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[TwiztidElf]

Microsoft. Activision. What innovation is being protected?

 

[Astray]

Specially when that guy Chris opens his mouth.

My God that dude has nothing to add at all. He's legit only there because he's Colin's friend.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Somehow Tom Warren was actually on the money.

 

[killatopak]

The fact that governments can get involved to prevent a deal over Microsoft's 60-70% cloud streaming market share is completely ridiculous and everyone knows it. I get some people on here are gonna root for a pro-sony decision regardless of whether it makes sense or not but c'mon.

I wonder if Stadia was still around if this goes through?

Cmon now, you‘re really saying this while MS was lobbying the American government to make the deal happen?

 

[Badlucktroll]

So they are pretty much worried that Microsoft will own too much and lock it in their cloud?

 

[MarkMe2525]

If xCloud was a separate subscription to gamepass its market share would be zero… cause it fucking blows.

It’s running on fucking Xbox. It doesn’t even have mouse and keyboard support! It’s seriously garbage. Hilarious that xCloud is what derails this deal.

I am not sure if you are specifically referring to xcloud not having mouse and keyboard support, but if you are, they have announced that feature will be coming to PC users. They have the ability to inject bespoke controller options depending on the device you are using. An example is with Sea of Thieves: if you are streaming the game on your phone, then you will have the ability to use gyro aiming with no extra configuration required; it just uses your phone sensors as if it was a native phone game.

 

[Astray]

So they are pretty much worried that Microsoft will own too much and lock it in their cloud?

They would either lock up the games or use them to force competitors to use Azure.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

So far. Still no final decision from EU.

Microsoft's dominant position in cloud market is the main reason though:

The silly part is Sony have had multiple cloud investments in hundreds of millions for a decade and done very little with it, was that not enough time to establish themselves? Google and Amazon pushed a little into cloud gaming and have warchests to open at any time. Apple confirmed $400Billion over 4 years to invest in datacentres and manufacturing that can easily support mobile/device cloud gaming from an existing duopoly market segment and a walled garden app store. Netflix are investing heavily into gaming/mobile/cloud.

Do the regulators punish Sony for success in the "high performance console" space? Do they punish Google/Apple for mobile duopoly? Pretty arrogant of CMA to think they have a crystal ball capable of determining an emerging market for decades to come. How'd the browser wars go? How'd the OS wars go? How'd music streaming go? How'd movie streaming go? It's quite a weird choice that cloud gaming is the point of contention for this ruling. It doesn't add up, appeals will be interesting.

Every emerging market has one or few clear market leaders, things settle, competitors come and go. When things like Fortnite or Apex legends or PUBG mobile exist in the realms of billions of dollars of turnover you have to wonder what CMA believes stifles competition or innovation exactly? Isn't MS and what they've done with Game Pass + xCloud + cross play + ecosystem that very innovation the regulators wish for? And can make a push to break the mobile space duopoly all the same?

Some history here -
Azure launched in 2010.
Gaikai launched in 2010.
Sony purchase Gaikai in 2012.

Was this not ample time for Sony to leverage their gaming IPs and infrastructure? Is Google not enough of a cloud competitor? Is Amazon? Is Apple?

I'm honestly looking for reasoned answers that validate the CMA ruling, I come up pretty short logic wise; even looking at content or infrastructure.

EDIT: A huge gap in the ruling vision of the CMA is Apple. The chip manufacturing, the mobile content, media content, walled garden, datacentres, OS etc. At any time Apple could enter cloud gaming and have all the pieces with the only exception being a hardware console, of which this ruling doesn't care about. One has to ask how exactly Apple isn't a viable competitor to a so called CMA MS monopoly at content, partner, IPs, infrastructure, hardware, marketing, warchest etc? Again it doesn't add up even when looking through the lens of CMA. CMA asleep on Apple twice in a row?

 

[diffusionx]

I find that to be besides the point. MS stated they could bring the game ‘feature and content complete,’ and Nintendo agreed to go along for the ride. Yet the CMA seems to have concluded that would not be possible. Regardless of who invited who, that conclusion is not based on anything that one would consider evidence.

There is also a precedent for MS doing this exact same thing at the launch of Xbox One with Titanfall for the 360. The 360 version of Titanfall was not a simple port, but for the most part, a completely separate build of the game designed around the hardware constraints of the 360. I make no claims to be an expert, but would there be anything to stop a developer from pulling the "game code" from a title and incorporating it into a different rendering setup? This is not a rhetorical question, as from my understanding, that is how bluepoint got Titanfall running on the 360. Even if you are not interested in the answer to these questions, I do recommend watching this video on the subject. Bluepoint really impressed with this version of the game.

