Support NeoGAF

[daakusedo]

There are abilities to find, I read that.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Sounds more like lazy design. Okay, they restricted themselves designwise by saying this has to progress kinda like a movie, and since she already has her superpowers from Super Metroid, they don't want her to start off all crazy like. Why not just design a game with those super powers already, and just do really interesting things with the level design? Or how about unlocking brand new powers that make the old ones unnecessary.

The other thing they did that kinda hurts it is place the game in a setting where it isn't likely that Samus could find Chozo-made power ups.

Mmm. It feels like a design built around the ficition, which, as far as I'm concerned, will always be... unhealthy.

 

[Diffense]

Well, it's not fundamentally different: you get to a certain point in the game then you can use the ability.
But it certainly feels less fulfilling that Samus has her abilities but is banned from using them.

Still, if they play their cards right, there is promise in this design from a gameplay and narrative standpoint.
The inherent frustration it must build up in both Samus and the player suggests a certain climax, eventually.

 

[qizah]

It's a real shame all the abilities are 'authorized'. Lazy, lazy fiction.

It's just a different way of unlocking abilities.

It's essentially really the same thing .. just done differently.

Plus if you read the Iwata asks feature they say there are abilities you'll collect throughout the game.

 

[Nemesis_]

It's just a different way of unlocking abilities.

It's essentially really the same thing .. just done differently.

Plus if you read the Iwata asks feature they say there are abilities you'll collect throughout the game.

Yeah, it's a different way. But it's an incredibly lazy and poorly done way of doing it.

 

[qizah]

Yeah, it's a different way. But it's an incredibly lazy and poorly done way of doing it.

How? To me I just see it as a different way of doing something. It's like when people said in the 2008 PoP game you can't die, when literally, you do - but it shows you a different animation at the end.

And for all I know it might be done that way to fit in within the context of the game's story line, I have no idea. Though, anyway I don't care too much about it - but I don't think it's lazy.

 

[Diffense]

Yeah, it's a different way. But it's an incredibly lazy and poorly done way of doing it.

I don't see the difference really.
The translation is a simple matter of emptying Samus' initial inventory and putting a power-up at each point where Adam would authorize.
It doesn't seem a lot less lazy to me.
But I think we're supposed to hate this taking orders from Adam and the arrangment will go south as the game progresses.

 

[Amalthea]

It's just a different way of unlocking abilities.

It's essentially really the same thing .. just done differently.

Plus if you read the Iwata asks feature they say there are abilities you'll collect throughout the game.

You must understand; it's not exactly the same as in the older games!

 

[Gouken]

One of the best OTs I've ever seen!


Gonna start Zero Mission tonight. I've never played it. Pretty excited!

awesome, that's the best portable version. Fusion was crap.

 

[qizah]

You must understand; it's not exactly the same as in the older games!

Oh, of course. How could I forget? :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Ani himself has already mentioned infinitely more interesting replacements for the current model.

I don't like it when the narrative cheapens the mechanical thrill of playing a game. Especially when the act of playing the game isn't exactly all that crash hot to begin with.

 

[Snytbaggen]

Some guy over at metroid2002's forum posted some impressions of the game (5h in). There are some small spoilers, so I'm putting it in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

I've been playing the game for a while and have about five hours clocked in, so I figured I'd come on and either alleviate your concerns or make you even more skeptical about Metroid: Other M. The game still has a very Metroid feel, and the action is very satisfying. The controls are tight, for the most part. Movement is quick and responsive, and the first-person elements are solid. Combat is fun, but I did run into an instance where I was repeatedly dodging instead of performing a lethal strike. Hopefully, this isn't too common.

I've progressed through the Biosphere and the Pyrosphere and am currently working my way through the Cryosphere. I've gone through maybe seven or eight boss fights so far, almost all of which incorporated third-person and first-person controls. The dynamic switching is surprisingly not as jarring as some preview articles would lead you to believe. It works well, and it gives the game a very unique twist. The combat itself plays out in a very flashy but fluid way. I have literally hopped back and forth between three Space Pirates, landing on each of their heads and plugging charge shots into their skulls like some demented game of leap frog. Oh, and the speed booster? Awesome.

There isn't much in the way of exploration. The closest parallel is Metroid: Fusion. Very linear, but with hidden alcoves and rooms with a few goodies in them every now and then to spice things up a bit.

