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[etiolate]

Hey do they have those tshirts in any other size other than large?

 

[Soul4ger]

This game makes me wet between my legs. And I'm not a chick.

This is probably one of my 10 most anticipated games for the rest of this year. Just looks... Awesome. If they can get rid of the action-y shit that slowed the end of MP, I'll be blissful this November 16. Yum.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think you guys can stop trashing Shog. He's successfully pwned himself in this thread, and I think/hope he's done with it.

I have pwned myself? Oh my lord.... You guys probably believe that, don't you?

Reading through the responses in this thread, I am truely dumbfounded by the total disregard for logic and reason. So many words wasted on defending such an obvious flaw! I have really underestimated the lengths Nintendo fanboys will go to defend their brand. Scary. Truely.

I wonder if any of you think if the MP/MP2's controls can even be improved? You guys seem to think it's nothing less than flawless. Can I get a roll call on this from all you guys that have 'pwned" me in this thread? Just to satisfy my morbid curiosity, humor me.

 

[Nerevar]

what I don't understand is how people can, on the one hand, bitch about you calling it a FPS and demand that you call it a "first person adventure" that focuses on "adventure and immersion," then on the other hand embrace a control scheme that limits free-form movement and interactrion (you can't even look up or down while running!) - it just boggles my mind. I do think the control scheme was perfect for the platforming, but it absolutely sucks for putting you "into the environment" and, as someone said earlier, was more akin to controlling the Mars Rover than the lithe space ninja that is Samus.

Edit - I'd love to play the game with keyboard and mouse - I'd think it would be a great experience that would maximize it's strenghts in both platforming and immersion.

Just so people don't bitch about fanboy-ness, I've played through the entire game. It was a fun little game that was held back by a lot of gameplay decisions, the least of which was the controls. Enough to make me want to play MP2, but not enough to make me pee my pants in anticipation.

 

[Spike]

Who's being closed-minded? The people who are able to adjust to a new control scheme without raising hell, or the people who refuse to play one of the best games to come out of this generation because they might need to learn some new controls?

Exactly.

 

[Mejilan]

I'm not sure if the second part of your response is still aimed at me or not, but just to clarify, I suggested that you were owning yourself, not that others were owning you.

You have an interesting sense of 'logic' and 'reason' then. I won't presume to tell others how they should be playing their games. But you've got at least a couple of people in this thread who appreciate what Halo, and Half-Life 2, and Metroid Prime all accomplish, separately and distinctly. Buggy Loop did a great job, imho, of summing up the strengths of Metroid Prime's gameplay and control scheme. Respond to him before you respond to me, if you will.

I've played Halo, and Timesplitters, and quite a few other FPS type games in the past, both on consoles and PC. Not nearly as many as Buggy, I'll admit, but regardless. Metroid Prime neither plays nor controls like most other first person orientated shooters. And as such, it has a rather novel control scheme. One that, arguably, works well within the context of its gameplay, if not quite so well when compared to other, simpler, more action orientated first person shooters.

My point? You've got plenty of people here stating how one control scheme isn't necessarily exclusive to another, and it obviously does depend on the gameplay at hand. On the whole, people in this thread (at least for the last page or two) have been rather easygoing to your close-minded, dumb-fuck posts.

 

[shuri]

FPS is my favorite genre of videogames. I dont even know where to start with Metroid's control scheme. It actually turned me off from the game. I really dont understand why some people even try to justify it by saying its perfect for the style of game. I'm sorry, but thats almost as retarded than the comment from the RE guy who said that it adding side straffing would destroy RE's gameplay

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm not sure if the second part of your response is still aimed at me or not, but just to clarify, I suggested that you were owning yourself, not that others were owning you.

You seriously think that or is that some rhetorical attampt at pwnage? Either way, I am amazed.

You have an interesting sense of 'logic' and 'reason' then. I won't presume to tell others how they should be playing their games. But you've got at least a couple of people in this thread who appreciate what Halo, and Half-Life 2, and Metroid Prime all accomplish, separately and distinctly. Buggy Loop did a great job, imho, of summing up the strengths of Metroid Prime's gameplay and control scheme. Respond to him before you respond to me, if you will.

He's whipped up a doozy (I saw the length of the reply and got light headed), and I'll get to him eventually.

But I think it's worth mentioning that my complaint of MP is pretty much the control scheme and nothing else (couldn't bare to play far enough to comment on other espects!). So if you guys can think clearly enough to keep thing on focus, I hate the game's control scheme, and not the game, nor it's gameplay, etc.. I know with all your blind rage at an infidel it's hard to focus, but try.

I've played Halo, and Timesplitters, and quite a few other FPS type games in the past, both on consoles and PC. Not nearly as many as Buggy, I'll admit, but regardless. Metroid Prime neither plays nor controls like most other first person orientated shooters. And as such, it has a rather novel control scheme. One that, arguably, works well within the context of its gameplay, if not quite so well when compared to other, simpler, more action orientated first person shooters.

So can I get you on record as to the fact that you think the controls can't be improved upon in the game? Yes or no.

My point? You've got plenty of people here stating how one control scheme isn't necessarily exclusive to another, and it obviously does depend on the gameplay at hand.

I belive I was one of those.

On the whole, people in this thread (at least for the last page or two) have been rather easygoing to your close-minded, dumb-fuck posts.

Can I get an order of rolleyes, supersized? kthx.

 

[TekunoRobby]

I'm sorry, I skipped all the pages.

