted to make a super metroid/zero mission kind of game using the Other M engine he easily could. In fact I hope he follows the pattern of the GBA games and makes the next one more open.
eXistor said:
I'm guessing you didn't like Fusion much either right? This game expands on the more linear style of fusion making them companion games. Other M is to Fusion what Super Metroid is to the original game. Personally I like that they have to different styles. It allows them to switch things up without completely changing everything.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm just going to reply to this post, but thanks Boney for the videos.robor said:
The inclusion of sequence breaking is nice for the players that want to do it. I completely understand why they would want to do it, but I have to be honest, I have no interest in doing it myself. That doesn't mean I'm against it though, I love the freedom of choice. So I have to ask, what about the players that want to play the game without being told what to do and where to go? Like sequence breaking, I feel it should be optional and not forced. The same thing with story. If I want to know how Samus is feeling, give her a diary that I can read or something but don't make me sit thru hours of dialog that I feel degrade her character.
As far as Fusion goes, I didn't ever think about the linearity of it borrowing from Metroid II, which let's admit, is the black sheep of the main series. Fusion was a sequel to Super Metroid and marketed as that. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy all of these games, but I feel like ya'll are trying to justify something here that's detrimental to the series. They are steadily taking out key elements to the series which is exploration and mystery. No one gets to sequence break in Other M and no one gets to explore. On top of that, the sense of mystery and intrigue behind Samus has been seriously damaged. How can you argue with that?
Edit -
Great post. This is what I'm talking about. Too many people have complained about it. I just hope Sakamoto is listening and gives us the game we all want. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I just feel like Other M was the last straw. They need to go back to the drawing board and reassess the series.eXistor said:
But that's not what you said ;pKard8p3 said:
I hope they continue with Zero Mission style on the 3DS and Other M style on Wii 2.
*ahem*
You can totally do whatever the hell you want in Zero Mision. But yeah, they're "taking" elements away from the series and introducing new ones. Doesn't mean they're gone forever. It's just a different take. I like that a lot.
robor
Member
MadOdorMachine said:
Yea it does actually. SM = exploitative gameplay. RoS = forced exploration sections.
One consists of a interconnecting world (i.e. non-linear) and the other consists of sequences of "levels" (i.e. linear).
Both of which exhibit the core gameplay of Metroid: exploration.
eXistor said:
Imagine harder. I want to play more of this. Its the first metroid game ive got 100% on my first runthrough and the first time ive started playing on hard as soon as i finish. Im nearly done with hard now and dont want it to end, i find it very addictive.
If Sakamoto is listening he would probably notice that this is a minority opinion.
Version 3.0
Member
RagnarokX said:
True...so her suit disappears whenever she loses consciousness or stops thinking about it hard enough, or gets emotional about her dead parents unless it's malfunctioning, in which case it actually protects her when she's most vulnerable. Sounds like a real winning design. Maybe inconsistent writing is the better explanation after all.
El Pescado
Member
I can not get this one item and it is driving me insane. I must have tried for like two hours already.
I am literally getting a migraine over this. >_<
It's the one in Sector 1 where you have to slide down a hill and shoot a Super Missile at a door while doing it. I just can't even get the game to lock on to the door long enough to recognize that I need to shoot a Super Missile let alone charge one up.
El Pescado
Member
Oh my God! FINALLY! Thank you!Varjet said:
balladofwindfishes
Member
I sat and watched the 2 and a half hours of straight cutscenes in the theater mode.
When you do it that way, the story is actually fairly decent. It's only when they throw in hours of gameplay in between each event that it seems odd. It still doesn't feel like a story from Metroid though even if it's almost entirely lifted from Fusion.
Also, I think classic music would have helped make this "feel" more like a Metroid game. Sector 3 was asking for Norfair music, and Sector 1 could have had some cool music from Metroid II (which isn't done much at all in the series). I understand ambient, but I was actively looking for music in the game. There are portions that allude to classic Metroid themes, but there's nothing in there that sounds remotely close to the rest of the series.