You can regenerate your missiles and health by concentrating, which involves aiming the Wii remote at the ceiling and holding A. Originally, your health will only go back up to 99, and only if it falls below 25 or so. You can collect reserve tanks to boost how much health you gain from concentration by 100 units. Missile expansions increase your missile count by one instead of the usual five. Enemies won't drop pick-ups to refill your lost resources. You're either concentrating when the action is slow or holing up in a save room.

Now, onto the part everyone was worried about: the story.

The cutscenes are well-rendered and organic, in terms of how everything looks. Some of Samus' inner monologue feels a bit forced and unnecessary, but otherwise, everything seems to flow. Don't mistake that for "everything's a-okay," however. There are a lot of long cutscenes in the beginning that could have done with better spacing, and the cutscenes themselves are the source of one part of the game I absolutely loathe. Occasionally, you're forced to look around the environment for something specific to trigger yet another cutscene to advance the story. However, there's no clear indicator as to what you're looking for. I have spent periods upwards of ten minutes looking around for something, and I have no idea what this something is. On top of that, it's usually something very small. It destroys the pacing, and as a result, my enjoyability of the game tanks. Whoever made this design decision needs to be dragged out and flogged to death with dull wooden spoons.

Overall, I'm liking what I'm playing. It's different, but it's still Metroid.

 

[Nemesis_]

How? To me I just see it as a different way of doing something. It's like when people said in the 2008 PoP game you can't die, when literally, you do - but it shows you a different animation at the end.

And for all I know it might be done that way to fit in within the context of the game's story line, I have no idea. Though, anyway I don't care too much about it - but I don't think it's lazy.

I realise that, but I just don't see it that much in Samus' character to stop using her power ups just because someone said so. As far as I'm aware, she's already defected from the Federation and really shouldn't be taking orders from anyone.

I just feel it cheapens the experience, as Rez kind of said.

 

[daakusedo]

Samus accept the orders of Adam in this game.
That's work well with the power bomb as see in an early scene.
Oh and I just read lately a preview by Ign, it has all the complaints like you can move in first person(really, I don't understand this one), auto aim etc...
That will be a mess, even if it has a bit of hope at the end of the article.

 

[robor]

Yeah, it's a different way. But it's an incredibly lazy and poorly done way of doing it.

That is completely false. Regarding pacing, it's an intrinsic approach to the narrative element of the game; it's supposed to tie in with Samus's relationship with Adam (along with fleshing out their respective roles in the story etc) whilst synchronizing with the game's pacing through out, it's quite ingenious actually.

 

[Diffense]

Meh, don't think authorization is any cheaper/lazier than losing your gear again.
It certainly gives a different sensation and I can understand the uneasiness that results.
I feel it too and I hope I'm not giving too much credit in assuming they were going for that.
After all, one of the things Samus says in Fusion is that she "hates taking orders".

The "not being able to move in first person" complaint is largely irrelevant in my mind.
There are tons of third person games where you can't move in first person "look/aim" mode.
This is the way it is in Zelda, for example, and it has never been an issue for me.
The precedent set by the FPS Primes is the sole reason this is even coming up.

 

[kiryogi]

Gotta say for what little I could hear from the stream. I'm glad that the music still works pretty well in terms of setting the atmosphere.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It's a real shame all the abilities are 'authorized'. Lazy, lazy fiction.

During the livestream last night I literally saw Samus pick up on an unauthorized upgrade.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

During the livestream last night I literally saw Samus pick up on an unauthorized upgrade.

Followed by a million "there are lava enemies here, go ahead and use the ice beam now". There is a mix, but authorization remains the primary mode for at least a decent chunk of the game.

 

[CoolS]

So you guys would rather like Samus to loose all her equipement for the 125873 time?
And even Fusion had kind of an authorization, just that you needed to go do data rooms.

 

[daakusedo]

In the same genre as fusion, where you have to download some upgrades and at a certain point you get them by yourself, the federation keeping them.

 

[Portugeezer]

Followed by a million "there are lava enemies here, go ahead and use the ice beam now". There is a mix, but authorization remains the primary mode for at least a decent chunk of the game.

Same effect, just done differently.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'd just like to experience even a smidgen of the creative flair of Super Metroid or Prime 1. Not similarities, necessarily, I'm open to change, but I'd just like to get that very specific feeling of "wow, I wish I'd thought of this" or "wow, how on Earth did they manage to piece this world together" that Metroid usually gives me.

