Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


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And?
If I can buy the next cyberpunk 2077 on newer switch, then yes, it's a competitor.

I seriously doubt a next gen portable from Nintendo will be that powerful.

Not shirting on Nintendo here but they usually don't compete with the other two where power is concerned.

I own two switches and love them but I recognise they are both very weak gaming devices.
 
Consumer habit isn't going to the factor at least not directly.

Consumer habits, hardware configuration (Switch isn't the same as a PS4/XboxOne), software sales data, services.

I mean MS the other day was arguing a Xbox is not like a smartphone, and that their model revolves around taking a loss on hardware. Guess who doesn't take a loss on hardware.

A lot of people arguing as if when Disney bought Fox there was no problem with the sports division because sports is part of TV. Regulators had no trouble separating sports from the rest.
 
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Consumer habits, hardware configuration (Switch isn't the same as a PS4/XboxOne), software sales data, services.
Is this supposed to be the list of things that regulators (more importantly a judge) will look at? Software sales data imo is a subset of Consumer habits.

Re services, its going to be interesting cause the EC previously decided that games streaming or subscriptions wasn't a different enough market to be segmented. Whether that changes, who knows.

As regards a possible segmentation of a hypothetical digital distribution market based on the payment model (upfront payment vs. subscription), the results of the market investigation indicate that such a segmentation is not warranted, in particular because digital payment models to a large extent are interchangeable.47 Similarly, the results of the market investigation do not support segmenting the hypothetical digital distribution market by types of players' access (download vs. streaming). A large majority of respondents in the market investigation indicated that such a segmentation is not appropriate in particular because different access does not influence the players' purchasing behaviour and choices.48 On this basis, for the purpose of this decision, the Commission will not distinguish different segments in the digital distribution market, based on the payment model and on the types of access.

The main factor will be unless the judge decides to ignore precedent
the products or producers do [and] the market must encompass the product at issue as well as all economic substitutes for the product."). "Economic substitutes have a 'reasonable interchangeability of use' or sufficient 'cross-elasticity of demand' with the relevant product."
That's where the interesting stats will be about.

I mean MS the other day was arguing a Xbox is not like a smartphone, and that their model revolves around taking a loss on hardware. Guess who doesn't take a loss on hardware.
In front of a judge? or 'BS' that they and all companies do in front of press to justify policies like revenue splits. They all also spout BS in court to justify crap. Also Sony isn't taking a loss on the Disc SKU or wasn't so its a nice tangent but ultimately its not massively relevant.
 
You aren't playing Cyberpunks sequel on the Switch 2 lmao
We will see.
I seriously doubt a next gen portable from Nintendo will be that powerful.

Not shirting on Nintendo here but they usually don't compete with the other two where power is concerned.

I own two switches and love them but I recognise they are both very weak gaming devices.
You don't need 4k to compete. Xss exist, and steam deck exist.
Switch 2 just needs to strong enough to run demanding games at 1080p like xss and steam deck.
 
In front of a judge? or 'BS' that they and all companies do in front of press to justify policies like revenue splits. They all also spout BS in court to justify crap. Also Sony isn't taking a loss on the Disc SKU or wasn't so its a nice tangent but ultimately its not massively relevant.

Press? Didn't MS formally join Epic vs Apple and provided information and arguments?

From over here I see you believe this is a shoe in. Bet the house on the deal mate.
 
I mean MS the other day was arguing a Xbox is not like a smartphone, and that their model revolves around taking a loss on hardware. Guess who doesn't take a loss on hardware.

Still the same business model. At best a low margin profit on hardware, with the bulk of profits from software.

I know we're focused on the FTC but this is relevant

EU Charges Meta With Antitrust Violations Linked to Marketplace

[/URL]

How is this relevant when it has nothing to do with mergers or acquisitions?
 
We will see.

You don't need 4k to compete. Xss exist, and steam deck exist.
Switch 2 just needs to strong enough to run demanding games at 1080p like xss and steam deck.