The gap between modern games, including Call of Duty, and what runs on Switch is FAR bigger than the gap between Titanfall One (which was a first gen One game that didn’t take advantage of the hardware like later games, and ran pretty poorly besides) and 360. Activision has not made a 360 COD game in almost a decade and their engines have evolved a lot since then even.

Anything is possible, I suppose, but if it was even remotely plausible or realistic for Activision to put modern COD in respectable form on Switch they would have done it a long time ago. It’s a huge market after all and Activision is greedy.

 

[delirium trigger]

Cmon now, you‘re really saying this while MS was lobbying the American government to make the deal happen?

Absolutely. They made a fair deal with a company and had to grease their own government to get it through... It's kind of ridiculous.

I'm mostly a free-market guy but there are definitely examples of monopolistic bs where the government can step in. In this case?

Microsoft having 65% of market share in cloud gaming prevents the deal. This is straight out of a comedy movie.

 

[Unknown?]

The silly part is Sony have had multiple cloud investments in hundreds of millions for a decade and done very little with it, was that not enough time to establish themselves? Google and Amazon pushed a little into cloud gaming and have warchests to open at any time. Apple confirmed $400Billion over 4 years to invest in datacentres and manufacturing that can easily support mobile/device cloud gaming from an existing duopoly market segment and a walled garden app store. Netflix are investing heavily into gaming/mobile/cloud.

Do the regulators punish Sony for success in the "high performance console" space? Do they punish Google/Apple for mobile duopoly? Pretty arrogant of CMA to think they have a crystal ball capable of determining an emerging market for decades to come. How'd the browser wars go? How'd the OS wars go? How'd music streaming go? How'd movie streaming go? It's quite a weird choice that cloud gaming is the point of contention for this ruling. It doesn't add up, appeals will be interesting.

Every emerging market has one or few clear market leaders, things settle, competitors come and go. When things like Fortnite or Apex legends or PUBG mobile exist in the realms of billions of dollars of turnover you have to wonder what CMA believes stifles competition or innovation exactly? Isn't MS and what they've done with Game Pass + xCloud + cross play + ecosystem that very innovation the regulators wish for?

Some history here -
Azure launched in 2010.
Gaikai launched in 2010.
Sony purchase Gaikai in 2012.

Was this not ample time for Sony to leverage their gaming IPs and infrastructure? Is Google not enough of a cloud competitor? Is Amazon? Is Apple?

I'm honestly looking for reasoned answers that validate the CMA ruling, I come up pretty short logic wise; even looking at content or infrastructure.

They should punish Google and Apple. I'd love mainstream Linux phones.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Somehow Tom Warren was actually on the money.

What did he say?

 

[brian0057]

Imagine thinking cloud gaming is a net positive for the industry.
It's a BS system designed to remove ownership from consumers. And the worst part is that gamers loved it.
Miss me with that Sword of Damocles shit.
As for the deal in question, I don't care.

 

[Unknown?]

Imagine thinking cloud gaming is a net positive for the industry.
It's a BS system designed to remove ownership from consumers. And the worst part is that games loved it.
Miss me with that Sword of Damocles shit.
As for the deal in question, I don't care.

Wait until central bank digital currencies come out, same concept, even worse though.

 

[dem]

I am not sure if you are specifically referring to xcloud not having mouse and keyboard support, but if you are, they have announced that feature will be coming to PC users. They have the ability to inject bespoke controller options depending on the device you are using. An example is with Sea of Thieves: if you are streaming the game on your phone, then you will have the ability to use gyro aiming with no extra configuration required; it just uses your phone sensors as if it was a native phone game.

I feel like they announced mouse and keyboard support a long time ago. Still waiting.

 

[The Pleasure]

DarkMage619 is gonna have EXPLOSIVE AMNESIA when he logs in.

 

[dotnotbot]

Do the regulators punish Sony for success in the "high performance console" space?

If this was an anti-trust case against Sony trying to buy ABK then they would. Scale of purchase is an issue here. Microsoft can still buy studios like Bluepoint or even Bungie but letting them buy whole bunch of biggest IPs known to gaming is a huge risk.

 

[Thirty7ven]

What did he say?

 

[SlimySnake]

That never happened, unless you think a PC version doesn't exist.

Looking at Final Fantasy bunduru.

I never said cod wont still release on pc alongside Xbox.

 

[FrankWza]

I forgot about this gem, legend!!!!