Listening to the credits, you couldn't tell what you were playing. What happened to Samus' theme, which got regulated to a loading screen early in the game... When Ridley's music played, I was incredibly happy... why didn't
get the same treatment.
When you do it that way, the story is actually fairly decent. It's only when they throw in hours of gameplay in between each event that it seems odd. It still doesn't feel like a story from Metroid though even if it's almost entirely lifted from Fusion.
Also, I think classic music would have helped make this "feel" more like a Metroid game. Sector 3 was asking for Norfair music, and Sector 1 could have had some cool music from Metroid II (which isn't done much at all in the series). I understand ambient, but I was actively looking for music in the game. There are portions that allude to classic Metroid themes, but there's nothing in there that sounds remotely close to the rest of the series.
Listening to the credits, you couldn't tell what you were playing. What happened to Samus' theme, which got regulated to a loading screen early in the game... When Ridley's music played, I was incredibly happy... why didn't
Nightmare and Phantoon
thecouncil
Banned
eXistor said:
you write, 'everything the series stands for' but i feel that thought stems from the idea: 'everything Super Metroid stands for'... it cant go against everything the series stands for when several other games in the series include the same elements that this one does... at this point, its like Super Metroid is becoming the one that goes against everything the series stands for... haha... i mean, what does this series stand for in your eyes?
also, i cant imagine players NOT wanting to play more Metroid just based on this game...
thecouncil said:
I can...quite easily
And seriously he can have legitimate complainst about the game being a Metroid game while totally disregarding SM, it's not like it's the only 'game' Other M goes contrary to.
Kajima said:
And I guess he was wrong.
edit : damn my inability to see words I'm missing
JasoNsider
Member
Finally got to the credits roll!
I did a definite turn-around on this title. The first hour or two was really depressingly bad, but from there it got a lot better. The mechanics started to become worthwhile and the vibe at least approached something like Fusion in 3D.
There were more than a couple locations where it felt like Metal Gear Solid:Tactical Espionage Action (ie MGS1). In fact, there were a couple times where I felt it was more MGS in story vibe than the recent MGS4 itself
Of course, there were one or two fairly hammy story scenes, but in general it was pretty great.
Boss battles were fan-fucking-tastic. Really did the series justice with intense, action-packed scenarios. I loved the high-energy feel to the game (as you get going) in general.
The music and ambient sound was a definite let-down, to be sure. The game could have used a lot more attention to the ambient/atmospheric feeling through sound design. Honestly a couple of those over-the-shoulder moments could have been improved 100% with just better music.
I'm on board for more if they are!
I did a definite turn-around on this title. The first hour or two was really depressingly bad, but from there it got a lot better. The mechanics started to become worthwhile and the vibe at least approached something like Fusion in 3D.
There were more than a couple locations where it felt like Metal Gear Solid:Tactical Espionage Action (ie MGS1). In fact, there were a couple times where I felt it was more MGS in story vibe than the recent MGS4 itself
Of course, there were one or two fairly hammy story scenes, but in general it was pretty great.Boss battles were fan-fucking-tastic. Really did the series justice with intense, action-packed scenarios. I loved the high-energy feel to the game (as you get going) in general.
The music and ambient sound was a definite let-down, to be sure. The game could have used a lot more attention to the ambient/atmospheric feeling through sound design. Honestly a couple of those over-the-shoulder moments could have been improved 100% with just better music.
I'm on board for more if they are!
They included some of the same elements that Other M included while managing to incorporate the core of the Metroid formula. Not everyone here thinks Other M managed to do the same.thecouncil said:
I for one don't, and if Sakamoto vision for the future of the Metroid series passes by some of the ideas shown and developed in Other M (not the engine itself, I think a future Metroid game on the same engine could have a lot of potential), I have to say that my interest on the future of the series is compromised.
