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Metroid Other M |OT| You're Not Supposed to Remember Him

B

brandonh83

Banned
when I was little and my family would go to the lake, I'd always go underwater and play the Meridia theme in my head

just some quick trivia.
 
T

Tain

Member
strx said:
Fans of this game are like fans of the prequel trilogy. You can't take them seriously.
Click to expand...

lol.

Sorry, I forgot that moody music is more important than combat mechanics.

Buuut, since day one, I've only really cared about the Team Ninja part. This is a competent Team Ninja action game. And it sucks that it's a Metroid game, since it will go down in the books as "the metroid game that made samus talk too much" rather than "the team ninja action game that somehow overcame the shitty limitations thrown upon it".
 
D

Doogington

Member
Tain said:
lol.

Sorry, I forgot that moody music is more important than combat mechanics.
Click to expand...

I don't recall ever mentioning music, could you point out when I mentioned that?

Combat mechcanics are useless if controls are poor. Not that other m's mechanics are worth note at all.
What are you comparing the mechanics to, anyway? I found nearly every other metroid game to play better than this. You disagree?
 
G

Gravijah

Member
I'M NO BABY...

I'M A MAN

111jbls.jpg
 
A

ASIS

Member
strx said:
Not literally, I know.

Let me try to explain. So much of the design is restrictive. The way you can't walk off ledges the way you switch to first person, the way concentration works, the way you move and jump. Sometimes when you hold up you go straight and sometimes you curve with the map and sometimes you run in a circle. It's inconsistent and I don't like it. Wouldn't have been a problem if they just went with analogue control. It's like you never feel completely in control of Samus. You have to rely on context sensitive actions.
Click to expand...
Uhh.. You do realize he was talking about the engine, not the game's mechanics right?
 
D

Doogington

Member
I suppose I didn't take that into account because there would be no reason for anyone to complain if it was just the engine and not the gameplay mechanics.
 
T

Tain

Member
I don't recall ever mentioning music, could you point out when I mentioned that?

Combat mechcanics are useless if controls are poor. Not that other m's mechanics are worth note at all.
What are you comparing the mechanics to, anyway? I found nearly every other metroid game to play better than this. You disagree?
Click to expand...

Of course I can't! Just trying to be equally bombastic.

Controls could have been easier to adapt to with an extra wiimote button. Can't deny that. It doesn't matter to me at this point, though. I've adapted. It's all good. The missile setup was funky, but even that is coming naturally now. The 8 way movement has been plenty responsive and accurate since the beginning. Never once have I felt that the game demanded something that the controls held me back on.

Prime does not have better combat than this. I can dodge too much too easily in Other M, definitely, but even what Other M offers is more varied and demands more attention than the incredibly slow, very homogeneous combat in Prime. Super Metroid might have more exciting combat, so far, but it's kinda up in the air. Super Metroid never really got difficult enough. I'm not really expecting Other M to, either, but the lack of energy tanks so far gives me hope. There's still the pesky health recharge, though. I wish you could only do that in empty rooms.

It's early, but I place it above Prime, and pretty close to Fusion. I'll see how it goes.
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
evilromero said:
I would actually LOVE to see them tackle the Return of Samus in glorious 3rd person Other M graphics.
Click to expand...

Exactly! That's what I said like 2 - 3 pages back. This engine seems perfect for RoS remake.
 
F

fireside

Member
EmCeeGramr said:
I don't think Gunpei Yokoi had any creative input on Super Metroid at all, and his role on Metroid 1 was more that of a producer.
Click to expand...
Wikipedia says Gunpei helped “design” Super Metroid so I’m guessing he had quite a bit of creative input.
 
M

MidnightScott

Banned
Nemesis556 said:
American versions allegedly have English, French and Spanish.
Click to expand...

Wow French & Spanish voice dub? That is surprising. Guess they can't fit it on a dual layer disk, yet S&P2(although it is a tiny game in comparison) has the option of English & Japanese voices.

Why Nintendo do you pick and choose?
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
fireside said:
Wikipedia says Gunpei helped “design” Super Metroid so I’m guessing he had quite a bit of creative input.
Click to expand...

Yeah Wikipedia is not a reliable source. If you read the Retro mags article about the behind the scenes of Super Metroid and the Metroid series in general, Gunpei really didn't have much input onto the design of the games.
 
L

Lé Blade Runner

Member
Tain said:
Of course I can't! Just trying to be equally bombastic.

Controls could have been easier to adapt to with an extra wiimote button. Can't deny that. It doesn't matter to me at this point, though. I've adapted. It's all good. The missile setup was funky, but even that is coming naturally now. The 8 way movement has been plenty responsive and accurate since the beginning. Never once have I felt that the game demanded something that the controls held me back on.