I'm not talking about 4K. Look at all the titles that are on XSS instead of Switch. Hopefully that makes it easier for you to understand.
 
Knowing Nintendo, I might be jumping on the gun too fast.
Hope they don't butcher it.
We will see.

You don't need 4k to compete. Xss exist, and steam deck exist.
Switch 2 just needs to strong enough to run demanding games at 1080p like xss and steam deck.

MVhDM5R.jpg


You can clearly see the downward trend of Nintendo's home console (Wii as an outlier).

Switch is an hybrid console (basically merging their Home Console SKU because Nintendo is not able to compete in that space).

Just buy an steam deck or something similar. Fuck Nintendo.
 
Press? Didn't MS formally join Epic vs Apple and provided information and arguments?
I also said hardware losses/profits isn't really relevant to market definitions. I also said MS is happy to spout BS in front of judges to make their arguments. Side note: the argument/topic about revenue splits shouldn't be related to the hardware losses/profit cause its too flimsy, it in theory is getting litigated/deal with via the right routes, legislation of the OAMA and DMA.

From over here I see you believe this is a shoe in. Bet the house on the deal mate.
I didn't say that but okay. I am just stating that previous precedent re: defining a market isn't related to consumer behaviour or distribution, regulators and/or judges may change that. Interesting the CMA didn't seem to investigate the Bethesda deal or at least I can't find it so their argument could be 'consistent' and kill the deal.

Anyways I will return the next time the CMA or EC post something interesting, probably early next year..
 
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MVhDM5R.jpg


You can clearly see the downward trend of Nintendo's home console (Wii as an outlier).

Switch is an hybrid console (basically merging their Home Console SKU because Nintendo is not able to compete in that space).

Just buy an steam deck or something similar. Fuck Nintendo.
So just ignore the inconvenient successes that don't align with the trend and we'll see the trend. Got it.
 
MVhDM5R.jpg


You can clearly see the downward trend of Nintendo's home console (Wii as an outlier).

Switch is an hybrid console (basically merging their Home Console SKU because Nintendo is not able to compete in that space).

Just buy an steam deck or something similar. Fuck Nintendo.
I am planning to get one in the future.
Steam deck is going to be my gaming system in the future.
 
So just ignore the inconvenient successes that don't align with the trend and we'll see the trend. Got it.

Isn't the switch 100M+ right now? Is this like when the Wii wasn't considered part of the PS3/360 generation too despite selling more?.... Then again, FTC seems to agree that Nintendo isn't a "high performance console" like Chevy's aren't cars because BMW exist, i guess. :P
 
Isn't the switch 100M+ right now? Is this like when the Wii wasn't considered part of the PS3/360 generation too despite selling more?.... Then again, FTC seems to agree that Nintendo isn't a "high performance console" like Chevy's aren't cars because BMW exist, i guess. :p
I'm so glad these claims will have to hold up in court.
 
That's not context and nuance...
derp GIF


"Other consoles lack the high performance of the Xbox Series X|S and PS5
consoles. For example, the Nintendo Switch, which is designed to allow portable, handheld use,
necessarily sacrifices computing power, which leaves it unable to play certain games that require
more advanced graphic processing."


Are you even paying attention at this point, DeepEnigma DeepEnigma
 

"Other consoles lack the high performance of the Xbox Series X|S and PS5
consoles. For example, the Nintendo Switch, which is designed to allow portable, handheld use,
necessarily sacrifices computing power, which leaves it unable to play certain games that require
more advanced graphic processing."


Are you even paying attention at this point, DeepEnigma DeepEnigma
So explain the car analogy again in context to that quote. Derp.
 
It is a handheld PC that's still only sold around 1m worldwide aprox a year later. A little different to the TGP he's suggesting Tencent could sell in the US.
The Steam Deck started shipping in late February only in the USA and EU in the midst of a very difficult semiconductor and distribution crisis, and despite that they reached 1 million units at the end of September (7 months).
After that, the console's production suffered a significant ramp up and started shipping directly without the reservation system. They only expanded the distribution to Asian countries last week or so. Valve is moving units a lot faster nowadays, as the console has been Steam's constant top seller for months.
 
