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[heringer]

I want my copy. My hands are shacking.

 

[GamerSoul]

Actually, this brings up an interesting point.
If the suit is now Federation technology, that is running off the X, then it would no longer be Chozo technology. So she couldn't upgrade it with Chozo relics.
Hmmm.

I was actaully thinking that in the next game the Federation would be heavily involved in the plot becuase of that fact.

She'll find another Chozo suit that she can wear on top of the one bonded to her skin.

Genius.

They did have the best tech ever.

 

[AceBandage]

Slightly off the current topic, but Play.com has this as down as shipping in 24 hours and in stock, which by their standards is not classed as 'coming soon' or to be released. It's also in the top ten best sellers for Wii.

Could it be going out a little early?

It should already be in stores, they'll likely ship it tomorrow and arrive on Tuesday.

 

[Tathanen]

...At that point in the series chronology, are there even any Chozo relics left to collect? I'm already tired of the myriad of secret Chozo settlements that, while working under separate histories and sometimes very different life philosophies, all somehow happen to also stockpile technological gear and weaponry meant to function with one and only one suit (as far as we know) in the galaxy. Zebes and SR388 I could tolerate, but aren't there another like three Chozo planets that've popped up since then?

I am pretty sure that while Samus' suit is fit to her human shape, it's actually just one of a billion suits that the Chozo all used to wear back when they were a more war-mongering race. The upgrades should work with all of them. The neat thing about the suit is how it's so modular, and can absorb new technologies and incorporate them into its structure without them even necessarily being made directly for it. (I seem to recall something to that effect being mentioned in some of the Prime logs.)

Well, most upgrades. Samus is wearing a "Legendary" suit, post-Zero-Mission. But the suit up until then, fairly run-of-the-mill in that society.

And only two planets since then! Tallon IV and Elysia. Clearly that makes all the difference.

 

[Boney]

Also, Fox himself,

since you seem to be dying a lot and hating it, are you using the sense move and the overblasts?

 

[etiolate]

I'm sure you understand Metroid and Samus better than Sakamoto.

Seriously, the sense of entitlement some people have on this forum is outstanding.

I think it is pretty apparent that I do.

But let's go into what you brought up! That is the issue of authorial intent.

There is a sentiment that if "Sakamoto said so" then it is right. Well in the discussion of authorial intent that sort of idea faces the question of, "is there evidence of that in the text?" For many, there obviously isn't much evidence of what we see in Other M in the previous games. Also, Sakamoto never worked alone. Hell, one of the other 'fathers' is dead and cannot speak for himself. If you compare the Gunpei Metroids to Sakamoto's Metroid's without gunpei there is a distinct difference in structure and feel.

What Samus is is a culmination of multiple games, multiple workers having input on who Samus is via level design, combat and sound. She is also the culmination of thousands of people playing as her and making choices for her. These all shape who Samus is, not just Sakamoto.

We cannot go to each individual and find out who Samus was to them in order to assemble Samus, but as a designer you must take these may factors into mind. It seems Sakamoto did not. The Ridley sequence probably shows this the most. There have been people trying to retroactively explain it as PTSD, but that is a reach, and a bigger reach when is has never triggered before. If you really want to go that route, you'd have these flashbacks triggering far more often and you'd have a motive for Samus to avoid Ridley when she has in fact repeatedly took on missions where she might expect him. To say she was surprised to see him because she had killed him ignores the fact that she has seen him come back from the dead and possibly read logs of how. By now, she is aware of the possibility of Ridley coming back over and over.

So the text(being games) disagrees with the Samus present in Other M. If you think this is new, then maybe look into how fans separate what is canon in Dune or Star Wars according to what they feel fits the standards the original works established.

A warning to devs: A silent character is not a blank slate.

 

[RagnarokX]

Technically, she couldn't since the suit is now keeping her alive.

Sakamoto said that when Samus absorbed the SA-X she returned to her original genetic condition, which I take to mean that she can remove the suit as well. The suit is a fusion of chozo and fed tech. Plus Samus is a fusion of human, chozo, and metroid DNA. Lots of fusions is that game.

"In Metroid Fusion, it seems to have established that "Samus can't use the Ice Beam because she has inherited the nature of the Metroids", but why at the very end is she unconcerned when she regains the Ice Beam?"

Yoshio Sakamoto: "When she absorbed the core of the SA-X (the perfect condition of Samus), she basically reconstituted her genetic condition. She didn't recover the physical damage of her amputated suit, but she did recover her genetic condition."

