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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him
- Thread starter Sadist
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UpperCaseN
Member
Just fired this up, am about 3 hours in. Playing the game is great, it's the cutscenes and dialogue that make me cringe. Those whole scene with the thumbs up/down was really hard to watch
I suppose it is a solid game, but looking back, I'm not finding much memorable about it.farnham said:
In fact, I often think about popping the Prime games in for another replay, but I never feel the same way about Other M. It didn't leave a good impression.
The fact that its technical performance is poor also damages the replay value. I rarely return to games that feel sloppy or technically deficient. The Prime games were rock solid in this regard while Other M is most certainly not.
Not at all. It dropped constantly. EVERY time you transitioned between rooms, it dropped, and also whenever the combat heated up. There were even times when it would drop just while running through an empty room.Sagitario said:
The drops were not too heavy, fortunately enough, but it still took a lot of polish away from the experience for me.
I also found the camera work to be quite ugly. The way it moves through objects just looked wrong and I feel they could have found a more elegant solution to their problem.
AgentOtaku
Member
Sagitario said:
Fuck no it isnt ...Especially towards the last few hours. Framerate is constantly dropping. What makes it worse, it's one of those situations where the framerate drops, the game slows down as well (like an old NES game). So when devs or whoever can go on and on about 60fps, responsive controls, fluid gameplay experiences, etc. It means fuck all when your game does the opposite of that.
Situations like this, always prefer if they lock it at 30fps and just push visual fidelity further instead. What we get here is choppy framerate, box room after box room, muddy textures everywhere, etc. All for an unstable 60fps anyway...
_Alkaline_
Member
I thought it was a pretty great game. Not at the same level as Super or Echoes, but still a great experience. At its best the game is very, very good and is the first game in the series to truly capture Metroid movement in 3D. But it also has some really puzzling design issues, most notably the Where's Waldo stuff, that holds the game back from greatness.
AgentOtaku, What was wrong with
I thought he was excellently handled. He looked fantastic and was fun to battle, required a lot of emphasis on the sense move. The
, on the other hand, was bullshit. Nintendo games shouldn't have such a obscure solution in the last boss battle of their game. Couldn't believe how poorly that was done.
Thankfully, Ridley was at his best here. Definitely the best rendition of Ridley, from the model to the music to the actual fight itself. The end sequence was also the best in any Metroid game. And don't forget the gravity section. See, this game does have memorable moments. It's just a shame about some of the other moments in between.
AgentOtaku, What was wrong with
Phantoon?
Queen Metroid
Thankfully, Ridley was at his best here. Definitely the best rendition of Ridley, from the model to the music to the actual fight itself. The end sequence was also the best in any Metroid game. And don't forget the gravity section. See, this game does have memorable moments. It's just a shame about some of the other moments in between.
I just finished this for the first time a couple of days ago.
What an underwhelming Metroid. Definitely enjoyed it the least of any title in the series. I won't get into specifics because they've all been mercilessly beaten to death in this thread.
Long story short, yet another beloved game series continues to slowly lose relevance to me. Oh well.
What an underwhelming Metroid. Definitely enjoyed it the least of any title in the series. I won't get into specifics because they've all been mercilessly beaten to death in this thread.
Long story short, yet another beloved game series continues to slowly lose relevance to me. Oh well.
What really blocked me at first on that battle was that you need to destroy an arbitrary number of metroids before to move to the next phase while I was still focused on the main boss._Alkaline_ said:
The last part I was just "man if only I got the
giga-bomb
Ridley battle in Other M is memorable._Alkaline_ said:
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I think the reason the framerate drops is due to loading. Those were the only parts I noticed it and thought it was well worth the sacrifice. I could probably count on one hand the number of load screens I encountered in the game. I never had a problem with the framerate except for the instances when you were switching rooms and it never affected gameplay for me.dark10x said:
AgentOtaku
Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Basically it came down to just spamming the sense move ...that's it. Oh and a power bomb here and there for crowd control. Oddly enough, I beat
MB
It's most obvious while switching rooms simply because there isn't much going on, but it definitely happens quite a bit during combat.MadOdorMachine said:
It's definitely related to loading/transitioning between rooms BUT this is EXACTLY what Team Ninja has been doing for years with the Ninja Gaiden series on XBOX, XBOX360, and PS3. Those games fare much better and move smoothly between areas without dropping the framerate. That's not to say NG2 doesn't have its share of framerate issues, but it's definitely more stable overall. It did not suffer from drops while moving between areas, however. The XBOX original was the smoothest of all, actually, which is even more surprising.
