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Metroid Prime 3 slated for Revolution launch - Pulled footage from E3
- Thread starter SantaC
- Start date
ToyMachine228
Member
Seriously, that's not Revolution footage. Iwata said we would be "wowed" by the graphics WHEN we see them. As in, we haven't seen them yet.
I think it's funny how initially Nintendo was getting smack talk for not showing any specs/visuals...when the specs/visuals for the competing hardware are bloated & pre-rendered. When Mr. Miyamoto answered that question it made alot of sense. Why should Nintendo show anything if the hardware/kits aren't finalized. And why was Nintendo being hounded for not showing anything when what Sony & MS have shown are nice, but questionable as to what form they're in.
I think Nintendo is ultimatly not gonna have super-powerful/expensive hardware, but it'll be optimized for what they think is best/cheapest for the game-maker and game-player alike. For instance, on paper X-BOX probably blew GCN away in alot of area's, but GCN was built for effeciency and thusly performed just as well as X-BOX in most respects. I'm gonna say Nintendo is going for a (slower, but cost effective and quite capable) multi-core CPU to make coding for ports from other systems easier, a specially optimized GPU (perhaps keeping in mind photo-realistic interactive pre-rendered graphics*, stereo-scopic visuals & HDTV output), and supporting processors for dedicated physics (keep in mind the controller interface could be something special so this may be needed) and sound (so as not to tax the CPU from it's work on AI & math, etc.) then top it all off with enough fast (keeping load times down) memory to keep ports from suffering too much.
Why go all out on something like the EE or The Cell if it's ultimatly going to be hindered by a GPU that can't keep up? Why go for powerful off-the-shelf PC parts that were made for multimedia instead of just gaming? Why fret so much over power when really ~WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO~ is how much time/money/effort/resources a game-maker is going to put into their game and not how technically marvellous the hardware is?
*I think this is something Nintendo and other game makers should dable with more. Look at movie special effects and even CG animation...those beautiful backgrounds aren't all rendered pixel by pixel in real time...they're pre-generated. I'm not saying that game-makers should delibratly do this all the time, but why waste so much on rendering every detail in real time (you know movie CG doesn't do it) when you can take "short cuts" that would give more artistic realism to games and be cheaper & less taxing on the hardware? How are game graphics ever going to be so "photo realistic" when they aren't real photos? This could be what Mr. Iwata meant by reaching a point where graphics sorta come to a hault.
I think Nintendo is ultimatly not gonna have super-powerful/expensive hardware, but it'll be optimized for what they think is best/cheapest for the game-maker and game-player alike. For instance, on paper X-BOX probably blew GCN away in alot of area's, but GCN was built for effeciency and thusly performed just as well as X-BOX in most respects. I'm gonna say Nintendo is going for a (slower, but cost effective and quite capable) multi-core CPU to make coding for ports from other systems easier, a specially optimized GPU (perhaps keeping in mind photo-realistic interactive pre-rendered graphics*, stereo-scopic visuals & HDTV output), and supporting processors for dedicated physics (keep in mind the controller interface could be something special so this may be needed) and sound (so as not to tax the CPU from it's work on AI & math, etc.) then top it all off with enough fast (keeping load times down) memory to keep ports from suffering too much.
Why go all out on something like the EE or The Cell if it's ultimatly going to be hindered by a GPU that can't keep up? Why go for powerful off-the-shelf PC parts that were made for multimedia instead of just gaming? Why fret so much over power when really ~WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO~ is how much time/money/effort/resources a game-maker is going to put into their game and not how technically marvellous the hardware is?
*I think this is something Nintendo and other game makers should dable with more. Look at movie special effects and even CG animation...those beautiful backgrounds aren't all rendered pixel by pixel in real time...they're pre-generated. I'm not saying that game-makers should delibratly do this all the time, but why waste so much on rendering every detail in real time (you know movie CG doesn't do it) when you can take "short cuts" that would give more artistic realism to games and be cheaper & less taxing on the hardware? How are game graphics ever going to be so "photo realistic" when they aren't real photos? This could be what Mr. Iwata meant by reaching a point where graphics sorta come to a hault.
So they got to pimp their wares on all hardware possible.DrGAKMAN said:
Gamecube wasn't finalized at spaceworld 200 and they showed footage.
