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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him

rhino4evr said:
So i just beat this game..and while I enjoyed the majority of the game, I can't help but feel a little disenchanted by the whole experience. I can see why some think this may be the Death of Metorid. It's te kinda game that leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Like the series needs to take a break for awhile..

I would actually say Other M has laid the foundations for a much-improved sequel. The way in which they converted the space and movement of the 2D games into 3D was brilliant.

If they can iron some of the more questionable gameplay decisions, which are really the only significant thing that hold this game back, then it could be pretty speicial indeed.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Rez said:
Utter nonsense. I've been down this path already in this thread. It isn't about literary brilliance so much as it's about believability within the context of the game. Go play Portal for an example of something native to gaming, go play Uncharted 2 for something that follows along a little more closely to the movie->game->movie->game style.

I like portal for the puzzles but don't care for the rest of it. Besides I did say most games would get knocked down not all. The majority of game stories use cutscenes and pretty much all game stories are bad so the point still stands that if I were to take stories into account when rating games most would get knocked down a bit.
 

Boney

Banned
etiolate said:
Androit's experience shows the difference between playing Super Metroid at the time and playing it now. Everyone knows the conventions, so its quicker and easier.
So um.. I did it in 3:40 on my first try over 10 years ago.

As for the cutscenes, it's totally appropriate to take them in consideration in the game, especially if you can't skip them. Regardless of the overall story quality, there are 3 major cutscenes in the game, the beggining, after the Anthony fight and the ending. This is badly constructed and kills the pacing if you aren't interested in the story like many here felt.

Perhaps he didn't want story to get in the way of the game and separated everything like this, but it totally backfired.
 

mantidor

Member
Boney said:
It's a darn shame Japan couldn't give a rat's ass about this one.

what? do we know sales figures already? don't tell me it failed in Japan again. It's the same over and over again with Metroid, yet Nintendo keeps being stubborn about it. Give it up in Japan, deal with it, and work in improving what makes Metroid to be loved by its fans, Metroid is not and will never be a "mainstream" game like Zelda or Mario, the attempts to bring the series to that position do more harm than good.
 

etiolate

Banned
mantidor said:
what? do we know sales figures already? don't tell me it failed in Japan again. It's the same over and over again with Metroid, yet Nintendo keeps being stubborn about it. Give it up in Japan, deal with it, and work in improving what makes Metroid to be loved by its fans, Metroid is not and will never be a "mainstream" game like Zelda or Mario, the attempts to bring the series to that position do more harm than good.

I agree, but I am starting to wonder if Japan seeing games mostly as product, as entertainment, as simply goods is why these changes happen. I would argue that Metroid is a series more along the lines of a TV show you run to get awards, rather than the TV show you keep on because of ratings. If you don't see any value in awards or in appealing to a more selective crowd, if you value how well it is received as goods, then the alterations of Metroid make sense. It is still a hopeless pursuit, but games as goods is a legit reasoning for taking on that pursuit.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Kard8p3 said:
I like portal for the puzzles but don't care for the rest of it. Besides I did say most games would get knocked down not all. The majority of game stories use cutscenes and pretty much all game stories are bad so the point still stands that if I were to take stories into account when rating games most would get knocked down a bit.
Games generally have stories that don't make me cringe while watching them. This isn't about whether "most games" use cutscenes, that couldn't be any more irrelevant. If I'm taken out of the experience by a shitty story, that's demonstratably worse than a mediocre story simply washing over me (for example, Halo Reach, Mirrors Edge, Assassin's Creed, The Legend of Zelda, Mario, Borderlands and Dead Space, to name some completely random examples off the top of my head).

Feel free to cite some examples of other games with stories on the level of Metroid Other M that should be thought less of as a result and we can actually flesh out why or why not they're worse rather than making broad statements based on faulty logic.