There's nothing interesting about weapon authorization and generic scifi hallways with weirdly high ceilings. It's empty, unaffecting and cheap. They're not qualities I admire in any medium. Yes, I might as well have found it sitting in the floor, but that's not the point. I could have got it by finding a hidden antechamber specially designed in the game's fiction to house it, or ripped it from an enemy. It isn't about the ultimate effect on the act of playing the game so much as it is about how the player got to that point. At least try and fake inspiration!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Followed by a million "there are lava enemies here, go ahead and use the ice beam now". There is a mix, but authorization remains the primary mode for at least a decent chunk of the game.

...Wasn't that the only other upgrade that happened that night?

 

[Door2Dawn]

nm

 

[Effect]

Samus accept the orders of Adam in this game.
That's work well with the power bomb as see in an early scene.
Oh and I just read lately a preview by Ign, it has all the complaints like you can move in first person(really, I don't understand this one), auto aim etc...
That will be a mess, even if it has a bit of hope at the end of the article.

That's pretty much what my problem with IGN has been for a long time concerning their reviews. They always look at games, especially Wii games it seems this generation, with what they wanted them to be instead of judging the game for what they actually are. If their complaint is (I refuse to go to the site anymore as I don't want to contribute to their network traffic) wanting to be able to walk while in first person view ala Metroid Prime series that's simply a case of them wanting the game to be something its not. How can you fairly judge a game when from the very start you want it to be something else?

 

[Incitemaybe]

That's pretty much what my problem with IGN has been for a long time concerning their reviews. They always look at games, especially Wii games it seems this generation, with what they wanted them to be instead of judging the game for what they actually are. If their complaint is (I refuse to go to the site anymore as I don't want to contribute to their network traffic) wanting to be able to walk while in first person view ala Metroid Prime series that's simply a case of them wanting the game to be something its not. How can you fairly judge a game when from the very start you want it to be something else?

You can't.


This is why it's difficult to see people take numerical scores at face value and trumpet them as a definitive judgment on a games quality. There are universals out there, it's just alot of people can't separate their opinion from actual game quality.

All we can do is know what we ourselves like about games, game genres, and Metroid (pick your game).
Then when reading a review, understand how to separate the opinion from what is important to you....the player/reader. Reading many viewpoints also helps to understand what may actually be problems versus a reviewer who can't let go of his childhood.

I guess the bottom line is you will see many people who are hung up on review scores from particular sites or who hold sanctimoniously to expectations for a particular game ....and yes, it's strange and sad and to some, makes little sense.

 

[farnham]

Well RE4 did got high scores even though you cant move while you are shooting

 

[Rogerkiller]

how much time for the reviews embargo to end?

 

[slaughterking]

90 minutes if the embargo really ends at 10 am PDT.

 

[Nemesis_]

That is completely false. Regarding pacing, it's an intrinsic approach to the narrative element of the game; it's supposed to tie in with Samus's relationship with Adam (along with fleshing out their respective roles in the story etc) whilst synchronizing with the game's pacing through out, it's quite ingenious actually.

As was said before, Samus specifically says in one of her monologues during Fusion that she absolutely hates taking orders, which is why it doesn't sit right by me. It's what's been established by the canon, and it's what I'm going by. So I don't think I'm "completely false" for what is essentially my opinion.

I don't aim to be an apologist for this kind of thing, but I personally feel it's cheap and kind of half assed. Rez has articulated my feelings in a much better way than I can. But yeah. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Guevara]

Well RE4 did got high scores even though you cant move while you are shooting

That was 5 years ago. And on replay that would be my only complaint with the game's controls.

Plus RE4 was such a quantum leap from the previous games that any minor quibbles seem insignificant. A more appropriate example might be RE5, which got major complaints about the inability to walk and shoot.

The Metroid series has always had great controls (DS abomination aside) so this may represent a step backwards.

 

[heringer]

As was said before, Samus specifically says in one of her monologues during Fusion that she absolutely hates taking orders, which is why it doesn't sit right by me. It's what's been established by the canon, and it's what I'm going by. So I don't think I'm "completely false" for what is essentially my opinion.

I don't aim to be an apologist for this kind of thing, but I personally feel it's cheap and kind of half assed. Rez has articulated my feelings in a much better way than I can. But yeah. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Well, she says she hates taking orders in Fusion but she still follow orders in Fusion, so why is it a problem now?

 

[Nemesis_]

Well, she says she hates taking orders in Fusion but she still follow orders in Fusion, so why is it a problem now?

I don't think Samus was outwardly denied the use of her equipment she both already had and was able to use through the orders she received in Fusion. The way they tied into the "authorisation" of power ups in Fusion tied in directly with the fact she had a new suit, and that worked as a nice twist to how it was usually done.