Prime does not have better combat than this. I can dodge too much too easily in Other M, definitely, but even what Other M offers is more varied and demands more attention than the incredibly slow, very homogeneous combat in Prime. Super Metroid might have more exciting combat, so far, but it's kinda up in the air. Super Metroid never really got difficult enough. I'm not really expecting Other M to, either, but the lack of energy tanks so far gives me hope. There's still the pesky health recharge, though. I wish you could only do that in empty rooms.

It's early, but I place it above Prime, and pretty close to Fusion. I'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

The thing that elevated Prime into masterclass wasn't the combat, though. It was the pain-staking attention to environmental detail, the soundtrack and the general atmosphere of despair and loneliness. As a game of exploration and awe, I still love it to death. The combat can be tedious at times, but I don't mind it.

I haven't played Metroid Fusion or Zero Mission, unfortunately.
 
pulga

pulga

Banned
etiolate said:
I think it is pretty apparent that I do.

But let's go into what you brought up! That is the issue of authorial intent.

There is a sentiment that if "Sakamoto said so" then it is right. Well in the discussion of authorial intent that sort of idea faces the question of, "is there evidence of that in the text?" For many, there obviously isn't much evidence of what we see in Other M in the previous games. Also, Sakamoto never worked alone. Hell, one of the other 'fathers' is dead and cannot speak for himself. If you compare the Gunpei Metroids to Sakamoto's Metroid's without gunpei there is a distinct difference in structure and feel.

What Samus is is a culmination of multiple games, multiple workers having input on who Samus is via level design, combat and sound. She is also the culmination of thousands of people playing as her and making choices for her. These all shape who Samus is, not just Sakamoto.

We cannot go to each individual and find out who Samus was to them in order to assemble Samus, but as a designer you must take these may factors into mind. It seems Sakamoto did not. The Ridley sequence probably shows this the most. There have been people trying to retroactively explain it as PTSD, but that is a reach, and a bigger reach when is has never triggered before. If you really want to go that route, you'd have these flashbacks triggering far more often and you'd have a motive for Samus to avoid Ridley when she has in fact repeatedly took on missions where she might expect him. To say she was surprised to see him because she had killed him ignores the fact that she has seen him come back from the dead and possibly read logs of how. By now, she is aware of the possibility of Ridley coming back over and over.

So the text(being games) disagrees with the Samus present in Other M. If you think this is new, then maybe look into how fans separate what is canon in Dune or Star Wars according to what they feel fits the standards the original works established.

A warning to devs: A silent character is not a blank slate.
Click to expand...


oh god im drowning in the bolded crap.

Good thing there are other sensible members who already called you out on it.
 
F

fireside

Member
Shin Johnpv said:
Yeah Wikipedia is not a reliable source. If you read the Retro mags article about the behind the scenes of Super Metroid and the Metroid series in general, Gunpei really didn't have much input onto the design of the games.
Click to expand...
My entire world is crumbling.
 
A

_Alkaline_

Member
The Metroid series has never had a strong focus on combat, no, but I would also like to point out that this whole 'isolation' thing is perhaps being pushed too hard by the fanbase. It's an element of the series, for sure, but some act as if it's the key focus on the series. It's not. The series has a strong attention to detail and an uncanny ability to create atmosphere, but some seem to push it above everything else.

What defines Metroid is mastering your environment and acquiring new items to explore previously inaccessible areas. It's a system based on environmental puzzles that many games have adopted but none have mastered nearly as well as Metroid. It's what makes the games so enjoyable to play and it's above anything else is terms of what makes a Metroid game.

You could put in crazy combos and finishers, morph ball racing, a ratio of 10:1 of cinematics vs gameplay, nude scenes, and chuck 1000 GF troopers on the screen at one time, and it could still be a Metroid game. Get rid of environmental puzzles and it's a Metroid game no more.

Was joking in that last bit.

Except Morph Ball racing really would be awesome.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'd like to see more historical confirmation of roles in the development of each game in the series. One reason why is the Sakamoto lynch mob mentality is /really/ out of hand on some fan sites right now and a few other forums. People have created a revisionist history narrative that paints Sakamoto as a /thief who has stolen Metroid/ away from Gunpei Yokoi and has no idea what Metroid is about.

There's a huge number of fans and a couple of loud pundits who insist Sakamoto is "the ruiner" and think that Yokoi single-handedly was responsible for every significant part of Metroid, Metroid II, and Super Metroid.
 
G

Gravijah

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
I think what etiolate is saying is that things were better in a pre-post-segregation era.
Click to expand...

oh jesus christ this made me laugh so hard

why do i keep coming back to this topic? i'm going back to playing nier

BTW ANY OF YOU FUCKERS WHO LIKES RPGS BETTER PLAY THIS GAME SOMEDAY
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
Kaijima said:
I'd like to see more historical confirmation of roles in the development of each game in the series. One reason why is the Sakamoto lynch mob mentality is /really/ out of hand on some fan sites right now and a few other forums. People have created a revisionist history narrative that paints Sakamoto as a /thief who has stolen Metroid/ away from Gunpei Yokoi and has no idea what Metroid is about.