All of this aside, assuming what you're saying is true (which it isn't), these mysterious other games that we should think less of as a result generally have a skip button nowadays. Including a skip button on repeat playthroughs only is not only a giant unwelcome finger up the ass, it's also a deliberate message: judge this product as a whole.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Rez said:
Games generally have stories that don't make me cringe while watching them. This isn't about whether "most games" use cutscenes, that couldn't be any more irrelevant. If I'm taken out of the experience by a shitty story, that's demonstratably worse than a mediocre story simply washing over me (for example, Halo Reach, Mirrors Edge, Assassin's Creed, The Legend of Zelda, Mario, Borderlands and Dead Space, to name some completely random examples off the top of my head).

Feel free to cite some examples of other games with stories on the level of Metroid Other M that should be thought less of as a result and we can actually flesh out why or why not they're worse rather than making broad statements based on faulty logic.

All of this aside, assuming what you're saying is true (which it isn't), these mysterious other games that we should think less of as a result generally have a skip button nowadays. Including a skip button on repeat playthroughs only is not only a giant unwelcome finger up the ass, it's also a deliberate message: judge this product as a whole.

Well this already isn't going to work because imo the story of Mirrors Edge, Assassins Creed, and Dead Space are still just as bad as the story of Other M. I found some of them entertaining but they were still bad to me. Other games I think have bad stories are FFXIII, Star Ocean 4, MGS4, Gears 1 and 2, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, Uncharted 1 and 2, Infamous, and many more. If I rated any of those games with the story in mind then they'd get knocked down a bit however like I've said I don't rate games with the story in mind as for me it's all about the gameplay.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
That doesn't exactly answer what I said and I get the feeling you're just being obtuse for the sake of making a point, but that's fine. If you'd like to argue that you spend your free time uniformly consuming awful narrative willingly with no ability to distinguish between poorly translated/written and presented stories and stories which, at the very least, are generally selfaware and paying lipservice to currently fashionable writing and presentation then that's fine by me. Plant your flag proudly. I'd probably enjoy more with those sort of standards too, although I'm lucky enough nowadays to generally have more than enough to keep me busy anyway, while not having to force myself through stories I consider to be poorly written. In fact, I'm lucky enough to be of the opinion that games are better written nowadays than ever before, and oftentimes the games I play have stories that are not only engaging, but also further my connection with the game and make the whole experience more memorable. If nothing else, with the exception of Other M, I can't think of a game I've played with such a notable horrible story that it actually totally disengaged me from the experience in the past year or so. I guess that's where I draw the line. As long as your story doesn't make me cringe over and over again, I'll put up with it.

I guess that means we're both well-off in the end. You with your thinking most game stories and just as bad as Other M's and me with my flashy, smug opinion that the games I play actually can and do generally have well-thought out and engaging stories, especially when they play to the strengths of the medium. :)
 

Kard8p3

Member
All I'm saying is I don't let a bad story effect my enjoyment of a game. It's just I find most of the game stories I've experienced to be bad where as you find games these days to have better stories than they have in the past. You have your view I have mine so to each his own.
 

MechaX

Member
Kard8p3 said:
Who cares if the story is terrible though? It's poorly written but I found it to be entertaining. Still though I don't count story when it comes to rating a game. I rate games based off gameplay only and I loved the gameplay (except for where's waldo) so I'd give it around a 9.

Personally, even a video game story can really, really take me out of the mix of things if it's poorly written to the point where even basic logic gets thrown out the window. Gears of War might be really basic in story, for example, but it never really has moments where I think to myself "Okay, that absolutely makes no sense." Other M is the first game in a while where this kind of thing was happening frequently. After wading through the miasma that is Samus's monologue, I would be treated to a mishmash of baffling logic, absolutely nonsensical sequences, characters that suddenly act as if they lost half a brain-cell, etc, etc. When considering that I couldn't just outright skip the cutscenes in my first playthrough, I either had two options.