At the very least I'll be apprehensive for the next entry on the franchise involving Sakamoto.
thecouncil
Banned
eXistor said:
thecouncil said:
Mael said:
anyone else want to join this back and forth? its going so well.
oh. cool.Mael said:
im not trying to be a dick or anything, but i really dont know what this means. Other M has 'elements of the Metroid series' but does not incorporate the 'core of the Metroid formula'? ... whats the difference?dan_dc said:
RagnarokX said:
She stills take off her helmet in Metroid/Zero Mission and Corruption, at the very least the helmet does come off as a separate piece. In corruption it vanishes, but in Zero Mission she holds it in her hand, the same in the first prime. The materialization is not the way it always has been.
I really doubt there's any definitive explanation on how it works, the suit itself is never the same in any Metroid game, thats 7 different varia suits, not including the corruption, echoes and fusion variations.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I really enjoyed this game. It had a few flaws, but so does every damn game that comes out minus 1 or 2 a generation. I found it distinctly Metroid, I took no issue with how Samus was portrayed, and found it an overall enjoyable experience. I'd love to see more Metroid games done with this engine, but with some improvements.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I would love to play more Metroid just based on this game.
It's better than I originally thought it was going to be.
(I never beat Super Metroid or Prime 1. Suckers.)
It's better than I originally thought it was going to be.
(I never beat Super Metroid or Prime 1. Suckers.)
KirbyStamped
Member
thecouncil said:
I think what he's basically saying here is that while Other M has some aspects to it that are certainly found in other Metroid games, such as hunting for expansions and upgrades in the various rooms of the world, the way older Metroid games progressed (figuring out how to get through one large, cohesive world)) is mostly forgotten in lieu of a much more linear world. People compare this game to Fusion, which had a much different progression from this particular game. In Fusion, though the game was much more directed, the areas you explored were still fairly nonlinear in how you approached them, and the areas that were locked out felt like they had reason to rather than simply "We don't want you to go this way", and the sections themselves were still connected, and you could discover that via the end game and some basic exploration through the worlds. Other M, on the other hand, pretty much locks you down to one straight path, and the rooms themselves are designed as such so you're always going on one straight path rather than branching out and meeting together in some shape or form.
The expansion upgrades and whatnot feel mostly like an attempt to still have some Metroid-like aspects in the game, but the way the upgrades are placed in the world, they feel mostly like an afterthought rather than thoughtfully placed within the confines of the game, mostly revolving around looking for an area to morphball into, or finding enough space to super dash/shinespark, or finding a charge switch and shooting it, then after doing as such, obtaining the item. There are of course some exceptions, but when playing through the game, that's mostly how I and I assume others felt the how the expansions were handled.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Pshh..
Other M is a metroid game through and through.
I have played all of them and while other M will not be on the top of my list, it is still a metroid game. If other M is not metroid, fusion is not either.
Other M is a metroid game through and through.
I have played all of them and while other M will not be on the top of my list, it is still a metroid game. If other M is not metroid, fusion is not either.
thecouncil
Banned
KirbyStamped said:
i seeee...
thanks for explaining that.
i understand what youre getting at.
i just dont agree with the fact that sometimes not being able to go back through a door you entered is the collapse of the metroid universe. :lol
i dont know though. ive played all the games but not recently enough to cite evidence to the contrary of the point.
Shin Johnpv
Member
KirbyStamped said:
You mean just like in other Metroid games, where expansions were found by morphball bombing the shit out of areas. Shinesparking through a wall. Or screw attacking through walls? I mean really these complaints are dumb, its the same shit as past Metroid games.
MindCollizion
Member
Finished the game for the first time last night with 96% items found. I gotta say the latter part of the game is fantastic, and the story and cinematic presentation was superb. What kinda killed it though was
I really tried to explain myself here but it kind of doesn't make sense what I've typed, although I hope someone gets what im trying to say. I was awed by the kind of AI VS human conscience commentary I thought they were trying to relate, disappointed that the narrative contradicted itself, and confused that it reverts back to its original presentation.
