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[LordOcidax]

Anything with a first-person view and a shooting mechanic classifies it as an FPS. Having a lock-on system doesn't mean much in that regard, it's just a diifferent kind of shooter than the usual.

Metroid Prime is a First Person Adventure game not a First Person Shooter, stated by Retro Studios.

Metroid a First Person Adventure? - IGN

Last week IGNcube reported that Retro Studios forthcoming GameCube…

www.ign.com

 

[kevboard]

No single player shooter on console controlled like Halo did before Halo. Halo was the first major game that proved how well FPS games could work on console.

the only thing Halo brought to the table was the then new way the aim assist worked. every other element was done before by various games.
nearly every N64 shooter has a setting where you move with the D-Pad and aim with the Stick (or a left handed version where you walk with the C-Buttons)
some N64 shooters in fact had no alternative to that setup and stuff like Quake 2 had it on by default and even had sensitivity sliders.

Go play Goldeneye today and tell me it plays great. Come on lol

it does, if you emulate it and boost the framerate... the main issue of the game was the framerate. play the game with the 1.2 settings and it plays almost like a modern shooter.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Metroid Prime is a First Person Adventure game not a First Person Shooter, stated by Nintendo himself.

Metroid a First Person Adventure? - IGN

Last week IGNcube reported that Retro Studios forthcoming GameCube…

www.ign.com

Same thing, they just removed the word shooter to make it flow better. It's obviously a shooter. It's the main mechanic.

 

[LordOcidax]

Same thing, they just removed the word shooter to make it flow better. It's obviously a shooter. It's the main mechanic.

Not at all… Do you consider Portal a FPS?

 

[kpopSuperstar]

I get that... it's just super weird and doesn't make much sense compared to how other games are categorized. it also doesn't tell you anything about the type of game it is.

if I told you ReCore is a 3rd Person shooter, what would be the first thing most people would picture? probably something like Gears of War or maybe Max Payne... meanwhile it's essentially a 3D Platformer with action adventure elements. but, the main attack in ReCore is shooting at people in 3D from a 3rd person perspective. it also has a lock-on btw, just like prime... very similar in that regard.

so me telling someone ReCore is an action adventure with heavy platforming would instantly give way more meaningful information about the game, than saying it's a 3rd person shooter. calling it a 3rd person shooter might in fact be misleading to some when they then play it after I described it as such.

Well, Recore is a technically a third person shooter adventure game, and I think it describes the game well enough.

But games are different, and genres don't always fit that well.

It's not that serious. Developers struggle to label their games at times too.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Not at all… Do you consider Portal a FPS?

You could.

But generally, it's more a tool for puzzles, not for shooting enemies like Metroid.

 

[kevboard]

Well, Recore is a technically a third person shooter adventure game, and I think it describes the game well enough.

But games are different, and genres don't always fit that well.

It's not that serious. Developers struggle to label their games at times too.

it's not a shooter at all. it's an Action Adventure Platformer where you shoot. the shooting part is not even worth mentioning tbh. that's how unimportant it is to how the game is designed. meanwhile you can't describe Call of Duty as anything else but a shooter because it has no real other elements than shooting enemies.

in ReCore the by far most standout element is the platforming. you could replace the gun with a sword and it would essentially not change the game in any meaningful way.
if you told someone that you're looking for a good third person shooter, and if that someone told you they know a really cool third person shooter, and gave you ReCore, you'd be pissed.
but if you replaced third person shooter in this conversation with adventure platformer, you'd be delighted if they gave you ReCore (in its current fixed state of course... not the launch version lol)

 

[tr1p1ex]

Same thing, they just removed the word shooter to make it flow better. It's obviously a shooter. It's the main mechanic.

Metroidvania game. Definition doesn't change because it goes to 3d.

The genre is named after the game. LIke Rollerblades or Tivo or Kleenex.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

it's not a shooter at all. it's an Action Adventure Platformer where you shoot. the shooting part is not even worth mentioning tbh. that's how unimportant it is to how the game is designed. meanwhile you can't describe Call of Duty as anything else but a shooter because it has no real other elements than shooting enemies.

in ReCore the by far most standout element is the platforming. you could replace the gun with a sword and it would essentially not change the game in any meaningful way.
if you told someone that you're looking for a good third person shooter, and if that someone told you they know a really cool third person shooter, and it turned out to be ReCore, you'd be pissed.