Man just before replying to this I got confused if it was spaceworld 2000 or 2001 (the past 5-6 years are like one blur to me...) and googled a bit. I found this:
http://www.planetgamecube.com/event.cfm?action=profile&id=3
It brought back awesome, awesome memories of seeing the Gamecube for the first time. Its controller. And GAMES! Lots of games! I think I've seen the Zelda part of the video at least 50 times. :lol
That's how nintendo's E3 should've been. and if they were not going to do that, then do not show the hardware. Do not talk about games and confirm smash bros. and whatever. Do not reveal other stuff like the downloadable classics plan. You either talk about your new console and REALLY reveal what it's all about or just tell us to wait. I wouldn't have been so angry at their conference if they told us that it's not revolution's time. They had to leak the console's design, and the online plan. With those leaks, who would've guessed those two bits of info were pretty much the ONLY stuff we're getting?
Ok I forgot what I was talking about. :lol
I gotta promise myself, this is the last rant.
blackadde said:
well reggie said today that the rev controler would work on all the backward compatible games, so obviously it is capable of controling normal games that have normal things like running and jumping in them.. also it's a safe bet that it can be used to simulate button presses for at least as many buttons as the gamecube has. so you just create it like a normal game and then adjust your interface when you find out about the controller. it's sounding like that even though the rev controller may be radical, whatever wierd feature it sports does not limit it's functionality for normal gameplay. Reggie even seemed to be bragging that it was especially versatile and that was one of the revolutionary things about it.
Chrono said:
I think the hardware was closer to realization then than they are now for Revolution, but I get your point. But at the same time, I thought about that and while it was "cool" to see the GCN's visual's for the first time, they led to some of the bigger let-downs later on.
-Luigi's mansion- I like this game alot, and I think most people liked it, but more people wanted MARIO at launch, not his brother
-Metroid- what was shown was exciting, but so far from what it actually ended up, Nintendo had to spend months fixing that problem
-Link vs Ganon- made us think that's what we were getting and set us up for a big let down when the REAL game ended up being cel shaded
-Star Wars- beautiful, one of the few things there that actually turned out to be a a real game
-Wave Race- same
-PokeMon demo- never ended up turning into anything did it?
-Joanna Dark looked like a N64 render, but still got us hyped, too bad RARE never delivered (and even with MS backing them now, they still don't seem to be delivering)
So overall...those demo's that were shown got all our hopes up WAY too high and led to problems later on. I'd rather Nintendo show real games that ARE real and who's developement is going smoothly rather than some slapped together hype-train nonsence.
Chrono said:
From listenning to everyone's explaination of the conference I'm convinced Sony took Nintendo by surprize and that's why they put did "funny" skits at the last minute instead of putting together a Revolution unveiling...'cos they were stalling. They knew they had to show something though...something to let the world know they were still making a new system...a system that doesn't look like a toy either. If they had shown nothing they know they would've hounded by their fans and naysayers alike.
Should they maybe have shown more...yes...if the system were launching this year. However, it's not coming out 'til next year so likely next year is when we'll have a E3 20004-like system unveiling. By then they will have finalized hardware & kits, sought out support and got feedback from third parties, they'll know how to better shine in the spotlight that will be all there's next year. I expect an impressive unveiling next year like the NDS had last year. Remember, most people thought the NDS was gonna suck complete ass...I mean what was Nintendo calling it: "hetero geneous goods with a conglomerations of hardware/software that maybe a 1/2 dozen people will be excited about"...instead we got interveiws with the top of the industry praising the NDS, a full explaination of all it's great features, software in developement and an awesome presentation...all for a product that alot of people thought was going to be the next Virtual Boy 'cos no one (even the developers who finally got ahold of it less than a month before unveiling) knew what to expect. Plus Nintendo confidently said, oh it's playable tomorrow and coming out later this year. I expect the same thing for Nintendo Revolution next year.
ThongyDonk
Banned
okay
XB360 launches November this year.
Gets its first showing In May 2005
PS3 comes out Spring 2006, won't be another E3 or at least hardly anytime after the next E3 before its released so showed it off.
Rev not out til prob same time as XB360 BUT the following year, so if they show it off next year they have done nothing any different from M$.
Also why is SE so interested in deving for the REV?
All its old games downloadable for play by new users = $$$$$
Many will follow suit if they can make money outta this for no production costs..
XB360 launches November this year.
Gets its first showing In May 2005
PS3 comes out Spring 2006, won't be another E3 or at least hardly anytime after the next E3 before its released so showed it off.
Rev not out til prob same time as XB360 BUT the following year, so if they show it off next year they have done nothing any different from M$.
Also why is SE so interested in deving for the REV?
All its old games downloadable for play by new users = $$$$$
Many will follow suit if they can make money outta this for no production costs..