1. Sit through the cutscene as it continuously beats these elements over my head to the point where I can't ignore it.

2. Leave the room. If I have to leave the room to do something else, why even play a video game in the first place?

So yeah, I wish I could just turn-off my brain and ignore a story where the poorly written parts are just way too obvious.
 

etiolate

Banned
You know who cared a lot about the story? The guy who designed the game and made the entire game and game design choices revolve around the story.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Kard8p3 said:
All I'm saying is I don't let a bad story effect my enjoyment of a game. It's just I find most of the game stories I've experienced to be bad where as you find games these days to have better stories than they have in the past. You have your view I have mine so to each his own.
I don't think the story itself was terrible, but rather the characterization of Samus. Yeah, there were some holes in the plot, but making Samus look like a dunce was the real offense.
 

Kard8p3

Member
MadOdorMachine said:
I don't think the story itself was terrible, but rather the characterization of Samus. Yeah, there were some holes in the plot, but making Samus look like a dunce was the real offense.

I just think it's very poorly written. Like I've said before though even though I think it's bad it still entertained me (like a good B movie) and to be honest I had no problem with the characterization of Samus. To me she seemed like a slightly immature version of the Samus we got in Fusion.
 

Boney

Banned
I actually liked Samus' character here. She always remained quit around people, had to fill herself with courage to lend Adam help, didn't really feel a thing for the rest of the military crew. Not to mention that the japanese voice fits perfectly.
 
etiolate said:
You know who cared a lot about the story? The guy who designed the game and made the entire game and game design choices revolve around the story.

Exactly. "Ignore the story" is a silly thing to say, when telling that awful story was the overwhelming top priority of the game's designer, and the secondary focus (the game) was crafted around emphasizing that story as well.

"Ignore the story" is more appropriate advice when the story is tangential to the game. Take Super Monkey Ball 2's vomit-inducing story. It didn't matter because you could skip it and it truly had no bearing on the game or its design.
 

Dascu

Member
Question about how to reach an item:
Can't figure out how to get to the missile tank in the docking bay. It's up there on a ledge with a closed, flashing door and a red computer terminal next to it. Any advice?
 

mantidor

Member
Dascu said:
Question about how to reach an item:
Can't figure out how to get to the missile tank in the docking bay. It's up there on a ledge with a closed, flashing door and a red computer terminal next to it. Any advice?

look around the rooms close to the docking bay, there are ventilation tunnels somewhere. I don't recall but I think it's not in the room right next to the docking bay but in the one past it.
 

Bizzyb

Banned
Dascu said:
Question about how to reach an item:
Can't figure out how to get to the missile tank in the docking bay. It's up there on a ledge with a closed, flashing door and a red computer terminal next to it. Any advice?

Several rooms ahead, Look for a vent in the break room with the bathrooms on the lower floor. I think there should be some steam pouring out of it
 

Dascu

Member
Thanks for the tips. 100% item completion rate.

I loved this game quite a bit. Story isn't too great, but the gameplay was rock solid.
 
I liked that vent, it was actually one of the more clever, or at least well-hidden, puzzles in the game. That said, I saw it in the first five minutes, Other M really rewards you for taking a look around each room with the first-person view.

I can see why others have problem with it though. It really looks like a shinespark tank.
 

Boney

Banned
From the newest Itoi asks in place of Iwata

Itoi
Even with a few flaws, there are times when you can still give the go sign.

Miyamoto
Yeah. And that's not because the flaws have disappeared, but because there are appealing aspects that more than compensate for what flaws there are.

I felt it belongs to the discussion.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Boney said:
From the newest Itoi asks in place of Iwata

Itoi
Even with a few flaws, there are times when you can still give the go sign.

Miyamoto
Yeah. And that's not because the flaws have disappeared, but because there are appealing aspects that more than compensate for what flaws there are.

I felt it belongs to the discussion.

Perfect
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Boney said:
From the newest Itoi asks in place of Iwata

Itoi
Even with a few flaws, there are times when you can still give the go sign.