The Prime series loads between rooms as well. It definitely pauses at times, but the framerate does not drop. The Prime games also tend to feature MUCH more complex level geometry and more texture variation, which is why I'm sure those games load a touch slower at times. It's obvious that loading has no impact on framerate. Remember those elevator sequences in Prime? The game is loading at that point, yet it holds a solid 60.
They could definitely have solved the issue with some more work, I believe. It's just a shame it happens during EVERY transition. You end up seeing framerate loss on a near constant basis as a result and that kills any sense of polish the game might otherwise have going for it.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Other M, if not a better game, is probably a better conversion of the spirit of the 2D games than the Prime series. Except for the 2D/3D switch, the game plays wonderfully, and the combat is a nice evolution of the Metroid formula. I feel that there is a lot of promise here for the next game, if they can remove some of the obvious flaws and find more talented individuals to work on the level design and music.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Thanks for sharing that link.
I'm glad the interviewer made the distinction between Samus's internal voice and her external voice. So many players don't seem to get that. Samus barely speaks out loud the entire game, and when she does, it's perfectly inline with the situation and what you'd expect her to say. Her internal voice is pretty heavy handed, but if you were, let's say, on that ship with her, from your POV she'd be the exact same Samus she always was.
I enjoyed her voice. Not necessarily all the writing, but I felt her thoughts appropriate and well, how someone would generally think given the circumstance. And this woman did a good job in my opinion - plus she has an awesome smile.
I'm glad the interviewer made the distinction between Samus's internal voice and her external voice. So many players don't seem to get that. Samus barely speaks out loud the entire game, and when she does, it's perfectly inline with the situation and what you'd expect her to say. Her internal voice is pretty heavy handed, but if you were, let's say, on that ship with her, from your POV she'd be the exact same Samus she always was.
I enjoyed her voice. Not necessarily all the writing, but I felt her thoughts appropriate and well, how someone would generally think given the circumstance. And this woman did a good job in my opinion - plus she has an awesome smile.
AgentOtaku said:
Just play the game in hard mode. Cut scenes are skippable, pixel hunting is not a problem since you already know where to find things, only the over the shoulder areas are a pain.
Nevertheless, in hard mode the combat gameplay demonstrates how wonderful it is. You have no energy tanks, sense move is very necessary but fights are by no means easy.
Hard mode basically shows how the gameplay can be truly sublime.
I am currently at Ridley in hard mode. I am taking a month off so that the cramps in my hands can die down. The last few fights were holy shit intense, and playing Samus makes me feel like a ninja god.
Cosmonaut X
Member
No need for the question mark - he says nearly 500k in the US. Not clear whether that's shipped or not, though.
farnham said:
Nice to see that Other M wasn't a total bomb in the US and that Nintendo is trying to figure out why it didn't reach its potential. I thought Other M was a great game saddled with bad writing and limited by overly simple/linear level design. A sequel with more ambitious exploring/platforming and fewer cutscenes could be amazing.
Dark Machine
Member
Xellos said:
I bought it retail new, still haven't played it to the end, but I can form an opinion on the 'not too sure' reaction/non blockbuster sales I think.
Basically, I think Other M just went overboard with exposition (cutscenes, internal monologues, all that) all the way through the series we've had nothing but tidbits of character building for Samus, then suddenly Sakamoto (who directed all the plot and setting stuff) comes along and has his fanboy fanfic moment. Like "I've always wanted to do this, so let's do it all at once!" the amount of exposition relative to the other games is staggering, and it's not subtle (like previous exposition in the series) it's thrown into your face, especially during the first two hours of gameplay. For Sakamoto to do that was a massively foolish gamble, he had a character who thrived on being mysterious, whose story he could've built little by little over the course of 2-3 games, who was riding high in public affection after the Prime series, and what he did was destroy her mysterious character and 'bad-assery', make her subservient to a nitwit man hiding in a control room (Kojima would be proud), and removed some key gameplay elements (like platforming) instead of refreshing them. Put another way, instead of doing what Retro did and carefully mining Samus character depth, he decided (possibly because he thinks he'll be kicked off Metroid or up to senior management) to blow a crater instead. That Sakamoto's story is badly told, poorly written and very Japanese (don't rock the boat Samus, listen to the man Samus) in certain places, just adds to the ire.
Also usually the 'story' in any Metroid game is told while the player is still playing (not using cutscenes) to overload the game with so many, and cut down the gameplay time as a result really is bad form.