There's a huge number of fans and a couple of loud pundits who insist Sakamoto is "the ruiner" and think that Yokoi single-handedly was responsible for every significant part of Metroid, Metroid II, and Super Metroid.
Click to expand...


Tell people to buy a copy of this http://www.imagineshop.co.uk/magazines/retrogamer/retro-gamer-065.html (no idea where you can get it now) but it covers a lot of the design stuff. And its just a great read overall.

Gunpei was just the Producer on these games. I don't know what its like in video games, I can only comment on my experiences working on commercials, and movies. In those cases the Producers are just there to make sure shit gets done on time, and under budget. I've personally never seen a producer actually design/creative decision. Things could totally be different at other places, or in video games, I'm just commenting from my work experience.
 
Nemesis_

Nemesis_

Member
Has anyone completed the game yet, or is able to point me to a run through of the game itself (including the alleged post credits gameplay)?
 
D

donkey show

Member
Nemesis556 said:
Has anyone completed the game yet, or is able to point me to a run through of the game itself (including the alleged post credits gameplay)?
Click to expand...
I have. As for impressions, they're like two pages back. In regards to post game...
You get to fight Phantoon from Super Metroid. =) And you get a chance to 100% your run since it's impossible to do during the "main game."
 
E

etiolate

Banned
pulga said:
oh god im drowning in the bolded crap.

Good thing there are other sensible members who already called you out on it.
Click to expand...

:lol Nobody called me out on it.

Come back when you know what is being talked about.
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
donkey show said:
It isn't so much of a spoiler as it is the clever use of the camera angles and the environment to hide morph ball spots and having you go into FPS mode to scan possible destructible backgrounds. Many times I've gone, "nice... wouldn't have guessed that first time." You'll see this a lot in
Sector 2, the ice zone.
Click to expand...

Socreges said:
Good to hear. Care to give an example? With spoiler tags for other people.
Click to expand...

What Donkey said. But also a lot involving shinespark and speed booster. Not on the level of Zero Mission tho.

Also on the end game enemies...

Those powerbomb creatures can be pretty damn nasty. You gotta lethal strike them ASAP as they're down. And the rolling armadillos? Not too bad but if you wanna take them out in style, it involves them grabbing you. Only after Samus kicks them off, are they're down long enough for Samus to deal a delicious finishing blow

And the post end game. Yup you gotta do it for 100%. And post end game has a neat surprise or two too :D

post endgame spoilers! ! !

Phantoon returns! And it's not a Metroid game if there's not escape sequence. Plus you do it in ZSS form :D

Also yeah with me being defensive and all on Other M. I did complete it. 100% 13 hours. Perfect! :D
 
E

etiolate

Banned
Kaijima said:
I'd like to see more historical confirmation of roles in the development of each game in the series. One reason why is the Sakamoto lynch mob mentality is /really/ out of hand on some fan sites right now and a few other forums. People have created a revisionist history narrative that paints Sakamoto as a /thief who has stolen Metroid/ away from Gunpei Yokoi and has no idea what Metroid is about.

There's a huge number of fans and a couple of loud pundits who insist Sakamoto is "the ruiner" and think that Yokoi single-handedly was responsible for every significant part of Metroid, Metroid II, and Super Metroid.
Click to expand...

Both sides are wrong. There is no one single person responsible for the series or is lord over the series.
 
D

donkey show

Member
kiryogi said:
Phantoon returns! And it's not a Metroid game if there's not escape sequence. Plus you do it in ZSS form :D
Click to expand...
Yup, that entire lead up sequence was awesome. There it truly solidified itself as a Metroid game. :D
 
Nemesis_

Nemesis_

Member
donkey show said:
I have. As for impressions, they're like two pages back. In regards to post game...
You get to fight Phantoon from Super Metroid. =) And you get a chance to 100% your run since it's impossible to do during the "main game."
Click to expand...

Fuck?! REALLY?!

What a strange choice though......why not, say,
Kraid
or something.

Either way, going to go do that now. You've inspired me! (Any idea how to get there, though?)
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
Nemesis556 said:
Fuck?! REALLY?!

What a strange choice though......why not, say,
Kraid
or something.

Either way, going to go do that now. You've inspired me! (Any idea how to get there, though?)
Click to expand...

It's as Samus says when she goes back. You need to make your way to where that valuable item is. And on the way there, you'll run into him. It's all part of the post end game Hint: The path involves using powerbombs and backtracking thru other sectors to get back to the main sector.
 
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