Miyamoto
Yeah. And that's not because the flaws have disappeared, but because there are appealing aspects that more than compensate for what flaws there are.

I felt it belongs to the discussion.
Do you have any more? I'd like to know what context we're talking about here. It sounds like they were talking about some flaws in the game being okayed for release which isn't typical Nintendo policy.

Also as much as I love Zelda, I think they need to take a break from that series too. I think they're releasing too many games and need to start limiting it to 1 per generation. Perhaps in the future they could give the games more longevity with DLC, but it's pretty clear people are getting tired of the Zelda formula. That's not because it's bad, but because they're releasing games too frequently and it's hard to bring drastic change to Zelda. Metroid droughts are typically a bit long I'll admit though. It has been an 8 year cycle between each title -> SM & MF & MoM. That's too long.

_Alkaline_ said:
I would actually say Other M has laid the foundations for a much-improved sequel. The way in which they converted the space and movement of the 2D games into 3D was brilliant.

If they can iron some of the more questionable gameplay decisions, which are really the only significant thing that hold this game back, then it could be pretty speicial indeed.
Exactly. Unfortunately, I don't think they'll be working with Team Ninja again in the near future.
 

Boney

Banned
They're talking about how some bad ideas go to storage with a reason why they were bad and couldn't be well integrated at the time, but there are times, where these ideas can be taken out of storage and be used, even when they still have these flaws, because the positive outclasses the negative. They were specifically talking about Miis, but I felt the quote was aplicable to this context as well.

They're from the new Iwata asks. (Itoi asks in place of Iwata)
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
MadOdorMachine said:
Do you have any more? I'd like to know what context we're talking about here. It sounds like they were talking about some flaws in the game being okayed for release which isn't typical Nintendo policy.

Also as much as I love Zelda, I think they need to take a break from that series too. I think they're releasing too many games and need to start limiting it to 1 per generation.
DS aside, they pretty much do this already. TP was a GC title.
 
Boney said:
From the newest Itoi asks in place of Iwata

Itoi
Even with a few flaws, there are times when you can still give the go sign.

Miyamoto
Yeah. And that's not because the flaws have disappeared, but because there are appealing aspects that more than compensate for what flaws there are.

I felt it belongs to the discussion.

Other M has more than "a few flaws" and the good parts don't compensate for them.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Leondexter said:
Other M has more than "a few flaws" and the good parts don't compensate for them.

Where's waldo, Invisible Walls, Potentially the behind the shoulder segments. Pretty much everything else would come down to personal preference.
 

Boney

Banned
Inherent flaws, are actually very few, as Kard mentioned. But there are other issues that feel a bit unpolished or out of context.

It's an incredible hard game to judge, because for everything it does right, it does something "wrong", something that rubs you the wrong way. But everything that it does right, feels so new to me, the incredible rhythm, the outstanding camara work and the little depth incorporated in it.

What really boggles my mind, is how some of these stuff ended up being in the final product in such a crude and raw state.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Boney said:
Inherent flaws, are actually very few, as Kard mentioned. But there are other issues that feel a bit unpolished or out of context.

It's an incredible hard game to judge, because for everything it does right, it does something "wrong", something that rubs you the wrong way. But everything that it does right, feels so new to me, the incredible rhythm, the outstanding camara work and the little depth incorporated in it.

What really boggles my mind, is how some of these stuff ended up being in the final product in such a crude and raw state.

Will you list some of the things it does wrong outside of what I posted? I don't know if I enjoyed the game so much that I overlooked some things or what but I'd like to know what they are so I can be on the lookout for them during my next playthrough.
 
