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Metroid prime's framerate > Halo's
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Metroid Prime 2: Echoes - Visor and Weapon Screens
- Thread starter olimario
- Start date
Ok, that is a big IF though. :lol And coming from Mr Halo hater I wouldn't take much of the sentiment behind it with a huge grain of salt.. :lol
Now have I played it? No. But, do I know someone trustworthy who has? Yes. That is all I need to know. And on top of that, if you want to piece the puzzles together through various Retro inteviews it has already been confirmd multiplayer will be relatively basic. Now if you want to still believe multiplayer Metroid is going to be something fantastic go right ahead and live the dream. Again, depending on your reference and expectations for FPS multiplayer, maybe you will enjoy it. I won't get my hands on the game until the middle of November like everyone else. Believe me, don't believe me, I really don't care. I'll be too busy playing Halo 2, Half Life 2, and MP2:E single player.
Now have I played it? No. But, do I know someone trustworthy who has? Yes. That is all I need to know. And on top of that, if you want to piece the puzzles together through various Retro inteviews it has already been confirmd multiplayer will be relatively basic. Now if you want to still believe multiplayer Metroid is going to be something fantastic go right ahead and live the dream. Again, depending on your reference and expectations for FPS multiplayer, maybe you will enjoy it. I won't get my hands on the game until the middle of November like everyone else. Believe me, don't believe me, I really don't care. I'll be too busy playing Halo 2, Half Life 2, and MP2:E single player.
Justin Bailey
------ ------
And that's all I needed to know. Thanks.Mrbob said:
BTW, Halo continues to sell because of this "ice-age" split screen multiplayer you speak of. Believe it or not, not everyone lugs around an xbox and a TV everytime they play Halo with friends.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
mr bob. are you retarded. Of course one is. fps vs fpa.
eh? but then I agree. MP2E multip\-player isn't why I'm picking up this title - if anything I think the Metroid franchise is not one for FPS twinkering with. Its just stupid. Thank god the 1-p action still looks awesome fun.
MP2E should look very spectacular in motion - I for one am looking forward to the cel-shadish effects of the dark beam.
eh? but then I agree. MP2E multip\-player isn't why I'm picking up this title - if anything I think the Metroid franchise is not one for FPS twinkering with. Its just stupid. Thank god the 1-p action still looks awesome fun.
MP2E should look very spectacular in motion - I for one am looking forward to the cel-shadish effects of the dark beam.
Mrbob said:Aren't all first person shooters with a story and places to go also adventures??
no
Shooting is not a major thing in Metroid Prime.. exploring.. upgrades.. boss fights.. puzzles.. its just like the old metroid adventure this time only in first person view.. the core game didn't change to shooting at all
king zell said:
^^^^
Let's take a look at MP and Halo:
First person: Check
Shooting things in first person? Check
Going on an adventure? Check.
Just because the action isn't as furious in MP doesn't make Halo any less of an 'adventure'. It's like hardcore Nfans like to tag that adventure name on due to the fact that MP has a crippled control interface or the fact you don't shoot as much as you do in a game like Halo. In spite of it, the game is still very fun. But as an 'adventure', so to speak, you could almost argue that Halo has a more grandiose journey than Metroid Prime, even though Halo is getting tagged as "FIRST PERSON SHOOTER", so to speak.
If you want to get technical, a first person shooter would be something like Unreal Tournament. Metroid Prime shouldn't be distinguished as an adventure any more than Halo (1/2), Half Life (1/2), Call of Duty, etc. etc.
Floyd
Member
Mrbob said:
Personally I think you also need character building. Focus on Exploration and discovery, Puzzle solving. Lock on, And constant upgrades all the way through the game, to get the "Adventure" title.
Do your comparison of MP with Zelda OOT. You will find it shares far more in common with that than any FPS.
Well, I agree MP has some similarities to Zelda. But what I'm saying is that there are different means to create a game with an adventure in scope, and it doesn't have to rely around puzzle solving situations.
