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[Topher]

Man that's weird. Lets try that again.

This deal will still go through

This is Kinda Funny believing that the deal will still go through. There reasoning is that they'll probably win the appeal.

Those guys are talking straight out of their ass.

 

[Unknown?]

Yeah, I am suprised at how many in here is actually thinking anyone is afraid of a cloud monopoly.

Xbox is trying to build a service where we don't have to spend fortunes on games, and people are trying to defend Sony and the broken AAA model.

Yeah the price is less but you lose the right to actually own your content. Heck even buying digital STILL isn't owning your content because you're technically just purchasing a license to play the game and licenses can be revoked at any time.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm celebrating this personally. MS has proven to be inept and I don't want them buying up publishers left and right? This isn't healthy for the industry.

I think that’s one way of looking at it. Another way is that this could have been a reset for Microsoft and a reset for Console gaming. One could argue that it is exactly the shake up both needed.

SOCOM is coming. If I say it enough it will happen

I think SOCOM has a good chance of coming back. Biggest problem is finding out who will take the mantle.

 

[Unknown?]

I think that’s one way of looking at it. Another way is that this could have been a reset for Microsoft and a reset for Console gaming. One could argue that it is exactly the shake up both needed.


I think SOCOM has a good chance of coming back. Biggest problem is finding out who will take the mantle.

A new company, called either Button or Horizontal 7.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

A new company, called either Button or Horizontal 7.

I think Sony’s best bet is to create a 3rd person shooter ala SOCOM and a 1st person military shooter ala COD and a sci fi shooter

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

They made it clear this isn't about Sony.

I think you missed the point of the post there mate. There's plenty of competition; Sony buying viable competitor at start up phase at the same origin time as Azure, Apple already in gaming massively and money/infrastructure and partnerships to deliver cloud.

My post wasn't just about Sony.

 

[Captain Toad]

Imagine thinking cloud gaming is a net positive for the industry.
It's a BS system designed to remove ownership from consumers. And the worst part is that gamers loved it.
Miss me with that Sword of Damocles shit.
As for the deal in question, I don't care.

I don't care about the ownership angle. But, streaming will never be optimal for gaming. Not today, not twenty years from now.

It definitely has its place, but it should never be the primary method to game. Gaming is very different than other forms of media such as television or music.

 

[demigod]

Reminds me......where is @ManaByte anyway?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/micr...oval-watch-ot.1641775/page-871#post-267868129

Right here.

 

[Topher]

I think you missed the point of the post there mate. There's plenty of competition; Sony buying viable competitor at start up phase at the same origin time as Azure, Apple already in gaming massively and money/infrastructure and partnerships to deliver cloud.

My post wasn't just about Sony.

It shouldn't involve Sony at all any longer. You made it about Sony anyway.

 

[ReBurn]

I think you missed the point of the post there mate. There's plenty of competition; Sony buying viable competitor at start up phase at the same origin time as Azure, Apple already in gaming massively and money/infrastructure and partnerships to deliver cloud.

My post wasn't just about Sony.

What's funny about Sony is that they were actually ahead of the curve in the cloud gaming space with their acquisition of Gaikai and the development of PSNow. They chose to slow investment in it whereas Microsoft came after and ended up investing more to build it out to the point where it is a nascent market at all. They have the share they have because they built the infrastructure and commercial framework to make it viable.

It just seems strange that this particular acquisition would be blocked for cloud gaming reasons when there's nothing particularly cloud-related about it. Microsoft could probably still negotiate game pass cloud exclusivity with ABK if that's what they were after, regardless of the acquisition. I don't have any issue with the deal being blocked if it needs to be blocked. This just seems like an odd reason.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

It shouldn't involve Sony at all any longer. You made it about Sony anyway.

Really? So what was buying Gaikai and OnLive patents about then?

The verge in 2019 thought it was a pretty valid point.

PlayStation Now had the keys to the cloud gaming kingdom, but Sony barely stuck a toe in the door.

One could reasonably argue MS/Xbox or Stadia are the competition just doing it better. Sony had a 5-10 year head start and chose not to innovate. Apple coming in next in the future of cloud gaming, CMA didn't see it coming, again.