I'm really looking foward to this game and this is coming from a multi-platform owner. Sure I've got HL2, GTA:SA, Halo 2, and all the other monsters but I place this game right next to those in terms of anticipation. Ok I lie, Half Life 2/Halo 2 are my most anticipated games but the others do come close!

Aside from the demo I played and the vague information regarding the light/dark world I'm in complete darkness regarding this game. I'm not really asking for an indepth story but I'm looking foward to being in awe at all the cool locales and situations the game has.

 

[Mejilan]

Hahaahah Shog. You're either trying really hard to be an idiot, or trying too hard to troll. I haven't made up my mind.

And to answer your question, I think they can "improve" the controls by making them either customizable to a certain degree, or by offering multiple control schemes, or some combination thereof. As for me? I'd probably keep the default MP1 scheme, as I do think it was the most suiting for the gameplay. I might change one or two things, depending on how some of the new weapons and moves work. Then again, I might not.

I don't think I'll continue arguing the point, as you've as much as admitted that you never really experienced enough of the gameplay to have ANY credibility in this discussion whatsoever.

And try to respond to Buggy, please. I don't think it was the length of his post that made you light-headed.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

If DA is so good why do people still have to put in auto aiming? All FPS console controls suck ass, arguing over which is better is fucking stupid.

 

[Kon Tiki]

If DA is so good why do people still have to put in auto aiming? All FPS console controls suck ass, arguing over which is better is fucking stupid.

In some games, you can not turn it off.

 

[Shogmaster]

Hahaahah Shog. You're either trying really hard to be an idiot, or trying too hard to troll. I haven't made up my mind.

Potkettleblack! Yay for you!!

And to answer your question, I think they can "improve" the controls by making them either customizable to a certain degree, or by offering multiple control schemes, or some combination thereof.

So you are admitting that the controls have flaws?

As for me? I'd probably keep the default MP1 scheme, as I do think it was the most suiting for the gameplay.

What are you, running for public office? Why can't you give a straight fucking answer? Can the MP controls be improved or not? Not customize option BS, Is there parts of the current MP control config that could benefit from changes? Yes or no. YES OR NO.

I might change one or two things, depending on how some of the new weapons and moves work. Then again, I might not.

Fucking brilliant GW impressions.

I don't think I'll continue arguing the point, as you've as much as admitted that you never really experienced enough of the gameplay to have ANY credibility in this discussion whatsoever.

Someone has no fucking comprehension skills. As I and many others have stated clearly in the beginning, my problem with the game is controls, and the espects I have problem is that in order to look up and down, you must push a button while coming to a complete stop, and that aiming is using kiddy lock on method. All this is painfully obvious within the first minute of playing.

If you enjoy that control scheme, the only logical conclusion we can reach is that then you don't care about freedom of movement, and or you suck at aiming. Otherwise you might want to admit right now that controls for MP could stand to be improved upon. But none of you fuckers are willing to do either of those simple things, just dancing around the issue with anacdotal ramblings.

And try to respond to Buggy, please.

Coming right up, just for you.

I don't think it was the length of his post that made you light-headed.

True. It was from all the dancing around of the obvious.

 

[Shogmaster]

/rolleyes

Lets see, stealth genre, between Thief3's 3rd person and first person, ask anyone here who played the game which was more immersive. I didnt say that every other games couldnt be immersive if they werent in first person, im saying that being in the character's point of view is the ~most~ immersive point of view you can have in today's games, why do you think valve wants to always keep the action from gordon's perspective at ALL times, from the dialogues to the cutscenes, you never leave the character. Why do you think retro spent so much time making visor effects such as water splashing on the visor, green goo, her face flashing on it, steam, etc? Because it immersed the character in what samus was going throught, no ammount of arguing on your part will change that, its one of the best part of metroid prime being in 3d, seeing throught the eyes of the bounty hunter.

Really immersive when Samus rolls into a ball in third person, eh?

Forgetting that inconvinient fact for a moment, this is basically what I get from reading this portion of your magnum opus of a reply: presentation is more important than play mechanics. Tell me if that's unfair, but as I understand it, basically, you are saying that even though the control mechanics of the game in 1st person is less than ideal (can't move while looking/aiming up and down), It's all fine and dandy because you get to see her fog up the screen and you get to get your immersion rocks off to the nth degree. Tell me if I'm off. You'd rather be immersed via presentation than controls. How about it?

BTW, can we also take a moment right now and get you on record as to if you see the fact that you can't move while looking up and down as a good or bad espect of the controls? No tapdancing around the question with 1000 words reply (since too many words give me a headache because english is also my second language), just yes or no. Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

That too but but you're delusional if you think that game designers dont lay the plans for the mechanics of the first person shooter without immersion in mind, in fact, they spend huge ammounts of time to make it believable to the player that what they see is the logical thing if the player was in the character's place, visor effects like i said above, totally useless for the gameplay, but its there for immersion, geist's looking at his hands after possesing a person, Breakdown's constant sight of the character's hands, down to opening doors, opening a can of soda and drinking it, fighting with his fists and so on, because its the logical things you would see if YOU were to do these movements. If it was only for having more view space, nobody would bother wasting time on such animations or effects, they would all have a static gun and a crosshair, like the first FPS had.

I demand immersion from controls as much as visuals, but that's just me. BTW, you must have loved JP Traspasser for PC. Enough immersion to squeeze out of every pore, hole, and crevice in your body in that game!

