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[nkarafo]

It is a very important mechanic if not the most important as the Wii trilogy and Prime Hack proves.

If you choose to not use it on every enemy, that is on you. I shoot at everything that can be killed/destroyed/open.

It's more important in Prime 3 because of all the added Wiimote mechanics, but the game ends up being the worst of the trilogy for that reason.

I'm a huge fan of the franchise, i have finished all games except the Federation crap and the Pinball game. For me, the shooting is the least important thing in these games and certainly not what makes the franchise stand out and give them their identity. It was always about the exploration.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

 

[rodrigolfp]

It's more important in Prime 3 because of all the added Wiimote mechanics, but the game ends up being the worst of the trilogy for that reason.

Not in gameplay/controls.

 

[tr1p1ex]

7 pages of a Metroid prime thread…

Reason 1: This game is going to be bigger than a lot of people thinks.

Reason 2: Switch 2 haters are afraid and jealous of this game.

Reason 3: endless discussion of whether or not it's a shooter.

 

[kevboard]

Reason 3: endless discussion of whether or not it's a shooter.

and the answer is so simple...

YOU ATTACK WITH THE DAMN A BUTTON IN THE FIRST 3 GAMES! literally to deemphasize the shooter similarities...
you can't even manually aim during combat really in the first 2 either.

it's insanity to call these games shooters

 

[GymWolf]

It is a very important mechanic if not the most important as the Wii trilogy and Prime Hack proves.

If you choose to not use it on every enemy, that is on you. I shoot at everything that can be killed/destroyed/open.

Don't waste your time bud, at this point they know nintendo doesn't give a fuck about improving combat in their games no matter how much combat there is in the actual game so they play dumb with these "genre" excuses.

Remember, only pure shooters where you shoot 100% of the time improve their combat, every sequel in every other genre in existence should have the same combat of the first entry, no matter how old or shit it was, this is the way.

(Althought i'm personally super ok with the lock on stuff)

 

[rodrigolfp]

and the answer is so simple...

YOU ATTACK WITH THE DAMN A BUTTON IN THE FIRST 3 GAMES! literally to deemphasize the shooter similarities...
you can't even manually aim during combat really in the first 2 either.

it's insanity to call these games shooters

You can on Wii versions plus to be a shooter ALSO, it just have to have shooting, manually aiming is not required to be a shooter too. It's "shooter", not "aimer".

Don't waste your time bud, at this point they know nintendo doesn't give a fuck about improving combat in their games no matter how much combat there is in the actual game so they play dumb with these "genre" excuses.

Remember, only pure shooters where you shoot 100% of the time improve their combat, every sequel in every other genre in existence should have the same combat of the first entry, no matter how old or shit it was, this is the way.

(Althought i'm personally super ok with the lock on stuff)

By the logic here, the aiming/shooting mechanics don't matter because it's not shooter despite having tons of shooting.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Combat in shooters arguably hasn't improved over the years.

 

[kevboard]

You can on Wii versions plus to be a shooter ALSO, it just have to have shooting, manually aiming is not required to be a shooter too. It's "shooter", not "aimer".

so literally every game that has projectile weapons is a shooter to you?

meaning the genre definition shooter essential loses all meaning in your worldview?

sure... I mean, make it a meaningless definition. you do you

 

[rodrigolfp]

so literally every game that has projectile weapons is a shooter to you?

meaning the genre definition shooter essential loses all meaning in your worldview?

sure... I mean, make it a meaningless definition. you do you

It's ALSO a shooter, yes. Thing that is not the genre of the game.

 

[tr1p1ex]

IT's a fighting game if Samus had this instead of lasers to dispatch enemies and open doors. Totally different!

 

[rodrigolfp]

IT's also a fighting game if Samus had this instead of lasers to dispatch enemies and open doors. Totally different!

Ftfy.

 

[GymWolf]

IT's a fighting game if Samus had this instead of lasers to dispatch enemies and open doors. Totally different!

It would be the ARMS sequel that nobody asked for

 

[kevboard]

It's ALSO a shooter, yes. Thing that is not the genre of the game.

if it's not the genre of the game it's by definition automatically also not a shooter. shooter is a genre.

 

[Hyet]

The Metroid Prime series is not a shooter and gunplay doesn't play that much of a role because combat itself isnt as involved as a FPS because the game is an exploration game. Look at how the game develops for the player in every single entry. Two thirds of the major upgrades you get as you play have to do with enabling you with exploring the enviroment. Does any metroid prime give you grenades? Extra ammo or weapon slots? Can you upgrade the recoil of your weapons? No. They give you visors to scan rooms and solve puzzles. A double jump. A grappling hook. The hability to roll into tiny spaces. A suit that lets you go through the heat.

Even the weapons you get are used mostly for traversal and to enable you to open specific doors. You need crazy gunplay to shoot at doors or are you just trying to fit a complaint where doesn't belong?