This line is going to be amazing when they cast Daniel Day Lewis as Jimbo in the movie, "I-Block-Your-Merger"

 

[Mr Moose]

I never said cod wont still release on pc alongside Xbox.

buying CoD exclusivity outright.

If that's what Sony did with Final Fantasy, it wouldn't be on PC.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Of course, nothing is stopping Microsoft from buying CoD exclusivity outright. Just like Sony did with FF7 and FF16. Gamepass should be cheaper once they sign the marketing contract.

If anything, MS should not be getting outbid by Sony for marketing rights. Just pay more. Surely they can afford it if they were willing to pay $8 billion for bethesda and $3 billion for Minecraft.

If they really wanted games on gamepass, they wouldve just paid. They just dont want to pay. Elden Ring, Hogwarts, Star Wars Survivor, Diablo, not all of these big games have marketing deals with Sony. They couldve easily paid to get them on gamepass without every needing to acquire fromsoft or EA or activision. even in cases when Sony went in and got a deal, MS must have known and they shouldve gone in to make a counter offer.

It would get expensive but Sony would eventually learn not to get into bidding wars with MS. I was shocked that MS didnt go and get Elden Ring last year as a day one gamepass title. Like you have nothing else and you cant pay a couple of hundred million for the only big AAA game of the year?

Your rationale alone should tell you that money hats aren't actually a thing. If it was all about cutting the biggest cheque, all marketing partnerships would be with MS. They not.

Third party publishers don't want a fat one-time pay out, they want to build successful products that payout for years to come. Co-marketing partnerships with market-leading platforms deliver that - a one-time cheque to limit your game to the smallest platform with the most limited global reach of the three won't do that.

 

[SlimySnake]

If that's what Sony did with Final Fantasy, it wouldn't be on PC.

Like i said, just like Sony did with ff7 and ff16.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It always takes two to tango.

A company might not want a game on gamepass day 1, a company might not want to do a marketing deal with you, a company might not want to be timed exclusive to your system.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

If this was an anti-trust case against Sony trying to buy ABK then they would. Scale of purchase is an issue here. Microsoft can still buy studios like Bluepoint or even Bungie.

Newsflash, Sony bought Bungie mate.

Scale is irrelevant when you're talking about comparing Apple vs MS content or infrastructure or financials. Same goes for Google.

 

[Antwix]

It's baffling to me: That forum is 99.9% leftist-leaning, except when it comes to MS, a mega-corp, buying out the video-games market. I honestly don't understand...Fanboyism trumps economic/social/societal ideologies, it seems.

reminds me of a meme i saw recently

 

[dotnotbot]

Newsflash, Sony bought Bungie mate.

Scale is irrelevant when you're talking about comparing Apple vs MS content or infrastructure or financials. Same goes for Google.

Duh, that's why I brought it as an example. Just saying no one is preventing Microsoft from doing what Sony is doing cause there's a narration that Microsoft is being blocked from being able to compete.

 

[quest]

Duh, that's why I brought it as an example. Just saying no one is preventing Microsoft from doing what Sony is doing cause there's a narration that Microsoft is being blocked from being able to compete.

Actually it is the cma reasoning means Microsoft can never buy another studio because of being a cloud monopoly in some unknown future. So Sony can buy studios and money hat away. Basically only Sony is allowed to compete because of this unknown future Microsoft might dominate a market like Sony does now in the high performance console market.

 

[SlimySnake]

Your rationale alone should tell you that money hats aren't actually a thing. If it was all about cutting the biggest cheque, all marketing partnerships would be with MS. They not.

Third party publishers don't want a fat one-time pay out, they want to build successful products that payout for years to come. Co-marketing partnerships with market-leading platforms deliver that - a one-time cheque to limit your game to the smallest platform with the most limited global reach of the three won't do that.

Explain ff7, ff7-2, deathloop, ghostwire, forspoken, and ff16 then.

Money is money. If ms outbids Sony there is no reason they can’t at least get cod on gamepass.

 

[dotnotbot]

Actually it is the cma reasoning means Microsoft can never buy another studio because of being a cloud monopoly in some unknown future.

Nope, this is not what they say.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

If you think those execs who were going to be billionaires thanks to this deal wont hold a grudge.. I am not sure what planet you are living on.