 

[Rac3r]

I think Sony’s best bet is to create a 3rd person shooter ala SOCOM and a 1st person military shooter ala COD and a sci fi shooter

Sadly I don't see Sony developing another 3rd person multiplayer shooter alongside Factions 2, but I think Deviation Games is likely making a military FPS and Bungie is definitely working on their next sci fi FPS. As long as Factions 2 has team PvP, I'm ok with SOCOM not coming back.

 

[FullMetalx117]

What’s with all these cute comparisons “Sony does this with final fantasy, street fighter, etc”

Do you not understand COD, and few other ATVI games, are just on another level? A bad cod game will outsell any of these exclusive Sony games by 10x. Making final fantasy exclusive is like making Starfield exclusive, cod is just in a different league.

If somehow Sony made GTA exclusive in modern times, then yes you have an argument. But even then, GTA games have a 10 year def cycle vs 2-3 years of a cod game and it’s released yearly.

 

[Topher]

Really? So what was buying Gaikai and OnLive patents about then?

The verge in 2019 thought it was a pretty valid point.



One could reasonably argue MS/Xbox or Stadia Xbox are the competition just doing it better. Sony had a 5-10 year head start and chose not to innovate. Apple coming in next in the future of cloud gaming, CMA didn't see it coming, again.

You are drudging up shit that has nothing to do with the CMA's ruling.

What's funny about Sony is that they were actually ahead of the curve in the cloud gaming space with their acquisition of Gaikai and the development of PSNow. They chose to slow investment in it whereas Microsoft came after and ended up investing more to build it out to the point where it is a nascent market at all. They have the share they have because they built the infrastructure and commercial framework to make it viable.

It just seems strange that this particular acquisition would be blocked for cloud gaming reasons when there's nothing particularly cloud-related about it. Microsoft could probably still negotiate game pass cloud exclusivity with ABK if that's what they were after, regardless of the acquisition. I don't have any issue with the deal being blocked if it needs to be blocked. This just seems like an odd reason.

So are you.

This has nothing to do with Sony. The CMA threw out everything Sony related. Period.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

MS next move: Pay Activision 60 billion to keep CoD exclusive to Gamepass the next 10 years

Xbox would love that. MS would not.
Buying a 60 billion dollar asset is a net neutral activity. You gain a company worth 60 billion.
Spending 60 billion to keep CoD off Sony for 10 years means spending 60 billion and had nothing to show for it after 10 years.

Microsoft has an infinite warchest, but Xbox has to beg to access it. It's like asking Santa for presents.

 

[Bernardougf]

Yeah, I am suprised at how many in here is actually thinking anyone is afraid of a cloud monopoly.

Xbox is trying to build a service where we don't have to spend fortunes on games, and people are trying to defend Sony and the broken AAA model.

You cant honestly be this naive, really I just cant belive you really truly think that MS goal is to give AAA quality games really cheap for you forever ... I mean is such a quasi socialistic utopian dream ... people by now should have learned from history what this utopian bullshit brings ... keep off the kool-aid mate, open your eyes and see the 1 dollar trojan horse

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The other interesting element is so many replies stating CAT appeals are just CMA decisions on a loop to CMA authoritative rulings, while true for most rulings it's not a slam dunk and there is a process where CAT have power to overturn CMA rulings entirely. A relevant one would be Compare the Market where CAT set aside the CMA's decision -

Anti-competitive effects of the wide MFNs

The CAT held that the CMA had failed to establish that the wide MFNs had the anti-competitive effects articulated in its decision. The case was an infringement ‘by effects’ case, and while the CMA was under no obligation to quantify the extent of the anti-competitive effects, it was required to demonstrate that the adverse effects on competition occurred on the balance of probabilities.

The CAT concluded there was no reliable evidence to conclude that the existence of the wide MFNs had any adverse effect on premiums or commissions. In fact, the CAT went further and considered it unlikely that the wide MFNs had any effect on keeping premiums or commissions at a higher level than they would otherwise have been.

The CAT was extremely critical of the evidence relied on by the CMA, which had based its decision entirely on qualitative evidence and not at all on quantitative/econometric evidence. The CAT described that evidence at best as anecdotal, lacking depth and consistency with the CMA’s theory of harm. Much more seriously, according to the CAT the evidence was untestable by both Compare The Market and the CAT, and it was never clear exactly what qualitative evidence the CMA was actually relying on.

The CAT upheld five of the six grounds of appeal advanced by Compare The Market and set aside the CMA’s infringement decision. The CMA has until 16 September 2022 to apply for permission to appeal the CAT’s ruling.