 

[rodrigolfp]

if it's not the genre of the game it's by definition automatically also not a shooter. shooter is a genre.

No, it is not. Action, Action/Adventure is a genre. If you jump, shoot, swim, poop on the game, those don't make its genre. Even less the camera/perspective.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Ftfy.

STarting to back slide finally are you? lol.

 

[tr1p1ex]

The two of you can have your own definition of shooter. But then you run into trouble communicating with others. lol.

 

[Hyet]

First person shooter is a genre and it's different from action adventure. CoD is FPS. Indiana Jones is an action adventure. Deus Ex is an action RPG. Metroid Prime is a Metroidvania. All of them are in first person. In all of the you shoot. But you can't lump all of those together. If you do it's just a lack of literacy.

 

[rodrigolfp]

First person shooter is a genre and it's different from action adventure. CoD is FPS. Indiana Jones is an action adventure. Deus Ex is an action RPG. Metroid Prime is a Metroidvania. All of them are in first person. In all of the you shoot. But you can't lump all of those together. If you do it's just a lack of literacy.

So the camera/perspective doesn't matter for action adventures genre, Indiana Jones, Deus EX, Metroid Prime but matters for CoD and the shooting matters on CoD but not in others. Noted.

 

[LordOcidax]

This thread feels like we are in 2002 when Retrostudio said that the game was a FPA not a FPS. Good old times.

 

[rodrigolfp]

This thread feels like we are in 2002 when Retrostudio said that the game was a FPA not a FPS. Good old times.

Fun times.

"It's not a shooter even if shooting is the action you do the most in the game"

 

[Hyet]

So the camera/perspective doesn't matter for action adventures genre, Indiana Jones, Deus EX, Metroid Prime but matters for CoD and the shooting matters on CoD but not in others. Noted.

I reffer you to my other post explaining why Metroid Prime is not an FPS:

The Metroid Prime series is not a shooter and gunplay doesn't play that much of a role because combat itself isnt as involved as a FPS because the game is an exploration game. Look at how the game develops for the player in every single entry. Two thirds of the major upgrades you get as you play have to do with enabling you with exploring the enviroment. Does any metroid prime give you grenades? Extra ammo or weapon slots? Can you upgrade the recoil of your weapons? No. They give you visors to scan rooms and solve puzzles. A double jump. A grappling hook. The hability to roll into tiny spaces. A suit that lets you go through the heat.

Even the weapons you get are used mostly for traversal and to enable you to open specific doors. You need crazy gunplay to shoot at doors or are you just trying to fit a complaint where doesn't belong?

Is any gameplay element in CoD that is not related to combat? No there isn't. Even the quieter moments are there to enable combat buildups later on. The same way combat in Metroid Prime is giving you something to do in between opening the map to dilucidate a path or looking around at rooms.

It's like saying DMC and Zelda belong in the same category because both games feature swords and combat. Well, no. One is centered in combat and the other has combat in it. Different things.

 

[LordOcidax]

Fun times.

"It's not a shooter even if shooting is the action you do the most in the game"

We shoot beams in Portal, that doesn't make portal a FPS.

 

[Germuso]

Next level games should take prime saga, thet know how to make gunplay and good AI.

Retro is doing retro mechanics.

 

[LordOcidax]

Next level games should take prime saga, thet know how to make gunplay and good AI.

Retro is doing retro mechanics.

Retro is doing exactly what Metroid fans want.

 

[Hyet]

Next level games should take prime saga, thet know how to make gunplay and good AI.

Retro is doing retro mechanics.

They did. But we don't talk about it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

We shoot beams in Portal, that doesn't make portal a FPS.

Every time you are shooting portals, it is an FPS. You are shooting something in first person.

It's like saying DMC and Zelda belong in the same category because both games feature swords and combat. Well, no. One is centered in combat and the other has combat in it. Different things.

They are both Action or Action/Adventure games. Doesn't matter the amount of combat.

 

[pulicat]

 

[LordOcidax]

Every time you are shooting portals, it is an FPS. You are shooting something in first person.


They are both Action or Action/Adventure games. Doesn't matter the amount of combat.

 

[tr1p1ex]

YOu can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

 

[Hyet]

Every time you are shooting portals, it is an FPS. You are shooting something in first person.

FPS is a derivative of the action genre. If you are shooting portals to solve logic puzzles is not an FPS, it's a puzzle game. If you shoot portals to kill the enemy it's an FPS.

Not even the final boss in the portal games has combat, so they're puzzle games.

I'm shocked I have to explain this to someone on this forum

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

I mostly agree that the franchise's identity was built around trying to avoid typical FPS controls and gameplay

But they sort of gave that up a bit over time... particularly by introducing all these sections with other humans in the battle, and the increasing bend towards Halo vibe, all of which I consider very bad decisions.

So it does make some sense to evaluate it on its apparent new terms and expect it to be shooter like. But that's a bad situation to begin with.