It doesn't matter if it wouldn't be the sort of shooter they want or not, shooting is still a core part of the combat in Recore. It's still a shooter, alongside other things. You run around with a weapon and blast robots non-stop.

You seem to think that a game ONLY needs to do one thing to fit into the shooter genre, but it only means that some games occupy multiple genres.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Metroidvania game. Definition doesn't change because it goes to 3d.

The genre is named after the game. LIke Rollerblades or Tivo or Kleenex.

Metroidvania is an umbrella term for the game design approach, it doesn't describe the gameplay. 2D Metroid is a action adventure game. Castlevania is an RPG action adventure.

 

[LordOcidax]

You could.

But generally, it's more a tool for puzzles, not for shooting enemies like Metroid.

The main focus of the prime series is exploration and puzzles, not shooting enemies. Call of Duty or DOOM the main focus is shooting enemies. Not even Retro considers Prime as a FPS. 2D Metroid are not the same as Contra games and in both games you shoot to enemies.

 

[kevboard]

It doesn't matter if it wouldn't be the sort of shooter they want or not, shooting is still a core part of the combat in Recore. It's still a shooter, alongside other things. You run around with a weapon and blast robots non-stop.

You seem to think that a game ONLY needs to do one thing to fit into the shooter genre, but it only means that some games occupy multiple genres.

then why don't we call Zelda a slasher? because it's irrelevant to the type of game it is that the main weapon is a sword. just like the shooting in ReCore is irrelevant to the type of game it is.
if we added every aspect of a game in the genre description then Wind Waker HD would be a 3rd-person-action-adventure-1st-person-shooter-3rd-person-shooter-sailing-fishing-platforming-stealth-slasher.

genres generally focus on the main design element. which is why Axiom Verge is a metroidvania, and not a 2D-Jump-n-Shoot-Action-Adventure-Exploration-Game. the last half is covered by metroidvaina, and the first half isn't as relevant as the second one.

 

[kevboard]

Metroidvania is an umbrella term for the game design approach, it doesn't describe the gameplay. 2D Metroid is a action adventure game. Castlevania is an RPG action adventure.

metroidvania is a subgenre of action adventure where the focus is on exploring an interconnected map and unlocking new paths through acquiring new abilities. it's not an umbrella term.
Castlevania Symphony of the Night is generally called an igavania, which is a further sub-subgenre if you will, of metroidvania. an igavania has RPG elements like random loot and stat level ups, in the framework of a metroidvania.

action adventure is the umbrella term here.

 

[LordOcidax]

metroidvania is a subgenre of action adventure where the focus is on exploring an interconnected map and unlocking new paths through acquiring new abilities. it's not an umbrella term.

Castlevania Symphony of the Night is generally called an igavania, which is a further sub-subgenre if you will, of metroidvania. an igavania has RPG elements like random loot and stat level ups, in the framework of a metroidvania.

By his logic even Elders Scroll games are FPS when you play as an archer.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

The main focus of the prime series is exploration and puzzles, not shooting enemies. Call of Duty or DOOM the main focus is shooting enemies. Not even Retro considers Prime as a FPS. 2D Metroid are not the same as Contra games and in both games you shoot to enemies.

The main focus is shooting, you do it way more than anything else. Lock on and shoot is the main gameplay system you use.

And that's not the point, you don't need to solely focus on one thing to be a shooter. You can still be a shooter and still do adventure and platforming.

Retro called it a first person adventure because they wanted to make a point about the adventure and platforming to make sure people wouldn't think it's Halo inspired. They obviously know it's a shooter as well.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

then why don't we call Zelda a slasher? because it's irrelevant to the type of game it is that the main weapon is a sword. just like the shooting in ReCore is irrelevant to the type of game it is.
if we added every aspect of a game in the genre description then Wind Waker HD would be a 3rd-person-action-adventure-1st-person-shooter-3rd-person-shooter-sailing-fishing-platforming-stealth-slasher.

genres generally focus on the main design element. which is why Axiom Verge is a metroidvania, and not a 2D-Jump-n-Shoot-Action-Adventure-Exploration-Game. the last half is covered by metroidvaina, and the first half isn't as relevant as the second one.