Kard8p3 said:
Where's waldo, Invisible Walls, Potentially the behind the shoulder segments. Pretty much everything else would come down to personal preference.
I guess some people have a preference for the game freezing to load, obtuse objectives where you track through mostly empty sectors just to trigger an event telling you to turn around and come back, nonsensically timed item authorization, seemingly important subplots that fizzle out without notable resolution, and possibly the biggest cock tease/block in the last decade of gaming (sector zero). And that's just stuff that's unambiguously bad. Unfortunately I think you're right that some people have a preference for the terribly written, overly long, and badly delivered cutscenes, as incredulous as it makes me.

There's a lot of good stuff about Other M, but those elements shouldn't have to pull double duty being awesome in and of themselves and making up for the shitty parts.

Boney said:
What really boggles my mind, is how some of these stuff ended up being in the final product in such a crude and raw state.
Agreed. Like I said before, my second play through is giving me the strong impression the game was released before it was entirely done. Not in the normal sense that "they can always do more", but in that it's blatantly unpolished in certain areas in a way you almost never see from major Nintendo franchises.
 

mantidor

Member
Kard8p3 said:
Where's waldo, Invisible Walls, Potentially the behind the shoulder segments. Pretty much everything else would come down to personal preference.

The story for christ sake, the story! it's impossible to defend, its impossible to ignore it, the story spread all over the game, it influenced the design, the item acquisition method, everything.
 

Kard8p3

Member
GrotesqueBeauty said:
I guess some people have a preference for the game freezing to load, obtuse objectives where you track through mostly empty sectors just to trigger an event telling you to turn around and come back, nonsensically timed item authorization, seemingly important subplots that fizzle out without notable resolution, and possibly the biggest cock tease/block in the last decade of gaming (sector zero). And that's just stuff that's unambiguously bad. Unfortunately I think you're right that some people have a preference for the terribly written, overly long, and badly delivered cutscenes, as incredulous as it makes me.

There's a lot of good stuff about Other M, but those elements shouldn't have to pull double duty being awesome in and of themselves and making up for the shitty parts.


For me the game never froze to load. The only time's it needed to load at all was when I was speedboosting through places at the end but it was just the equivalent of doors taking to long to open in MP3. Item authorization didn't bother me because it's just a different way of doing the same thing every metroid game does. As I've said before the story doesn't come into the equation with me. I don't let bad stories get in the way of my enjoyment of a game so none of that is an issue. The bold parts I do agree with though.

mantidor said:
The story for christ sake, the story! it's impossible to defend, its impossible to ignore it, the story spread all over the game, it influenced the design, the item acquisition method, everything.

The story is bad but it doesn't bother me. It's no worse to me than any other game story out there.
 

KevinCow

Banned
mantidor said:
The story for christ sake, the story! it's impossible to defend, its impossible to ignore it, the story spread all over the game, it influenced the design, the item acquisition method, everything.

Kard's made his position on the story pretty clear. It's basically, "Well other games have bad stories too so you can't say that Other M's bad story is a negative against the game!
p0ZWf.gif
" Of course he completely ignores how quality is not black and white, but a gradient, and while most video game stories may be on the quality of a Saturday morning cartoon or a mediocre sci-fi novel, they do not begin to approach the awfulness of Other M's story. Oh and there's the part where most games these days let you skip their cutscenes if you're not interested and don't have ten minute long ones to begin with.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
Freshmaker said:
DS aside, they pretty much do this already. TP was a GC title.
If you're going off of that logic, then just about every Wii game is a GC game. TP was delayed on GC so it could be released on Wii as well. You still have 2 titles on N64, GC & Wii. I don't really count the DS titles because they play so much differently. The gap between SMB3 to SMB64 to SMS to SMG is probably a better example.
 
Putting aside that I disagree entirely that all stories in games are more or less equally bad, I think it's more than fair to judge Other M by its own criteria. It's a game that explicitly presents itself as heavily story driven, and and the narrative is completely unskippable until you've already endured it at least once. Even when you replay it the structure of the game suffers for having had the heavy emphasis on exposition, as you leap from disconnected event to disconnected event without any natural gameplay context to bridge the segments. Hell, the game feels the necessity to summarize current events every time you sit down to play it. It begs to be judged on its storytelling prowess on pretty much every level by virtue of how it presents itself.
 

mantidor

Member
Kard8p3 said:
The story is bad but it doesn't bother me. It's no worse to me than any other game story out there.