They need to definitively pick a side, and if they want these big marine-filled battles like in the set-pieces shown in this demo, then go full FPS I guess. But if they want the moody adventure back (as I do), drop all this nonsense and, if anything, try hard to run away from the Halo feel. An in-between compromise doesn't work, it seems like a major hurdle for the series.

 

[LordOcidax]

YOu can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

That's deep.

 

[rodrigolfp]

FPS is a derivative of the action genre. If you are shooting portals to solve logic puzzles is not an FPS, it's a puzzle game. If you shoot portals to kill the enemy it's an FPS.

Not even the final boss in the portal games has combat, so they're puzzle games.

I'm shocked I have to explain this to someone on this forum

I am shocked at you calling something that has shooting in first person "not an FPS". Zero logic in that.

 

[tr1p1ex]

I mostly agree that the franchise's identity was built around trying to avoid typical FPS controls and gameplay

But they sort of gave that up a bit over time... particularly by introducing all these sections with other humans in the battle, and the increasing bend towards Halo vibe, all of which I consider very bad decisions.

So it does make some sense to evaluate it on its apparent new terms and expect it to be shooter like. But that's a bad situation to begin with.

They need to definitively pick a side, and if they want these big marine-filled battles like in the set-pieces shown in this demo, then go full FPS I guess. But if they want the moody adventure back (as I do), drop all this nonsense and, if anything, try hard to run away from the Halo feel. An in-between compromise doesn't work, it seems like a major hurdle for the series.

I don't expect the marine filled battles to be the game.

 

[Hyet]

But they sort of gave that up a bit over time... particularly by introducing all these sections with other humans in the battle, and the increasing bend towards Halo vibe, all of which I consider very bad decisions.

So it does make some sense to evaluate it on its apparent new terms and expect it to be shooter like. But that's a bad situation to begin with.

As far as I remember this sections are the introduction in Metroid Prime 3 and a later moment in the Pirate homeworld where 2 other npc show up in a room after the zone is secured. Total runtime: 30 minutes. The game ~15 hours.
The demo of Metroid Prime 4 also shows an intro like the one in 3 and last about the same, but it's early to call it a sift in direction.

I am shocked at you calling something that has shooting in first person "not an FPS". Zero logic in that.

Dunno, mate. I suggest you get Portal and play it for a while, see If it makes you feel like Bulletstorm or Killzone. Maybe you get it that way.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Lot of assumptions in the thread that shooter mechanics are not improved.

Its been 15 yrs since last MP game. They must've definitely improved shooting after all these years, even if its not apparent in the video.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Dunno, mate. I suggest you get Portal and play it for a while, see If it makes you feel like Bulletstorm or Killzone. Maybe you get it that way.

They don't feel alike because one is more a "Puzzle" game and other are more "Action or Action/Adventure" games. What you shoot on what are nothing alike, but they are still there.

 

[Germuso]

Retro is doing exactly what Metroid fans want.

Donkey kong?

 

[Hyet]

They don't feel alike because one is more a "Puzzle" game and other are more "Action or Action/Adventure" games. The camera/perspective and what you shoot on what are nothing alike, but they are still there.

You're so close...! But they are not "more" of anything. Portal is a straight up puzzle game and the other two are action games, First Person Shooters to be precise.

 

[cireza]

It's trivial in some easier levels but in some others you have to work to access the exit.

It is pretty simple. Hexen requires work. Doom ? Nah.

Shooting in Super Metroid is a main thing too as you also shoot more than anything other than move

Going to disagree here. You don't shoot that much, and most of it is simply to quickly remove an obstacle. You spend a ton of time doing other things.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Portal is a straight up puzzle game

Where you shoot portals in first person. So also an FPS. Simple logic.

 

[CosmicHusky]

I had the opportunity to try the game at Gamescom and have to disappoint you:

It's a B-production, not more than that.

 

[rodrigolfp]

You don't shoot that much

I do.

 

[Hyet]

Where you shoot portals in first person. So also an FPS. Simple logic.

Gotta agree with your last sentence. It is indeed a simple brand of logic.

 

[LordOcidax]

Donkey kong?

You will see when the MP4 reviews drops…

 

[alphachino]

"GC" will never not be GameCube to me.

 

[Germuso]

You will see when the MP4 reviews drops…

I wish Max Payne 4 too, 3 had amazing gunplay.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Lot of assumptions in the thread that shooter mechanics are not improved.

Its been 15 yrs since last MP game. They must've definitely improved shooting after all these years, even if its not apparent in the video.

Depends on what you mean by improved and shooter mechanics and improved shooting.

I expect it be very similar to MP of old. Also remember it's a Switch 1 game. The S2 version probably just going to dial up the resolution/frames and I assume add mouse aiming.

I would think the focus of the developer wouldn't be on adding more oomph. IT would be doing new game mechanics. New gameplay ideas.