Etiolate:

Spoiler

All of those previous missions were also missions dealing specifically with space pirates. This is a response to an emergency distress beacon. Plus, we don't know what Samus thought in previous games.

 

[Boney]

Man being spoiled about that Ridley part is such a bummer

 

[AniHawk]

I think it is pretty apparent that I do.

But let's go into what you brought up! That is the issue of authorial intent.

Spoiler

There is a sentiment that if "Sakamoto said so" then it is right. Well in the discussion of authorial intent that sort of idea faces the question of, "is there evidence of that in the text?" For many, there obviously isn't much evidence of what we see in Other M in the previous games. Also, Sakamoto never worked alone. Hell, one of the other 'fathers' is dead and cannot speak for himself. If you compare the Gunpei Metroids to Sakamoto's Metroid's without gunpei there is a distinct difference in structure and feel.

What Samus is is a culmination of multiple games, multiple workers having input on who Samus is via level design, combat and sound. She is also the culmination of thousands of people playing as her and making choices for her. These all shape who Samus is, not just Sakamoto.

We cannot go to each individual and find out who Samus was to them in order to assemble Samus, but as a designer you must take these may factors into mind. It seems Sakamoto did not. The Ridley sequence probably shows this the most. There have been people trying to retroactively explain it as PTSD, but that is a reach, and a bigger reach when is has never triggered before. If you really want to go that route, you'd have these flashbacks triggering far more often and you'd have a motive for Samus to avoid Ridley when she has in fact repeatedly took on missions where she might expect him. To say she was surprised to see him because she had killed him ignores the fact that she has seen him come back from the dead and possibly read logs of how. By now, she is aware of the possibility of Ridley coming back over and over.

So the text(being games) disagrees with the Samus present in Other M. If you think this is new, then maybe look into how fans separate what is canon in Dune or Star Wars according to what they feel fits the standards the original works established.

A warning to devs: A silent character is not a blank slate.

I'm going to stand next to my "shoulda blatantly ripped off Aliens" idea. And

Spoiler

some Newt/Rebecca character gets used as bait or maybe for more practical means (like how in Aliens they started coccooning her) and Samus decides she has to rescue her. Then you have a reason for Samus to have some PTSD flashbacks since her own mother died against Ridley to save her.

I mean, it's not an ideal situation, but it's a "if you have to inject cutscenes and a backstory into Metroid" thing.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

While that is true and while there /is/ some previous specific character development from the Prime series, much of the fan backlash comes from people who never read the manga and did not know about it. Only played the games. One fan forum I have now literally been driven away from reading due to the outrage over this one game, didn't know about the manga. Their hatred is indeed based off their own pre-existing theories about what Samus is about.

Also, there's a funny point about bringing up the manga. I did go read the manga a few months ago, thought it was pretty decent. But the manga presents Samus Aran as being an emotional woman, with childhood trauma that logically could cause an adult to behave as Samus does in some of the Other M cut scenes.

To me, it seems that many fan freakouts so far are due to people /not/ having had read the comics, and truly being angry that their private versions of Samus are being violated. I'd have to think they'd really despise some of the comic sequences, given how conflicted and emotional Samus is there.

Well, but the manga shows too that samus is a strong independent woman, yeah she is haunted by her past, yeah she is an emotianl being, but true is she shows strenght and determination,if I remember right (I too read it some months ago) one of the Chozo's mentions that Samus likes to disobey orders and that she's a lone wolf, which after watching Samus blindly obey Adam orders was kind of funny.

I don't get the mental breakdown of some people, but after watching some of the cutscenes,I have to say I was somewhat a bit concerned, Samus looks to submisive and dependant, at least that's the impression I got...

Probably I'll took sometime until I can play the game,I don't have a Wii, but I was fairly interested in this game since it was announced, so I'll wait until then make judgement....

PD:I have to applaud like others the fact that nintendo tries to add a proper character development for one of their most legendaries characters. It's a somewhat risky step 8as it has proven) but worth whatever the final result ends...

 

[jman2050]

A warning to devs: A silent character is not a blank slate.

But they are.

 

[mugurumakensei]

I think it is pretty apparent that I do.

But let's go into what you brought up! That is the issue of authorial intent.

Spoiler

There is a sentiment that if "Sakamoto said so" then it is right. Well in the discussion of authorial intent that sort of idea faces the question of, "is there evidence of that in the text?" For many, there obviously isn't much evidence of what we see in Other M in the previous games. Also, Sakamoto never worked alone. Hell, one of the other 'fathers' is dead and cannot speak for himself. If you compare the Gunpei Metroids to Sakamoto's Metroid's without gunpei there is a distinct difference in structure and feel.