I actually think Team Ninja did a great job, Sakamoto admits in his interview to restricting them (lol like Adam) to only using the Wiimote and nothing else. The gameplay was great for me, and if anything made me wish they'd put in more bloody platforming sections instead of set-piece boss fights.
Of course, another theory is that because of the lack of replayability/not-sure reaction people are simply picking it up used in very good condition thus not adding to sales. I've seen 2nd hand sections of stores here in the UK loaded with copies that are in very good nick for under £25, and the price seems to be dropping closer to Christmas.
/dark'sbollocks
nincompoop
Banned
Err, the framerate wasn't perfect but it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be, it stayed at or near 60 for me the vast majority of the time. Maybe you need to get the duct tape on your Wii reinforced.AgentOtaku said:
So I'm playing this game, I'm probably the biggest fan of the Metroid series there is (100% on almost all the games except Metroid 2 and Echoes), and I'm wondering what the hell they were thinking when they made this game. The most important things to any Metroid game, environments, level design and music, are HORRIBLE in Other M. The music is basically nonexistent and the environment design consists of bland, unassuming areas with lots of flat surfaces and boxes and none of the intricate detail from Super or Prime. The level design mostly consists of straight corridors with square rooms connecting them. The combat is ok but Metroid has never, ever been about being some kind of space ninja, so it doesn't really matter to me. The enemies are ugly and everything just feels... mediocre. Even bad. So far this is not a worthy Metroid game by a longshot. It's like someone tried to make a Metroid game without any idea about what actually makes the franchise one of, if not the, greatest in gaming.
Oh, and I don't even feel like I need to say anything about the cutscenes. Suffice to say, they almost make me wish I'd never played that game at all because of the tainted image of Samus they've given me.
Oh, and I don't even feel like I need to say anything about the cutscenes. Suffice to say, they almost make me wish I'd never played that game at all because of the tainted image of Samus they've given me.
UpperCaseN
Member
Cutscene right before the Ridley battle was so disgusting it completely sapped the excitement out of me.
Dark Machine
Member
Gryphter said:
I know man. I got spoilered on that one in a vid-review, I was constantly saying to the screen "Wow it's Ridley, OK Samus shoot him...shoot him!...SHOOT HIM! WTF?! Shoot...at...him...he's Ridley! SHOOT! Use Plasma Beam! SHOOOOOOOOT! What the hell is going on?! You've fought this guy like...5 times already chronologically?! SHOOT AT HIM! No! Don't let him grab you! SHOOT!" etc etc.
Sakamoto is an idiot, I pray his children didn't have to suffer his bedtime stories if this is what he comes up with.
AgentOtaku
Member
Dark Machine said:I know man. I got spoilered on that one in a vid-review, I was constantly saying to the screen "Wow it's Ridley, OK Samus shoot him...shoot him!...SHOOT HIM! WTF?! Shoot...at...him...he's Ridley! SHOOT! Use Plasma Beam! SHOOOOOOOOT! What the hell is going on?! You've fought this guy like...5 times already chronologically?! SHOOT AT HIM! No! Don't let him grab you! SHOOT!" etc etc.
Sakamoto is an idiot, I pray his children didn't have to suffer his bedtime stories if this is what he comes up with.
It makes sense in regards to the prequel Manga ....if this was the first time Samus encountered him. But yeah, she's actually killed him what several times before already, so yeah, little inconsistant there...
ShockingAlberto
Member
I mean, not really.AgentOtaku said:
He came back to life. She wasn't freaked out because the thing she wanted revenge on was in front of her, she was freaked out because the thing she had taken revenge on and clearly died in front of her was alive and trying to kill her again.
Honestly, the game's storytelling and story aren't very good at all, but it's still kind of bad that people don't get the fairly obvious things.
AgentOtaku
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Well it didn't bother me. I actually like the cutscene as at the time, I didn't think about how she's already defeated him before.
Dark Machine
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
He's already come back to life numerous times, he 'dies' in Metroid, he returns as a (very powerful) cyber warrior in Prime where he gets badly wouded through the chest and falls into an abyss, Samus watches him fall. He then returns again in MP3, Samus 'kills' him again. She kills him and blows him apart in Super Metroid, but honestly if she hasn't gotten the idea that Ridley usually manages to survive impossible odds by the time of Other:M...I mean come on...If I'd killed the guy and blown apart the Pirate base with him in it in Metroid, I'd expect the bugger to be dead. If anything, the shock moment came in Prime when she found him in the frigate, and she still pointed her gun at him instantly then. Instead of having a seizure and massive introspection.
Spoiler tags in case...doubt they're needed though.