Crankenstein
Banned
DrGAKMAN said:
I could not have written it better. Thumbs up.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was footage from the Rev. I Samus model in the MP games have been pretty amazing, so I don't think reusing it is a bad thing at all. I expect the next gen MP to have more advanced environments and more advanced creature models, stuff that is no there is the little teaser.
Yes Gakman, I too I liked Miyamoto's response to the spec debate in the IGN interview:
You have to kind of respect the determination to stick to principles and not get involved with the spec war despite the pressure to do so. Clearly, they are going to be doing exactly the same thing they did with the GC when they released that 6-12 million pps figure versus XBox and PS2s's hundreds of millions of pps. Interestingly, I haven't heard as much poly talk from those competitors this time.
Also, I don't think it's so peculiar that they are using GC dev kits for early rev games. Wasn't MS using some Mac-like hardware becuase full XBox360 kits weren't ready? Aren't these the things that are supposedly 25-30% of XBox360's final power? GC and Rev will in all likelihood be very similar architecturally becuase they have the same CPU, GPU and memory manufacturer. I don't think it's strange that they are using GC dev kits at this point.
You have to kind of respect the determination to stick to principles and not get involved with the spec war despite the pressure to do so. Clearly, they are going to be doing exactly the same thing they did with the GC when they released that 6-12 million pps figure versus XBox and PS2s's hundreds of millions of pps. Interestingly, I haven't heard as much poly talk from those competitors this time.
Also, I don't think it's so peculiar that they are using GC dev kits for early rev games. Wasn't MS using some Mac-like hardware becuase full XBox360 kits weren't ready? Aren't these the things that are supposedly 25-30% of XBox360's final power? GC and Rev will in all likelihood be very similar architecturally becuase they have the same CPU, GPU and memory manufacturer. I don't think it's strange that they are using GC dev kits at this point.
Why should it be strange? The way Iwata was talking yesterday it looks like folks who have worked with the GC environment should be right at home. I'm not an expert or anything on these kinds of things, but it sounds like he was suggesting developers don't have to wait on dev kits to get started.
Azure Dream
Member
Sho Nuff said:
It confusingly looked the same when it was fuzzy on the screen (particularly for those of us following along via the stream) and shown so quickly, but the close-up shot of Samus posted earlier in this thread shows why: They literally upgraded the exact same Samus design, just with more detail. Which makes a lot of sense, but for showing off a next gen product, people expect to see something dramatically different. With the Samus model, they took what were effective texture tricks, and translated them into real polygons. Unfortunately, the texture tricks were good enough previously, so it didn't look that different to us. I think showing off a complex-looking Metroid, and then a swarm of them all at once would've been more effective.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Diffense said:
this is a point everyone ignores
NINTENDO ALWAYS UNDERPLAYS THEIR HARDWARE
the GC number is silly, considering Rogue Squadron a launch game was doing 16 million polys a second and Rogue leader was doing about double that
GaimeGuy said:
That's a good point. No one has truly tapped the GCN's power...or the X-BOX's for that matter. Power is one thing, but it has to do MORE with how much effort developers are willing to put into their projects. When a developer really tries with visuals we get games like RE4, Baten Kaitos, Zelda, Metroid Prime, Rogue Squadron, Crystal Chronicals, etc. Same thing with PS2...with the RIGHT developer giving proper effort even it can come up with comparitivly beautiful graphics like in MGS3 & God of War. Look in the past too, some of the better looking games on systems came in their twilight year...SNES had DKC, NES had SMBros. 3 and so on.
So let's say the current RE4 or Zelda were done on a system with three times the power AND built more efficiently. This doesn't mean just more horespower or better visuals...we're talking about upped bandwidth, memory, resolution, frame rates, decreased load times and bottlenecks and overall better, more obtainable goals. So yeah, not "as powerful" when it comes to raw numbers, but power that (with the right effort) is more easily (and cheaply) obtained. And the visuals may only LOOK three times better than GCN visuals, but that's not a detriment to it's overall power. What if Nintendo focused the technology on less graphics but more more on better AI, physics, animations, resolutions, frame rates, etc. More characters on screen, longer draw distances, more interactive environments, etc...
The average Joe (the bulk of where Sony makes their money) is not gonna be able to tell the difference unless a developer purposly does shitty port jobs...and even then, even if it don't look as good it won't matter all that much in the end. I remember alot of people were hyped about SF on Genisis when, (to me, at the time) it looked vastly inferior to the SNES versions...but do things like that matter to most players in the end? The average Joe thought PS1 looked better than N64 'cos it had FMV capabilities for instance. Hell, Sony has wowed people again with PS3 "games"...