Activision makes an absolute fuckton of money from the ps versions of call of duty.
If you think they're doing anything at all to jeopardize that revenue stream because of the deal being blocked.....I'm not sure what planet YOU'RE living on.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Actually it is the cma reasoning means Microsoft can never buy another studio because of being a cloud monopoly in some unknown future. So Sony can buy studios and money hat away. Basically only Sony is allowed to compete because of this unknown future Microsoft might dominate a market like Sony does now in the high performance console market.

MS can buy studios, they just can’t buy something like COD which is why the CMA proposed divestment.

Maybe Xbox fans should obsess less about MS buying studios and more about them making great games. Maybe that will inspire Xbox management who knows.

 

[Viking Warrior]

Man that's weird. Lets try that again.

This deal will still go through

This is Kinda Funny believing that the deal will still go through. There reasoning is that they'll probably win the appeal.

There is no chance that Microsoft will win the appeal, the appeal will not get past the tribunal.

 

[TheGodfather07]

The same thing could be said for Sony that Sony also needs Activision. This should be a wake up call for Sony to start creating their own FPS and multiplayer games.

Sony just broke records and sold atleast 620k consoles in the US last month and your telling me they need a wake up call? I don't know what planet your on or what drug your using right now. Someone does need a wake up call and it's not sony. Sony are flying right now.

 

[Puscifer]

Who could have thought that CMA would create more drama and surprises than most TV series writers
Blocked over cloud SLC.

Azure is used for cloud gaming more than AWS, I don't know the science behind it but even with the market share of AWS even Sony and Nintendo don't use it which is fascinating.

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Microsoft stacking up on L's

Can't believe cloud gaming was the reason, finally it was useful for something XD

They have so many L's stacked up now the xbox offices must look like Phil's been playing real life tetris since 2013.

 

[NickFire]

Sony just broke records and sold atleast 620k consoles in the US last month and your telling me they need a wake up call? I don't know what planet your on or what drug your using right now. Someone does need a wake up call and it's not sony. Sony are flying right now.

I agree with him but not because they are in trouble. They did come close to having a competitor control the biggest FPS. They should definitely look into creating a genuine COD competitor to minimize harm if something like this happens again IMO. Plus I want to see what they could make from the ground up in the genre.

 

[TheGodfather07]

It always takes two to tango.

A company might not want a game on gamepass day 1, a company might not want to do a marketing deal with you, a company might not want to be timed exclusive to your system.

Exactly. It's obvious that they dont want to market with xbox because of their small marketshare. Its not beneficial to their ip. Its not just about money. If it was Microsoft would be wiping the floor with sony and have marketing for every game out there. Reality is most publishers and studios aint interested in partnering with Microsoft.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I agree with him but not because they are in trouble. They did come close to having a competitor control the biggest FPS. They should definitely look into creating a genuine COD competitor to minimize harm if something like this happens again IMO. Plus I want to see what they could make from the ground up in the genre.

I mean it’s clear that they’re making investments towards that end with the purchase of Firewalk and the investments into Deviation Games. I would expect 2-3 FPS from Sony in the next 3-4 years. That’s not including anything from Bungie.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Actually it is the cma reasoning means Microsoft can never buy another studio because of being a cloud monopoly in some unknown future. So Sony can buy studios and money hat away. Basically only Sony is allowed to compete because of this unknown future Microsoft might dominate a market like Sony does now in the high performance console market.

Microsoft has specific reach in cloud technology as well as computing. That’s the only reason they’re able to afford a company like Activision in the first place.

Ignoring that reality reflects a metric ton of bias.

Microsoft can purchase studios as we saw them do with Bethesda and Mojang, but yeah, the CMA said they can’t buy the largest publisher in gaming with the inherent interest to foreclose on competitors both current and future and a nascent industry which is cloud gaming.

Cloud gaming has the potential to be bigger than console and pc gaming combined and Microsoft has levers already in this area that prohibit them using their cash to lockdown said future market.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I'm celebrating this personally. MS has proven to be inept and I don't want them buying up publishers left and right? This isn't healthy for the industry.

 

[Rac3r]

The same thing could be said for Sony that Sony also needs Activision. This should be a wake up call for Sony to start creating their own FPS and multiplayer games.

They were already on that before MS announced the ABK acquisition. Publishing partnerships with Haven, Firewalk and Deviation Games; plus negotiations with Bungie and internal development/prioritization of live service games, including Factions (since 2020). SIE has positioned themselves nicely and are covering all bases (without spending much). Gotta give Jimbo credit.

 

[FrankWza]

I agree with him but not because they are in trouble. They did come close to having a competitor control the biggest FPS. They should definitely look into creating a genuine COD competitor to minimize harm if something like this happens again IMO. Plus I want to see what they could make from the ground up in the genre.