Edit: In case it seems like I'm hating, I'm not really meaning to. I like the game, and when I sit down and get into the story I enjoy it personally, but it's just too much exposition at once all in my face, having had very little/subtle stuff in the previous games.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The Prime games are not considered.Dark Machine said:
I love them, I think they're good games, but they're pretty explicitly not canon.
Super I'll give you, but being bad storytelling doesn't make it what was being argued on the last page. Back from the dead twice is still more freak-out worthy than confronted for the fifth time.
Dark Machine
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Okay, I'm not trying to start a fight here or anything, I'm genuinely interested. Why are the Prime games non-canon? I mean I can see maybe 'Hunters' not being canon...but they fill a hole in time between Metroid and Metroid 2, and refer to stuff that happened in Metroid. If they re-did Super I'm sure they'd retcon it to include references to Prime in the intro and such. I mean it was self contained, but it's still part of the canon universe IMHO. We can PM if you'd like cos this might drag the thread off topic.
That gets mixed up. The Prime games are canon, but their story is a separate arc. A separate arc doesn't remove them from canon. Essentially, Other M follows the Federation/last metroid arc, while Prime is an arc dealing with an earlier story involving phazon. Any screw ups involving events happening in Prime not being a part of Other M is just bad writing.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Well, I guess I should put it like this since there's no fan-accepted Word of God on the matter.Dark Machine said:
Sakamoto, at least as far as Other M's story goes, said at E3 in 2009 that he did not consider the Prime games when writing Other M's story. He thinks those are basically just sidestories.
Dark Machine
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Well then that just makes me think Sakamoto (much as I respect him as a game-maker, and I really do.) was being a bit silly when doing this game. I mean if he's going to say that, then I can say Other:M itself is just a sidestory, since it fills a hole between Metroid's 3 and 4 and has references to previous games in it. I mean...how can you disrespect Retro like that? I'm not a fanboy but to just say 3 highly rated, big selling and award winning games that resurrected a franchise (which they did, because most of us had forgotten Metroid in it's long absence, at least I had after the fervour for an N64 game had been crushed) don't exist? I think that's disrespectful and silly if you ask me. (I know no one is.) :-/
ShockingAlberto
Member
I like how casually accusing people of racism is just completely allowed here.KevinCow said:
Especially since Sakamoto has mentioned how much he liked the Prime series, how much he enjoyed being a part of it, and how he wants Retro to do another one.
It wasn't a matter of pride, it was just not the story he had decided on.
But no, I'm sure you're totally right and he is sitting in his General Tojo outfit at home masturbating over videos of Pearl Harbor while wondering aloud in Gargamel-like fashion what can be done to poor little Retro.
ShockingAlberto
Member
They took place, but they're entirely self-contained and have no bearing on the other games.Varjet said:
Certain things that conflict with other games (such as another Admiral in MP3 that is never mentioned again, Space Pirate lineage, Aurora Units) are generally ignored. Retro made their own story because they had no idea that the Metroid mainstory would ever be picked up again.
Version 3.0
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Yes, it does. Back from the dead once is "freak-out worthy". Twice is nothing by comparison. But Samus reacting like that is 100% more reasonable, no matter how many times Ridley's been 'dead', than writing a story in a popular series and willfully ignoring other writers' contributions with no consideration about how dumb your contradictory story might look to fans.
It's kind of bad that people don't get the fairly obvious things.
_Alkaline_
Member
KevinCow said:
Pfft. ShockingAlberto covered it beautifully, but I still feel the need to address this. Sakamoto doesn't harbour any feelings of resentment towards Retro or the Prime series. Indeed it's quite the opposite.
However, his creative vision (however flawed) was quite different to the Prime series and considering that his games are the mainline titles, and he is the creator of these games, he should be allowed to have the reigns. The Prime games are canon but are a side-story weaved in between the original Metroid and Metroid II, thus not having any real impact on the events preceeding it since they deal little with Mother Brain and instead with Phazon and Dark Samus.
As for the Ridley thing, it is in some ways a contradiction to how she reacted in Super Metroid (I'm not going to bother contrasting the original against it given the technical limitations) but just as Sakamoto's vision for this game's narrative (and the way in which it is presented to the player) is strikingly different to Super, so too is the way in which they conveyed Ridley. The manga, created early last decade, shows that Sakamoto at least at that time had a similar vision for Ridley, as Samus reacts in a similar way. Whether he intended it from the start or it's more of a recent vision for him, it's difficult to determine. Personally it doesn't really bother me and I thought the overall scope of the Ridley battle - the Little Birdie plot, the introduction, the fight itself, the aftermath and the musical score - were all quite fantastic. The fight itself was the best Ridley battle the series has seen.