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So explain the car analogy again in context to that quote. Derp.

Arbitrary lines are arbitrary. A car is a car is a car. Whether it can drive on the highway, side roads, or the autobahn. Separating on price and performance doesn't change the denominator that all are cars - even if some are more specialized than others or meets a different part of the market.

Separating Nintendo or forcing an exclusionary gaming market to just Sony/MS is contrived. Nevermind the fact that PC, Mobile, and other devices also exist in the market.

It's basically a "yeah, but does it run Crysis?" as your definitive characteristic.
 
Arbitrary lines are arbitrary. A car is a car is a car. Whether it can drive on the highway, side roads, or the autobahn. Separating on price and performance doesn't change the denominator that all are cars - even if some are more specialized than others or meets a different part of the market.

Separating Nintendo or forcing an exclusionary gaming market to just Sony/MS is contrived. Nevermind the fact that PC, Mobile, and other devices also exist in the market.

It's basically a "yeah, but does it run Crysis?" as your definitive characteristic.
The quote did not say that, however. You used a quote about context and nuance, then used a blanketed analogy. Mental gymnastics ensued.
 
The quote did not say that, however. You used a quote about context and nuance, then used a blanketed analogy. Mental gymnastics ensued.

Read the full report - I even gave you the report link. It continues further with that specific position as its basis. I dunno what to tell you.
 
Arbitrary lines are arbitrary. A car is a car is a car. Whether it can drive on the highway, side roads, or the autobahn. Separating on price and performance doesn't change the denominator that all are cars - even if some are more specialized than others or meets a different part of the market.

Separating Nintendo or forcing an exclusionary gaming market to just Sony/MS is contrived. Nevermind the fact that PC, Mobile, and other devices also exist in the market.

It's basically a "yeah, but does it run Crysis?" as your definitive characteristic.
This is literally how the automotive industry works...You don't compare a Honda Civic to an Aston Martin DB11.
 
Arbitrary lines are arbitrary. A car is a car is a car. Whether it can drive on the highway, side roads, or the autobahn. Separating on price and performance doesn't change the denominator that all are cars - even if some are more specialized than others or meets a different part of the market.

Separating Nintendo or forcing an exclusionary gaming market to just Sony/MS is contrived. Nevermind the fact that PC, Mobile, and other devices also exist in the market.

It's basically a "yeah, but does it run Crysis?" as your definitive characteristic.
I completely agree. The video game market was always separated by PC, mobile, and console. The Switch is every bit of a console as the Xbox and PlayStation. The XSS caters to casuals as much as Switch. No one honestly calls it a high performance device. It is a silly segmentation to make the Switch a monopoly in a market all alone. Since it's a monopoly where are the regulators?!

It's even more ridiculous to think that Game pass and traditional retail are different markets. How could Game pass destroy the value of games if it is a completely separate market? All logic is tossed out of the window to support these narratives. I am looking forward to MS' FTC response and more importantly the findings from the CMA and EC.
 
This is literally how the automotive industry works...You don't compare a Honda Civic to an Aston Martin DB11.

Maybe you do.

I had a conversation about the AMG C series in my driveway with a guy on Facebook a few years ago. Some 20 year old fuckwit decided to show up and shit talk. Making comparisons about his half rotten plain jane Honda Civic destroying it or blowing it away. It was absolutely fucking amazing and retarded.
 
Maybe you do.

I had a conversation about the AMG C series in my driveway with a guy on Facebook a few years ago. Some 20 year old fuckwit decided to show up and shit talk. Making comparisons about his half rotten plain jane Honda Civic destroying it or blowing it away. It was absolutely fucking amazing and retarded.
Did he have a laptop in the front seat hooked up to the ECU?

If so, I would not count him out :pie_roffles:
 
Maybe you do.