There is legs in this acquisition yet.

 

[XXL]

Xbox is trying to build a service where we don't have to spend fortunes on games, and people are trying to defend Sony and the broken AAA model.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The other interesting element is so many replies stating CAT appeals are just CMA decisions on a loop to CMA authoritative rulings, while true for most rulings it's not a slam dunk and there is a process where CAT have power to overturn CMA rulings entirely. A relevant one would be Compare the Market where CAT set aside the CMA's decision -



There is legs in this acquisition yet.

Do you even know why you need this so much?

It can’t be COD. It just can’t don’t gimme that bs son.

 

[Bernardougf]

Do you even know why you need this so much?

It can’t be COD. It just can’t don’t gimme that bs son.

cod on switch .. of course

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Do you even know why you need this so much?

It can’t be COD. It just can’t don’t gimme that bs son.

Why do I have to need it so much? That's your bias not mine. I'm just looking at merits, still haven't seen what I consider a viable reason to block, nor are the facts of many replies here objectively accurate. I'm not upset either way.

For me the merit of innovation MS/Xbox have brought to the table is deserving of this acquisition, just look at my posts above as to why. When I consider say Apple being the dominant player or Tencent for example I have no interest in that future of gaming. Further I have no interest in walled gardens either e.g. Sony or Apple.

It's a forum and I like to discuss and think things through, is that an issue? I have to have some green agenda do I?

 

[bender]

Good guy Xbox saving me from the broken AAA model with the power of Bobby Kotick and Call of Duty. Praise be!

 

[Thirty7ven]

For me the merit of innovation MS/Xbox have brought to the table is deserving of this acquisition, just look at my posts above as to why. When I consider say Apple being the dominant player or Tencent for example I have no interest in that future of gaming. Further I have no interest in walled gardens either e.g. Sony or Apple.

It's a forum and I like to discuss and think things through, is that an issue? I have to have some green agenda do I?

I mean you don’t have to but you sorta just admitted to it anyway. Go at it.

 

[ReBurn]

You are drudging up shit that has nothing to do with the CMA's ruling.



So are you.

This has nothing to do with Sony. The CMA threw out everything Sony related. Period.

The fact that that the CMA didn't mention Sony in their decision doesn't mean that Sony didn't have a role in the formation of cloud gaming. It is possible for us to talk about how the market formed to begin with and where it is today. If you don't like it you don't have to respond.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I mean you don’t have to but you sorta just admitted to it anyway. Go at it.

Sure I'd like to see the deal go through, I predominantly play on Xbox or PC these days. We have lots of platforms and devices in our house, just not Sony but my son is looking at a PS. It doesn't mean I'm personally going to hang myself if it doesn't go through for MS/Xbox.

It's always fun to have factual discussions fall by the wayside for "gotchya" banter such as your string of replies. Have at it, there wasn't anything meriting discussion or debate in your replies BTW. I hoped for more, should have expected what I got.

 

[Unknown?]

Why do I have to need it so much? That's your bias not mine. I'm just looking at merits, still haven't seen what I consider a viable reason to block, nor are the facts of many replies here objectively accurate. I'm not upset either way.

For me the merit of innovation MS/Xbox have brought to the table is deserving of this acquisition, just look at my posts above as to why. When I consider say Apple being the dominant player or Tencent for example I have no interest in that future of gaming. Further I have no interest in walled gardens either e.g. Sony or Apple.

It's a forum and I like to discuss and think things through, is that an issue? I have to have some green agenda do I?

Microsoft isn't any better than Apple though and I would have no interest in gaming if they owned the biggest publishers. Same for Sony I wouldn't want them buying Take Two.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Microsoft isn't any better than Apple though and I would have no interest in gaming if they owned the biggest publishers. Same for Sony I wouldn't want them buying Take Two.

Would you agree that Apple is walled garden and MS for 95-99% is not? For me that's much the differentiator, YMMV. I have little interest in locked down hardware or software, I prefer open platforms and have for decades (not just gaming either).

 

[Thirty7ven]

Sure I'd like to see the deal go through, I predominantly play on Xbox or PC these days. We have lots of platforms and devices in our house, just not Sony but my son is looking at a PS. It doesn't mean I'm personally going to hang myself if it doesn't go through for MS/Xbox.