What if i decide to master marksmanship in morrowind? You have a weapon held in the right arm, and it shoot "things", the ancestor of guns at the time, i guess that makes morrowind an FPS with that particular way of playing.

Sure. I have no problem with that. I'll say it: Morrowind has FPS control espects in it.

What about system shock 2 where you can play the game without ever firing a gun?

That would make it FPNS (First Person None Shooter).

I'll repeat what i've said numerous times before on this forum, the FPS is not a genre, the media might have categorized it as such but the fundamental genres are action/adventure/puzzle/role playing/strategy/sport/racing and some could even argue stealth is now one of them.

We have no disagreement here. I've never said that FPS is a genre. It's a control mechanics/method.

You can have a first person shooter which focus on the action genre, such as doom, you can have a first person shooter that focus on adventure, such as metroid, a first person shooter that focus mainly on role playing, such as system shock 2 and to a less extent, deus ex and soon STALKER. AI hasnt come to a point where strategy could work but far cry did a damn good job. Its ONLY a point of view, it doesnt deserve to have its own genre and then categorize every damn games who are in first person and has a gun as "FPS". Metroid's focus, believe it or not is not about shooting, since that has ALWAYS been way too easy in the metroid franchise, samus mows down waves after waves of enemies without getting much of a scratch, metroid is about finding items and new upgrades to go beat the shit out of the next boss, you cant beat boss X or Y without having the required beam, you cant pass certain points on the map unless you get upgrade X or Y, its very much zelda'ish. Shooting is an afterthought, its just to get rid of nuissances. The boss also focus more on strategy than randomly shooting, they have weak spots, you could spend hours shooting the boss, if its at the wrong place it wont do any damage. Contrary to the traditional action focus FPS where as long as you have "something" in the crosshair, it counts as damage, no matter the weapon.

Stretching it hard, dude. By those standards, many games using 1st person camera is also a "First Person Action game" like MP. Halo has just as much exploration as MP. You can choose to go head into a battle, or sneak around avoiding them. You also have some puzzle elements and objective that must be fullfilled in order to advance. Your choice of weapon during key parts matter greatly as well. And there are also some interesting "platforming" opportunities that will let you skip a vast hords of enemies at the time.

Simply, there's nothing exceptionally unique about MP that would justify it's rediculously arbitray control restrictions. That's just simple and plainly obvious to those that don't have gamecube controller stuck up their ass.

I could simply refute that argument with "in small corridors and caves, are you kidding me?" but that would be too simple.

More stupid than simple, but go ahead.

In case you never noticed, its BECAUSE of platforming that metroid prime's control scheme are as they are and not with dual analogs.

That's quite an assertion. You're gonna have to back that up with some substantive reasoning before sneaking on to the next one. From where I sit, it's absolutely rediculous and baseless. And this is from experiencing plenty of platforming elements in games that have dual analog controls.

Let's take XBox Counter Strike for instance. You have there your quintessential FPS with dual analog controls. Yet, I have done plenty of jumping on top of boxes, platforms, ledges, roofs, heads of teammates, and railings to know that platforming works wonderfully. Some skill is required obcourse, but then we do aim for ourselves in CS.

Its also because of platforming in a first person that the camera subtly tilt down when you jump.

Is that somehow impossible to impliment with a dual analog controls? What am I missing here?

From what i recall in november 2002, the majority of impressions gamers had after playing metroid prime is that platforming was the best that had been done in a first person and that when you got the grip on the controls, it was very very fluid to travel in MP's environments, and i agree entirely with that.

Well good for you, and congrats. Would you like to congratulate me in my succesful platforming around in CS in return?

In fact i have less problems travelling in MP's world in first person and platforming like mad than make 3rd person platforming games, jak 2 and mario sunshine comes to mind where the character can be too far from the camera and you lose the sense of depth of where he is in the world compared to the platforms, end result, the little circle shadow the character cast when he's jumping is pretty worthless if the height you're jumping from is too big or the camera decide to not tilt down.

If the plaforms in those games are as huge and accommodating as they are in MP (as others have stated), then I highly doubt you'll have any problems transversing in them.

I excluded dual analog movement for simple reasons, how many of those examples of yours focus on jumping?

Of those I own on XBox (Halo, CS, Ghost Recon, and Rainbow 6), it looks like I'm hitting 50%. I jumped, hopped, and skipped to my advantage in both Halo and CS. In Halo, jumping well is very useful. In CS, jumping well is a downright essential skill in order to survive. Look at Italy. Apartments require good amount of precise jumping in order to get to as a CT. And what about the apartments roof camping spot as a T? Or sneaking into the house as a CT through the stairs side window? If you never played CS, just trust me on this.

If you think that a splinter cell camera view and control would fit metroid prime, well i wont even bother to argue with you, i'll let the other readers post judgement and maybe ask you the name of your dealer.