What Samus is is a culmination of multiple games, multiple workers having input on who Samus is via level design, combat and sound. She is also the culmination of thousands of people playing as her and making choices for her. These all shape who Samus is, not just Sakamoto.

We cannot go to each individual and find out who Samus was to them in order to assemble Samus, but as a designer you must take these may factors into mind. It seems Sakamoto did not. The Ridley sequence probably shows this the most. There have been people trying to retroactively explain it as PTSD, but that is a reach, and a bigger reach when is has never triggered before. If you really want to go that route, you'd have these flashbacks triggering far more often and you'd have a motive for Samus to avoid Ridley when she has in fact repeatedly took on missions where she might expect him. To say she was surprised to see him because she had killed him ignores the fact that she has seen him come back from the dead and possibly read logs of how. By now, she is aware of the possibility of Ridley coming back over and over.

So the text(being games) disagrees with the Samus present in Other M. If you think this is new, then maybe look into how fans separate what is canon in Dune or Star Wars according to what they feel fits the standards the original works established.

A warning to devs: A silent character is not a blank slate.

Actually, Samus isn't a blank slate. The manga has existed for a while, and this game is consistent with that model for Samus. Moreover, it should be noted that Yokoi was the producer not the director for the original Metroid. Sakamato has been directing the vision for Metroid since the beginning. It is essentially his baby. This has always been his vision from the original metroid.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I am pretty sure that while Samus' suit is fit to her human shape, it's actually just one of a billion suits that the Chozo all used to wear back when they were a more war-mongering race. The upgrades should work with all of them. The neat thing about the suit is how it's so modular, and can absorb new technologies and incorporate them into its structure without them even necessarily being made directly for it. (I seem to recall something to that effect being mentioned in some of the Prime logs.)

Well, most upgrades. Samus is wearing a "Legendary" suit, post-Zero-Mission. But the suit up until then, fairly run-of-the-mill in that society.

And only two planets since then! Tallon IV and Elysia. Clearly that makes all the difference.

Well, at this point they seem to fully be going with the concept that the Chozo power armor is "virtual matter" that Samus doesn't put on in pieces but manifests from the Zero Suit which has circuitry embedded in it. In fact, Other M's visual stylization retcons the effect - instead of fading into existence in a flash of light, the suit builds itself from "molecules" that wiggle into place. So I suppose that pretty much justifies any and all equipment upgrades: all the suit computer has to do is redesign the suit in real time to accept the new gear.

Also, I find the Siliconera overview interesting because it starts out sounding rather negative about how the game is an experiment that doesn't seem to work, then becomes more positive as the author got used to playing it and the game began to click. Perhaps more of an honest overview of what it's like to play the game and get used to how different it is, instead of either saying "it's awesome, everything is perfect" or "This sucks! it's different! I hated it the moment I started playing, and never gave it the chance to get better!"

 

[Doorman]

Remember that little offhand comment I made a few posts back about people giving the minimalist approach of the early Metroid games too much credit?

A whole bunch of stuff

Yeah. This is basically what I was referring to.

 

[etiolate]

Remember that little offhand comment I made a few posts back about people giving the minimalist approach of the early Metroid games too much credit?


Yeah. This is basically what I was referring to.

smh

 

[Osuwari]

heh i think the manga should have been included with Zero Mission when it came out. an additional booklet would have been easy to fit in the GBA boxes.
since i knew about it, it didn't feel too odd when watching the cutscenes what what went on but, imo, the monologues were overdone and some cutscenes don't flow well (especially at the end).

i'm ok with them adding more story and stuff since all that can be skipped when replaying the game but what i really wanted that they didn't do was have sequence breaks. hell, i'd take ZM's pre-made SBs over no SBs at all. at least the game is fast-paced.

 

[etiolate]

Actually, Samus isn't a blank slate. The manga has existed for a while, and this game is consistent with that model for Samus. Moreover, it should be noted that Yokoi was the producer not the director for the original Metroid. Sakamato has been directing the vision for Metroid since the beginning. It is essentially his baby. This has always been his vision from the original metroid.

You're arguing a collective canon, but the question still comes to whether or not these collective stories fit with the whole or come into conflict with the bulk of texts. (Again, texts being games + multimedia in a collective digital canon)

 

[sfried]

Ishaan, writer for Siliconera, has quite a lengthy writeup on the game as he's been playing it. I'm not sure how spoileriffic it is, but there don't seem to be much warning about spoilers...so yeah!