It's always fun to have factual discussions fall by the wayside for "gotchya" banter such as your string of replies. Have at it, there wasn't anything meriting discussion or debate in your replies BTW. I hoped for more, should have expected what I got.

You just said that MS deserves ABK. You might believe you’re actually having this nuanced and intelligent take on the subject, but you’re not. The only way the CMA makes sense to you is if they approve.

By the way, Xbox is a walled garden.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

You just said that MS deserves ABK. You might believe you’re actually having this nuanced and intelligent take on the subject, but you’re not. The only way the CMA makes sense to you is if they approve.

Given my posts above, yes that is what makes sense to me. I outlined a history of cloud gaming quickly, competitors historically and in the future, innovation by MS/Xbox and linked sources showing why the deal could still go through. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be defensive or betting my house on such a deal, based on your replies. You seem to need me to change my mind or something and all without discussing anything based on facts or insights. Ok, what am I supposed to debate with you? Yeah I like the deal.

 

[Topher]

The fact that that the CMA didn't mention Sony in their decision doesn't mean that Sony didn't have a role in the formation of cloud gaming. It is possible for us to talk about how the market formed to begin with and where it is today. If you don't like it you don't have to respond.

The formation of cloud gaming isn’t even the subject. This amounts to making it about Sony for the sake of making it about Sony.

You don’t have to respond either, bro.

 

[Bragr]

You cant honestly be this naive, really I just cant belive you really truly think that MS goal is to give AAA quality games really cheap for you forever ... I mean is such a quasi socialistic utopian dream ... people by now should have learned from history what this utopian bullshit brings ... keep off the kool-aid mate, open your eyes and see the 1 dollar trojan horse

What do you think their goal is?

 

[bender]

It doesn't mean I'm personally going to hang myself if it doesn't go through for MS/Xbox.

Always had you pegged as a jumper anyway.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Always had you pegged as a jumper anyway.

 

[Chiggs]

Xbox is nothing short of a disaster. Dump Phil or lose the brand for good.

 

[Unknown?]

Would you agree that Apple is walled garden and MS for 95-99% is not? For me that's much the differentiator, YMMV. I have little interest in locked down hardware or software, I prefer open platforms and have for decades (not just gaming either).

Yes and no. Their consoles aren't much better, it's still walled like the other consoles and uses proprietary storage. PC is better but I don't do proprietary OSs on PC. Windows allows you to install most programs you want but it's very much locked into the Microsoft ecosystem unless you get the ameliorated edition which is a 3rd party mod.

 

[Captain Toad]

Yeah, I am suprised at how many in here is actually thinking anyone is afraid of a cloud monopoly.

Xbox is trying to build a service where we don't have to spend fortunes on games, and people are trying to defend Sony and the broken AAA model.

 

[Bernardougf]

What do you think their goal is?

If I have to guess ? Expand game pass and xbox and position itself as leader in the service / cloud gaming fishing for us suckers with cheap bait ... in the future with the market dominance stablished they can charge whatever it wants for gamepass acces .. as they do for windows , office and all the things they practically holds the monopoly ... is what they do is what they know how to do ... everyother market they have to compete or chase they fail ...

We can only imagine what plans MS had in mind with this and others aquisitions, we cant really know for sure only speculate and guess

One thing is for sure mate, keep giving quality AAA games for almost no cost at a regular basis is impossible even for a trillion dollar company, doom 4, sterfield, oblivion, all the COD , Halo, Gears, Forza ... put all together and is billions expended in development, you cant recover this money and grow practically "giving it away"

Free/cheap things are nice we all like them, but always be mindful of what you are bringing inside your home.

Anyway going to sleep, have a nice one mate.

 

[Captain Toad]

What do you think their goal is?

Same as you.

Making AAA games that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make to give their players for so cheap they bleed money.

 

[IFireflyl]

microsoft wanting to appeal the decision?

the european comission in may:

And the FTC in August:

 

[demigod]

I agree with him but not because they are in trouble. They did come close to having a competitor control the biggest FPS. They should definitely look into creating a genuine COD competitor to minimize harm if something like this happens again IMO. Plus I want to see what they could make from the ground up in the genre.

Give me fucking Resistance again.

 

[Bragr]

Same as you.

Making AAA games that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make to give their players for so cheap they bleed money.

Exactly, bleeding money is their goal, thanks for that great analysis.