Actually, I'd much rather have Halo/CS views and controls instead. Infact, when I first picked up the controllers at the EB MP2 demo kiosk, I instinctively went to the CS postion. Lots of "WTF?!?" and "Jebus fucking Criminy!" ensued momentarily after.

sigh, that freaking argument again. I'll just copy and paste "the list". I've played pretty much every PC fps you can think of, going all the way back to catacomb 3d, you know, ID's game they released before wolfeinstein 3d?. Lets see, catacomb 3d, wolfeinstein 3d, blake stone, doom 1 & 2, descent 1/2/3, quake, duke nukem 3d, quake 2, quake 3, unreal tournament/2003/2004, system shock 2, thief 1 & 2, deus ex 1 & 2, delta force, half life and all of its expansions, counterstrike from its beta phase 3 to 1.5, undying, tribes 1 & 2, rainbow 6 and its expansions, operation flashpoint, medal of honor AA, soldier of fortune 1 & 2, NOFL 1 & 2, return to castle wolfeinstein,, etc. Probably forgot some. Basicly, i've stopped playing FPS when my PC couldnt handle them anymore, which are doom3. Played farcry on my bro's PC, along with call of duty, battlefield 1942 and vietnam and some tidbits of doom3. Im probably forgetting a lot of them too.

I wont bother with a console list since im lazy and i dont think it would prove anything further, just know that i've played pretty much all of them, on any platforms.

So then, why do i love metroid prime? And another person on this forum pretty much have the same list and experience with first person shooters as me, with the holy trinity being system shock 2, deus ex 2 and thief 2, namely darkx10, and he also loves metroid prime? Maybe its not because of its shooting elements which have been done way better in other games? Maybe its the immersion, the level design, the puzzles, the item and upgrades you find by exploring ? Yea, i think its because of that. My favorite FPS of all time was and is still system shock 2, and yet i rank metroid prime as one of my favorite game "ever", why? Because i dont value them by a mere camera point of view.

To me, all that can be only summed up with a simple "industrial thickness Nintendo goggles". I'm sorry but how else can I explain utter unwillingness to face the fact that MP controls have some issues? Stopping in your tracks to look up and down? That's a fucking issue! The fact that you can't admit to that being a problematic control issue is in itself a serious issue! Seek help!

Your loss, and i DO think that retro should make 2 control schemes to satisfy everyone,

Why if the controls as they are currently is "perfect"? Why add unnecessary control option since "perfect" controls already exists? Is there something better than "perfect"?

but i aint the complainer here,

Painfully obvious.

i adapted to MP's control scheme,

Adapted to deal with it's inherent problems, right?

it took a while, but by the time i was fighting the incinerator, all was fine with it.

Sort of like fucking in a back seat of a car. It ain't a nice comfy bed, but you're willing to put up with it, right?

You simply have to let go of the mentality that you're playing an fps, stop trying to look up or down as you move, cause honestly, the only reason you have to do that in the game is to target flying pirates or scan something, while moving throught the maps there's not a single time where you have to change the camera view to travel, the level design is made with that in mind.

Meaning, they've simplified the game for the controls.

On that, im throught with this argument,

I thought it was over with back when Electricphase layed down the word, but oh well. Your fans insisted in me replying.

you either agree or not, but my point of view is pretty much fully explained in this post, i dont see any reason to come back here to defend it, its solid in my eyes and no ammount of arguing will change my perception i had with metroid prime anyway so if you think its the biggest pile of shit to ever grace consoles, its your loss.

Hell, I've given up any thoughts of changing your minds a long long time ago. You guys can't even tell a difference between calling something "the biggest pile of shit to ever grace consoles" and merely criticising one of the gameplay elements. It's like talking to a brick wall. A retarded one.

 

[Mike Works]

Holy God lets all STILL complain about controls which are identical to the prequel which these arguments originally stemmed from.

Guess what.

IF YOUR OPINION WASN'T CHANGED FOR BETTER OR WORSE AFTER PLAYING THE FIRST METROID PRIME, I DON'T THINK ECHOES IS GOING TO CHANGE MUCH

Keep that in mind while you're arguing over the inferior/capable control layout of what is effectively a game everyone played a couple of years ago.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Holy God lets all STILL complain about controls which are identical to the prequel which these arguments originally stemmed from.

Guess what.

IF YOUR OPINION WASN'T CHANGED FOR BETTER OR WORSE AFTER PLAYING THE FIRST METROID PRIME, I DON'T THINK ECHOES IS GOING TO CHANGE MUCH

Keep that in mind while you're arguing over the inferior/capable control layout of what is effectively a game everyone played a couple of years ago.

LOL. Mike Works rocks. I wonder if the debate will continue to rage on now that the supreme commander has stepped in. Us normal members can't stop the tirade. I reckon lock the thread if it does. THe next MP thread we should have is the OFFICIAL METROID PRIME ECHOES THREAD. I seriously cannot wait.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

I thougt Prime's controls were %110 perfect. If you want a different control scheme then play an FPS on your xbox or PC. I mean, Prime was designed around this control scheme and for them to change it would mean changing the entire game. I would be curious to see what it would be like with different controls. But I am %110 satisfied with these controls and I think that changing them would entail changing much of the games ballancing, level designs, and enemies. Metroid Prime was upon release my favorite game this generation and still ranks towards the select top few right alongside Ninja Gaiden. It is arguably the highest ranked game this generation by professional critics.

 

[Shogmaster]

LOL. Mike Works rocks. I wonder if the debate will continue to rage on now that the supreme commander has stepped in. Us normal members can't stop the tirade. I reckon lock the thread if it does. THe next MP thread we should have is the OFFICIAL METROID PRIME ECHOES THREAD. I seriously cannot wait.

Pfft. What a fucking cop-out. "Mike wants it closed so too bad on buggy not being able to reply". So damn transparent.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

Halo has just as much exploration as MP.

Lol. For you to say that reveals how much you do not know.

 

[Shogmaster]

Lol. For you to say that reveals how much you do not know.