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/08/29/metroid-other-m-playtest/

So Other M is Sakimoto's Killer 7?

 

[mugurumakensei]

You're arguing a collective canon, but the question still comes to whether or not these collective stories fit with the whole or come into conflict with the bulk of texts. (Again, texts being games + multimedia in a collective digital canon)

Excluding the prime series, the canon has been pretty consistent.

Also (not directed towards you, people saying it's surprising that Samus would take orders from Adam should really play Metroid Fusion again. She follows orders from an AI because it has his name. She even reminisces about Adam at that point.

 

[Osuwari]

the reason i think Samus behaves like this in this game is because she's the kind of person that does everything on their own alone but if they have their father/mother near, they become "weaker" and instead try to follow them. Adam is like a father for Samus as she says in the game after all so it's no wonder her mind is all shuffled by finding the guy there.

but

Spoiler

it still doesn't explain why she freaks out by seeing Ridley up close now and not in all the previous games. if this game came before ZM, everything would be fine but at this point it is a plot hole.

 

[Socreges]

I have played Metroid since Metroid 1 on the NES, adore the series to bits, and totally know how you feel. It is possible to be a dedicated fan of a series, even "worship" it without being a lunatic. The only spoiler I gave myself for this game is looking at one now-infamous cut scene that is supposed to show Samus' character 'destroyed' and shook my head in disbelief at what the insane hardcore fans are reading into the game. This one game is generating entire BLOCKS of salt for the Metroid nazis (I have seen forum posts elsewhere I will not link to out of pure human decency, I have never seen Nintendo fans go as utterly batshit as I am now.)

Metroid is the perfect example of a series that fans largely constructed in their own minds, because it has been so minimalist. In a way, I hope Other M sells at least as well as Metroid Prime 1, even a little better, if only to drive what may be a much-needed wedge into the fanbase. Sometimes it is good when a series entry comes along that drives the crazies away - their incestuous attitudes about a series can smother it to death.

Well, first off, who are these people? You're speaking as if this is all relevant to GAF, yet the examples that you'd be able to produce are likely from other forums (as you mentioned in parentheses). You're poisoning the well and dichotomizing what can be a reasonable conversation.

Anyway, I agree in part with the people that you're criticizing. It confuses me that so many self-identified Metroid fans don't see value in that minimalism. e.g.,

Remember that little offhand comment I made a few posts back about people giving the minimalist approach of the early Metroid games too much credit?

I guess there are two completely different philosophies here.

If Sakamoto's vision was more akin to Other M, versus the approaches of Metroid and Super Metroid, then I'd have to say that he fluked out at first and the restraints imposed by technology gave us some wonderful gifts. Personally I cannot agree with all of you that are saying the inclusion of story and various other characters has necessarily been a step forward by virtue of such features being present, regardless of quality. Video game designers are almost always poor at telling stories, writing dialogue, and developing characters. To me it's simply intrusive and takes away from the series' strengths. I also subscribe to the 'tell by showing' method, utilized most by the Prime trilogy.

 

[Unicorn]

But they are.

You are wrong. Entire stories can be told without a single person uttering a word.

 

[Doorman]

You're arguing a collective canon, but the question still comes to whether or not these collective stories fit with the whole or come into conflict with the bulk of texts. (Again, texts being games + multimedia in a collective digital canon)

The point I have the most issue with is that in cases like this, you're saying "the bulk of texts" as though you're referring to some large, rich, well-understood pile of evidence that the older games in the series are somehow providing. Like it or not, the manga and the more recently-released games (particularly Fusion and Other M in the "official" timeline, and the Primes to a slightly lesser extent) have provided much more direct information about Samus' character and personality than whatever you or the gaming public have theorized about during the games where she's silent.

Silent protagonists can open a character to a wide array of interpretations by the people who experience the game, but only for so long as that character remains silent. Who's to say that Samus wasn't terrified shitless when she encountered Ridley in Super Metroid? Under the safe assumption that Samus doesn't die in Other M's storyline, she must at least pull herself together enough to defeat Ridley again or at least take SOME sort of action when she encounters him. It's a wonderful statement to say that a character is made up of the collective experience of the people that follow them, but...that's not practical. Why does Sakamoto have to take the rest of the world's opinion into account in determining what sort of person Samus is, when he's the person with directorial authority over it? Sorry, but it's his character, more than yours or mine or anyone else's.

 

[jman2050]

You are wrong. Entire stories can be told without a single person uttering a word.

I imagined that he wasn't using the word "silent" literally, but I could be wrong.

