Shogmaster said:
WTF, dude. Immersion?!? That's such a lame reason to do first person post year 2000. Was Splinter cell not "immersive"? Celda? Countless 3rd person PS2 games including MGS? Immersion should come from gameplay in this day and age.
/rolleyes
Lets see, stealth genre, between Thief3's 3rd person and first person, ask anyone here who played the game which was more immersive. I didnt say that every other games couldnt be immersive if they werent in first person, im saying that being in the character's point of view is the ~most~ immersive point of view you can have in today's games, why do you think valve wants to always keep the action from gordon's perspective at ALL times, from the dialogues to the cutscenes, you never leave the character. Why do you think retro spent so much time making visor effects such as water splashing on the visor, green goo, her face flashing on it, steam, etc? Because it immersed the character in what samus was going throught, no ammount of arguing on your part will change that, its one of the best part of metroid prime being in 3d, seeing throught the eyes of the bounty hunter.
1st person is best for shooters in 3D space because you have unobstructed view of things you are shooting at. That's the real reason to do 1st person in this day and age. Christ.
That too but but you're delusional if you think that game designers dont lay the plans for the mechanics of the first person shooter without immersion in mind, in fact, they spend huge ammounts of time to make it believable to the player that what they see is the logical thing if the player was in the character's place, visor effects like i said above, totally useless for the gameplay, but its there for immersion, geist's looking at his hands after possesing a person, Breakdown's constant sight of the character's hands, down to opening doors, opening a can of soda and drinking it, fighting with his fists and so on, because its the logical things you would see if YOU were to do these movements. If it was only for having more view space, nobody would bother wasting time on such animations or effects, they would all have a static gun and a crosshair, like the first FPS had.
What's that big honkin thing on the right arm of samus? And what do you do with it? I don't think it's a hair dryer.
What if i decide to master marksmanship in morrowind? You have a weapon held in the right arm, and it shoot "things", the ancestor of guns at the time, i guess that makes morrowind an FPS with that particular way of playing. What about system shock 2 where you can play the game without ever firing a gun?
I'll repeat what i've said numerous times before on this forum, the FPS is not a genre, the media might have categorized it as such but the fundamental genres are action/adventure/puzzle/role playing/strategy/sport/racing and some could even argue stealth is now one of them. You can have a first person shooter which focus on the action genre, such as doom, you can have a first person shooter that focus on adventure, such as metroid, a first person shooter that focus mainly on role playing, such as system shock 2 and to a less extent, deus ex and soon STALKER. AI hasnt come to a point where strategy could work but far cry did a damn good job. Its ONLY a point of view, it doesnt deserve to have its own genre and then categorize every damn games who are in first person and has a gun as "FPS". Metroid's focus, believe it or not is not about shooting, since that has ALWAYS been way too easy in the metroid franchise, samus mows down waves after waves of enemies without getting much of a scratch, metroid is about finding items and new upgrades to go beat the shit out of the next boss, you cant beat boss X or Y without having the required beam, you cant pass certain points on the map unless you get upgrade X or Y, its very much zelda'ish. Shooting is an afterthought, its just to get rid of nuissances. The boss also focus more on strategy than randomly shooting, they have weak spots, you could spend hours shooting the boss, if its at the wrong place it wont do any damage. Contrary to the traditional action focus FPS where as long as you have "something" in the crosshair, it counts as damage, no matter the weapon.
For a platform game, are you kidding me?!?
I could simply refute that argument with "in small corridors and caves, are you kidding me?" but that would be too simple. In case you never noticed, its BECAUSE of platforming that metroid prime's control scheme are as they are and not with dual analogs. Its also because of platforming in a first person that the camera subtly tilt down when you jump. From what i recall in november 2002, the majority of impressions gamers had after playing metroid prime is that platforming was the best that had been done in a first person and that when you got the grip on the controls, it was very very fluid to travel in MP's environments, and i agree entirely with that. In fact i have less problems travelling in MP's world in first person and platforming like mad than make 3rd person platforming games, jak 2 and mario sunshine comes to mind where the character can be too far from the camera and you lose the sense of depth of where he is in the world compared to the platforms, end result, the little circle shadow the character cast when he's jumping is pretty worthless if the height you're jumping from is too big or the camera decide to not tilt down.
That paragraph shows the exact flaw in your thinking. Have you not played Splinter Cell? That game has 3rd person camera, yet employs the "tradtional FPS" controls. The notion that 3rd person or 1st limits you to certain control scheme just shows your limited thinking. Its a seperate issue.
I excluded dual analog movement for simple reasons, how many of those examples of yours focus on jumping? If you think that a splinter cell camera view and control would fit metroid prime, well i wont even bother to argue with you, i'll let the other readers post judgement and maybe ask you the name of your dealer.
Only in your minds. The rest of us that played PC games like Half Life, and XBox games like Halo, Splinter Cell etc. doesn't think that it's the second coming like you Nintendorks.
sigh, that freaking argument again. I'll just copy and paste "the list". I've played pretty much every PC fps you can think of, going all the way back to catacomb 3d, you know, ID's game they released before wolfeinstein 3d?. Lets see, catacomb 3d, wolfeinstein 3d, blake stone, doom 1 & 2, descent 1/2/3, quake, duke nukem 3d, quake 2, quake 3, unreal tournament/2003/2004, system shock 2, thief 1 & 2, deus ex 1 & 2, delta force, half life and all of its expansions, counterstrike from its beta phase 3 to 1.5, undying, tribes 1 & 2, rainbow 6 and its expansions, operation flashpoint, medal of honor AA, soldier of fortune 1 & 2, NOFL 1 & 2, return to castle wolfeinstein,, etc. Probably forgot some. Basicly, i've stopped playing FPS when my PC couldnt handle them anymore, which are doom3. Played farcry on my bro's PC, along with call of duty, battlefield 1942 and vietnam and
some tidbits of doom3. Im probably forgetting a lot of them too.
I wont bother with a console list since im lazy and i dont think it would prove anything further, just know that i've played pretty much all of them, on any platforms.
So then, why do i love metroid prime? And another person on this forum pretty much have the same list and experience with first person shooters as me, with the holy trinity being system shock 2, deus ex 2 and thief 2, namely darkx10, and he also loves metroid prime? Maybe its not because of its shooting elements which have been done way better in other games? Maybe its the immersion, the level design, the puzzles, the item and upgrades you find by exploring ? Yea, i think its because of that. My favorite FPS of all time was and is still system shock 2, and yet i rank metroid prime as one of my favorite game "ever", why? Because i dont value them by a mere camera point of view.
I am being totally honest when I say, I would have played MP all the way through and probably loved it if the controls was fixed. I even dealt with RE Zero on the GC for cryin out loud! Why in the hell wouldn't I have embraced MP? Just because it's on the GC? Fuck no.
Your loss, and i DO think that retro should make 2 control schemes to satisfy everyone, but i aint the complainer here, i adapted to MP's control scheme, it took a while, but by the time i was fighting the incinerator, all was fine with it. You simply have to let go of the mentality that you're playing an fps, stop trying to look up or down as you move, cause honestly, the only reason you have to do that in the game is to target flying pirates or scan something, while moving throught the maps there's not a single time where you have to change the camera view to travel, the level design is made with that in mind.
On that, im throught with this argument, you either agree or not, but my point of view is pretty much fully explained in this post, i dont see any reason to come back here to defend it, its solid in my eyes and no ammount of arguing will change my perception i had with metroid prime anyway so if you think its the biggest pile of shit to ever grace consoles, its your loss.