I had a conversation about the AMG C series in my driveway with a guy on Facebook a few years ago. Some 20 year old fuckwit decided to show up and shit talk. Making comparisons about his half rotten plain jane Honda Civic destroying it or blowing it away. It was absolutely fucking amazing and retarded.

Both are cars though - that's the point. They are both in the auto-industry and when you look at the "car market" you include both and de-aggregate. There is no "high performance console" market - there's just "the console market" - at least that's all there was until the FTC contrived their weird argument to say otherwise.
 
Did he have a laptop in the front seat hooked up to the ECU?

If so, I would not count him out :pie_roffles:

I saw him around. LED kit glued to the bottom, and a bad muffler for maximum purebred retardation. The kid loved his noisy, rusted out beater so much that he turned into an asshole that runs his mouth off at everybody. I choose to believe his car would have disintegrated if I had parked next to him and revved the engine, but I don't have time for bullshit show off shit. I don't even have the car around anymore. Too expensive.
 
I saw him around. LED kit glued to the bottom, and a bad muffler for maximum purebred retardation. The kid loved his noisy, rusted out beater so much that he turned into an asshole that runs his mouth off at everybody. I choose to believe his car would have disintegrated if I had parked next to him and revved the engine, but I don't have time for bullshit show off shit. I don't even have the car around anymore. Too expensive.
Slammed with retard degrees of camber too I bet?
 
Both are cars though - that's the point. They are both in the auto-industry and when you look at the "car market" you include both and de-aggregate. There is no "high performance console" market - there's just "the console market" - at least that's all there was until the FTC contrived their weird argument to say otherwise.

Let's hope that SNK management doesn't show up to piss in your face and refresh your memory.
 
I have a hard time believing Switch can play games like RE Village, Dying Light 2, or AC Odyssey yet can't play CoD. It's an even sillier argument considering Nintendo can just release a new console in a year or two that can easily play CoD without needing the cloud.
 
Both are cars though - that's the point. They are both in the auto-industry and when you look at the "car market" you include both and de-aggregate. There is no "high performance console" market - there's just "the console market" - at least that's all there was until the FTC contrived their weird argument to say otherwise.
Try telling that to your insurance provider.
 
Both are cars though - that's the point. They are both in the auto-industry and when you look at the "car market" you include both and de-aggregate. There is no "high performance console" market - there's just "the console market" - at least that's all there was until the FTC contrived their weird argument to say otherwise.
You lost. Accept it and move on bro.
 
The Steam Deck started shipping in late February only in the USA and EU in the midst of a very difficult semiconductor and distribution crisis, and despite that they reached 1 million units at the end of September (7 months).
After that, the console's production suffered a significant ramp up and started shipping directly without the reservation system. They only expanded the distribution to Asian countries last week or so. Valve is moving units a lot faster nowadays, as the console has been Steam's constant top seller for months.
Steams top seller is revenue based, and steamdeck is an expensive bit of kit. The Valve Index was high on it too but ultimately how much did it sell? I don't think the steamdeck is exactly competing very well with the PS5 or Xbox Series in terms of sales but I think it's a handheld market anyway. The high performance steamboxs that Valve released prior failed badly. Any Tencent TGP console in the US to go up against the xbox or PlayStation would suffer the same fate. It would be good to get recent numbers for steamdeck too but I think the early October numbers included the ramp up in June.
 
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No, you don't lol. We have vehicle type classifications for a reason.



Y'all are arguing in bad faith.

The Ford F150, Dodge Ram, Civic, and Corvette are all part of the $100B auto-industry. There are segments but at no point would Ford buying all remaining independent "performance car companies" preventing other car companies from thriving nor preventing car companies from making performance cars themselves. And it's not even how the industry really is seen, and when analyzed it's a subset of the industry but exclusionary to the market as a whole.

This is basically saying AMC G-wagon and A-Class are not both cars since one is an SUV and one is a sedan.

Switch is a console, Playstation is a console, and Xbox Series is console. They are the same market, and you can't exclude one versus the other based on performance or price characteristics.
 
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