Yes, but when it comes to Recore and Metroid, shooting is a big part of both those games. I don't know why you say shooting is irrelevant in Recore, because I played it last year and you run around in the dunes and wrecks and shoot different colored robots for most of the game. It's a core part of it, even if it has platforming as well.

 

[LordOcidax]

The main focus is shooting, you do it way more than anything else. Lock on and shoot is the main gameplay system you use.

And that's not the point, you don't need to solely focus on one thing to be a shooter. You can still be a shooter and still do adventure and platforming.

Retro called it a first person adventure because they wanted to make a point about the adventure and platforming to make sure people wouldn't think it's Halo inspired. They obviously know it's a shooter as well.

You need to shoot in Portal too, that doesn't make the game a FPS. By your logic almost every game in the first person perspective is a shooter then. You are mixing the medium to interact with the world with the main focus of the game.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

metroidvania is a subgenre of action adventure where the focus is on exploring an interconnected map and unlocking new paths through acquiring new abilities. it's not an umbrella term.
Castlevania Symphony of the Night is generally called an igavania, which is a further sub-subgenre if you will, of metroidvania. an igavania has RPG elements like random loot and stat level ups, in the framework of a metroidvania.

action adventure is the umbrella term here.

Yeah, subgenre is a better way of describing it I guess.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

You need to shoot in Portal too, that doesn't make the game a FPS. By your logic almost every game in the first person perspective is a shooter then. You are mixing the medium to interact with the world with the main focus of the game.

You don't shoot enemies in portal. It's a tool gun.

Some games have more than one focus and must therefore be categorized across several genres.

 

[LordOcidax]

You don't shoot enemies in portal. It's a tool gun.

Some games have more than one focus and must therefore be categorized across several genres.

But the tool shoot a beam… By your logic is a FPS because you are shooting. Or Playing and Elder Scrolls game as an archer makes the game a FPS too…

 

[tr1p1ex]

Metroidvania is an umbrella term for the game design approach, it doesn't describe the gameplay. 2D Metroid is a action adventure game. Castlevania is an RPG action adventure.

"The genre descriptor refers to gameplay elements: large interconnected non-linear map, item based progression, backtracking, exploration, respawning enemies, action platformer. So, metroid is definitely a Metroidvania."


Wikipedia defines a shooter as a subgenre of action video games where the FOCUS is on the defeat of the character's enemies using ranged weapons given to the player.

Masterclass.com says Metroidvania is a sub-genre focused on exploration.

 

[tr1p1ex]

But the tool shoot a beam… By your logic is a FPS because you are shooting. Or Playing and Elder Scrolls game as an archer makes the game a FPS too…

Zelda is a sword fighting game.

 

[LordOcidax]

Zelda is a sword fighting game.

Or could be a third person shooter if you play only with arrows .

 

[kpopSuperstar]

But the tool shoot a beam… By your logic is a FPS because you are shooting. Or Playing and Elder Scrolls game as an archer makes the game a FPS too…

I don't know why you are freaking out here, we are obviously talking guns shooting enemies. Not portal guns or bow and arrows.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Or could be a third person shooter is you play only with arrows .

Damnit my world is upside down.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

"The genre descriptor refers to gameplay elements: large interconnected non-linear map, item based progression, backtracking, exploration, respawning enemies, action platformer. So, metroid is definitely a Metroidvania."


Wikipedia defines a shooter as a subgenre of action video games where the FOCUS is on the defeat of the character's enemies using ranged weapons given to the player.

Masterclass.com says Metroidvania is a sub-genre focused on exploration.

Not sure what you mean by this, as it kind of backs up my point that Metroidvania doesn't explain the gameplay systems used.

 

[LordOcidax]

I don't know why you are freaking out here, we are obviously talking guns shooting enemies. Not portal guns or bow and arrows.