I agree. But I was going very basic for the discussion. Although I am curious, besides Morrowind series, how many western RPGs fall into that distinction of first person. When I think of Western RPGs, I think of Balders Gate series, Diablo series (to a degree), Fallout, IceWind Dale, Planescape Torment, KOTOR. Mostly 2D games and some series have evolved to 3D polygons.
I agree. But I was going very basic for the discussion. Although I am curious, besides Morrowind series, how many western RPGs fall into that distinction of first person. When I think of Western RPGs, I think of Balders Gate series, Diablo series (to a degree), Fallout, IceWind Dale, Planescape Torment, KOTOR. Mostly 2D games and some series have evolved to 3D polygons.
The problem with this argument is FPS games have evolved so much over the years that there really isn't such a thing as a "simple FPS game" anymore. I guess the closest thing you could probably find is Serious Sam. Even Unreal Tournament 2004 is pretty in depth for merely being a 'first person shooter'.
IGN has a ton of new screens up, along with a feature 20 reasons to love Metroid Prime 2.
Shogmaster
Member
Che said:
That is the stupiest thing I've heard on the topic. Total arbitrary and idiotic distinction you are making between the two.
This whole notion of MP being "not an FPS" but "an adventure" is pure shit. I found Halo to be an "advanture", and have a sneaky suspicion that same will prove true for Half Life 2. The control scheme differences does nothing to determine this.
Simply, Nintendo decided to dumb down the controls for MP for the sake of the audience, who apparently can't make distinctions between control schemes and game design goals.
Wow. @__@
I'm dying to pre-order the game now but my backlog is too big.
I'm dying to pre-order the game now but my backlog is too big.
No, sorry. Metroid Prime was anything but a FPS. In fact I think the worse part of the game was the phazon mines were it almost became a FPS. Of course there are adventure and shooter elements in most similar games but the keyword here is emphasis. Metroid's emphasis was on exploration, puzzle solving, and figuring out the technique to send that boss to hell. The main emphasis in a FPS is, well, shooting. Your aiming skills are number 1 and that's what mostly gets you through the game. I have not been following the discussion for the last few pages so Im sorry if this has been said. I just wanted to add my 2 cent.Shogmaster said:
Shogmaster
Member
king zell said:I don't think its right to call other people stupid and idiots just because their opinion is different than yours
Read it again. I didn't call him stupid, but rather the distinction he was making. Smart people can do some stupid shit you know.
Drinky Crow
Banned
More fucking visors? Geezus, Retro, that's right: take the second shittiest aspect of Prime and expand on it. (Scanning is the shittiest, tied with the overdesigned controls.)
The visor gimmick is just fucking OBNOXIOUS. Kill it.
The visor gimmick is just fucking OBNOXIOUS. Kill it.
Drinky Crow
Banned
No, the Thardus fight sucked rocks -- both literally and figuratively. I don't like playing finger twister during boss fights.
Drinky Crow said:
Here you go: http://www.bostonhand.com/thumbexercises.html
i admit, not the most original...but maybe a cry-me-a-river pic of justin timberlake instead?
I admit though. If you were to not play the game for a week or so, then take on a boss like Thardus...you will be playing thumb-gymnastics. However, i feel from a straight-playthough, the game does a pretty good job have slowly introducing new attributes so that you get a feel for using them.
Shogmaster
Member
Chrono said:
The game has shooting. And it's in first person. It's a goddamned FPS. Just one with shitty controls.
That's gameplay distinction, not control scheme. "First Person Shooter" is a game catagorization based on camera/control scheme. But Nintendo fans seem to make a point to confuse that fact.
You can do the same with a more traditional FPS control scheme that lets you look anywhere you want, and make you aim by yourself, you know, like a real gamer.
WOW. You never played FPS much, have you? If all your skill is aiming, you won't be near the top in the rankings.
This helps me to illustrate that this wierd wacky distinction between a "regular" FPS and MP is from your typical Nintendo console only fanboys that are just scared to play FPS like the rest of the gaming world does by controling the camera when aiming. You guys make this stupid arbitray distiction in hopes to hide your fear of a more complex (but far more capable) control scheme by turning it into a gamplay argument. So fucking transparent......