UpperCaseN
Member
I just beat this. The end gave me bitter beer face
So that was the punch in the gut that made me bend over, and then you know what? a swift kick in the nuts. As I watch the credits, I get "Disc read error. Refer to manual." I eject and insert the disc a few times and nothing. In disbelief, I decide to take the game out and shelve it, but I never got to see what my percentage complete was or if there's anything at the end. Thanks guys, twas quite the reward for beating the game!
2nd to last boss, I grapple beam into his mouth and deploy bombs in his belly, no damage. I die off real quick and figure I need to use a power bomb, but it was never authorized nor did the game tell me how to do them, so I honestly didn't know how to. I quickly hit menu to check my moveset, and power bomb is not listed. I spend a few deaths trying to figure out what to do. Puzzled, I look it up online and see the solution is power bomb. WTF? She uses it anyway and I'm left there wondering if I could have been using them all along and not known.
Final boss final form locks you into 1st person view. I entertained the idea of shooting MB amidst the chaos but to be honest, I had no idea she was still in the room. (part of the cinema sequence showed her purple waveforce going down a hallway, so I thought she left). After dying a few times I looked it up and lo and behold, she's in the room. Could have made it just a tiny bit more obvious, assholes.
Final boss final form locks you into 1st person view. I entertained the idea of shooting MB amidst the chaos but to be honest, I had no idea she was still in the room. (part of the cinema sequence showed her purple waveforce going down a hallway, so I thought she left). After dying a few times I looked it up and lo and behold, she's in the room. Could have made it just a tiny bit more obvious, assholes.
So that was the punch in the gut that made me bend over, and then you know what? a swift kick in the nuts. As I watch the credits, I get "Disc read error. Refer to manual." I eject and insert the disc a few times and nothing. In disbelief, I decide to take the game out and shelve it, but I never got to see what my percentage complete was or if there's anything at the end. Thanks guys, twas quite the reward for beating the game!
_Alkaline_
Member
The
really is a massive fuck-up. It's an extraordinary bit of fanservice, and for the most part the fight is enjoyable and challenging, but the final stage of the battle is beyond obscure. It's the kind of thing you just don't see in a Nintendo game, so to see it in Metroid of all franchises was very disappointing.
Try it again though. The post-game sequence is fantastic.
Queen Metroid
Try it again though. The post-game sequence is fantastic.
_Alkaline_
Member
RagnarokX said:
But they never let you know that you can now use them. Not one bit. Not even a cutscene or transition to the menu like they did for the other upgrades. It's truly awful game design.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
A lot of people had the exact same problem as you with the parts you spoilered. Not only that, but it was pretty underwhelming. It sucks about your disc read error. The last section of the game is arguably the best part.Gryphter said:
UpperCaseN
Member
Oh yeah, I forgot about the tutorial. Still, not showing the activation blurb with how to do it (like they did for every other power in the game) and not showing it in your list of available moves was a cheap shot. Reminds me of that boss in Ninja Gaiden 2 where upon killing it, it would explode and you had to know to use a certain type of magic right upon impact.
I looked up to see what the post credits sequence is and I definitely want to play that now. I'm going to try again tonight and hopefully won't get a disc read error. If I do, I'll thrown down the $10 for a cleaning kit and try again. Never got a disc read error on my Wii before, getting worried. It is a launch unit
I looked up to see what the post credits sequence is and I definitely want to play that now. I'm going to try again tonight and hopefully won't get a disc read error. If I do, I'll thrown down the $10 for a cleaning kit and try again. Never got a disc read error on my Wii before, getting worried. It is a launch unit
I actually figured it out without help,
after the first death I couldn't think of any other way to do it, so I didn't even check if I could already use the power bombs the second time, I just did.
Which is funny, all the time I tried to use everything just for the sake of it, and repeating "screw you, stupid Adam, and stupid Samus" constantly. Who would've know that was the way to beat the semi-final boss.
Which is funny, all the time I tried to use everything just for the sake of it, and repeating "screw you, stupid Adam, and stupid Samus" constantly. Who would've know that was the way to beat the semi-final boss.
But it was showed just only from that little segment onward.Gryphter said:
That's how I knew it.
To me it felt as a inner joke about their bullshit idea of why you can't use your full powers from the start just like Samus joke about it before enabling the screw attack.
Don't know you but I've felt as Sakamoto wanted a piece of Famicom Tentei inside its last console game ( first in ages I believe ).