 

[Agent Unknown]

This isn't a exactly a new thing. Although it is being regarded as a significant discussion point in every review, "Nintendo does a story". Sakamoto has beeng doing story games forever. Metroid Fusion, Card Hero, Detective Club, Miho Nakayama High School, Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru. Metroid:Zero Mission, TeleroBoxer, and X are all scenario driven as well.

Obviously the problem is that most of those games happen to be obscure and Japan only. Well besides Metroid.

In the 80s. You make a Mario game. Easy to bring over. You make a Detective Club. Not so easy to bring over. And Nintendo has closely followed that policy for its succeeding history. A couple of few exceptions of course. (Fire Emblem)

True and very good examples but portable games and Japan-only series have usually gotten a free-to-experiment pass from Nintendo (it would seem). But this is different IMHO and does warrant the press attention because when has one of the "big three" on one of their home consoles ever gotten such full on cinematic treatment (aside from the TP "baby steps" Metroid Killer mentioned and the Galaxy series orchestral scores)? I see what you're saying though, it's not new for him. Hopefully the game is as good as folks like Kohler and othersteve say and Sakamoto will get the opportunity to continue doing more home cosole games.

 

[etiolate]

Excluding the prime series, the canon has been pretty consistent.

Also (not directed towards you, people saying it's surprising that Samus would take orders from Adam should really play Metroid Fusion again. She follows orders from an AI because it has his name. She even reminisces about Adam at that point.

The Prime series is actually more in line with Metroid than Fusion or Other M. Though Prime 2 and 3 did start to bring in the federation troops.

Non-linearity is part of the story telling structure since videogames are mostly spatial and environmental story telling.

 

[Red]

If Sakamoto's vision was more akin to Other M, versus the approaches of Metroid and Super Metroid, then I'd have to say that he fluked out at first and the restraints imposed by technology gave us some wonderful gifts. Personally I cannot agree with all of you that are saying the inclusion of story and various other characters has necessarily been a step forward by virtue of such features being present, regardless of quality. Video game designers are almost always poor at telling stories, writing dialogue, and developing characters. To me it's simply intrusive and takes away from the series' strengths. I also subscribe to the 'tell by showing' method, utilized most by the Prime trilogy.

It's too bad this game subscribes to the "tell by showing while telling method," causing Samus to frequently narrate exactly what she's doing or feeling at any given moment.

The Prime series is actually more in line with Metroid than Fusion or Other M. Though Prime 2 and 3 did start to bring in the federation troops.

I take it you forget about the dead trooper before Kraid in SM?

 

[scitek]

Beat it earlier. Anyone wants specific impressions, PM me. I don't wanna spoil anything for anyone.

 

[Rocket Punch]

I love you Samus but I don't want to get to know you. Is that so hard to understand? My misgivings about a backstory have been there from the beginning and unfortunately they appear all but correct. I will still play the game but my expectations have been curved considerably. It seems now apparent that Metroid Prime will still stand as the best Metroid game.

All this mishandling of Samus' character makes me wonder how a western developed would have tackled the task. Retro Studios, it seems comes out as the winner after all this.

 

[Prime Blue]

Excluding the prime series, the canon has been pretty consistent.

Are the Prime games disregarded now? I've read that several times now.

 

[Boney]

Beat it earlier. Anyone wants specific impressions, PM me. I don't wanna spoil anything for anyone.

Did you rike it?

Also, etiolate.. where and how did you end up studying your videogame thingy thing?

 

[Socreges]

I love you Samus but I don't want to get to know you. Is that so hard to understand? My misgivings about a backstory have been there from the beginning and unfortunately they appear all but correct. I will still play the game but my expectations have been curved considerably.

This is pretty much where I stand.

My anticipation/trepidation levels have been fluctuating wildly over the past few months. I see a list of positives and a note like "Great variety of environments and enemies" and get excited. Then I realize the reviewer probably means aesthetically and not design-wise, once more bringing my expectations back down. :lol

 

[Kard8p3]

I love you Samus but I don't want to get to know you. Is that so hard to understand? My misgivings about a backstory have been there from the beginning and unfortunately they appear all but correct. I will still play the game but my expectations have been curved considerably. It seems now apparent that Metroid Prime will still stand as the best Metroid game.

All this mishandling of Samus' character makes me wonder how a western developed would have tackled the task. Retro Studios, it seems comes out as the winner after all this.

I actually put Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion over Prime. The complaints about samus' character in this game is all opinion. Some people like it some don't but I would hardly call it mishandling her character as it seems to be in line with the manga and Fusion.