I see, but personally I believe the focus on story had a huge influence in the complete design and flow of the game, even if you remove the cutscenes, their influence would be there. In fact the game would seem
even more
broken if you remove the cutscenes now that I think about it.
 

Kard8p3

Member
mantidor said:
I see, but personally I believe the focus on story had a huge influence in the complete design and flow of the game, even if you remove the cutscenes, their influence would be there. In fact the game would seem
even more
broken if you remove the cutscenes now that I think about it.

I guess the best way for me to word it then would be that while the story doesn't bother me I can see how it could bother others. I get the problems people have with it it's just that I learned to ignore story in games period during the playstation era. When I say ignore though I mean when it comes to rating the game because I still do pay attention to alot of game stories because even though they're bad they can still be entertaining.
 

Boney

Banned
Kard8p3 said:
Will you list some of the things it does wrong outside of what I posted? I don't know if I enjoyed the game so much that I overlooked some things or what but I'd like to know what they are so I can be on the lookout for them during my next playthrough.
Well it's definately been a while since my time with the game, but I'll try to recap. I may very well miss a few details.

The biggest most glaring flaw in the game are the Where's Waldo moments, and ironically, these are the least mentioned aspects in reviews. The basic philosophy behind it is incredible simple and rewarding. Make use of an in game mechanic and translate them to cutscenes making both aspects blend in as seamless as possible. The problem comes in, when for whatever reason, they decided to make it work slightly different than the in game counterpart, and removing the lock on aspect. With this, we feel a complete disconection between the segments, and instead of having Samus be a character that has incredibly acute senses, that can spot all these little details, we end up having, we the players being turtured through an excercise of frustration with the intention of make the game world more interactive.

My second complain, are not the shoulder parts per se, but the lab investigation part. It's incredible stretched out, making you move with such an incredible stiff control movement, for such a long period of time. You just walk through a long corridor twice, devoid of tension and interaction. The other parts, like bathrooms and others, work reasonably well, because they are short, self contained, and used to traverse small enclosed areas were regular high speed movement wouldn't work.

But then, why are these 2 aspects in the game? I believe, there was the intention of making these 2 mechanics much more pivotal to the core experience, and make them interact with each other. Investigations parts were supposed to play a bigger role in older builds or concepts of the game, going through doors, papers, computers, perhaps even some stealth. Investigating both in first person and third person. There's the vestigial proof, in the second bathroom where we open a stall to find a powerup, it's incredibly basic and out of place, but my bet, is that it was supposed to be incorporated with much bigger strength earlier in development. Perhaps, they were taken away because they got in the way of regular Metroid gameplay of running and gunning, and didn't want to take such a radical aspect in this sort of comeback. That's my explanation on how we ended up with such disjointed mechanics in such a game, and both definately lower the overall quality of the game, there's no way around that.

The other problems I have with the game, aren't absolute flaws like these ones, but rather partial flaws.
First of all, it's the story in itself, and localisation issues. I said it earlier, regardless of the quality of the story, the game is divided in 3 big cutscenes. The opening, our flashback with Anthony and the ending. All 3 break up the action of the game, they're stiffly implemented and not to mention that they are unskipable. Then comes the localisation issues. Spanish subs are good, and the Japanese voice acting is amazing; So how come did the English version screwed both aspects up? I really can't answer the question, but the end of the matter is that they're much lower quality than their counterparts, and as a result, drag the overall product down a few notches.

As for the characterisation of Samus, I personally don't have a problem with it. But it's definately worth delving into. Sakamoto acknowledges that many people formed the character of Samus in our heads, with the brief information and actions performed in the game. We all have a common ground, but each of us is slightly different because of how we register each of these action, it has to do with context. So one of the main objective was to literally characterise Samus, in a tangible way. Unlike the manga, which has 2 main differences, one being the absolute beginning of the character, and two, being an entirely different medium, Other M is a game near the end. And what it does, is thrust this characterisation of Samus onto us, since the very beggining, in a long exposition dump, without easing in this character. We're explicitaly told how this character reacts, and naturally, that may cause rejection. This same character could've been achieved much more subtly than how it was portrayed here.

Invisible wall on their parts, serve an specific purpose. Make you go forward. That's why I don't give them much consideration as I probably should, because they go hand in hand with the overall pacing and design. They serve as purpose to keep the game feeling as 2d, by not interacting with the enviroment, except for the specific parts. But then, they offer such um jarring I guess invisible walls, mostly having to do with the Space Jump. This is probably done, to not make all the puzzles go to waste, but with a bit more fine tuning, they could've allowed for both.

And well, there are other bits that don't really fit all that well, like such a fantastic combat system, where there aren't enough enemies to take advantage of it, but at the same time, we don't want to get stuck in fighting, the importance is to always keep moving, so it's alright, although it doesn't feel quite right. Same with the whole authorization process. I don't mind the whole authorization issue like some of you, and I think it works well in this particular game, although I'd prefer it to stay here. From a gameplay perspective, it works alright, since they're not being authorized unless it's imperative to use them, and make for some fun set pieces (some more than others) and the basic power up progression issue, by crossing certain areas with and without certain abilities shed a few lights. But it does feel kinda out of place.

I may be forgetting a few more issues, but my point is that, that the flaws it has, are not inherent 100% bad, but rather a lack of focus and polish in certain aspects, but would've been easily fixed and avoided, so that's why it comes both as a dissapointment and as a triumph to me.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I totally forgot, this game is totally obtuse. Was gonna mention it, but I forgot. It isn't carried with the elegance of Super's design while teaching wall jump, shinespark and using the powerbomb to blow up Maridia. Instead, they come incredibly obtuse in a context where these type of things aren't allowed. People had issues with the power bomb, the grapple beam among others, and it doesn't do a great job at explaining the combat system as well. This is bad game design. No doubt.
 

Boney

Banned
GrotesqueBeauty said:
I guess some people have a preference for the game freezing to load, obtuse objectives where you track through mostly empty sectors just to trigger an event telling you to turn around and come back, nonsensically timed item authorization, seemingly important subplots that fizzle out without notable resolution, and possibly the biggest cock tease/block in the last decade of gaming (sector zero). And that's just stuff that's unambiguously bad. Unfortunately I think you're right that some people have a preference for the terribly written, overly long, and badly delivered cutscenes, as incredulous as it makes me.

There's a lot of good stuff about Other M, but those elements shouldn't have to pull double duty being awesome in and of themselves and making up for the shitty parts.
I guess the issue here is that they're artifcially creating this aspect of Metroid's games since you actually have the abilities at your disposal. It doesn't bother me, because I guess I can go with the in game logic, you're not gonna get your abilities authorized just because, and all these times they gave you another more important objective, since everybody else was dying, and you had to take over everybody's responsabilities.

And as for Sector Zero, I've been cockblocked so many times in videogames, I totally had the feeling I wasn't gonna play it I guess. And since Adam gives you an good enough replacement mission right away, I didn't mind. But regardless, I wouldn't consider a cockblock an inherent issue in game design 'worthy' of being mentioned.
 
Someone mentioned lack of polish, and I agree. For a Nintendo title, where I'm used to a near-flawless experience, there are just enough small issues to detract from the quality of gameplay.

One is the "delay" in grappling. When I press "2" there is a slight delay before Samus jumps. Is it on purpose or just me? I'm used to smoothly jumping from hook to hook.