Actually, you are right about this part. I never played through the game as I've already admitted., but I've seen some MP playthrough guide on G4TechTV (cheat! I think), and I did see visor switching to get to secret passages and tons of back tracking o' plenty, so probably MP exploration is greater than Halo.

 

[Mejilan]

*shakes head*

Like some whining, Nintendo-hating boob. You aren't even arguing so much as (failing at) twisting words around. In case you missed it before, I said they could "improve" the controls by offering an option. I implied that I wasn't serious about the word "improve" by including the quotes. You follow, son? I thought the controls were perfect for Metroid Prime, so no, I don't need, require, or want an option. But, unlike you, I can also recognize that not everyone will agree with my assessment of the control scheme, and hence I admit that perhaps an different scheme, or multiple schemes, should be incorporated. To satisfy those that aren't happy with the defaults. Like others here, I happen to feel that the level design and gameplay was largely designed around this particular control scheme, not vice-versa. I too wonder at how a lock-less DA control scheme would affect the gameplay... negatively most likely.

In regards to MP2E, I've only played the demo, which didn't include any new mechanics that weren't already in the original. I have no idea how the new gameplay mechanics will be controlled, and thus I can't even be sure that the control scheme they had in the demo was even final. So I'll hold off on a final judgement. However, I don't expect the controls to change much, nor do I expect that they'll need to change, even with the new moves.

So, to answer your question. NO, I WOULD NOT CHANGE THE CONTROLS OF MP. However, if offering an option would let more people enjoy and experience the game, then I'm all for it. I'd be aggravated if the focus of the game was indeed shooting, but like others have said before, the focus of the game, like all prior Metroids, is on exploring, puzzle solving, and platforming, more than shooting. Like in prior games, the overwhelming majority of the enemies you face are merely fodder for you to plow through. And while there is a certain satisfaction in that, like in the 2D games, it quickly becomes second nature.

You seem to suggest at one point that the Cubetroller is ulimately at fault, yet Timesplitters 2 worked just fine with a DA scheme. Fucking horrible game, but it DID control nicely.

So your position is that Halo has as many exploration elements as Metroid Prime? That just shows how woefully ignorant you are on this subject. Once again... no credibility. Still. Nice try. Sorta.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Actually, you are right about this part. I never played through the game as I've already admitted., but I've seen some MP playthrough guide on G4TechTV (cheat! I think), and I did see visor switching to get to secret passages and tons of back tracking o' plenty, so probably MP exploration is greater than Halo.

ban-stick

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

Actually, you are right about this part. I never played through the game as I've already admitted., but I've seen some MP playthrough guide on G4TechTV (cheat! I think), and I did see visor switching to get to secret passages and tons of back tracking o' plenty, so probably MP exploration is greater than Halo.

*head explodes*

 

[Redbeard]

I thougt Prime's controls were %110 perfect. If you want a different control scheme then play an FPS on your xbox or PC. I mean, Prime was designed around this control scheme and for them to change it would mean changing the entire game. I would be curious to see what it would be like with different controls. But I am %110 satisfied with these controls and I think that changing them would entail changing much of the games ballancing, level designs, and enemies. Metroid Prime was upon release my favorite game this generation and still ranks towards the select top few right alongside Ninja Gaiden. It is arguably the highest ranked game this generation by professional critics.

You should work at Capcom, as they also believe that the control scheme of a game dictates it's genre. :/

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

You should work at Capcom, as they also believe that the control scheme of a game dictates it's genre. :/

Well I adore capcom, so sure. ;-)
Note, however, that I don't think the control scheme dictates its genre. I think, though, that Prime is very much an action/adventure Metroid game and because of the excellent job retro did in creating the game the controls work perfectly.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Actually, you are right about this part. I never played through the game as I've already admitted., but I've seen some MP playthrough guide on G4TechTV (cheat! I think), and I did see visor switching to get to secret passages and tons of back tracking o' plenty, so probably MP exploration is greater than Halo.

Good God there's no hope for humanity.

 

[Floyd]

Really immersive when Samus rolls into a ball in third person, eh?

It would have been so wrong to remove the ball mode. It was needed to keep things varied and throw in all kinds of puzzle elements.

If Retro could have made it possible in any way to make ball mode actually work properly in first person (Hehe i just cant see it) i think they would have.

When coming out of ball mode your straight back into the suit looking out from Samus eyes again, so it doesn't spoil the immersion.

You admit you haven't played the game at home on your TV. If you had i think you would feel the immersion you get from it.

It really did work. The atmosphere. Spooky music. The claustrophobia inside that suit. Alone on a strange alien world, seeking out an old enemy, and uncovering its secrets. Good stuff.

Read some of the old IGN articles when Prime was going through development to see what they were aiming for.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/097/097440p1.html
http://cube.ign.com/articles/360/360445p1.html

Actually, you are right about this part. I never played through the game as I've already admitted., but I've seen some MP playthrough guide on G4TechTV (cheat! I think), and I did see visor switching to get to secret passages and tons of back tracking o' plenty, so probably MP exploration is greater than Halo.

Your still holding onto the flawed assumption Prime should be compared in any way to Halo or any FPS style combat game. So all your complaints against prime throughout the thread are flawed because of it.

Putting FPS style controls for movement and combat into a game with lock on based strategy combat, that would make it a flawed game.

Every Boss Fight and all the Ghost Chozo and many Pirates revolve around it.