Still, this game was great.
that I thought it was badass how MB android gained emotion and this allowed her to start feeling for the Metroids and having that connection, as well as having a "soul" like the game said. But then in the following cutscene the narrative tells you that scientists made sure to have emotions disabled in the development of MB android. I thought they had the perfect set up for what made MB human and what would happen naturally, but they go on and killed it by saying that the scientists had something to do about it. Then, in the following cutscene, it goes back to saying how it was natural for MB to feel and have emotions.
Still, this game was great.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Maybe because the first (Metroid) and -generally speaking- the most well received (Super Metroid) games are "exploration-based"? I'm not saying it holds true for me; the Prime series is my favorite, and I've never finished the first Metroid (even though I own the emulated copy that came with the original Prime and the one that comes with Zero Mission(?)), but I have finished Metroid II, Fusion and Zero Mission.Boney said:
KirbyStamped
Member
Shin Johnpv said:
I guess I didn't really explain my stance properly. For that I apologize. In other Metroid games, there have generally been "cues" that prompt you to look at an area differently. Whenever you're confronted with a dead end, you know it's not "really" a dead end, and that nothing is placed in the game for no reason (Metroid 2 notwithstanding). Generally, the games in the past have "tested" how much you know about them, and will generally play with your expectations. It was never simply about "shinesparking here, bomb the hell out of this, rinse/repeat", but rather how you got to "shinespark there, bomb this here". Of course there have always been a few gimmes and never required much more than pointing out the obvious or just having the right weapon at the right time, but it's much more prevelant in Other M, as, and this is especially true in the post-game, you'll see an item on your map or in the room, and you really only have to look around for a bit and notice one of three things:
1) Is there room to superdash and, if so, is there a high up area to shinespark onto?
2) Is there a small enclosed space to roll up into a ball into?
3) Is there a space that needs me to have a special weapon or a switch to hit?
That is all you ever need to do for really any of the expansions. The game, only on occassion, will play with how you approach a situation. Other Metroid games in the past have both played with your expectations as to how to approach said situation beyond there just being walls to break, as well as had different situations regarding acquiring said power-ups.
That's not to say I think that's bad, mind you. It's just that, in this particular instance, it feels like the expansions are only there to satisfy some tradition attatched to the Metroid series, when the progression of the game is really closer to God of War (almost entirely linear with just a little room to explore and upgrade), but the difference between this and God of War is that in God of War the expansions/upgrades are mostly optional and when you find them, it's a big deal and the upgrade is significant, whereas in Other M it's more of a slow build-up, with small, incremental upgrades, and while it works, it feels like the design of the game was built more around the combat system, to which I have mixed feelings towards. If you like the game and how it handles the level design, that's cool, I'm fully in support of that, but it is a different design from how it's been done in older games.
Boney said:
The difference between Other M and other "linear" Metroid games is that while you were always pointed to go to a certain direction, the stage design itself branched off into different directions, and had areas that branched off into different directions, and then eventually those rooms might connect to other areas that might connect back to other rooms, etc. Essentially, you could move towards different directions and areas in Super Metroid, Zero Mission, and Fusion. In Other M, you basically have two directions to go: Forward and Back, and it will eventually loop back to the elevator. I think what people dislike about this is that the world of this particular Metroid game doesn't feel cohesive because of it. Essentially, you have the Main Sector, and then the other sectors are all cut off from one another, and the only connection they have is the Main Section/hub world. It also cuts you off from going in any other direction other than where the game wants you to go. Again, if you like this, that's fine, but I don't think the game itself makes much of a case for why it does this, and one of the more defining traits of the Metroid series up 'til now has been a believable, cohesive world.
MarshMellow96
Member
Boney said:I.. I got bored... and... and decided to check out maelstroms blog... why? why would I ever torture myself like that?
=/ There is definitely an ebb and flow to this thread.
Interesting.. Playing Fusion at the minute. It seems as though the whole 'wait until HQ sends the Varia Suit stuff'' then the 'download after HQ says so' is kind of similar to the authorisation malarkey. I guess if you really stretched it, it could work with Other M...