I have not been following the discussion for the last few pages so Im sorry if this has been said. I just wanted to add my 2 cent.
2 cents don't gets you much as it used to, apparently......
Scanning aside, a lot of people (including the designers, apparently) felt the control scheme complemented the focus of basic Metroid gameplay where exploration and platforming taking precedence over gunplay. Of course, not everyone was very fond of it, preferring more traditonal controls. FPA, FPS, adventure, shooter, blah blah blah blah blah. Not everyone that likes Prime sucks at/dislikes traditional FPS. Not everyone that likes traditional FPS sucks at/dislikes Prime. The whole argument is fucking old. Big deal. Move on. Jesus fucking Christ....
Buggy Loop
Member
Ristamar said:
The only post that makes sense in the past few pages, thumbs up.
Shogmaster
Member
Ristamar said:
If the goal was superior exloration and platforming, why in the hell did they bother presenting the game in first person? I think that was really stupid decision. The game should have been third person, like Zelda. I can at least forgive simplified aiming in that perspective.
I guess they felt that the visor thing was important enough gameplay element to sacrifice a logical camera view for.
The game is an emperor without clothes for me.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
HOLYFUCK! The new screens DEG posted are REALLY shit hot. Haven't seen them before but definitely not too many games look like those on the market.
:drools:
Aniticipation x 1000000
:drools:
Aniticipation x 1000000
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Shogmaster said:
I'm glad you're not a gamedesigner.
In the first game I got tired of having to switch beams, especially towards the end, because enemies dressed themselves in different colors. Aren't you supposed to have a "kill everything" weapon by then? I want to feel freakin' powerful at that point in the game.
But I'll admit it could've been worse, had they forced you to enter the pause screen for switching beams all the time.
But I'll admit it could've been worse, had they forced you to enter the pause screen for switching beams all the time.
Buggy Loop
Member
Shogmaster said:
Immersion
I cant believe i even have to explain this, the sole purpose of a first person VIEW is for character immersion. It worked for old D&D games, for PC adventure games, PC puzzle games ala myst, racing games, RPGs like morrowind/everquest and the list goes on and on.
First person view =\ First person shooter, its only a freaking camera point of view. A logical camera view you say? Whats the difference between a camera 1 feet and a half behind her head and actually seeing throught her eyes? Does it REALLY matter in a visual sense? Peoples are so quick to jump on the "3rd person" bandwagon without even thinking for a moment, how would it have controlled? I'll give you two options, ala RE4 which is basicly metroid prime in 3rd person or gunvalkyrie, which i dont think i have to remind you how well it was received gameplay mechanic wise. Mario/zelda type of control? No, DMC? Hell no. Should have been like zelda you say? Are you forgetting that 3/4 of the time in 3d zelda games you play as a young link who barely takes any space on the screen? And when he's adult, he's not really that big either since he's a flimsy elf anyway. Samus is much bigger. Not to mention that zelda always takes place in vast environments, even the claustrophobic places in oot are 2 times larger and taller than MP's typical hall.
But why the fuck should i care about naysayers anyway, there were thousands like you when metroid prime was announced that it would be a first person, and retro pretty much bitchslapped 99% of them when they released the game. Of course, there's always someone that will bitch, someone that will make a huge deal out of a game they supposedly "dont care about", there's peoples that always need something to bitch about, if retro would have changed the controls, some would have bitched, if they would have made it in 3rd person, they would bitch, they were bitching that it didnt have multiplayer, now that its there in mp2, they bitch about it, see a pattern? While the majority of the media will score MP as one of this gen's best and the majority of gamers enjoy this gem, having a blast playing it.
crimsonheadGCN
Banned
Deg said:
I really like this enviroment, looks better than anything that was in the first one.
This quarter is so going to rock because of this game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andres, and Half-Life 2 / Counter-Strike: Source.