(Locking onto various enemy locations. Needing to change your visor view to locate the weak spot, and lock onto that area. Needing to strafe around while locked on to dodge enemy fire, Needing to constantly swap around which projectile beam needs to be used to kill the enemy. Needing to change your combat visor instantly to see certain invisible enemies. Needing to circle chozo ghosts and dodge as they plunge towards you at great speed.)

Why would you want Duel FPS combat controls when the combat in this game is based around lock on combat play?

I would sum up Prime as an adventure/Exploration/Lock on combat videogame. But you cant really sum up games anymore with simple labels. Games have come too far and gone in all kinds of directions to be given labels. So Metroid Prime, is simply Metorid Prime.

Its more than fine to say "I only like the FPS duel control type combat games, so prime isn't my type of game" But its wrong to look at the game as something which it is not, and try to pick out flaws based on that.

If you were to be honest and forget the hate and pissing contest, im pretty dam sure you would admit prime isn't as flawed as you first thought before coming into this thread.

 

[ourumov]

I think I lost interest in this game. Perhaps I'll pick it up when it goes cheap

That's absolutelly how I feel.

I have to admit that I never liked the idea of Metroid being a FPS, although Nintendo is making efforts to make us believe that the game is a FPA and that was the best decision they could take (sorry but I don't agree).
Anyways, the first game was great and was like some kind of Super Metroid Homage (to my eyes)...but it seems that Iguana..(I mean Retro Studios) went too far this time. I barelly see Metroid influences there.
Will the game be fun ? I don't know it, I haven't played it. But I doubt the game is worse than the first one so I think those who liked it will love it.
Not me. Enough is enough and I had enough with Metroid Prime. I understood the game as a nice homage to an old franchise but not as the Metroid successor !

I see thos images and graphics aside they don't make me nuts... Not that I can blame Nintendo...the money is the money and if we consider the effect of the first one, to release an iteration was the logical action.

 

[SantaC]

That's absolutelly how I feel.

I have to admit that I never liked the idea of Metroid being a FPS, although Nintendo is making efforts to make us believe that the game is a FPA and that was the best decision they could take (sorry but I don't agree).
Anyways, the first game was great and was like some kind of Super Metroid Homage (to my eyes)...but it seems that Iguana..(I mean Retro Studios) went too far this time. I barelly see Metroid influences there.
Will the game be fun ? I don't know it, I haven't played it. But I doubt the game is worse than the first one so I think those who liked it will love it.
Not me. Enough is enough and I had enough with Metroid Prime. I understood the game as a nice homage to an old franchise but not as the Metroid successor !

I see thos images and graphics aside they don't make me nuts... Not that I can blame Nintendo...the money is the money and if we consider the effect of the first one, to release an iteration was the logical action.

Atleast Retro has added the walljump and screw attack in the sequel, which is very Metroid like.

As for the screenshots, I reserve my judgment of the graphics until I have played it. It seems that it looks alot better in motion. the GC capture device is crap.

And there is no doubt that Retro could have gone with 30fps, and made it look alot better, but 60fps is the right way to go imo. So damn smooth.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Like i said in my other post, i aint gonna bother reply, especially when you arent being serious about it, i posted my opinion, i dont see any reasons why i should defend it, its my view and it aint going to change. Plus you're doing a good job by yourself to discredit your opinion anyway.

On subject
I booted up metroid prime again last night, for god knows how many times and played up to 3am, and know what? After playing throught it at LEAST 6 times since november 2002, its still an awesome experience anytime i go back in, the ammount of details in the levels, each rooms being unique, the fluidity while travelling, the music, the graphics, and yes, even the controls. Looking at the new MP2 shots, the new environments, i just cant wait to go and explore them, the industrial level with pouring rain looks so damn awesome!

 

[SantaC]

Like i said in my other post, i aint gonna bother reply, especially when you arent being serious about it, i posted my opinion, i dont see any reasons why i should defend it, its my view and it aint going to change. Plus you're doing a good job by yourself to discredit your opinion anyway.

On subject
I booted up metroid prime again last night, for god knows how many times and played up to 3am, and know what? After playing throught it at LEAST 6 times since november 2002, its still an awesome experience anytime i go back in, the ammount of details in the levels, each rooms being unique, the fluidity while travelling, the music, the graphics, and yes, even the controls. Looking at the new MP2 shots, the new environments, i just cant wait to go and explore them, the industrial level with pouring rain looks so damn awesome!

I just hope there are more variation in the enviroment I have seen so far. The areas look very cool, but I don't want the whole game to look like Phazon Mines.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I just hope there are more variation in the enviroment I have seen so far. The areas look very cool, but I don't want the whole game to look like Phazon Mines.

Indeed but from IGN's 20 reason to love MP2, this tidbit gives me faith

The Prime 2 demo only showcases a miniscule part of the areas in the game. Expect to see industrialized locales like the storm-surrounded bridge above, but don't forget about swamplands, desert, and futuristic landscapes overflowing with high-tech lighting and unpredictable paths.

Swamplands, oh boy oh boy, i hope someone at retro got the smart idea to remix the brinstar music from SM3

 

[SantaC]

Indeed but from IGN's 20 reason to love MP2, this tidbit gives me faith



Swamplands, oh boy oh boy, i hope someone at retro got the smart idea to remix the brinstar music from SM3

Less than 1 month to go!

 

[Kiriku]

I really like this screenshot for some reason. The hi-tech, dotted pattern in the background intrigues me.

Atleast Retro has added the walljump and screw attack in the sequel, which is very Metroid like.