 

[zigg]

90 minutes if the embargo really ends at 10 am PDT.

That's what Tathanen told me! (actually 76 minutes now)

 

[EatChildren]

The Metroid series has always had great controls (DS abomination aside) so this may represent a step backwards.

Unless the precision shooting is integral to the level design and combat mechanics.

Same for RE4. You cant move when you shoot not because of any limitation or poor controls, but because the game is designed that way. You're supposed to be vulnerable when you're aiming and attacking. The levels, encounters, enemy types and tactics are designed around this. If you could move and attack in RE4 with everything else the same, it would not be the same game, and would probably feel unbalanced and unrefined.

Having to stop and aim in Other M has nothing to do with the choice itself but instead the implantation into the game entire. Just like everything else.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Samus usually does take orders. Super Metroid is the only exception I can think of. I guess Metroid Prime 2 was more happenstance than orders.

I feel like they've explained a few times that even though she's a bounty hunter, she is pretty much the federation's bounty hunter. And mercenaries/bounty hunters often do take orders from someone, otherwise you run in to cases where a lower-level authority is sending non-army units to their death or where a mercenary endangers the lives of others because he or she is not playing ball.

 

[heringer]

I don't think Samus was outwardly denied the use of her equipment she both already had and was able to use through the orders she received in Fusion. The way they tied into the "authorisation" of power ups in Fusion tied in directly with the fact she had a new suit, and that worked as a nice twist to how it was usually done.

Following orders is following orders. Not all the orders she took were directly related to upgrades, but she still followed them until a certain point in the game. And fact is, she also took orders in other games.

Also worth noticing that Fusion happens after Other M. A lot of things might happen to make her even more averse to following orders. Sorry, but there's absolutely no contradiction here.

 

[EatChildren]

Samus usually does take orders. Super Metroid is the only exception I can think of. I guess Metroid Prime 2 was more happenstance than orders.

I feel like they've explained a few times that even though she's a bounty hunter, she is pretty much the federation's bounty hunter. And mercenaries/bounty hunters often do take orders from someone, otherwise you run in to cases where a lower-level authority is sending non-army units to their death or where a mercenary endangers the lives of others because he or she is not playing ball.

Yeah. Metroid / Zero Mission, Metroid II, and Fusion all have Samus embarking on very specific Federation ordered missions.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Wasn't she sent to investigate something in Super also?

How'd she end up on the ship with Ridley, anyway?

 

[heringer]

Yeah, and she is a bounty hunter after all. Not pissing off the people responsible for a lot of your contracts is usually a good idea.

Granted, she did that a few times, but it's not far fetched to think that she tries to play by the rules whenever possible.

 

[XenoRaven]

Wasn't she sent to investigate something in Super also?

How'd she end up on the ship with Ridley, anyway?

Distress signal from the Frigate, just after she had delivered the baby Metroid.

 

[Snaku]

Yeah. Metroid / Zero Mission, Metroid II, and Fusion all have Samus embarking on very specific Federation ordered missions.

Buh-but she's a super confident bad ass loner, who's deaf-mute character I'm intimately familiar with after 24 years of companionship!

 

[farnham]

1 hour until review embargo lifts

preparing for bailout

 

[Diablohead]

Not being able to use a skill until authorised sounds a bit silly, ruins a metroid for me just hearing that.

I'm sure sometime down the road my cousin will own it and then I can finally try it out.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Not being able to use a skill until authorised sounds a bit silly, ruins a metroid for me just hearing that.

I'm sure sometime down the road my cousin will own it and then I can finally try it out.

getting the same skill by falling into a room for no explicable reason is totally not exactly the same thing as walking into a room and downloading a power from a computer >_>

 

[XenoRaven]

Alright everyone, here's an idea. Think of it like this. You traverse through the world and reach "authorization rooms" where Adam lets you use an ability. That way you can see it as an accomplishment for getting to a certain point in the game. If that doesn't work for you, close your eyes and picture a power bomb in the room, walk forward, hum the item acquisition song, and PRESTO. Problem solved.

 

[Diffense]

The difference between showing a skill in your inventory while preventing you from using it and not having it show at all is entirely psychological.
But yeah...game ruined...lol

 

[XenoRaven]

Hey guys, did you know that Resident Evil 4 isn't a real Resident Evil game? It's not about traversing through an enclosed area and shooting zombies with a fixed camera angle view. It's about shooting things that are smarter and more agile than zombies with an over the shoulder view! I mean what the fuck Capcom. Way to ruin a storied franchise.

 

[robor]

God some people are retarded.