Edit: Doh, wrong pic
Shogmaster said:
Wtf, Retro THEMSELVES stated that they specifically TRIED OUT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, and they felt that the first person perspective worked the best in the engine they designed. Is it that hard to understand?
And don't give me that bull about the visor being incorporated as a "substitute" for a "logical" camera view. The two aspects are COMPLETELLY unrelated to one another, and if you have such a problem with the whole visor/scanning idea, hey, guess what? YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT EXCEPT FOR THE .1% OF ITEMS THAT YOU NEED TO SCAN!
I've said it before, I'll say it again: People Always Need A Reason To Bitch About Nintendo
Shogmaster
Member
Buggy Loop said:
WTF, dude. Immersion?!? That's such a lame reason to do first person post year 2000. Was Splinter cell not "immersive"? Celda? Countless 3rd person PS2 games including MGS? Immersion should come from gameplay in this day and age.
1st person is best for shooters in 3D space because you have unobstructed view of things you are shooting at. That's the real reason to do 1st person in this day and age. Christ.
What's that big honkin thing on the right arm of samus? And what do you do with it? I don't think it's a hair dryer.
For a platform game, are you kidding me?!?
That paragraph shows the exact flaw in your thinking. Have you not played Splinter Cell? That game has 3rd person camera, yet employs the "tradtional FPS" controls. The notion that 3rd person or 1st limits you to certain control scheme just shows your limited thinking. Its a seperate issue.
MP if indeed was designed for heavy platforming, I say it should have been 3rd person because you can see where the hell your character is in relation to where you are jumping! it has nothing to do with controls. But since they decided to do first person instead (god knows why), it should have employed less stilted controls to better deal with the 1st person camera.
Only in your minds. The rest of us that played PC games like Half Life, and XBox games like Halo, Splinter Cell etc. doesn't think that it's the second coming like you Nintendorks.
I am being totally honest when I say, I would have played MP all the way through and probably loved it if the controls was fixed. I even dealt with RE Zero on the GC for cryin out loud! Why in the hell wouldn't I have embraced MP? Just because it's on the GC? Fuck no.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I <3 Shogmaster and his thoughts and analysis on MP1. MP's controls are fucking ridiculously and abitrarily foisted on people. Sure, you can get into the game and play it fine with them, but not everyone appreciates the forced nature of the setup. I certainly didn't. It felt too constrictive and, well, contrived, IMHO. That's all I'm going to say. I'll just have to rent MP2E to find out if my opinion has changed.
Arent controls in every game "foisted" on people? Strafing is too hard... meh. When do you strafe in fps games? When your frigin circling an enemy.. in MP nothing is easier, cause it does it for you!! And thats the point, this game isnt about leet fps skills, you want to play a fpshooter play UT, MP isnt one, and neither is Morrowind, but alas they all have a first person camera scheme.
MightyHedgehog
Member
DaMan121 said:
Perhaps, I'll elaborate on my opinion...or not. I'm simply not going to argue my opinion with other opinions on this matter. I'll just say that I didn't find the control-scheme and the gameplay based on that to be enjoyable. It was a hindrance more than anything else. It's a shame, I suppose. I do love a lot of things about MP, but most of those things are what makes up the classic Metroid gameplay and its universe...not necessarily what was added/changed for this 3D series. I guess I'll probably just stick to the 2D games for the time being.
Seriously. Arguing that Metroid Prime is a FPS for 'kiddies' is as dumb as PC traditionalists arguing Halo is inferior for having to be played on a joystick.
Just because something takes a different approach that you aren't neccesarily accustomed or in favor to, doesn't make it bad.
Quite simply, the control scheme featured in Metroid Prime works well, and fits it's design. It isn't a traditional run and gun shooter - even though some people seem to think it is and hold it to unwarranted scrutiny.
Just because something takes a different approach that you aren't neccesarily accustomed or in favor to, doesn't make it bad.
Quite simply, the control scheme featured in Metroid Prime works well, and fits it's design. It isn't a traditional run and gun shooter - even though some people seem to think it is and hold it to unwarranted scrutiny.
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