Any news on how the walljump and screw attack are going to work in practice? Does the game switch to a 3rd person view when using these abilites?

 

[SantaC]

I really like this screenshot for some reason. The hi-tech, dotted pattern in the background intrigues me.

Any news on how the walljump and screw attack are going to work in practice? Does the game switch to a 3rd person view when using these abilites?

I have no idea actually, but I assume so.

 

[Shogmaster]

Like i said in my other post, i aint gonna bother reply, especially when you arent being serious about it,

You are dissapointing me. Out of all the tools in this thread, you seemed like the only one that could approach the discussion without going into bile filled wacko mode and actually attampt to reason things out.

I'm always half joking in my posts, but I'm serious about one thing in this thread: Getting just one of you MP jealots to admit to me just once that just maybe, MP control layout does have a problematic aspect to it that could be improved. At this point, I don't care about anything else. I want one of you to say it one way or another: Stopping in your tracks to look up and down is A). a great control design or B). less than ideal control design and should be fixed. I've asked this to various people many time in this thread and not one of them yet has had the balls to choose. NOT dance around the question with a paragraph, but JUST CHOOSE A OR B!!! Will you be my savior Buggy?

i posted my opinion, i dont see any reasons why i should defend it, its my view and it aint going to change.

Cognitive Dissonance is a right of any zealot.

Plus you're doing a good job by yourself to discredit your opinion anyway.

Hmmm. I guess admiting to one of my points might being wrong is a wholesale discrediting of everything I posted, eh? What a horrible thing to do, admiting that you might be worng on something! It's much better to take a GW approach to things and maybe they'll just go away, right? It's Sweden bitch! Sweden! LALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU~

On subject
I booted up metroid prime again last night, for god knows how many times and played up to 3am, and know what? After playing throught it at LEAST 6 times since november 2002, its still an awesome experience anytime i go back in, the ammount of details in the levels, each rooms being unique, the fluidity while travelling, the music, the graphics, and yes, even the controls. Looking at the new MP2 shots, the new environments, i just cant wait to go and explore them, the industrial level with pouring rain looks so damn awesome!

This might be a wasted effort, but I'll bother one more time.

I don't doubt (and never have) that MP once you get past the control issue is a WONDERFUL experience. And all likelyhood it's my loss for not getting past the control issue, missing out on a great game.

HOWEVER

that's got nothing to do with the fact that it does have a control that is less than logical, and what I have been trying to do for the last couple of days is to get just one of you in the MP wacko brigade to admit just once that maybe not EVERYTHING in MP is gaming perfection, and that maybe it has something to gain by fixing the controls. That is all I want from this thread at this point. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.

Now you may return to your regularly scheduled MP2 circlejerk.

 

[DDayton]

and what I have been trying to do for the last couple of days is to get just one of you in the MP wacko brigade to admit just once that maybe not EVERYTHING in MP is gaming perfection, and that maybe it has something to gain by fixing the controls. That is all I want from this thread at this point. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.

Cough.

1) The controls in Metroid Prime aren't perfect.

2) Replacing them with "standard" FPS controls wouldn't fit the game as a whole.

There, are you happy? I think the point everyone was making was that even if the controls weren't perfect, they are well suited to the game...

 

[Deleted member 1235]

meh, lockon takes care of needing to look up to blast things.

Why are you so desperate to rag on the controls anyway? If it's a game breaker for you, then don't buy the next one...

If you want a choice, suggest the alternative, I'll be happy to choose, make sure you cover every control option in the alternative though.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

You are dissapointing me. Out of all the tools in this thread, you seemed like the only one that could approach the discussion without going into bile filled wacko mode and actually attampt to reason things out.

I'm always half joking in my posts, but I'm serious about one thing in this thread: Getting just one of you MP jealots to admit to me just once that just maybe, MP control layout does have a problematic aspect to it that could be improved. At this point, I don't care about anything else. I want one of you to say it one way or another: Stopping in your tracks to look up and down is A). a great control design or B). less than ideal control design and should be fixed. I've asked this to various people many time in this thread and not one of them yet has had the balls to choose. NOT dance around the question with a paragraph, but JUST CHOOSE A OR B!!! Will you be my savior Buggy?



Cognitive Dissonance is a right of any zealot.



Hmmm. I guess admiting to one of my points might being wrong is a wholesale discrediting of everything I posted, eh? What a horrible thing to do, admiting that you might be worng on something! It's much better to take a GW approach to things and maybe they'll just go away, right? It's Sweden bitch! Sweden! LALALALALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU~



This might be a wasted effort, but I'll bother one more time.

I don't doubt (and never have) that MP once you get past the control issue is a WONDERFUL experience. And all likelyhood it's my loss for not getting past the control issue, missing out on a great game.

HOWEVER

that's got nothing to do with the fact that it does have a control that is less than logical, and what I have been trying to do for the last couple of days is to get just one of you in the MP wacko brigade to admit just once that maybe not EVERYTHING in MP is gaming perfection, and that maybe it has something to gain by fixing the controls. That is all I want from this thread at this point. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.

Now you may return to your regularly scheduled MP2 circlejerk.

OH SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

 

[Shogmaster]

Cough.

1) The controls in Metroid Prime aren't perfect.

Were you among the MP wacko brigade? Huh, I guess I missed your post when you asked for the head of the infidel. In anycase, thanks.

2) Replacing them with "standard" FPS controls wouldn't fit the game as a whole.

In what sense? That it would make the shooting portion too sensible?

There, are you happy?

Happiness is an illusion, but I think I'd be happier when one of the others reply in this manner.

I think the point everyone was making was that even if the controls weren't perfect, they are well suited to the game...

And my point is that it's well suited for the game becaue they dumbed down the game environment and the enemies for the controls.

 

[Shogmaster]

OH SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

That fits perfectly!

 

[Shoryuken]

Shogmaster,

I think you should play the game before complaining about it. The controls were weird to me at first, but after an hour or two, I could use them very fluidly and effectively.

 

[Mejilan]

Actually, you did "put me on the spot" with a YES OR NO answer, and I chose. You ignored. *shrugs*

Looking up/down is mostly a non-issue. It's there if you want it, but I can't recall one crucial moment in the game where stopping for a second was detrimental. The "boost dodge" mechanic is a great way to quickly dodge out of danger, even if you did pause for a second, and quite frankly, at least 9 times out of 10, whatever you were trying to look at was close enough to be able to be locked on, at which point Samus would instantly look either up or down in order to center the locked subject in her view, be they enemies or static points of interest.

Had you sat down and played the game for any measure of time, you'd easily have realized just how well crafted the gameplay and levels are to the current control scheme, just how much of a non-issue most of your theoretical gripes really are.

Not having played the game, you have absolutely no basis for arguing the particularly points that you are. You don't like the scheme? Fine. It's a game-breaker for you? Fine. But don't lay out scenarios to "support" your one-side and close-minded gripes when those scenarios don't actually exist or aren't real issues in the game being discussed.

As for the MP2E circle jerk... nothing different than what's going on in the Halo 2 threads. It's a highly anticipated sequel to a very well-received game, and as such, is likely to deserve the glowing attention it gets.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

That fits perfectly!

I'm curious, how far did you get in MP? I think it would be easier for some to ecrpt your complaints if we know you spent a significant time with the game. A lot of us believe that theres elements to the game that would make it difficult for dual analog.

The first time I played a FPS with dual analog, I would get frustrated, but I took time out to get used to it. I didn't play alot first person shooters on the P.C, but what I have played on the consoles I enjoyed.

 

[Shogmaster]

Shogmaster,

I think you should play the game before complaining about it. The controls were weird to me at first, but after an hour or two, I could use them very fluidly and effectively.

I suppose. All I know was that the controls disgusted me during the short MP2 demo at EB.

Anyone could adapt to less than ideal controls. The question is, do I want to? I guess I'm a control freak. I've spent countless $$$$ on arcade fighting sticks, VO twin sticks, driving wheels, Wacom Cintiqs, just so that I get the best controls. I just can't stand less than the best controls. Makes me ill.

In the case of MP, the hardware is plenty ready for more logical controls, and it just seems wrong that the gamers had to adjust to less logical controls that was wholely unnecessary.

 

[Shoryuken]

I suppose. All I know was that the controls disgusted me during the short MP2 demo at EB.

Anyone could adapt to less than ideal controls. The question is, do I want to? I guess I'm a control freak. I've spent countless $$$$ on arcade fighting sticks, VO twin sticks, driving wheels, Wacom Cintiqs, just so that I get the best controls. I just can't stand less than the best controls. Makes me ill.

In the case of MP, the hardware is plenty ready for more logical controls, and it just seems wrong that the gamers had to adjust to less logical controls that was wholely unnecessary.

Dude, if you haven't played the game your arguement is null-in-void. Once you play the game for a while and adapt to the controls you understand why the controls are designed the way they are. But as you are right now, you'll never enjoy the game so don't even bother. If you're going to keep looking for what you "think" you want the controls to be, you'll never be able to adapt, accept (hell and maybe even like) the controls for what they are.

And about adapting to "less than ideal" controls. How do you know they are less than ideal, if you haven't even put the time in to learn them. That's like someone whom has only used a trackball, saying a d-pad or analogue stick for control is less than ideal, because that isn't what they are accustomed to.

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm curious, how far did you get in MP? I think it would be easier for some to ecrpt your complaints if we know you spent a significant time with the game. A lot of us believe that theres elements to the game that would make it difficult for dual analog.

How would you guys know? Did you try out MP with dual analog? It could be a blast for all you know.

The first time I played a FPS with dual analog, I would get frustrated, but I took time out to get used to it. I didn't play alot first person shooters on the P.C, but what I have played on the consoles I enjoyed.

I have gotten efficient with just about any controls available in gaming, and quickly too I might add. When all my friends were bitching about how hard it was to get use to the dual anolog from keyboard and mouse to play FPS on XBox, I was sailing away with it. I can play mouse and keyboard, I can play arcade stick, I can play whatever you throw at me and do it well.

And let me make this clear, I had no problems adjusting to MP2 controls to play well through the demo. I can adjust fine.

The point is: I DON'T WANT TO. Because pushing a button to look up and down while coming to a halt is STUPID.

 

[Scrow]

There's a problem with Metroid Prime controls? Wow, thanks for letting me know, I never would've known otherwise.

 

[Kon Tiki]

No idea. The controls are perfect for the game. They are not idea for any other game however, esp a fps. Seeing as this is not a fps, based on the trolls own accounts that it does not control like a fps, the gameplay it adapted to the controls.

 

[w0o]

I also thought MP's control scheme suited the gameplay very well. Locking on to enemies is quick and easy, no need for "mouse" free-look / dual analog controls.