 

[Boney]

I actually put Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion over Prime. The complaints about samus' character in this game is all opinion. Some people like it some don't but I would hardly call it mishandling her character as it seems to be in line with the manga and Fusion.

Don't forget Zero Mision!

Prime is a good number 4 though.

 

[etiolate]

The point I have the most issue with is that in cases like this, you're saying "the bulk of texts" as though you're referring to some large, rich, well-understood pile of evidence that the older games in the series are somehow providing.

I've spent time on the narrative function of the games, I spend time on narrative theory as it is relevant to my profession, and I spend time studying game theory and design as it regards to my interests. I put that out there to admit that maybe not everyone immediately understands the games as texts, but that I have spent time to do so using theory old, new and developing.

That is to say, this isn't just stuff I am pulling out of my ass.

Like it or not, the manga and the more recently-released games (particularly Fusion and Other M in the "official" timeline, and the Primes to a slightly lesser extent) have provided much more direct information about Samus' character and personality than whatever you or the gaming public have theorized about during the games where she's silent.

More direct, but maybe not stronger than what has existed previously.

Silent protagonists can open a character to a wide array of interpretations by the people who experience the game, but only for so long as that character remains silent.

And that has to be accounted for. In a film, you may identify with the hero and picture yourself in his place, but you are always lead around. It is in games where the leading is loosened and where you would say "I wouldn't do what they did" becomes "I did not do what they did." In games, the character is the character and audience at once.

Who's to say that Samus wasn't terrified shitless when she encountered Ridley in Super Metroid?

Going with the element of choice just presented, then there would have to be a choice to run from Ridley. Instead, Samus encounters her twice and follows Ridley then wades through a non-linear maze in order to find Ridley again. By game design and a lack of choice to anything but pursue, we understand that Samus is after Ridley, which makes her less scared to the audience and more vengeful. She is more vengeful because the player has taken the route of destroying Ridley and her past with no alternative but dying left.

Under the safe assumption that Samus doesn't die in Other M's storyline, she must at least pull herself together enough to defeat Ridley again or at least take SOME sort of action when she encounters him. It's a wonderful statement to say that a character is made up of the collective experience of the people that follow them, but...that's not practical.

But its reality.

Why does Sakamoto have to take the rest of the world's opinion into account in determining what sort of person Samus is, when he's the person with directorial authority over it? Sorry, but it's his character, more than yours or mine or anyone else's.

Because he does not have complete authority and that is what I originally pointed out.

 

[jjasper]

Excluding the prime series, the canon has been pretty consistent.

Hell even with the prime series it is pretty consistent. It is all suppose to take place between 1 and 2 and there really isn't anything in there that is out of place going against the main storyline.

 

[Kard8p3]

Don't forget Zero Mision!

Prime is a good number 4 though.

Zero Mission is amazing but I'm not sure if I'd put it over prime. It's without question better than echoes and corruption though.

 

[Tathanen]

but

Spoiler

it still doesn't explain why she freaks out by seeing Ridley up close now and not in all the previous games. if this game came before ZM, everything would be fine but at this point it is a plot hole.

Okay if we're going to get pedantic and idiotic about all this, let's do it.

Spoiler

In Zero Mission, she knew Ridley was in Zebes. She had already overcome her fears of him in the Manga, she went to Zebes expecting to fight him. There's no surprise when she eventually does.

In Metroid Prime, there were logs in the ships that indicated he had been reconstituted. Even after defeating him in Zero Mission, there wasn't necessarily an indication that he was "dead forever." After all, he had made clear to her in the Manga that he was able to survive horrible conditions by consuming the flesh of other living things.

In Corruption, there's still no indication that he's dead forever, he just kind of jumped off a cliff in Prime. Seeing him again, in the middle of the Space Pirate planet of all places, isn't that unreasonable.

In Super Metroid, she's in an environment that's been completely reconstructed from the last time she was there. She knows Mother Brain is in there somewhere, she knows Ridley is in there from when she ran into him on the space station. That particular encounter actually, the nature of it, kind of seems like she'd be pretty freaked out by it if we had any kind of view into her mind at that moment.

And really, this is the main point. Every time we've played Samus in these situations the game was designed in such a way that we were not privy to her thoughts in any capacity whatsoever. So for all we know she was exactly as freaked out every single time. PTSD is a hell of a thing. I don't care how much she managed to conquer her fears, look at how she reacts when he shows up in the Manga. She has a certifiable nervous breakdown and begs for death. You don't ever get over something like that entirely.