You shoots arrows to enemies in Elder Scrolls. Like i said before, you are mixing the medium that we use to interact with the world with the main purpose of the Metroid Prime that is exploration and puzzles. Metroid prime is a First Person Adventure game. Sub genre Metroidvania.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Not sure what you mean by this, as it kind of backs up my point that Metroidvania doesn't explain the gameplay systems used.

Metroidvania describes the gameplay. Masterclass says the focus is on exploration. Shooter is defined as focusing on long range shooting.

What part you not get? Exploration describes the gameplay. As does backtracking, inter connected map, item progression, respawning enemies, action platformer, ...

Also the best argument I read here still is everyone calls Metroid 2d a Metroidvania game. I mean it's in the name even. They use Metroidvania as a type of genre. And faithfully recreating Metroid in 3d doesn't change the genre.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

You shoots arrows to enemies in Elder Scrolls. Like i said before, you are mixing the medium that we use to interact with the world with the main purpose of the Metroid Prime that is exploration and puzzles. Metroid prime is a First Person Adventure game. Sub genre Metroidvania.

But you use combat in Metroid in almost every room. It's hyper-focused on combat, you shoot all the time. To say that puzzles or exploration is a focus over combat is completely false. The entire screen is covered with a big fucking arm cannon. Have you even played it?

If Skyrim was only playable as an archer in third person, it could be classified as a third person shooter with adventure and RPG elements.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Metroidvania describes the gameplay. Masterclass says the focus is on exploration. Shooter is defined as focusing on long range shooting.

What part you not get? Exploration describes the gameplay. As does backtracking, inter connected map, item progression, respawning enemies, action platformer, ...

Also the best argument I read here still is everyone calls Metroid 2d a Metroidvania game. I mean it's in the name even. They use Metroidvania as a type of genre. And faithfully recreating Metroid in 3d doesn't change the genre.

Exploration is not gameplay. Item progression is not gameplay. Do you know what gameplay means lol?

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Then it should be on par with Metroid Dread, no?

Don't know what that means. Need some translation and/or elaboration.

Dread plays insanely well.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Exploration is not gameplay. Item progression is not gameplay. Do you know what gameplay means lol?

That describes the gameplay. What narrow definition of gameplay do you have in mind?

 

[iHaunter]

Literally looks like Halo? Or just me.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Not at all… Do you consider Portal a FPS?

Or Bioshock

 

[GymWolf]

Don't waste your time people, learn from my mistakes and bail out, it's not worthy.

 

[Robb]

Literally looks like Halo? Or just me.

Lead designer of Halo 4/5 was snatched up by RETRO Studios, so that probably explains it.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

They litterally did the same for Tears of the Kingdom, before realizing people were thinking that if they don't show anything that means the game has nothing to show for, so they tried to put more stuff last second

You are correct, I had forgotten how secretive they were of Tears. But we did get a final hype inducing trailer after the ho-hum reveal showcasing the fusing and building elements of that game. So we are due for a similarly hype inducing trailer for Prime 4 hopefully within a couple weeks.

For the folks whining about the gunplay in Beyond…

Did you play Corruption?

Did you watch the boss fight at the end of the demo?

Do you realize the emphasis they are putting on the GYRO and/or mouse controls?

Lets recap.

Prime 3 Korrupshun featured some of the greatest combat to ever grace a Metroid game. Dare I say on Hard mode it bested many, many FPS games and created a glorious fusion of arcade style light-gun styled aiming with full movement. This was due to the focus on the IR pointer controls and lock-on free aiming. A far more advanced version of the typical down the sights aiming used in most FPS games still to this day.

In nearly every glorious boss battle and many enemy encounters, you had to be able to dash, move, jump, grapple, and shoot down multiple targets within seconds. Take the Rhundas battle for example, which is still an early battle in the game. He has an attack where he shoots out multiple homing ice blasts and after doing this he is chasing after you and shooting bigger ice blasts. Each homing blast has splash damage which will freeze you even if its not a direct hit.