SOCOM is coming. If I say it enough it will happen

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Is that adam sessler?

 

[Crayon]

It's baffling to me: That forum is 99.9% leftist-leaning, except when it comes to MS, a mega-corp, buying out the video-games market. I honestly don't understand...Fanboyism trumps economic/social/societal ideologies, it seems.

I'm not surprised. Much of the reason I left was because threads gradually looked more and more like social media threads, with so many posts just trying to signal boost a talking point that the nuggets of actual thought were getting hard to find. MS does heavy social marketing and anything they diseminate spreads on era super fast because of how similar the dynamic is to social media. I think MS has more woke points, too.

 

[Bragr]

Microsoft is by buying Activision/Blizzard. However UK doesn’t like competition especially since Sony is a big employer in UK.

Make no mistake this isn’t about cloud. This is about protecting Sony. Literally no major cloud provider is upset at MS acquisition.

Yeah, I am suprised at how many in here is actually thinking anyone is afraid of a cloud monopoly.

Xbox is trying to build a service where we don't have to spend fortunes on games, and people are trying to defend Sony and the broken AAA model.

 

[Topher]

The silly part is Sony have had multiple cloud investments in hundreds of millions for a decade and done very little with it, was that not enough time to establish themselves? Google and Amazon pushed a little into cloud gaming and have warchests to open at any time. Apple confirmed $400Billion over 4 years to invest in datacentres and manufacturing that can easily support mobile/device cloud gaming from an existing duopoly market segment and a walled garden app store. Netflix are investing heavily into gaming/mobile/cloud.

Do the regulators punish Sony for success in the "high performance console" space? Do they punish Google/Apple for mobile duopoly? Pretty arrogant of CMA to think they have a crystal ball capable of determining an emerging market for decades to come. How'd the browser wars go? How'd the OS wars go? How'd music streaming go? How'd movie streaming go? It's quite a weird choice that cloud gaming is the point of contention for this ruling. It doesn't add up, appeals will be interesting.

Every emerging market has one or few clear market leaders, things settle, competitors come and go. When things like Fortnite or Apex legends or PUBG mobile exist in the realms of billions of dollars of turnover you have to wonder what CMA believes stifles competition or innovation exactly? Isn't MS and what they've done with Game Pass + xCloud + cross play + ecosystem that very innovation the regulators wish for? And can make a push to break the mobile space duopoly all the same?

Some history here -
Azure launched in 2010.
Gaikai launched in 2010.
Sony purchase Gaikai in 2012.

Was this not ample time for Sony to leverage their gaming IPs and infrastructure? Is Google not enough of a cloud competitor? Is Amazon? Is Apple?

I'm honestly looking for reasoned answers that validate the CMA ruling, I come up pretty short logic wise; even looking at content or infrastructure.

EDIT: A huge gap in the ruling vision of the CMA is Apple. The chip manufacturing, the mobile content, media content, walled garden, datacentres, OS etc. At any time Apple could enter cloud gaming and have all the pieces with the only exception being a hardware console, of which this ruling doesn't care about. One has to ask how exactly Apple isn't a viable competitor to a so called CMA MS monopoly at content, partner, IPs, infrastructure, hardware, marketing, warchest etc? Again it doesn't add up even when looking through the lens of CMA. CMA asleep on Apple twice in a row?

They made it clear this isn't about Sony.

 

[bender]

Explain ff7, ff7-2, deathloop, ghostwire, forspoken, and ff16 then.

Money is money. If ms outbids Sony there is no reason they can’t at least get cod on gamepass.

Money isn't money. Currently, a hundred dollars from Microsoft is less valuable to a developer/publisher than a hundred dollars from Sony, especially for a company like Square. They'll look at the userbase, they'll look at historical performance of their own titles on a platform and they'll look at facets offered in the deal (co-marketing, co-development, etc.). And if they don't want to be on Game Pass Day 1, they also have to consider that they are competing with that service and how it will impact their sales.

Microsoft can certainly outspend Sony but to what end? Eventually you want to turn a profit and they learned lessons from the money hats they tossed out for the likes of GTA:IV DLC or Tomb Raider exclusivity. They shifted focus to exclusivity deals via Game Pass, Game Pass deals for titles that typically underperform on Xbox and acquisitions. Those are better investments in the long run.

 

[Zok310]

And i just got my 10 year on gaf achievement

What a day

 

[gow3isben]

MS next move: Pay Activision 60 billion to keep CoD exclusive to Gamepass the next 10 years