I've also been looking at some other Metroid
lol) forums to see how people have interpreted certain decisions. Whilst there are some nutters - some of the guys see hard mode as a sort of forced percentage run, whilst others don't mind that much about the Varia suit activation thing because they 'used to play through Norfair without it for fun'. Something about a forced 'hell run' was also said. It'd be nice to hear what Sakamoto would say about this. It'd be absolutely hilarious if that section was a nod to the fans that went over theirs heads because they were too busy hatin' :lolThey also had some good ideas about why it was linear. Nothing to do with bad game design or how old you are. Does the linearity relate to the story? Some of the fans seem to think that it's Adam at work trying to prevent Samus from finding out about the Metroids, because he knows that she'll stop at nothing to destroy them. I guess that would tie in with the authorisation process a little better.
wackojackosnose
Member
Games TM interview - "Yoshio Sakamoto discusses Metroid 64, Metroid Dread and the 3DS"
http://www.gamestm.co.uk/interviews...the-unwritten-future-of-the-warioware-series/
I like what he says about Super Metroid:
http://www.gamestm.co.uk/interviews...the-unwritten-future-of-the-warioware-series/
I like what he says about Super Metroid:
Sakamoto said:
Great interview - even though Other M Did a lot of things narratively that I hate to the franchise, it really sounds like this was an experiment to try something new that hadn't been done before in Metroid.
VERY interesting stuff about Metroid 64. It would not surprise me if the company approached were either Rare or Factor 5. Or Iguana.
VERY interesting stuff about Metroid 64. It would not surprise me if the company approached were either Rare or Factor 5. Or Iguana.
Space Runaway
Member
Dartastic said:
Samus goes back to the bottle ship and risks her life to retrieve Adam's helmet. Phantune shows up as a random but fun bonus boss fight.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I think they threw a lot of softballs for a game as controversial as this. It's also clear to me now after finding out more about him that Sakamoto is a walking contradiction. On one hand he says he wants to hear fans feedback, but then when they complain and say that want a game more like Super Metroid (notice we're not saying you can't add new things like an emphasis on action) he comes up with excuses like,wackojackosnose said:
"We might be able to come up with a better Super Metroid but, some day sometime, we would work ourselves into a creative dead end if we were simply moving forward in one direction. "
No. Super Metroid didn't have shitty dialog, an unintuitive control scheme - in fact you could customize it and the game didn't hold your hand. That's not to say there are elements of the other games that weren't good as well. I also understand the fact that they want to make the game more appealing to a new audience, but that doesn't mean you shit over the audience you already have in the process. He's missing the entire point, nobody is saying they don't want change, just not the type of change he's making.
MarshMellow96
Member
I can respect his decision to not want to make Super over and over even if he 'could'. He wants to do something different with his creation.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
No ones asking for a SM remake. People just point to that game because it's considered the best overall. They should take the best elements of each game and improve upon them while adding new things.MarshMellow96 said:
That's a problem. There's nothing wrong with repeating what works. Ever heard the saying, "If it aint broke, don't fix it?" That's what we have here. That's not to say you can't add new things though. There's a reason game franchises have a fan base. Throwing what attracted the fans to the series out the window isn't a good idea.Sakamoto said:
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
wackojackosnose said:
Great interview! That info about Metroid 64 is actually brand new! (no previous mention about an N64 Metroid has ever been given!) I do wonder who that potential Metroid 64 developer was. Given that the N64 received almost no Japanese support, it was probably a western studio (and not Iguana, as the staff who came from Iguana to make Metroid Prime had not had any previous involvement in the series)
My money is on Rare, given their extremely strong relationship with Nintendo back then (Failing that, it was probably DMA design, but Rare would be about 100 times more likely)
Also I do love how Sakamoto refuses to make a carbon copy of Super Metroid and wants to continue taking the series in new directions, good on him for sticking to his guns!
The way he describes Metroid Dread sounds like it was a very troubled project as well (and one that really was pulled at the last minute from its E3 2006 showing) I'm sure we'll see it resurface again at some point (just like Steel Diver!)
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Not only does Sakamoto not listen, but people around here don't either.Nuclear Muffin said: