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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
- Thread starter Sadist
- Start date
Ushojax said:
Ok, no one is saying that Metroid is between Mario and wii fit as far as sellers go.
It's however not Custom Robo either.
To claim that it's not surprising that the game could pull low sales akin to S&P is downright disingenious
edit : then again looking at the design of the game, it certainly isn't surprising...
Mael said:
I'm not saying I expected it to sell like S+P, and it didn't. It sold a lot more. All I'm saying, is that given the tone of the game, given the fact that the last Wii Metroid game came out 3 years ago, given the fact that Metroid has never been a big seller, given the market on the Wii, it was expected. Game design had nothing to do with it. Most people just don't care about Wii software any more. The poor sales are not a judgment on the design. Most people never even played it. How could they have an opinion on the quality of the game?
Vangu Vegro
Member
Mael, you wanted proof that people liked Other M. I hope this post counts as proof positive that at least yours truly liked it, thought it was the perfect translation into 3D of the Metroid formula and a return to form for the franchise.
I sympathize with your anger though, cause my thoughts about the Prime trilogy are very similar to yours about Other M.
In an ideal world, "Team Ninja", but I'd settle for "anyone but Retro".
I sympathize with your anger though, cause my thoughts about the Prime trilogy are very similar to yours about Other M.
In an ideal world, "Team Ninja", but I'd settle for "anyone but Retro".
It's crazy how variably received this game has been. As I posted long ago I am a huge Metroid fan and so much of Other M's decisions with game design and control design was enough to suck any enjoyment I had right out of the experience.
I know of a few people who refuse to play it as they find the Wii remote on it's side either too small, or too uncomfortable. I found switching between holding the controller sideways and switching to pointing on the screen tedious and awkward. Although I could handle the transition fine it just felt off during gameplay.
The game should have had the option of nunchuck control and that is a simple fact. Running around as Samus would have felt fantastic with analogue control and after playing the Prime series the morph ball function felt like a joke to control in comparison. Major steps backwards. Plus with the nunchuck being used the controller would have been pointed more toward the screen ala Resident Evil 4 or Metroid Prime. A simple button press would have then have activated first person mode and the transition and control would have been far smoother and better balanced.
I love the Prime Trilogy and have gone through Super Metroid, Fusion, Zero Mission etc and I traded this game in without thinking twice which for a huge Metroid fan is a surprise.
I'm glad many people here like it but if a sequel has to be made and follows this route with few or no changes I won't be onboard for the ride and this is a huge pity as after Uncharted 2, Other M was the biggest title for me this year and let me down badly which was a shame.
I know of a few people who refuse to play it as they find the Wii remote on it's side either too small, or too uncomfortable. I found switching between holding the controller sideways and switching to pointing on the screen tedious and awkward. Although I could handle the transition fine it just felt off during gameplay.
The game should have had the option of nunchuck control and that is a simple fact. Running around as Samus would have felt fantastic with analogue control and after playing the Prime series the morph ball function felt like a joke to control in comparison. Major steps backwards. Plus with the nunchuck being used the controller would have been pointed more toward the screen ala Resident Evil 4 or Metroid Prime. A simple button press would have then have activated first person mode and the transition and control would have been far smoother and better balanced.
I love the Prime Trilogy and have gone through Super Metroid, Fusion, Zero Mission etc and I traded this game in without thinking twice which for a huge Metroid fan is a surprise.
I'm glad many people here like it but if a sequel has to be made and follows this route with few or no changes I won't be onboard for the ride and this is a huge pity as after Uncharted 2, Other M was the biggest title for me this year and let me down badly which was a shame.
Ushojax said:
Pfft, excuses and all that. Seriously if people like a game, they'll make it known. That's how words of mouth works, actually that's how sales appart from the initial sales work.
This game is/was promoted enough that people who browse the Wii retail side know that it's there. The way the game was marketed left little to no room for it to do well (seriously in Japan the whole thumbs down?).
Thus leaving the word of mouth, which is how Mario kart and other manage theses explosive sales.
If the game does NOT have good words of mouth, it will kill the sales which I'm arguing is what's happening right here.
And NO, mature market for Wii is not a good excuse : Activision has no problem selling their games.
Don't give me the : but Metroid is only single player adventure. Metroid has already been in the online multi fps type and even pinball. At this point they could have mixed it up a bit and tried something else other than the money repellant they released.
Vangu Vegro, actually I wanted proof positive that most people liked it, which is vastly harder to prove if you disregard sales trends and critical reception.
And for the record, I have no problem playing games with the remote on the side, that's how I prefer to play nsmbw, mario kart and a probably the next dkc.
One of the big problems that most assuredly sucked any enjoyment I have with the game is how I'm never in control of anything while playing it, the movie theatre mode is probably more fun due how I can actually control how it goes.
And for the record, I'm actually a Metroid fan that cares, that's why I'm even there.
What I see here is simply the Shining Forcization of the franchise, there's a reason I don't want that to happen.
As it is, Metroid is irrelevant right now. That's just how it is : it doesn't pull in numbers and the experience they provide is not interesting enough to influence anything => they're irrelevant.
And I'm speaking of the Nintendo R&D1/SPD/Project M produced evidently.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Mael said:
Umm...What games are you talking about? The Call of Duty series is a bigger franchise than Metroid by far.
Oh, and you can add me to the people who loved this game, despite the bad storytelling. Hopefully we'll get another one from Sakamoto and Team Ninja for the 3DS.
(and maybe also a Prime-style game from Retro for the 'Wii HD')
Oh man i really need to play this game again
it was such a great experience the first time through! definately want to 100% it and hardmode it.
I really hope nintendo gives Team Ninja and Sakamoto another go on this
Other m with a little more content and a little better narration would probably be the best metroid ever hands down.
it was such a great experience the first time through! definately want to 100% it and hardmode it.
I really hope nintendo gives Team Ninja and Sakamoto another go on this
Other m with a little more content and a little better narration would probably be the best metroid ever hands down.
farnham said:
Well probably not Mario though...
That's also a good point though, one could argue that they (Nintendo) cultivate the audience to make sure their games don't fall short.
Meaning that Mario makes the audience so that Princess Peach or Kirby might sell and so on.
If you remove Mario off the equation the others fall short.
Mario on 360 ? nah i dont think it will sell. the 360 gamers are more interested in gory shooters then in fat plumbers.Mael said:
now if they make mario into a bald space marine with a bad attitude and goombas into hulking dudes with machine guns it might have a chance.
Zelda might sell on PS3 in Japan if they make it Dynastywarrior like.
farnham said:
Actually Mario is pretty much the alpha of game sales, I'm pretty sure the audience for Mario would actually buy a 360 to get their Mario, kinda like FF.
Heck just look at how many wiis were sold just for nsmbw (and they're actually bundling it just one year after its release).
So yeah I think 360 gamers would like it....well it would create 360 gamers actually.
People act like if the only bad thing was the story. Even if you take the cutscenes and dialog away, the game has other huge flaws that can't be overlooked, the lack of exploration, the bland level design, the item progression. The game simply doesn't stand well when compared to previous Metroid games.
Mario is selling well on wii because the wii is regarded as the default kiddy platform. the 360 is not. mario on 360 would suffer the same way banjo (which was a high selling platformer on n64) suffered on 360.Mael said:
I could see it doing something like 2 or 3 million on PS3 though if the ratchet crowd bites
exploration is not lacking. the structure is just different as the main story is meant to be played very linearly while the post game content is more like a traditional metroid game.mantidor said:
the level design is a bit lacking but it has its moments imo (especially the gravity stuff).
items... i dunno i liked it.
farnham said:
Actually that's right if we're talking about the 3D Mario games who are a different beast, but for 2d Mario I'm absolutely positive that it would propel the audience for that game to the platform it's on.
If you look at the sales trend of the Wii, it's quite clear that many didn't even consider the little white box before that game shipped. In that regard it's akin to Halo or FF, people that are fan of the game will pick up the console to play it no matter where it is.
People don't really care if 2D Mario is kiddy or anything, they just want to play that game.
I mean we're talking off a type of game that manage to have a serie of enhanced remake propel and support a platform on its own.
Seriously same way the people who wanted a rpg went to ps1 when ffvii was released, people who want 2d sidescroller will go where the plumber goes if it's released
farnham said:
Exploration IS lacking, there's nothing to explore since you're always funnelled to the next save station and the post game is actually lookatmapfordot-gothere-collectitem.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Zelda and Mario are some of the biggest franchises around. They would sell nicely on any platform with the right marketing.
It seems people put too much weight on the whole 'only Nintendo fans like Nintendo games' -thing. Do people really think that all of the seven million or so people (Wii and Gamcube combined) who bought Twilight Princess were all hardcore Nintendo-fans?
Oh, and I think the changes in the Wii-userbase over the last few years is a genuine reason (if not the only one) as to why Other M didn't sell as well as Prime 3. Just look at how much better Umbrella Chronicles , the original No More Heroes and Red Steel sold than their respective sequels did. During 2007 - early 2008 there were still some core gamers who had an interest in the WIl. Now it seems they have pretty much all jumped ship...
It seems people put too much weight on the whole 'only Nintendo fans like Nintendo games' -thing. Do people really think that all of the seven million or so people (Wii and Gamcube combined) who bought Twilight Princess were all hardcore Nintendo-fans?
Oh, and I think the changes in the Wii-userbase over the last few years is a genuine reason (if not the only one) as to why Other M didn't sell as well as Prime 3. Just look at how much better Umbrella Chronicles , the original No More Heroes and Red Steel sold than their respective sequels did. During 2007 - early 2008 there were still some core gamers who had an interest in the WIl. Now it seems they have pretty much all jumped ship...
i will believe it when i see it. i really think that the whole mario ip is so synonymous to the nintendo name (similar to other nintendo franchises like zelda, metroid, pokemon and donkeykong) that it would do horribly if its not on a nintendo platform but i might be wrong.Mael said:
Neon_Icarus said:
no but nintendo games outside of the wii_ franchise is very very specific and only appeals to certain demographics (kids and adults that like kids games) even more so then the 360 shooters.
Neon_Icarus said:
Where to begin....
RE:UC sold well because people wanted a new RE4 experience and that was the next best thing. With much waiting capcom did its very best to squander what goodwill people had in them with Chop till you drop and another rail shooter people weren't asking for.
Red Steel 2, they pretty much killed the game with the lack of multiplayer and changing greatly the identity of the game, meaning they might have changed the name of the game as well and it would have fared better. Seriously Red Steel had a multiplayer experience that people wanted (and is now integrated in Goldeneye btw) the decision to kill it was reason enough to ignore the sequel for some.
And well nmh is quite clearly a fluke.
While I can see that in all theses cases the devs wanted to make the very best game they could (and I believe that while they failed here it was also what they wanted). Some boneheaded decision killed any chance they might have had.
Seriously RS2 would have fared as it did if it was released at the same time as The Conduit or nsmbw.
To claim that they did badly because the market is dead is quite disingenious since it ignores all the mistakes the games are riddled with.
farnham said:
I really believe 2D Mario is something else like Tetris and some few others.
I mean there can't be more than 20mil Nintendo fanboys only buying Mario games, there just can't be.
I mean it's the kind of game people REALLY want to play so much that even flash games have versions floating around.
Mario is, similar to pokemon, the default kiddy game imo.Mael said:
If parents buy their kids a present for christmas or birthday or whatever and the kid has a nintendo console they will probably grab either pokemon or mario not because it is something that the parents now that their kids want to play that desperately but rather because its just the biggest kids game out there.
i can ask the whole thing differently. is there any thirdparty, ms or sony kids game that has similar brand value ?
no.. its like mickey mouse. its the name that sells now (also thats why mario 25th anniversary collection seems to be the last messiah for the wii).
Neon_Icarus
Member
Mael said:
Do you have any data to back up your claims? What you are saying may be accepted as fact in Neogaf, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.
I'm not saying there weren't other factors involved, there always are, but you're kidding yourself if you think that the market for 'core-gamer'-orientated Wii games hasn't shrunk dramatically. The numbers speak for themselves.
farnham said:
You're right in thinking that any parent that want to offer a good present seeing the plumber will probably pick it up (just look at how well it usually does on holydays).
But the thing is Mario is beyond that now, it's not only the children that are playing this game.
Heck as a kid I found the Mario games fun but not exactly the best thing ever (I was more of a Double Dragon guy, sosume I guess).
The adults ARE some of the target audience for 2D Mario too, it's quite clear for nsmb on DS as it is and the marketing on nsmbw is clear too on targetting older audience as well.
Any other company would kill, maim and torture at the chance of having something like that for kids or otherwise.
Heck Sony is probably hoping that their LBP somehow manage to catch some of the remnants of the lightning of that franchise (or at least they really should).
Neon_Icarus said:
Pretty simple,
when and why was UC released?
On the coat tail of RE4:WE.
What was the word from Capcom at the time :
"Buy UC to prove there's an audience there, if the game do more than 600 000 we'll keep RE on Wii"
-> REUC do over a million
=> Capcom : 'Here's chop till you drop'
-> DR :CTYD bomb ultra hard
=> Capcom : 'Here's your RE'
-> another lightgun shooter that nobody asked for
Red Steel was marketed as the fps reference for Wii, if they didn't expect people to want multiplayer local or not they're dumber than rocks.
Really there's no project that I see that could have done well at all, market being dead or not. Again CoD seems to be doing allright and they're just providing the bare minimum with that. I mean EA tried to change an otherwise normal franchise like Madden and now nobody want it.
there are core gamer oriented wii games ?Neon_Icarus said:
lets say it like this.Mael said:
if nintendo decides to go thirdparty and back the 360 i could see mario selling on that platform. if nintendo decides to sell off the IP to activision or ea or something.. i dont think it will do that great on the other platforms
farnham said:
1rst : Mario is not kiddy.
Yoshi is, ditto for Kirby.
Mario? quite clearly not, that's not how it's perceived, the competitors may try to frame it as such to propel their properties but that doesn't make it so.
2nd : EA can't make it better than Nintendo, they don't have a team of people with the experience at making a proper platformer of the level of Mario.
That was made clear with Professor Hatworth (which is still an awesoem game).
Without the backing of Nintendo a game that is just like Mario would still fare great, I mean Sega is on the map because of Sonic after all and that one is still pulling numbers despite being shite for nearly 10 years (and recovering somehow now).
farnham said:
Nope, it's not....at least not here.
Same goes for Animal Crossing wild world, they didn't market it to kids either.
Now any game with Yoshi and Kirby....
Heck if I go by the marketing, they're targeting the Gap crowd.
farnham said:
Yeah and that's pretty much how I replied.
I think that if they fuck it up beyond repair it would do well.
Then again they don't have anyone to do it well so...
maybe they are trying to broaden the audience a bit and banking a bit on nostalgia and stuffMael said:
but traditionally mario is a kids game and regarded as one.
there is a reason why sony or sega tried to capture the 15 - 35 male audience in the first place. they knew that it would be hard to go toe to toe with nintendo on the kids market.
farnham said:
nope it's like Tetris or space invaders, it's a game.
It's not particularly regarded as a kid's game more than the other 2.
If anything to reach the status of evergreenthatcan'tstopbeingonthecharts for 4 years it needs to be something else than a kid's game or clearly it's a more lucrative than I've been told.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Mael said:
First of all, it is pretty unlikely that more than about 5 % of the people who bought UC knew about Capcom's promises of more RE4-style content. RE is a very mainstream franchise, and only the most hardcore of gamers follow game news religiously enough to have heard about them.
Besides, how many gamers are there in general, who would buy a game they don't want, in order to finance a game they might want?
And sure, the lack of multiplayer might have damaged Red Steel 2's sales. On the other hand, the fact that it had dramatically improved sword play and controls in general (and had much better reviews than the original as well) should have been helped it sell at least as well as the original. There are many factors involved in Red Steel 2's poor success, but looking at the sales of coregamer-oriented Wii software overall, it is clear that the change in the Wii-userbase was the major factor.
The last Call of Duty sold what, a million for the Wii? And this is THE core-gamer franchise of the moment. Sure it may have lacked some features, but they still did an admirable job considering the systems capabilities and Nintendo's limited online architecture. Considering the disparity between the popularity of the two franchises (and the fact that the previous CoD was a holiday season release) , it doesn't seem surprising that a Metroid game sold about half as much on the current Wii software-market.
Could you point out to me another core-oriented game comparable to Other M, that sold fine during the last year or so?
interesting how tetris or space invaders are hardly games that are on the charts for 4 yearsMael said:
Neon_Icarus said:
the last call of duty was a game that was released 2 years after its initial release sir..
just saying
monster hunter 3 sold like a million last year sirNeon_Icarus said:
Neon_Icarus said:
Well they did release RE4:WE after all, and it was probably to capitalize on that that the very first UC was even greelighted.
Heck they even tried to pull the Archives with the quick ports and all.
I mean I wouldn't put past Capcom's shaddy technic either
Neon_Icarus said:
The same that buy only new games to explicitely supports the devs (meaning no one really :lol)
Neon_Icarus said:
Let's be real for one second, the fact that the game is single player only is on the back of the box, the fact that the game control better and all that is on some obscure website....
Not rocket science to know that one factor will have a bigger influence...
The fact that they changed the game completely without any warning AND that the first one didn't actually put the world on fire also helps
Neon_Icarus said:
Nope, it wouldn't have sold better in other circumstances.
Neon_Icarus said:
This is also the core franchise where they provide no marketing at all AND release a 2 year old version to make sure no one is interested in it.
They couldn't make it clearer that they don't want to sell it if they upped the price to 100bucks.
Compare that with Other M which has actual marketing, hype and all that and it's laughable that they couldn't pull more than Treyarch port job.
Could you point to any at all, and they need to be in a serie that as popular as Metroid too.Neon_Icarus said:
I don't want to talk about why Silent Hill didn't sell as much as it did when Silent Hill couldn't be made mainstream if the marketing team's life depended on it.
farnham said:
:lol bad examples, then again what games are on the chart for 4 years?
I mean there's Mario Kart, Wii___ games and nsmb...
Even GTA probably didn't pull that off last gen.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Mael said:
Well, the PS2 Silent Hill's sold decently. The franchise is not what it used to be though...
Anyway, it looks like given the evidence we can't really say whether or not there is a market for core-oriented games for the Wii right now. All we know is that this year software sales have gone down, despite more high quality games getting released for the Wii than last year. I think Goldeneye's sales will be telling. It certainly has the brand name and strong marketing going for it.
Nevertheless, Other M hasn't finished selling quite yet. It may just end up getting a small boost from the holiday season.
Completed it last week. Good game, although not as good as I hoped it would be.
Story was so and so. I liked the Adam character and the interaction between Samus and him, but the rest wasn't that good.
Music is one of my biggest complaints. It's awful.
The first person pixel hunt is another big complaint. I spent a lot of time trying to find what I was supposed to look at without succeeding. They could at least given you a hint of what to look at...
Controls works okay. I had some problem trying to jump onto enemies, but otherwise good. The switching from third to first person view gets old really fast. It works, but it's not that fun and slows the game down way too much. Otherwise the new control with it's 2D to 3D stuff is pretty neat.
Fighting enemies is a chore. I felt like this in the Prime games too. You just shoot and shoot and the enemies are still there. You fight a new miniboss and five minutes later you fight the same miniboss again. This is what I hoped would be different from the prime games. The 2D games never felt like this. Enemies were there, but they were merely minor obstacles in favor for the puzzle solving and platforming.
Puzzles never felt that clever or rewarding. I guess when you're switching from 2D to 3D a lot of potentially hidden areas disappear and you have to come up with new ways to hide them.
The game is also a bit short, or at least that's what it felt like. I had also no idea that I completed the game when I actually did. I expected something more.
Story was so and so. I liked the Adam character and the interaction between Samus and him, but the rest wasn't that good.
Music is one of my biggest complaints. It's awful.
The first person pixel hunt is another big complaint. I spent a lot of time trying to find what I was supposed to look at without succeeding. They could at least given you a hint of what to look at...
Controls works okay. I had some problem trying to jump onto enemies, but otherwise good. The switching from third to first person view gets old really fast. It works, but it's not that fun and slows the game down way too much. Otherwise the new control with it's 2D to 3D stuff is pretty neat.
Fighting enemies is a chore. I felt like this in the Prime games too. You just shoot and shoot and the enemies are still there. You fight a new miniboss and five minutes later you fight the same miniboss again. This is what I hoped would be different from the prime games. The 2D games never felt like this. Enemies were there, but they were merely minor obstacles in favor for the puzzle solving and platforming.
Puzzles never felt that clever or rewarding. I guess when you're switching from 2D to 3D a lot of potentially hidden areas disappear and you have to come up with new ways to hide them.
The game is also a bit short, or at least that's what it felt like. I had also no idea that I completed the game when I actually did. I expected something more.
And I don't think the extra part you play after the credits makes up for it
Neon_Icarus
Member
farnham said:
True, Call of Duty was an old port, but Wii-only gamers wouldn't have played it before. And people with HD consoles, probably don't play FPS-games on the Wii anyway, regardless of how good the game is.
Monster Hunter is a HUGE franchise in Japan. The fact that it took long for Capcom to sell through its first shipment tells us that it didn't quite perform according to expectations. It did kind of okay in the West, but that was thanks to Nintendo's huge advertising campaign. They even had adverts in the cinema here in the UK, something which they only do with their biggest releases.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-voice-metroid-other/707254
Gametrailers did an interview with Jessica Martins - the voice for Samus in Other M. She makes some interesting remarks about the character.
She seems like a good voice actor, too bad the writing wasn't up to par.
Gametrailers did an interview with Jessica Martins - the voice for Samus in Other M. She makes some interesting remarks about the character.
She seems like a good voice actor, too bad the writing wasn't up to par.
is there any other million seller outside of FFXIII on consoles ?Neon_Icarus said:
saying that a million seller is a dissapointment this gen in japan is laughable.
so haters can finally see her face and throw insults at hersolblade00 said:
good job gametrailers (i loved her VO btw)
AgentOtaku
Member
Actually finished (yeah I know I really drew this out) and ....well let's just say last hour or so is borderline terrible =/
- Over exposition + stale as petrified wood dialog
- competent to mind numbingly bad boss fights
...I went from digging the hell out of Other M to almost hating it in such a short while, it's kinda crazy.
One thing is for sure, I NEVER want to play a Metroid like this ever again...
PS: if you can't lock your framerate at 60, then fucking lock it 30 and call it a day. So many parts where you're borderline swimming through fights. Absolutely terrible...
double PS: got so sick of just hold left, then right, then left, etc.
Traversal becomes such a boring chore...
- Over exposition + stale as petrified wood dialog
- competent to mind numbingly bad boss fights
Phantoon is so badly designed. Just highlight's negatives of combat mechanics to the x100
...I went from digging the hell out of Other M to almost hating it in such a short while, it's kinda crazy.
One thing is for sure, I NEVER want to play a Metroid like this ever again...
PS: if you can't lock your framerate at 60, then fucking lock it 30 and call it a day. So many parts where you're borderline swimming through fights. Absolutely terrible...
double PS: got so sick of just hold left, then right, then left, etc.
Traversal becomes such a boring chore...
balladofwindfishes
Member
Oh wow, I forgot about this game.
I can't believe people are still talking about it, especially since most people find it to be a "meh" game.
I can't believe people are still talking about it, especially since most people find it to be a "meh" game.
AgentOtaku
Member
balladofwindfishes said:
I put it away for awhile because it just couldn't hold my interest (wouldn't admit that until now). But, I had some time off from work and wanted to finish it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The game part is fantastic, but the story parts were kind of meh.farnham said:
I love feeling like a super space ninja, that part was awesome. If the game was only the gameplay part, it would have been so much better. For a game that flows fantastic while playing, it's just an awkward design choice to halt that flow with a 5 minute cutscene of samus staring at some creature or having some internal dialog. Save that stuff for loading screens like Fusion and Prime did.