You had to dodge some, shoot the remaining blasts in mid air, and charge towards rundas afterwards and start blasting him. On top of this you needed to utilize and manage the korrupshun mode to deal serious damage.

Prime 4 already shows these mechanics being used at the end of the demo against the boss. Which is a great sign, because it took Prime 3 quite a while longer for the combat to show its potential. They teased it during the first Ridley battle, but that was more on rails since you were fighting him in mid-air.

I think its safe to say Beyond will push these elements of combat in addition to whatever new abilities even further.

 

[tr1p1ex]

i lose my optimism when a game isn't out yet but was teased 3 months after the Switch 1 launched. lol.

 

[Sevyne]

As a massive Metroid fan from the early days of even the nes game, I can tell you that the last thing I give a shit about is the actual shooting. If that was improved would I complain? Nah, not at all, unless it was because they were shifting the franchise in a direction that stripped it of it's exploration/traversal and killing the general vibes.

Just look at Other M. That game stripped Metroid of almost everything people like about the series because they tried to focus more on the action and some super terrible storytelling.

Most of us just want to traverse and explore some cool alien planets with neat tools to get around it. Better gunplay would just be an added bonus at best.

 

[LordOcidax]

As a massive Metroid fan from the early days of even the nes game, I can tell you that the last thing I give a shit about is the actual shooting. If that was improved would I complain? Nah, not at all, unless it was because they were shifting the franchise in a direction that stripped it of it's exploration/traversal and killing the general vibes.

Just look at Other M. That game stripped Metroid of almost everything people like about the series because they tried to focus more on the action and some super terrible storytelling.

Most of us just want to traverse and explore some cool alien planets with neat tools to get around it. Better gunplay would just be an added bonus at best.

Exactly this… Like i said. No Metroid fan is asking for a change.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Someone here has to have enjoyed Other M...

 

[rodrigolfp]

I have to admit I still haven't played MP3.

MP1 was incredible, one of the most beautifully constructed scifi games ever. MP2 was more of the same but cool. But MP3 is still on my backlog all these years later... kind of waiting to get a properly perfected Wii VR emulation before I finally do it.

Did you try it on Dolphin VR?

Anything with a first-person view and a shooting mechanic classifies it as an FPS.

Correct.

But the definition of the game genre is what is the problem. Is FPS really a genre?? I mean, why the perspective matters to classify an FPS (and TPS) but other game genres doesn't matter? Why is not Zelda BOTW classified as "Third person whatever"??

Someone here has to have enjoyed Other M...

,

 

[Hyet]

Shooting is such a small part of Metroid prime that "having better gunplay" would not have too much of an impacto on the overall experience. I would gladly take more combat habilites that make combat more interesting. Lets see what they do with those psi-powers.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Speaking of VR and MP, the Switch 2 is so close to being VR. It sits in front of me on the tabletop. I have a control in each hand. With gryo, stick and mouse ability. For seated VR at least, all that is left is for the screen to leap 18 inches to my face.

 

[Sevyne]

The complaints kind of make me think of people's first impressions of Bloodstained and how they were upset with it's floatiness. The people that game was targeted towards were people who really badly wanted another Castlevania like SotN and the GBA/DS games. All of those games had that floatiness to them, and it was expected to remain that way. Now one could argue over the quality of anything else in that game, but controls were what most expected and wanted to remain intact.

Point is that those that are super into Metroid don't want it to be fucked with, because its usually ends up not being Metroid anymore and total shit.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Shooting is such a small part of Metroid prime that "having better gunplay" would not have too much of an impacto on the overall experience. I would gladly take more combat habilites that make combat more interesting. Lets see what they do with those psi-powers.

It is the thing you do the most on the game after "moving around".

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Someone here has to have enjoyed Other M...

I wanted to like it but I can't do wiimote controls.

 

[pulicat]

Having flashy gunplay isn't going to improve Prime series gameplay at all, but MP4 gunplay is certainly not that bad.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Having flashy gunplay isn't going to improve Prime series gameplay at all, but MP4 gunplay is certainly not that bad.

Braindead lock-on is bad. Very bad.

 

[tr1p1ex]

No one ever asked about the gunplay in Metroid 2d.