Another is the delay before you're herded to your next objective. Two examples: one where you're unable to keep going in the Pyrosphere because you need the Grapple Beam (I ended up jumping into the lava to try to keep going, then was halfway back to the elevator before Adam told me to go back), and another when I'm waiting for Adam to authorize Shinespark. The triggers seemed to be too slow in both instances.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Lone_Prodigy said:
Someone mentioned lack of polish, and I agree. For a Nintendo title, where I'm used to a near-flawless experience, there are just enough small issues to detract from the quality of gameplay.

One is the "delay" in grappling. When I press "2" there is a slight delay before Samus jumps. Is it on purpose or just me? I'm used to smoothly jumping from hook to hook.

Another is the delay before you're herded to your next objective. Two examples: one where you're unable to keep going in the Pyrosphere because you need the Grapple Beam (I ended up jumping into the lava to try to keep going, then was halfway back to the elevator before Adam told me to go back), and another when I'm waiting for Adam to authorize Shinespark. The triggers seemed to be too slow in both instances.

It depends on when you press the jump button. There is no delay when I do it.
 

etiolate

Banned
I don't know. Having people admit the game is unpolished for a Metriod/Nintendo title and features elements that should have just never been in the final product is a progressive step. You wouldn't see people saying that a 100 pages back.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
etiolate said:
I don't know. Having people admit the game is unpolished for a Metriod/Nintendo title and features elements that should have just never been in the final product is a progressive step. You wouldn't see people saying that a 100 pages back.

Don't worry I'll set us back. It doesn't feel unpolished to me at all.

Keep on truckin!
 

Boney

Banned
etiolate said:
I don't know. Having people admit the game is unpolished for a Metriod/Nintendo title and features elements that should have just never been in the final product is a progressive step. You wouldn't see people saying that a 100 pages back.
First of all, the game is unpolished for any type of game, my standards don't change depending of the product or company. Second, everybody, and I mean everybody has said the game has flaws.

So I really don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
 
jesus christ etiolate is back in this thread again?

i just beat super metroid. excellent, excellent game, but it was extremely short. i still enjoyed other m more than SM because i prefer action than to exploration. im surprised how well the game holds up even today.

biggest pet peeves with SM were the lack of any kind of checkpoints. this was the worst during the wrecked spaceship where if you die fighting the boss, you have to go all the way back to your last save. really cumbersome especially since a died a bunch of times with the boss.
 

hatchx

Banned
It's funny reading everyone trying to come to terms with their Other M experience. It's like we need to come to terms with why there is a sub-par outing in an otherwise excellent series.

Let me remind you of:


Metal Gear Solid 2
Final Fantasy 13
Super Mario Sunshine
Devil May Cry 2 (and 4)
Luigi's Mansion
Donkey Kong 64
Syphon Filter for PS2
Sonic after Dreamcast


Lots of series slip up. Atleast when Metroid 'slips up', it keeps an 80% on metacritic.


I will admit however, the 'where's waldo' sections are so incredibly dumb. So, so incredibly dumb. One more time: incredibly dumb. It's like Team Ninja took notes from the 1st gen wii mini game title. This is a flaw, and as I see it, the only unquestionable flaw in the whole game.

The other 'flaws' like the over-the-shoulder segments, the story, the controls....nothing is as offensively unplayable and immaturely designed as these where's waldo sections.
 

Azure J

Member
I really love that post of yours Boney, especially the point on the RE4 style over the shoulder sections. It really just seemed as though someone wanted to try something really interesting with it, but got told to scrap the ideas before the game got finalized. Also, on a more humorous note, I am so OCD in my games sometimes. There was a second bathroom with a door that seemingly wanted to be opened similarly (or so I thought as I played), but no matter what I tried, Samus wouldn't interact with it. It took me a few minutes to realize that this wasn't meant to be explored any further and I got all D: about it. :lol
 
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