But anyway, here we are in Other M. Not only did she kill Ridley in Super Metroid, she blew up the fucking planet a couple hours later. As far as she's concerned, he is D-E-A-D dead. Then she's on this space station with no indication that anything like Ridley would be around, and not only that but he comes from the least expected place. Expecting just some further-evolved beastie, "oh la de da let's go beat up this thing," but nope it's fucking RIDLEY OUT OF NOWHERE. Out of nowhere and back from the categorical dead. It's been Ridley all along that you were interacting with in this space station. Maybe it's a little reasonable for her to freak out for the 30 seconds she freaks out!

 

[Shin Johnpv]

It says she needs to suit to even function and live now, so I'd assume taking it off is a no-no.

Depending on the ending you get they show it, in what seems after the events of Fusion with out the suit on. I would imagine it's similar to her Chozo suit.

Actually, this brings up an interesting point.
If the suit is now Federation technology, that is running off the X, then it would no longer be Chozo technology. So she couldn't upgrade it with Chozo relics.
Hmmm.

She did absorb the Core-X that had infested her Chozo power suit parts, and she gets back her Ice Beam. Which when she was just metroid DNA fusion suit based was impossible. So I would imagine, she got back her ability to add on Chozo upgrades.

 

[Snaku]

Zero Mission is amazing but I'm not sure if I'd put it over prime. It's without question better than echoes and corruption though.

I would put it over Prime, but only just by a hair. They're both the best efforts in their particular takes on Metroid.

 

[Boney]

Zero Mission is amazing but I'm not sure if I'd put it over prime. It's without question better than echoes and corruption though.

We are now enemies.

 

[DragonGirl]

I actually put Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion over Prime. The complaints about samus' character in this game is all opinion. Some people like it some don't but I would hardly call it mishandling her character as it seems to be in line with the manga and Fusion.

I would argue that Fusion and the Manga already mishandled her. The original game was such a mold breaker introducing a female character in a mold typically reserved for men, influenced by a movie series that very much did the same with great humanity. Only to find that here at this point when the persona of Samus is really looked at, of all the choices that could have been made, it throws back to such old, predictable, traditional characterization. I'm disappointed. And yes, of course it's all opinion, but opinions have a basis. Mine was based on the hope of seeing that old mold stay broken, not glued back together with Samus hammered into it.

 

[Kard8p3]

Because he does not have complete authority and that is what I originally pointed out.

I'm pretty sure he does have final say on what goes on the the metroid universe. Even Retro had to run thing by him to see if they were acceptable in metroid. Some things got cut because of this.

We are now enemies.

Sorry but Prime was my second Metroid game and made a pretty big impact. Still though prime is only barely above zero mission.

 

[Hiltz]

I have one question.

To those who have played this game already, do the Chozo make any kind of appearance?

 

[Agent Unknown]

We'll probably find out in 2013:/

I was so disappointed when Nintendo announced Retro was working on a.. 2D Donkey Kong:/ Don't know, I'm already tired of these full price, full-fledged 2D games on home consoles, Mario last year and maybe Kirby this year would have been enough.

You are what's wrong with this industry.
You can get more playtime with these 2D console games than with most FPS games.

 

[Kard8p3]

Okay if we're going to get pedantic and idiotic about all this, let's do it.

Spoiler

In Zero Mission, she knew Ridley was in Zebes. She had already overcome her fears of him in the Manga, she went to Zebes expecting to fight him. There's no surprise when she eventually does.

In Metroid Prime, there were logs in the ships that indicated he had been reconstituted. Even after defeating him in Zero Mission, there wasn't necessarily an indication that he was "dead forever." After all, he had made clear to her in the Manga that he was able to survive horrible conditions by consuming the flesh of other living things.

In Corruption, there's still no indication that he's dead forever, he just kind of jumped off a cliff in Prime. Seeing him again, in the middle of the Space Pirate planet of all places, isn't that unreasonable.

In Super Metroid, she's in an environment that's been completely reconstructed from the last time she was there. She knows Mother Brain is in there somewhere, she knows Ridley is in there from when she ran into him on the space station. That particular encounter actually, the nature of it, kind of seems like she'd be pretty freaked out by it if we had any kind of view into her mind at that moment.

And really, this is the main point. Every time we've played Samus in these situations the game was designed in such a way that we were not privy to her thoughts in any capacity whatsoever. So for all we know she was exactly as freaked out every single time. PTSD is a hell of a thing. I don't care how much she managed to conquer her fears, look at how she reacts when he shows up in the Manga. She has a certifiable nervous breakdown and begs for death. You don't ever get over something like that entirely.