 

[bender]

Give me fucking Resistance again.

 

[Tams]

I think that’s one way of looking at it. Another way is that this could have been a reset for Microsoft and a reset for Console gaming. One could argue that it is exactly the shake up both needed.


I think SOCOM has a good chance of coming back. Biggest problem is finding out who will take the mantle.

Well, many of the developers at DICE left after Battlefield 1, so there are a load of very good FPS devs out there...

 

[FullMetalx117]

What do you think their goal is?

Pretty simple and this is the goal for most corporations/streamers - they want to become a pharmaceutical company of gaming. Once they establish dominance by losing money for several years/buying up all the publishers/studios and luring in naive customers who want them to be something more than just a provider of free games for the next 2-3 years - they want to be able to price whatever they want because consumers won’t have anywhere else to go, control wages because devs won’t have anywhere else to go for the mass market. They want to have creative control to push corporate views and stances/control dev cycle, essentially convert the creative aspects of gaming into a manufacturing process. And they want to become so big that there really isn’t any going back - see social media companies, smartphones. I think these companies are net positive overall but the behavior of generations after miliennials has changed. There is no longer any care for quality, these companies know they can put out whatever they want, the people are sucked in and will happily consume garbage because that’s all they know. That’s the end goal and honestly there may not be anything we can do to stop it, Microsoft is massive

 

[sainraja]

Newsflash, Sony bought Bungie mate.

Scale is irrelevant when you're talking about comparing Apple vs MS content or infrastructure or financials. Same goes for Google.

You act like Microsoft didn't just acquire a publisher like Bethesda. They are not owed the entire gaming industry because of how they have been handling themselves in gaming.

 

[RevGaming]

It should be illegal to block acquisitions based on hypothetical future situations. They assume cloud gaming is going to take off in popularity and they assume that Sony won't have infrastructure to compete with Microsoft by the time that happens. Dumb decision all around.

Really bad news for Xbox. Will only slow sales down more. Not looking good. Good chance people will look back on this as CMA killing the Xbox brand.

Xbox killed itself lmao.

They have 23 studios and feels like 3.

 

[Bragr]

If I have to guess ? Expand game pass and xbox and position itself as leader in the service / cloud gaming fishing for us suckers with cheap bait ... in the future with the market dominance stablished they can charge whatever it wants for gamepass acces .. as they do for windows , office and all the things they practically holds the monopoly ... is what they do is what they know how to do ... everyother market they have to compete or chase they fail ...

We can only imagine what plans MS had in mind with this and others aquisitions, we cant really know for sure only speculate and guess

One thing is for sure mate, keep giving quality AAA games for almost no cost at a regular basis is impossible even for a trillion dollar company, doom 4, sterfield, oblivion, all the COD , Halo, Gears, Forza ... put all together and is billions expended in development, you cant recover this money and grow practically "giving it away"

Free/cheap things are nice we all like them, but always be mindful of what you are bringing inside your home.

Anyway going to sleep, have a nice one mate.

So you think they will take over the industry and raise the price for game pass when there is no competition?

Office and Windows are not expensive. Or do you think they will increase the price tenfold there too?

Be mindful of what you bring into your home? Game Pass?

:|

 

[Bridges]

My read on this is that I'll never get a new Guitar Hero now

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Xbox killed itself lmao.

They have 23 studios and feels like 3.

Only 3 have actually released a game in the last 2 gens or something? That's probably why. I don't know what the other 20 studios are doing but clearly releasing games isn't high on their priority lists.

MS should spend less time trying to buy more studios and more time actually getting the studios they do have to release games.

 

[sainraja]

What's funny about Sony is that they were actually ahead of the curve in the cloud gaming space with their acquisition of Gaikai and the development of PSNow. They chose to slow investment in it whereas Microsoft came after and ended up investing more to build it out to the point where it is a nascent market at all. They have the share they have because they built the infrastructure and commercial framework to make it viable.

It just seems strange that this particular acquisition would be blocked for cloud gaming reasons when there's nothing particularly cloud-related about it. Microsoft could probably still negotiate game pass cloud exclusivity with ABK if that's what they were after, regardless of the acquisition. I don't have any issue with the deal being blocked if it needs to be blocked. This just seems like an odd reason.

Didn't MS make it about cloud by trying to make 10 year deals that were cloud based?