I really think Nintendo should concentrate on making things like pre-rendered backgrounds/graphics and CG FMV movies alot easier to pull off on their system, just to keep smaller developers "in the game" with the "big boys" in regards to visuals. Making some games look awesome here and there is fine, but I think what's better for the industry is making it easier & cheaper for the developer to reach higher, but more obtainable goals so they concentrate more on lasting gameplay, better art and more catching ideas instead of slaving themselves over visuals.
Maybe the Revolution doesn't need all that much more power if it has something like a unique interface, 3D stereoscopic graphics or a higher concentration on CG & pre-rendered art...or...all three?
Just because it takes place on multiple planets doesn't mean it needs to also include lame flying stages, or even anything in transition at all. It could be just like Jet Force Gemini, you see the ship take off and then it lands elsewhere. No biggie.Gribbix said:
MP needs a drastic change. They can keep it with the classic gameplay on DS/Game Boy, and that's great, but if they're gonna improve elsewhere, I agree with most of what was written in the polls.
Samus is a bounty hunter. She hunts things down and gets paid to do it. We should be seeing the colder side of her. I mean, she kinda got sucked into the whole Mother Brain/Metroid thing and stuck with it because someone decided she should be a hero.
So yeah, you'd get paid for these missions, and you can buy upgrades for your weapons (and still find new upgrades, mind you), new additions to her suit to make her jump higher, her ship fly faster, and other things.
Ratchet & Clank: UYA really did a good job with its third person mode, and I think Nintendo should shamelessly rip off the FPS-like controls for it, if they can't come up with another one. That plus really good level design would fucking rock.
Samus is a bounty hunter. She hunts things down and gets paid to do it. We should be seeing the colder side of her. I mean, she kinda got sucked into the whole Mother Brain/Metroid thing and stuck with it because someone decided she should be a hero.
So yeah, you'd get paid for these missions, and you can buy upgrades for your weapons (and still find new upgrades, mind you), new additions to her suit to make her jump higher, her ship fly faster, and other things.
Ratchet & Clank: UYA really did a good job with its third person mode, and I think Nintendo should shamelessly rip off the FPS-like controls for it, if they can't come up with another one. That plus really good level design would fucking rock.
for the 3d metroid games. I love the first person element. I love the exploration and i love the way it sticks to it's old school roots for the basic game progression... The only changes i want to see next gen are better graphics and a planet that feels like a planet... i want a much bigger game that takes place on a much larger landmass that's more open. I want more above ground elements to go with the underground elements... like if i find a river i should be able to follow it a long ways and come to a waterfall with a cave behind it that leads to some upgrade.... but maybe i can't get the upgrade because i need another upgrade first...
basicly take the MP gameplay and put it in a world about the size of morrowind (maybe a little smaller), with an underground system that is interconnected. I think that would kick ass. It might be a little overwhelming for some people, but i want to EXPLORE and i don't mind a little backtracking... if the backtracking becomes annoying they can put in some kind of instant travel.
basicly take the MP gameplay and put it in a world about the size of morrowind (maybe a little smaller), with an underground system that is interconnected. I think that would kick ass. It might be a little overwhelming for some people, but i want to EXPLORE and i don't mind a little backtracking... if the backtracking becomes annoying they can put in some kind of instant travel.
God's Hand
Banned
This is the same thing that happened last gen. Nintendo said Dolphin was so-many-times faster than N64 and said it pushes 6-12 million polygons. All this while Sony was saying ~70 million and Microsoft with over 100 million. We all know how this ended.
I trust Nintendo to deliver competent hardware. It seems like PS3 and Xbox are going to be the most expensive mainstream consoles to date. Nintendo is going to offer a comparable solution when all is said and done at a cheaper price. It's the differences, innovations, and games that will separate everyone apart from each other. And so far, Xbox 360 and PS3 are the same things.
I trust Nintendo to deliver competent hardware. It seems like PS3 and Xbox are going to be the most expensive mainstream consoles to date. Nintendo is going to offer a comparable solution when all is said and done at a cheaper price. It's the differences, innovations, and games that will separate everyone apart from each other. And so far, Xbox 360 and PS3 are the same things.
Krowley said:
I agree about having a larger world that feels like a planet, but if they do that they should include various modes of transport, like the horse in Zelda LP. And to be honest, I don't think there will be that much difference between the three consoles, nothing drastic in terms of actually experience anyway, and I don't think the masses really care about the specs war. Sony's strength and Nintendo's current weakness is in the brand name and image, that is gonna make the most difference.
citrus lump
Banned
In that Metroid Prime 3 pic, it looks like she has a creepy clown like smile :lol