But anyway, here we are in Other M. Not only did she kill Ridley in Super Metroid, she blew up the fucking planet a couple hours later. As far as she's concerned, he is D-E-A-D dead. Then she's on this space station with no indication that anything like Ridley would be around, and not only that but he comes from the least expected place. Expecting just some further-evolved beastie, "oh la de da let's go beat up this thing," but nope it's fucking RIDLEY OUT OF NOWHERE. Out of nowhere and back from the categorical dead. It's been Ridley all along that you were interacting with in this space station. Maybe it's a little reasonable for her to freak out for the 30 seconds she freaks out!

This particular part of the game was spoiled for me and I agree that it makes sense. I was expecting this big horrible thing but then when I found out what it actually was I couldn't believe people were complaining about it.

 

[Doorman]

More direct, but maybe not stronger than what has existed previously.

Perhaps slightly off topic, but I'll take this point to reiterate that I'm not trying to categorically claim that direct storytelling in this sense is stronger or better than a more minimalist approach. The reason I debate things like this (other than just my inherent jerk-love of arguing) is because I like to see Nintendo push out of their comfort zones, and I don't recall a time where they've ever put so much emphasis on forefront characterization and storyline presentation. Even if what's put into the writing is objectionable, I like to acknowledge them for finally trying it, at the least.

And that has to be accounted for. In a film, you may identify with the hero and picture yourself in his place, but you are always lead around. It is in games where the leading is loosened and where you would say "I wouldn't do what they did" becomes "I did not do what they did." In games, the character is the character and audience at once.

[...]

Going with the element of choice just presented, then there would have to be a choice to run from Ridley. Instead, Samus encounters her twice and follows Ridley then wades through a non-linear maze in order to find Ridley again. By game design and a lack of choice to anything but pursue, we understand that Samus is after Ridley, which makes her less scared to the audience and more vengeful. She is more vengeful because the player has taken the route of destroying Ridley and her past with no alternative but dying left.

Alternatively I could just argue that she is scared, but her sense of duty and desire for resolution outweigh it. To that end I could control the game by just tapping the D-pad and have her inch along into Lower Norfair to illustrate her combined trepidation and persistence.

And in general, I am not a big fan of the argument that games necessarily offer a much wider sense of identification or immersion with a character than with movies or other media because, as you say, there are limits on virtually all games with a story that prevent you from manipulating the character exactly as you would act. I can't put myself into Samus' shoes because there is no option to just leave her mission and go get a normal job on a planet somewhere. Not even the so called "do anything" sandbox games offer the amount of breadth of choice needed to successfully perform something like that. Players are motivated to progress through the game until they reach the end, and that already requires concessions on any supposed "blank slate" character. That's always been what annoys me about silent protagonists in games. Even when the details are left up to you, the actions needed to advance the game already dictate at least some of their personality, so I already can't successfully ascribe my own to them.

 

[Agent Unknown]

It's nothing like Fusion except that you're sent to different sections and it's super linear. I absolutely adore Fusion and this just isn't a solid game.

I've shouted at the TV for the sheer stupidity that authorizing weapons is several times. I'm running around in a fucking lava world for an hour before Adam finally says "Oh, you should probably activate your Varia Suit" which not only gives me better protection for the heat but also reduces the damage taken by enemies. Same with the different beam types as well - it just makes no fucking sense not to be able to use them. It's hilariously HORRIBLE.

Yikes, expectations re-managed once again.

And yeah, the idea to have authorization for weapons/items is bad no matter how you cut it. But they still could have made it make a bit more sense, ie: the Varia suit is something Adam should have just had her turn on automatically with maybe a second half to the lava stage which requires an even more powerful suit which has to be retrieved from a lab, ect.

 

[wsippel]

Horrendous dialogue and so so voice acting. Uninspired and generally poor visuals. Controls that leave a lot, and I mean a lot, to be desired. Indicating "hidden items" on the map (what the fuck is wrong with you Team Ninja/Nintendo?). The stupidly contrived means of "unlocking" "new" items. The Pussyfication of Samus Aran.

Let me blow your mind: Quite a few items are completely hidden and not on the map. I guess Team Ninja did such a fine job hiding them that not even many reviewers found a single one of those, so you don't have to feel bad about it.

And by the way, items were indicated on the map in MP3 as well.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I've been playing the Metroid games since the first one hit on the NES and Prime is still my favorite one in the series. That game is just amazing on every level. I just wanted to chim in that as another person whose been a fan since day one, I'm also not about crazy sequence breaking or shine sparking or that stuff. In fact the forced shine sparking in Zero Mission to get items hurt it for me.